Two Faced

[Clivey]

OK: Imagine you have a family of four and associated luggage etc. that you want to be able to ferry in comfort with 40+ mpg economy, BUT you also want a car that'll be entertaining on the right road. Will it be:

Alfa-Romeo 159 1.9JDTM Turismo 4-door
Technical Specifications: http://www.alfaromeo.co.uk/cgi-bin/pbrand.dll/ALFAROMEO_UK/models/cartech.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0880264425.1185050019 @@@@&BV_EngineID=cccfaddlhmejkjfcefecejgdfiidgnk.0&modelKey=140&mvsKey=831403640000

Notable Features: Cruise Control, Climate Control, Single CD-Player with radio controls on steering wheel, "Alfatex" upholstery, Chilled armrest compartment, Turbo pressure gauge, 16" alloy wheels, Trip Computer, 6-speed manual gearbox, Saloon bodystyle

Honda Accord 2.2 i-CDTi Sport 4-door
Technical Specifications: http://www.honda.co.uk/car

Notable Features:

Vauxhall Vectra 1.9 CDTi (150BHP) Elite 5-door
Technical Specifications: http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vx/configurator/continue.do?method=getTechnicalSpecs

Notable Features: Leather upholstery with heated front seats, Satellite Navigation with dashboard mounted CD-changer, Climate Control, 17" alloy wheels, Trip Computer, 60/40 Split rear seats with "load through" facility, 6-speed manual gearbox, Hatchback bodystyle

Volkswagen Passat 2.0TDi SE 4-door
Technical Specifications: http://www.vw.co.uk/new_cars/passat_saloon/engines?rangeID=49&bodyStyle=Saloon&engine_id=1205

Notable Features: Electrically adjustable driver's seat, Velour upholstery with "load through" facility, Single CD-Player with MP3 compatability, Rear air vents, Semi-automatic Air Conditioning, 16" alloy wheels, Trip Computer, Automatic Handbrake, 6-speed manual gearbox, Saloon bodystyle

[IBrake4Rainbows]

......Entertaining? out of that lot?

Gotta be the Alfa. if only for the sheer beauty of the thing.

[jediali]

The Alfa ranks way ahead in driver appeal both on the road and as a soulful car, but its pricey. The honda is the best package in my opinion as a family car..but wheres the new mondeo! It really is a fantastic car apparetly.

Why these four?, the way i see it:

- family D segment = mondeo, passat, vectra, primera,..
- compact executive = 3 series, C calss, X-type, IS, 159...

[Clivey]

The Alfa ranks way ahead in driver appeal both on the road and as a soulful car, but its pricey. The honda is the best package in my opinion as a family car..but wheres the new mondeo! It really is a fantastic car apparetly.

Why these four?, the way i see it:

- family D segment = mondeo, passat, vectra, primera,..
- compact executive = 3 series, C calss, X-type, IS, 159...

Good question, and one I would have asked. The answer comes in this form:

I'm looking to buy used in about 6 months' time. At the current rates of depreciation, these four cars will all cost less than £13k with less than 20k miles on the clock.

The new Mondeo's only just been launched, so it hasn't had the chance to depreciate yet, and I don't like the previous generation version at all (I travel in one as a taxi most days, so I know what it's like)

[jediali]

Good question, and one I would have asked. The answer comes in this form:

I'm looking to buy used in about 6 months' time. At the current rates of depreciation, these four cars will all cost less than £13k with less than 20k miles on the clock.

The new Mondeo's only just been launched, so it hasn't had the chance to depreciate yet, and I don't like the previous generation version at all (I travel in one as a taxi most days, so I know what it's like)

i see, good point, i would say the accord still. But what about..


family of four

Is there anything you need to get of your chest or is this wishful thinking :D

EDIT: I am in a similar situation myself. Hoping to get my first career job soon and hence a better car. But i'm not thinking 4 door, more driver orientated coupe/roadster options insurance allowing. I will probably ask opinions on my options in due time.

[Clivey]

Is there anything you need to get of your chest or is this wishful thinking :D

Lol. OK, basically with my Dad being a driving instructor, he has a Mini One D for his instruction car, Mum has another that's also a stand-in for Dad's incase anything goes wrong. This leaves me with the "biggest" car in the family - currently a Vauxhall Corsa 3-door...that's a Corsa for family of four...See the problem? :D

[cmcpokey]

EDIT: I am in a similar situation myself. Hoping to get my first career job soon and hence a better car. But i'm not thinking 4 door, more driver orientated coupe/roadster options insurance allowing. I will probably ask opinions on my options in due time.

i would recommend a mini for that.. that was my position, and it has sufficed beautifully.

to the question at hand, it would be the alfa hands down. so so pretty.

[Cotterik]

considering the fact that having 3 more people in the car pretty much kills any of the performance the cars originally had :p

I'd have to go with the alfa. The other 3 cars would fit well in a dull urban driveway. But the Alfa puts a real smile on anyones face. Its beauty is worth the money if anything.

[Clivey]

considering the fact that having 3 more people in the car pretty much kills any of the performance the cars originally had :p

I'd have to go with the alfa. The other 3 cars would fit well in a dull urban driveway. But the Alfa puts a real smile on anyones face. Its beauty is worth the money if anything.

Luckily I won't have to carry the rest of the family all the time, then ;) ...believe it or not, it's the Vectra that's actually the fastest car here in a straight line!

[jediali]

Your the only car enthusiast i know that favours the vectra. no offence intended but the 2 key reasons its bought is keen pricing and fleet deals...not driving fun. If i had to get a vectra but didn't want the image asscociated with it i'd get a 9-3.

[Clivey]

Your the only car enthusiast i know that favours the vectra. no offence intended but the 2 key reasons its bought is keen pricing and fleet deals...not driving fun. If i had to get a vectra but didn't want the image asscociated with it i'd get a 9-3.

If I "favour" the Vectra, why have I made this thread and poll? Notice also that I haven't voted. I think it's a good car, that's all - just like the other "contenders" here...

...if I wanted a Vectra and didn't want the image associated with it, I'd get a 159 ;) . Same chassis and engine.

[my porsche]

Well I think they are all going to be awfully boring to drive, so I'll go on looks, which in this case goes to the Honda with big grey wheels. :D

[Quiggs]

2.0T and 3.6L Passats are pretty entertaining to drive, considering their size. Don't know about the TDIs though, since we don't get them.

And the Alfa is fugly. I said it. What now?

[Vindesh17]

Although the Alfa is tempting I'd go with the Honda.

[digitalcraft]

Mazda 6

[Waugh-terfall]

Clive, Vauxhall. I think you'd appreciate it more in the long run, what with the Climate Control, Sat Nav, Leather seats etc. I think that Luton offers more for your money.

Second choice would be the Honda, relativly sporty, looks good, well built and very reliable, I think Honda offer a similarly enticing offer to Vauxhall (hmm, never thought I'd use 'enticing' & 'V'hall' in the same sentence...)
The only thing I dislike about Honda is their website, it's soo AAARRRGGGGHH!:mad:

[Clivey]

hmm, never thought I'd use 'enticing' & 'V'hall' in the same sentence...

Ahem, you're the one who wanted to buy my Corsa...:p

[kingofthering]

VW Passat. ftw :cool:

[Waugh-terfall]

I still do, but I doubt it'll happen :( But you got me:p

[jcp123]

First, I'd only get them in wagon form - sedans just don't please me at all.

Besides that, I'd look at the Vauxhall/Opel or the Passat, leaning towards the latter. I don't really like the Alfa's new look, but I wouldn't mind the better instrumentation...I've always liked Opels, more so the models I was riding in in the mid-late 90's than the current ones, but I like the newer ones nonetheless.

[Spastik_Roach]

Well I think they are all going to be awfully boring to drive, so I'll go on looks, which in this case goes to the Honda with big grey wheels. :D

Go drive your truck, that more exciting? :)

[orshow]

i would recommend a ford mondeo wagon 2.5-litre turbocharged Duratec petrol version.

[VtecMini]

Accord.

I can't really pass judgment on the Alfa, but having spent time with the other two, the Passat is universally boring and the Vectra is just a really, really bad car.

The Honda, on the other hand, is probably sporting the best engine out of the quartet, will have the best residuals (or thereabouts the same as the VW), is a more satisfying drive (probably not more so than the Alfa, mind) and has the naturally desirable Honda build quality and reliability.

So either the Accord or the Alfa. The one thing you can guarantee with the Alfa is that it will cost you more year on year.

[Waugh-terfall]

Adding to VtecMini's post, the build quality in the new Passat is very substandard, very poor. Unlike the rest of the VW model range, which are built extremely well. What I'd like to know Clive is why you aren't considering the new Golf. The interior space in them is brilliant, so much better than even an Audi A4 Avant, I can fit VERY comfortably in the rear so I'm sure the rest of your family would have no problem. Also, on that note, the new Skoda Octavia. For exactly the same reasons as the Golf (only experienced the Estate) albeit slightly less desirable badge.

[VtecMini]

Adding to VtecMini's post, the build quality in the new Passat is very substandard, very poor. Unlike the rest of the VW model range, which are built extremely well. What I'd like to know Clive is why you aren't considering the new Golf. The interior space in them is brilliant, so much better than even an Audi A4 Avant, I can fit VERY comfortably in the rear so I'm sure the rest of your family would have no problem. Also, on that note, the new Skoda Octavia. For exactly the same reasons as the Golf (only experienced the Estate) albeit slightly less desirable badge.I'd disagree on the first point. Having sat in both an A4 and Passat, I'd say that the difference between the two is negligible. In fact I'd say the seats in the Passat were nicer than the A4, one of the reasonable few and far between high points of the VW.

[Waugh-terfall]

I'd disagree on the first point. Having sat in both an A4 and Passat, I'd say that the difference between the two is negligible. In fact I'd say the seats in the Passat were nicer than the A4, one of the reasonable few and far between high points of the VW.

Really? I've been in numerous A4's SE's, S-Lines, Saloons & Avants and the new Passat Wagon 2.0TDI Sport & 3.2 SEL, the Audi's were really nice but way to small, and both Passats (2.0TDI Showroom - 3.2 on the road) the glovebox refused to cloe properly and one side hung down, the interior of the doors are aweful, the lights in the vanity mirrors didn't work and in the 3.2 the drivers kept falling off and the 2.0TDI's passenger kept swinging down, both brand new (then 55), the 2.0TDI with less than 20mi on the clock and we took the 3.2 to just over 1,600mi I think, they felt quite cheap too

[Ferrer]

If I "favour" the Vectra, why have I made this thread and poll? Notice also that I haven't voted. I think it's a good car, that's all - just like the other "contenders" here...

...if I wanted a Vectra and didn't want the image associated with it, I'd get a 159 ;) . Same chassis and engine.
Yes on the same engine, no on the same chasis. 159 uses the Premium platform and Vectra the Epsilon.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

My head says Accord.

My heart says 159.

My heart's always more wrong than my head. Therefore I'd have to buy the Accord... :o

I'd take the Accord for the practicality, and the fact that it looks bloody awesome with the grey 17" wheels. Why they bothered with the puny 16"/15" ones makes you wonder- they look like toy wheels.

Alternatively, you could check out the recently updated Accord, with a new grille and the possibility of those oh-so-cool 18" wheels... :D

[Ferrer]

My head says Accord.

My heart says 159.

My heart's always more wrong than my head. Therefore I'd have to buy the Accord... :o

I'd take the Accord for the practicality, and the fact that it looks bloody awesome with the grey 17" wheels. Why they bothered with the puny 16"/15" ones makes you wonder- they look like toy wheels.

Alternatively, you could check out the recently updated Accord, with a new grille and the possibility of those oh-so-cool 18" wheels... :D
And then you want to buy a 156 2.5 V6, very sensible Sam... :rolleyes: :D

The Vectra is the only one which is about to be replaced, so I'd avoid it. Out of the others objectively the Passat and Accord are better than the 159. But it's so hard to say no to an Alfa Romeo, isn't it?

[Waugh-terfall]

Unless it's a 147 GTA then no, not really:p :)

[jediali]

Yes on the same engine, no on the same chasis. 159 uses the Premium platform and Vectra the Epsilon.

1) good to hear from you after what seems a short break

2) thanks for backing me up on something i didn't know

[Ferrer]

1) good to hear from you after what seems a short break

2) thanks for backing me up on something i didn't know
Thanks for the welcome, I needed a break... :)

Basically the Premium platform was going to be used by GM (Saab) as well, as it was developped jointly in the period when Fiat and GM were allied. It was first going to be a longitudinal rear wheel drive platform, but Saab insisted that it had to be front wheel drive. Even so it's said that Premium is logitudinal engine capable.

But in the end GM (Saab) pulled out because it was getting to expensive to develop and produce and with the Fiat-GM split Alfa Romeo was left with pretty much what was a bespoke platfomr for them.

On the other hand the 9-3 has the Epsilon platform, which means is based on the Vectra, as does the Fiat Croma. All bear Fiat-developped diesels, but only the Croma has the 200bhp 5-cylinder, and the Saab has recently introduced a 180bhp twin turbo 4 cylinder, which in the Fiat Group will be premiered by the Lancia Delta, but with 190bhp.

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

And then you want to buy a 156 2.5 V6, very sensible Sam... :rolleyes: :D

The Vectra is the only one which is about to be replaced, so I'd avoid it. Out of the others objectively the Passat and Accord are better than the 159. But it's so hard to say no to an Alfa Romeo, isn't it?

That's it exactly. They have soul. :)

[JdmMugenITR]

the accord FTW..although the alfa seems quite impressive

[Clivey]

Out of the others objectively the Passat and Accord are better than the 159. But it's so hard to say no to an Alfa Romeo, isn't it?

Actually I think that the 159 has a nicer interior with better features (for what I require) than either the Accord or Passat. Food for thought.

Yeah, the Accord and the Passat can't "beat" the Alfa with their interior or looks, so they're going to have to win in other ways...:D

[Ingolstadt]

159 1.9JTD?

156 2.5 V6 Sportswagon is cheaper.

[Clivey]

159 1.9JTD?

156 2.5 V6 Sportswagon is cheaper.

Not to run it's not. I can't afford to keep a car that only does ~25mpg.

[Ingolstadt]

Alfa then.

[Clivey]

Alfa then.

Yeah, TBH I was probably going to go for the 159 anyway - it's just sexy, especially for a four-door saloon, but unfortunately my circumstances have changed since I started this thread. Ah well...news of what I'm doing next is on the way...;)

[LotusLocost]

If you are to go for a 159 SW, take the TI option.
the interior is so sexy it is worth every dime you spend extra.

[Clivey]

If you are to go for a 159 SW, take the TI option.
the interior is so sexy it is worth every dime you spend extra.

I wholeheartedly agree. Unfortunately though I couldn't have gone for the Ti as I could only afford the running costs of the 1.9-diesel. None of the specifications are at all shabby though and I would have been very happy with any trim level.