PDA

View Full Version : Fourth Round - Imola



Ferrari Tifosi
04-23-2004, 04:11 PM
Well at the end of today's practice sessions, Button and Sato sit on top with the fastest times. Michael isn't too far behind them and Raikkonen came in fourth. We'll just have to see how the rest of the weekend works out.

bige321786
04-23-2004, 05:12 PM
No reason to believe Michael won't win again. Renault and BAR have looked up this year but with no REAL competition from McLaren or Ralf, this season, to me at least, looks like another cakewalk for Michael and the boys.

Cotterik
04-23-2004, 05:19 PM
I say its a BAR weekend. They are running at an amazing pace recently and more than deserve it. Button is now a championship contender and the Brits are back in!! Mclaren need to buck their ideas up and williams need a kick start. When they are all up and running im sure we're up for an awesome year! The main contenders for Scuderia this year are BMW Williams and BAR, iIdoubt renault or Mclaren can keep up the pace but they should make for some good races if the Mclaren engine survives. Move over ferrari... your time is over

Coventrysucks
04-23-2004, 05:45 PM
Go McLaren, you useless __________!!!!!!!!!!!

Insert expletive of choice. :D ;)

Hopefully they can get both cars to finish!!!!(I don't care where) ;)

I don't mind MS winning, after all he is the best driver, I just think that is too predictable, and therefore not really a competition as such.

I also hope that BAR can build on their good start to the season.

Ferrari Tifosi
04-23-2004, 05:48 PM
Go McLaren, you useless __________!!!!!!!!!!!

Insert expletive of choice. :D ;)

Hopefully they can get both cars to finish!!!!(I don't care where) ;)

I don't mind MS winning, after all he is the best driver, I just think that is too predictable, and therefore not really a competition as such.

I also hope that BAR can build on their good start to the season.

I would argue that MS isn't the best driver out there, but instead a great driver with a superior car.

Matra et Alpine
04-23-2004, 05:55 PM
Go McLaren, you useless __________!!!!!!!!!!!
Worryingly, McLaren have only been putting in 2/3rds of the laps of the leading teams.
Are we already seeing them 'saving' the engines ?

bige321786
04-23-2004, 06:56 PM
Move over ferrari... your time is over

I don't see where you're getting that notion. Ferrari has had 1-2 finishes in two of the first three races of the season. I do not see anybody pushing Ferrari around anytime soon. Sure, Button has improved greatly over the past year, but he had his first podium finish just a month or so ago. Let's get real, Ferrari will dominate this entire season, especially with Ralf Schumacher and both Kimi and Coulthard "struggling" (to put it nicely).

Coventrysucks
04-23-2004, 07:01 PM
I would argue that MS isn't the best driver out there, but instead a great driver with a superior car.

Ok then, like the beer, he is probably the best F1 driver in the world ;)

Ferrari Tifosi
04-23-2004, 07:05 PM
Ok then, like the beer, he is probably the best F1 driver in the world ;)

I wouldn't say hes the best F1 driver either. He was at one point, but I don't think he is now.

bige321786
04-23-2004, 08:20 PM
I wouldn't say hes the best F1 driver either. He was at one point, but I don't think he is now.

Who's better? And what criteria do we have to use other than 'Races Won'. And MS has just won three in a row.

DrGonzo
04-24-2004, 02:26 AM
He IS the best driver in the world, and he only gets better as he gets older. If it was all about the car and not the driver, then surely Rubens would be up there alongside him as far as wins are concerned. I admit he is having a great season so far this year though.
Besides, everyone knows that Williams (along with Ferrari) has the best cars in the field.
Oh, and I am not biased as I am not a Ferrari fan, but a great driver should be commended and appreciated. And MS is the greatest driver of his era, and among the greatest ever.

By the way, it seems after Saturday practice, Schumacher, Button and Alonso have the best times.

Matra et Alpine
04-24-2004, 04:42 AM
He IS the best Formula 1
driver in the world,.

Suka
04-24-2004, 06:21 AM
Oh finnaly the big chined one made a mistkake and lost pole, what a great qualifying it was! Mr "Over-rated" as they called him has really shone through.

henk4
04-24-2004, 06:46 AM
first blood to Button though! Was he light??

Suka
04-24-2004, 06:52 AM
I think he might have been, in the downhill section though he managed to get at least an extra 4 tenths over Rubens. Would that have helped, being lighter in the downhill bit?

motorsportnerd
04-24-2004, 07:40 AM
I would argue that MS isn't the best driver out there, but instead a great driver with a superior car.

Which driver do you rate as the best then?
Personally, I believe Schumacher to be heads and shoulders above every one else. My first reason for stating this is the quality of his team mate. Barrichello is as good or better than anyone else in the field bar Schumacher. I'd rate Barrichello as a very quick, smooth and polished driver who has the proven ability to deliver results. He would have been World Champion with Ferrari at least twice in the past four years if Schumacher wasn't his team mate.
The second reason is that while certain drivers may be quicker or are specialists at certain circuits, Schumacher is the only one who is constantly at the top regardless of circuit, car, weather conditions, etc. Put simply, there are other drivers that can match Schumacher at certain aspects of the art of driving a modern F1 car, but Schumacher is the only one that is a polished all round driver with no real weaknesses. Schumacher is quick, smooth, able to drive economically, able to work out the strategic situation of the race as it changes around him, capable of brilliant overtaking manoeuvres, is an excellent wet weather driver, rarely crashes and capable of driving around imperfections in his car. His main weakness is a slight susceptibility to pressure (something Hakkinen also used to suffer from). However, now that he's matched Fangio and has nothing else left to prove, he is driving purely for the love of it, therefore he's more relaxed and therefore more dangerous and less susceptible to pressure.
Also, I remember the days that Schumacher dragged absolute dogs of cars up to the front of the field where they had no business being (remember the 1996/97 Ferraris?)
Its really too soon for his critics to see it, but we will look back on the Schumacher era as something special. He's raced against guys who really were very good (Hakkinen, Hill, Villenueve) and made them look less capable than they really were. Without Schumacher's presence, Hakkinen, Hill, Villenueve would have all been regarded as standout drivers, and could have succeeded in any era of F1. It was their bad luck to have to face Schumacher. As to his personality and supposed arrogance? I suspect that much of that is simply the German accent. Schumacher has sounded very human and humble to me on many occasions (remember his heartfelt thoughts on the marshalls that were killed in the 2000 Italian GP and 2001 Australian GP - they weren't the thoughts or word of an arrogant man. They were the words of a thoughtfull and considerate man). And to reports that Schumacher got drunk and smashed a few chairs after winning the World Championship last year? Great, shows hes human, can enjoy himself and do stupid things when drunk.
If I sound like I like Schumacher - you're right. That's because I really do think we've been privileged to see someone who is one of the all time greats in action. I suspect I'll tell my grandchildren that I saw the great Michael Schumacher in action. History will judge his place.

Anyway, its all a little subjective. I'd love to hear your thoughts on which driver/s are better than Schumacher and why?

NAZCA C2
04-24-2004, 09:07 AM
WoW! Button on pole! BAR and Jaguar are improving every week and Mclaren stinks. This is Mclaren's worst 3 races of the season since 1981. They better get their stuff together. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Ferrari will probably win this weekend barring a first corner accident. I think Schumacher might pull off the win, he hasn't won in a while and he should be due for a win. Lol. Go Mclaren!!!

Matra et Alpine
04-24-2004, 09:23 AM
Damn, missed the qualifying !!
Reading the reports, sounds as if Button is doing a great job.
Schuimacher quoted as sayign even if he hadn't had the touble in the last sector he didn't think he woudl have bettered Jensons time.
Could be a great race.

McLaren needing another new V10 for Kimi :( sad

Anyone heard anything from Ron or Norbert ?
M-B board must be fuming !!!!

Foxbat
04-24-2004, 11:52 AM
I wouldn't say hes the best F1 driver either. He was at one point, but I don't think he is now.

Who would you give the nod then? Kimi is good (hard as it is to see that these days), but I wouldn't say that he's better then MS... yet.
JPM is fast, he's got guts and 'mad skillz' as they say, but over a season he is not consistent or focused enough. The rest of the field are either not mature enough to tell (Massa, Button*? who knows really) or not in the same league.

* Not that I think he's that good, but he did well compared to ex-WDC Villeneuve.

DasModell
04-24-2004, 12:00 PM
congrats Jenson ... and he coould be lighter then rubens or the williams cars . bt i think he is on par with Schu .. .. could be a great race .. tactics could decide it .. the unkown variables are the Williams cars .. Renault look to be outpaced :) ..
i'm very sorry for Fisico . and a little dissapointed by massa :( :(

Ferrari Tifosi
04-24-2004, 02:06 PM
I do believe that Kimi Raikkonen is the best F1 driver out there right now. I'm not taking any credit away from MS, he is a great driver. One thing I will admit that MS is better than any driver is his ability to communicate with engineers and make a team better (as he has done with Ferrari). Raikkonen is still young and still learning this. MS was the best at one point, I believe this to be in his Benneton and early Ferrari years. Also, I'm not saying it is just the car, as I said early a great driver plus a vastly superior car = a world champion. Raikkonen with a better and more reliable car, I believe could win the championship this year, but with the way the McLaren is peforming now that is not possible. But all in all, Michael Schumacher is a great and legendary F1 driver and nobody can discredit him of that.

Coventrysucks
04-24-2004, 02:59 PM
Anyone heard anything from Ron or Norbert ?
M-B board must be fuming !!!!

Martin Whitmarsh is taking over as head of both Mclaren and Mercedes
Hopefully he'll kick them all into shape :)

Coventrysucks
04-25-2004, 11:04 AM
Yes! Both Mclarens Finished!

8th and 12th!!!

Watch out Ferrari :D

DasModell
04-26-2004, 07:16 AM
again .. sorry for Fisico . just missed the 8th place :(

NAZCA C2
04-26-2004, 09:14 AM
Just like I said Schumacher won. Without a first corner accident or rain I think MS will win every race this season. F1 needs to reduce the costs to make every team competitive. CART does'nt cost nearly as much as F1 and the champ cars are almost as fast and 10 more exciting to watch. F1 needs to be like CART was several years ago where almost every CART driver and team was competitive. I don't even think I saw a pass for position on the track at Imola, how lame.

byronleehk
04-26-2004, 09:27 AM
I think BAR did a great job and I hope they can keep it up! Don't get me wrong, I'm a Ferrari fan but it would be more fun to watch if some other teams can give Ferrari something to 'worry about'.

Homem de Gelo
04-26-2004, 12:17 PM
Schumacher aside, this has been a close contested season so far.

Cotterik
04-26-2004, 12:36 PM
Jenson was running on slighty less fuel than the ferrari's in qualifying, but he still put in an amazing lap, over 2 tenths of a second faster than Schumacher. As soon as Button had given the fastest lap Michael was clearly under pressure and nearly lost control of the car in the middle of the lap, it just shows that Schumacher gets away with what he does because most of the time he knows he can, but when he is put under pressure he loses it. Like last season, Williams had it made with their FW25 having a faster engine, ferrari were in their worst shape for years and it was all down to Montoya and Ralf putting the Ferrari's under pressure and showing them they cant get away with whatever they want. I think When montoya moves to Mclaren it will be more interesting, because now montoya is acting as though he has already moved and is slagging off the team saying the car is too slow and threatening Ralf after races. Mark Webber or David Coulthard are popular choices to replace him but i doubt Kimi Raikkonen will put up with Mclarens failing pace much longer so he might also be up for grabs.
This season so far is definitely missing the threat of Mclaren and the 'Ferrari vs Mclaren' battle we've seen over the years. Hopefully it wont take too long for the teams to warm up; last year it took Williams until the last half of the year to start winning races so the same might be for Mclaren this year, we'll have to wait and see...

Foxbat
04-26-2004, 01:58 PM
Jenson was running on slighty less fuel than the ferrari's in qualifying, but he still put in an amazing lap, over 2 tenths of a second faster than Schumacher. As soon as Button had given the fastest lap Michael was clearly under pressure and nearly lost control of the car in the middle of the lap, it just shows that Schumacher gets away with what he does because most of the time he knows he can, but when he is put under pressure he loses it.

Right, he 'cracked under pressure' of Button challenging him for pole. That begs the question why he doesn't throw it off the road every single race, because even at Imola the "pressure" from those challenging him for the win was higher then that caused by a possible BAR pole :p
The alternative explanation could of course be that he went over the edge ever so slightly because he was still pushing 100% in spite of a heavier car. But that would show attitude and balls, which is not something many people like to associate with MS :)

Foxbat
04-26-2004, 02:14 PM
Just like I said Schumacher won. Without a first corner accident or rain I think MS will win every race this season. F1 needs to reduce the costs to make every team competitive. CART does'nt cost nearly as much as F1 and the champ cars are almost as fast and 10 more exciting to watch. F1 needs to be like CART was several years ago where almost every CART driver and team was competitive. I don't even think I saw a pass for position on the track at Imola, how lame.

Imola has always been boring, ever since they 'sanitized' it a decade ago. If you ran champ cars at Imola it would be boring as well (not to mention agonisingly slow).
As for Cart being almost as fast as F1, the difference is about 6 seconds a lap in Montreal.

NAZCA C2
04-26-2004, 06:01 PM
Imola has always been boring, ever since they 'sanitized' it a decade ago. If you ran champ cars at Imola it would be boring as well (not to mention agonisingly slow).
As for Cart being almost as fast as F1, the difference is about 6 seconds a lap in Montreal.

Moto GP bikes are the fastest motorcycles on earth and they are 30 seconds a lap slower than an F1 car at most circuits, would you say that Moto GP bikes are slow? If you see CART cars up close at speed you will not say that they are slow.

Ferrari Tifosi
04-26-2004, 08:23 PM
Champ Cars are very quick and fast race cars. However, they are quite slow compared to F1 cars. As it was mention early Champ Cars were 6 seconds slower than the F1 cars, which makes roughly a 6 minute difference over the course of a Grand Prix.

NAZCA C2
04-27-2004, 03:13 PM
Champ Cars are very quick and fast race cars. However, they are quite slow compared to F1 cars. As it was mention early Champ Cars were 6 seconds slower than the F1 cars, which makes roughly a 6 minute difference over the course of a Grand Prix.

6 seconds a lap is a big difference but with the speed of modern F1 cars anything that can stay within 6 seconds of them is very quick. 1500lbs and 900 turbocharged horsepower makes for a very fast machine.