The Kooper car, prt. 2

[Kooper]

So I restarted from scratch, this time more to scale.

First created what I thought the size would be of the engine/drivetrain, made a pixelated dummy (looks kind of weird) and pretty much fitted everything else around it. This is still just messing around, but would love some input nonetheless.

Wheelbase is still at 2700mm exactly, wheels at 18", everything else hasn't been measured yet (that's gonna have to wait to part 3 :D ).

And here she is:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/KooperUCP/NewRacer-evoII.jpg


Poll attached, just want to know if you think it looks better than my previous jobby (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/multimedia/33989-kooper-supercar-racecar-prototype.html).

...Oh, don't pay attention to the little number at the bottom, just for my own reference when converting mm to pixels.

[Sledgehammer]

I still think the roof should slope back more gradually.

[Ferrer]

For some reason it still looks quite massive, altough not as big as the first one.

[henk4]

for better proportions....see this..

[jaromull]

Still I think the engine will have not enough space inside...

[henk4]

Still I think the engine will have not enough space inside...

a flat six???

[Kooper]

Thanks for the feedback so far guys. Especially thanks for the pic Henk, will come in most useful for prt. 3! :)

You know what size the wheels on the Peugeot are? I should be able to get the proportions of the rest of the car once I got that, think it's 18" probably?


Here's a pic of the engine/ gearbox and dummy around which the rest of the car was drawn (warning, might look cartoony):

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/KooperUCP/NewRacer-evoIIenginendummy.jpg

[henk4]

You know what size the wheels on the Peugeot are? I should be able to get the proportions of the rest of the car once I got that, think it's 18" probably?


18" indeed

[Kooper]

18" indeed

Thanks man.

[NSXType-R]

This looks better than the last attempt, but I think the cockpit is sitting too high. If you lowered it a bit more it would look better, proportion wise. I don't know what you're designing the car for, but maybe you could stretch out the car a bit more if you don't want to make the cockpit lower for the proportions and stuff.

[digitalcraft]

Personally, I like the bubble dome, it makes it look like the car is very small and the driver space is being pushed in as much as possible. Small is good for this type of car. Like, you'd probably see the guy's kneecaps above the dash line :P

[magracer]

IMHO it would indeed have to be a flat engine to fit in the space provided. Also the rear "tire bulk" seems too roundy for my taste; maybe it's becasue the side is so thin that it makes it stand out. Being the side so thin, radiators would be small, but if you plan to run a flat six it's probably enough... ;)

[ruim20]

Nice, just increase the wheel size a bit, and change the side air intake, make it angular like the rest of the car, other than that, it's very good looking, nice work :) i like it.

[Kitdy]

Very interesting design - I think the overall design is a conglomeration of a series of different cars

Cabin: Aerodynamic old school cars (can't think of a specific example)

Rear Headlights: Porsche 911 GT1

Nose: Spyker C12 Zagato

Overall: Pagani Zonda, C12 Zagato, Maserati MC12 (only in dimensions)

Personal preference: I preferred the old side window (I immensely dislike the new one I must say) and old rear more Porsche 911 GT1-like rear lights. Though I am not particularly a fan of the overall design (it just ain't up my alley), I find the overall look of the car very interesting, and I think that you can't ask for much more than to be the proud creator of a car with an interesting design.

Here are some completely irrelevant (in that they are my personal taste and should not influence your design) inputs:

Likes - The front view - very dynamic, great headlights (something I put a premium on)

Dislikes - Sloping cabin, side window, roof scoop, rear lights, rear-end (I much prefer the old rear - I find the slope to be much more gentle and aesthetically pleasing)

You've got myself and others to comment to much about this car so you can see that people have interest in the design, and interest is usually a good thing to have - so you're definitely on the right track.

Finally what engine are you going to go for? Keep up the good work!

[Cyco]

How tall is the modelled driver?

At the hight his bum is off the outside of the floor the seat must be fixed position. No chance of adjustment being built into that space.

[Coventrysucks]

It looks as if some of your dimensions are off.

I scaled this profile of a Renault Sport Spyder to your wheelbase of 2700mm (the Spyder's wheelbase is 2343mm).

Either the wheelbase is 2700 and the wheels and driver are too small, or the wheelbase is bigger than 2700mm.

:o

[Kooper]

Wow! So many replies! :D

Thanks for all the feedback so far, I'll attempt to answer everyone in one go, but before I do, let's first establish if I'm actually converting from pixels to mm correctly (haven't checked myself whether it's close yet):

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/KooperUCP/Graphic2.jpg

H is for height, WB for wheelbase.

EDIT: Mmm, can't seem to find any detail on this... :confused:


OK, now for the replies:


This looks better than the last attempt, but I think the cockpit is sitting too high. If you lowered it a bit more it would look better, proportion wise. I don't know what you're designing the car for, but maybe you could stretch out the car a bit more if you don't want to make the cockpit lower for the proportions and stuff.

I'm pretty much just doing this for fun at this stage. It's supposed to be a car you can race with all day long on a track, but you should be able to drive the car to the track and back home again on public roads.



Personally, I like the bubble dome, it makes it look like the car is very small and the driver space is being pushed in as much as possible. Small is good for this type of car. Like, you'd probably see the guy's kneecaps above the dash line :P

Hehe, thanks man. I tried to make the rear roofline of the car resemble F1 cars, but afterwards looking at some pics, it is definitely sloping down at too much of an angle.



IMHO it would indeed have to be a flat engine to fit in the space provided. Also the rear "tire bulk" seems too roundy for my taste; maybe it's becasue the side is so thin that it makes it stand out. Being the side so thin, radiators would be small, but if you plan to run a flat six it's probably enough... ;)

Point taken. I wanted to sides of the car to gently slope downwards towards the rear, think I might have overdone it a bit :o



Nice, just increase the wheel size a bit, and change the side air intake, make it angular like the rest of the car, other than that, it's very good looking, nice work :) i like it.

Thanks, glad you like it. That round air-intake does seem a tad out of place, must admit. At the time I think I got somewhat lazy, one of the last items I added :o

[Kooper]

Continued... (sorry for bumping)



Very interesting design - I think the overall design is a conglomeration of a series of different cars

Cabin: Aerodynamic old school cars (can't think of a specific example)

Rear Headlights: Porsche 911 GT1

Nose: Spyker C12 Zagato

Overall: Pagani Zonda, C12 Zagato, Maserati MC12 (only in dimensions)

Personal preference: I preferred the old side window (I immensely dislike the new one I must say) and old rear more Porsche 911 GT1-like rear lights. Though I am not particularly a fan of the overall design (it just ain't up my alley), I find the overall look of the car very interesting, and I think that you can't ask for much more than to be the proud creator of a car with an interesting design.

Here are some completely irrelevant (in that they are my personal taste and should not influence your design) inputs:

Likes - The front view - very dynamic, great headlights (something I put a premium on)

Dislikes - Sloping cabin, side window, roof scoop, rear lights, rear-end (I much prefer the old rear - I find the slope to be much more gentle and aesthetically pleasing)

You've got myself and others to comment to much about this car so you can see that people have interest in the design, and interest is usually a good thing to have - so you're definitely on the right track.

Finally what engine are you going to go for? Keep up the good work!

Excellent input man! I can't tell you how much I enjoy reading everyone's different reactions to my work, so much so that I'm probably going to be doing this for a while still.

You're right too, it is as always a collection of a lot of different cars. And I agree with you on the side windows, it's just too close to an Enzo to my liking. :)

Engine-wise, and this is fantasy-material deluxe, I was day-dreaming of a 3.6 to 4 liter 120 degree V8. Sequentially bi-turboed per bank (if that makes any sense :D ), in much the same way as BMW does with their x23d and x35i engines. The tranny would be a 6 spd / 7 spd, PDK of course. I'm not even sure if that's technically possible, but this is only a dream car after all.

Thanks again for the feedback Kitdy, really enjoyed that :)



How tall is the modelled driver?

At the hight his bum is off the outside of the floor the seat must be fixed position. No chance of adjustment being built into that space.

Excellent point. I stretched out the dummy today only to find, by my calculations, that he's a 1.6m pixie (!!!). That left me quite miffed.
But, not to worry, I created a new dummy today and I'll introduce him soon. I think / hope he'll be more anatomically accurate, plus he's more-or-less 1.85m tall. Heck, I even gave him a name! (Marvin) :D

Yep, seats are fixed.



It looks as if some of your dimensions are off.

I scaled this profile of a Renault Sport Spyder to your wheelbase of 2700mm (the Spyder's wheelbase is 2343mm).

Either the wheelbase is 2700 and the wheels and driver are too small, or the wheelbase is bigger than 2700mm. :o

I think you're right. The wheels themselves without tyres and wheelbase I think are the only items that I scaled, the rest were all just guess-work. Even the wheels themselves might be out as I first had to convert them from inches to mm (I used 1:26), then from there to pixels.

Thanks for the Renault comparo, I'm saving those pics for future reference as we speak. ;)


I think I'm not going to make any further tweaking on this particular car, but rather get straight to work on prt. 3. With the help of Marvin, of course...


Thanks again for the input guys! :)

[henk4]

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r36/KooperUCP/Graphic2.jpg

H is for height, WB for wheelbase.

EDIT: Mmm, can't seem to find any detail on this... :confused:



Try www.ultimatecarpage.com, they sometimes provide some useful information

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/3064/Peugeot-908-HDi-FAP.html

[Kooper]

Try www.ultimatecarpage.com, they sometimes provide some useful information

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/3064/Peugeot-908-HDi-FAP.html


I don't know where you came across that site Henk, but whoever introduced you to it, buy that person a crate of beer. And none of that distilled urine they call Millers neither! :p :)

Jokes aside, that's actually the first place I looked. No info on height or wheelbase in sight, at least not as far as I can see...
And I dare not guess any other dimensions than that either.

[henk4]

I don't know where you came across that site Henk, but whoever introduced you to it, buy that person a crate of beer. And none of that distilled urine they call Millers neither! :p :)

Jokes aside, that's actually the first place I looked. No info on height or wheelbase in sight, at least not as far as I can see...
And I dare not guess any other dimensions than that either.

forgot that you are not a premium member....those privileged people get to see that the wheelbase is NA but length overall is 4.65 meters. I will ask the Peugeot people hext week at Silverstone what the wheelbase is....and the height

[Kooper]

forgot that you are not a premium member....those privileged people get to see that the wheelbase is NA but length overall is 4.65 meters. I will ask the Peugeot people hext week at Silverstone what the wheelbase is....and the height

Cheers Henk :)


I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that my estimations were at least somewhat accurate.

[henk4]

I asked the Peugeot engineers. The wheelbase is "secret" but less than 3 meters:)
The length of the car is 468 cm so if you take that earlier pic you might be able to derive the wheelbase by yourself.

[Kooper]

I asked the Peugeot engineers. The wheelbase is "secret" but less than 3 meters:)
The length of the car is 468 cm so if you take that earlier pic you might be able to derive the wheelbase by yourself.

Excellent :)

Thanks for getting back to me Henk. I was kind of suspecting Peugeot wouldn't divulge much, but those figures sound more or less in the ballpark.


Oh yeah, CoventrySucks, you were absolutely right about the tires, they were indeed several sizes too small. I made some new templates hopefully being a bit more accurate. :)