Nissan GT-R GT500 [Archive] - Ultimatecarpage.com forums

Duell

10-30-2007, 10:15 AM

NISSAN GT-R SHAKEDOWN IN SUZUKA

Suzuka (Oct. 30, 2007) – NISSAN GT-R race car for the GT500 class of Japan’s SUPER GT series underwent a shakedown at the renowned Suzuka Circuit from 29-30 October supervised by NISMO (Nissan Motorsports International Co., Ltd). The vehicle is scheduled to debut in the series next year. The 2-day test, conducted under sunny skies, went smoothly with NISMO’s regular drivers, Satoshi Motoyama, Michael Krumm and Tsugio Matsuda, behind the wheel. The test was designed to obtain important data for the race car’s further development.

Yoshitaka Iijima, NISMO team director for SUPER GT, said: “The test went well without any problems. We obtained positive feedback on the car’s potential from the drivers. We are aware of the NISSAN GT-R popularity and racing heritage. We will make our best effort to win the championship next year.”

digitalcraft

10-30-2007, 10:30 AM

That was fast :P

VtecMini

10-30-2007, 10:35 AM

I'm no marketing genius, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in releasing a pic of it being pushed back to the pits...

moparbee

10-30-2007, 10:49 AM

I'm no marketing genius, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in releasing a pic of it being pushed back to the pits...

lol...for sure

carreragt10

10-30-2007, 10:56 AM

NICE :eek:

fisetdavid26

10-30-2007, 11:34 AM

I'm no marketing genius, but I'm not sure I see the benefit in releasing a pic of it being pushed back to the pits...
Haha, true. But the car is not for sale so who cares ;)

bruxell

10-30-2007, 11:37 AM

So, are there any specs for it? Is this just last years GT500 Z with a different body?

NSXType-R

10-30-2007, 11:59 AM

Wow, this car is looking good, especially in carbon fiber livery.

Can't wait for it to be in a race.

blackcat77

10-30-2007, 12:46 PM

I was going to say that the carbon fiber is ugly but the car is nice.

Wouter Melissen

10-30-2007, 12:51 PM

So, are there any specs for it? Is this just last years GT500 Z with a different body?

Probably.

kigango123

10-30-2007, 01:28 PM

Dear God, i pray to you now that this will not be a v8 like the other Nismo super GT Z (http://benzs.blogspot.com/2007/10/nissan-brings-v8-power-to-super-gt.html).

If it is, may it crash and burn :eek:, coz that will be really lame!

P.S. i like the side exhaust :D

NSXType-R

10-30-2007, 02:54 PM

kigango123

10-30-2007, 03:17 PM

What's wrong with a V-8?:confused:

It is :mad: Not cool! :mad:,

plus it is insidiously heavy without any equivalent payoff in horsepower, Has poor mileage and endurance compared to VQ35, is not in production skyline and does not rely on forced induction!

Don't do it Nissan, it is lame! And it is very American like, which is also very lame! :mad:

Duell

10-30-2007, 03:33 PM

It is :mad: Not cool! :mad:,

plus it is insidiously heavy without any equivalent payoff in horsepower, Has poor mileage and endurance compared to VQ35, is not in production skyline and does not rely on forced induction!

Don't do it Nissan, it is lame! And it is very American like, which is also very lame! :mad:

Yes but, don't you think it's extremely expensive to build a completely new engine for a car which is almost the same a its Nissan 350Z GT500 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_350Z#JGTC.2FSuper_GT) predecessors. And also they have just upgraded the engine from a V6 to a V8. :rolleyes:

kingofthering

10-30-2007, 03:34 PM

It is :mad: Not cool! :mad:,

plus it is insidiously heavy without any equivalent payoff in horsepower, Has poor mileage and endurance compared to VQ35, is not in production skyline and does not rely on forced induction!

Don't do it Nissan, it is lame! And it is very American like, which is also very lame! :mad:

There are several problems with your semi-rant.

1. I don't think Nissan would spend several hundred million dollars on a worthless engine with no power gain and uses even more fuel.

2. Right... when have you been able to purchase an (full) race engine in a stock car :rolleyes:? Never happened since the '60s.

3. What's wrong with "being American"? I don't think that was Nissan's intentions. Like everyone else, they want results and it's allowed in the rules.

NSXType-R

10-30-2007, 03:43 PM

It is :mad: Not cool! :mad:,

plus it is insidiously heavy without any equivalent payoff in horsepower, Has poor mileage and endurance compared to VQ35, is not in production skyline and does not rely on forced induction!

Don't do it Nissan, it is lame! And it is very American like, which is also very lame! :mad:

So the engine (forced induction V-8) in the Ferrari F40 is a piece of crap?

Since when do actual race cars have anything to do with the road car?

If you knew anything about race cars, you would know that road cars and race cars have usually have very little in common.

Also, did you know that past Skylines in the GT500 class haven't been 4WD?

Where are you getting this stuff from?

Edit- BTW, the Ferrari F40 is as Italian as it's ever gonna get.

kigango123

10-30-2007, 03:51 PM

There are several problems with your semi-rant.

1. I don't think Nissan would spend several hundred million dollars on a worthless engine with no power gain and uses even more fuel.

2. Right... when have you been able to purchase an (full) race engine in a stock car :rolleyes:? Never happened since the '60s.

3. What's wrong with "being American"? I don't think that was Nissan's intentions. Like everyone else, they want results and it's allowed in the rules.

Duell - I know It is not a new engine, it is the VQ35 with two more cylinders, but where is the forced induction!

2. If it were to be produced, It would not be Based on production GT-R

3. I have no comment because I do not want to be flamed! but still, putting a V8 in a skyline or gt-r is not cool.

Edit: What results could not be got with a turbo VQ35? 500 hp!, Infact i would think that in terms of torque and horsepower, the gt-r engine would trump any small block V8, like the one they put in the Nismo GT Z

So the engine (forced induction V-8) in the Ferrari F40 is a piece of crap?

No it is not, but the nissan V8 is!

If you knew anything about race cars, you would know that road cars and race cars have usually have very little in common.

Race cars are usually Based on their road going twins, a different engine means something entirely different

Also, did you know that past Skylines in the GT500 class haven't been 4WD?

Where are you getting this stuff from?

This stuff i am typing is called "Truth and facts". I just write it like it is :rolleyes:

clutch-monkey

10-30-2007, 03:55 PM

i know a team that has put a twin turbo LS1 in an R34. they don't have issues with 'not being cool'. if anything, it has a wide appeal

kingofthering

10-30-2007, 04:07 PM

1
This stuff i am typing is called "Truth and facts". I just write it like it is :rolleyes:

Well... your version of the truth and our versions seem to be different... Just noticed that...

NSXType-R

10-30-2007, 04:16 PM

No it is not, but the nissan V8 is!

Race cars are usually Based on their road going twins, a different engine means something entirely different

But, thing is, you don't know anything about the Nissan V8.

What are you basing your facts on?

And, race cars don't have to be based on the road going twins. In fact, I don't think the rules in Super GT require that they have anything in common.

kigango123

10-30-2007, 04:41 PM

But, thing is, you don't know anything about the Nissan V8.

What are you basing your facts on?

And, race cars don't have to be based on the road going twins. In fact, I don't think the rules in Super GT require that they have anything in common.

Cmon, it is the VQ35 with two extra cylinders, a Z engine turned into a V8. and what do we know about It.

First, the super GT cars including the fairlady and 2003 skyline gt competition reduced displacement from 3.5 to 3 liters because the engine is weak or prone to breakdown, It is built with weak internals even though they will be upgraded in the competition skyline and without forced induction, it is not that powerful either. So what you get is a weak, obese, 4 liter v8 that barely makes it to 500 HP in an already heavy skyline!.

Not cool!

werty

10-30-2007, 05:18 PM

ahhh haa!:p

I see where this is going. You just dont want it to have a v8 because then your favorite rice burner is no longer rice and is now a real mans car.

gotcha;)

70cuda88

10-30-2007, 05:28 PM

So what you get is a weak, obese, 4 liter v8 that barely makes it to 500 HP in an already heavy skyline!.

Not cool!

where do you get 4 liter?

A5H

10-30-2007, 07:11 PM

So 500bhp is underpowered?
Are you having a laugh?

NuclearCrap

10-30-2007, 07:27 PM

So 500bhp is underpowered?
Are you having a laugh?

Yes it is. It needs a Fujiwara Tofu Shop sticker on the side.

kingofthering

10-30-2007, 07:43 PM

70cuda88

10-30-2007, 07:44 PM

Yes it is. It needs a Fujiwara Tofu Shop sticker on the side.

i hear those can add up to 55 more horsepower these days

kingofthering

10-30-2007, 07:47 PM

Yes it is. It needs a Fujiwara Tofu Shop sticker on the side.

It also alters your physics so that you can take harpins at full throttle.

kigango123

10-30-2007, 08:27 PM

where do you get 4 liter?

since they will add 2 cylinders to the vq30
3 liter v6 + 2 cylinders= 4 liter v8

So 500bhp is underpowered?
Are you having a laugh?

and barely reaching 500 hp in Gt500 is not a feat,

Okay... how the hell do you know that and also, your logic is pretty damn flawed.

They have never used a v6 engine above 3.0 liters in super gt. why? because the engine is weak, that is why there are not many famous high power VQ engines around unlike the RB26 . These characteristics are bound to be exemplified in the Nismo Z V8 which is going into competition next year.

I say stick with the gt-r engine!, in the gt500, which is what is likely to happen. If they change it to V8, it will just be a heap of trouble! If there were to be a good nissan v8, it would be the mating of two SR20's, other than that it is better to stick with the forced induction VQ

clutch-monkey

10-30-2007, 08:46 PM

Cmon, it is the VQ35 with two extra cylinders, a Z engine turned into a V8.

since they will add 2 cylinders to the vq30
3 liter v6 + 2 cylinders= 4 liter v8

:confused: which is it

fisetdavid26

10-30-2007, 09:00 PM

Cmon, it is the VQ35 with two extra cylinders, a Z engine turned into a V8. and what do we know about It.

First, the super GT cars including the fairlady and 2003 skyline gt competition reduced displacement from 3.5 to 3 liters because the engine is weak or prone to breakdown, It is built with weak internals even though they will be upgraded in the competition skyline and without forced induction, it is not that powerful either. So what you get is a weak, obese, 4 liter v8 that barely makes it to 500 HP in an already heavy skyline!.

Not cool!
The weak, obese 4.5-liter V8 that barely makes 473 bhp won the championship in 2005 and 2006, with the Toyota Supra and the Lexus SC 430 respectively. I don't see what's wrong with V8 engines. GT500 cars weight about 1100 kg, with an Inline-4, a V6, or a V8, it's regulations. Also, all engines barely makes 500 bhp because they can't make 500 bhp, it's against the rules. Who knows how powerful they are when unrestricted? It doesn't matter how much the engine weights as long as the car total weight is kept to the minimum allowed.

kigango123

10-30-2007, 09:04 PM

:confused: which is it

It is a VQ30 engine, however the V8 is not 4 but 4.5 liters

The 350Z replaced the Skyline GT-R as the car for Nissan's factory and customer teams in the Super GT's GT 500 class. The cars used are heavily modified and feature a longer nose and tail (requiring the production of the Type-E homologation special), carbon fiber bodywork, and a tube chassis. In 2004, Nismo won the GT500 championship. Until the 2007 season, the car was powered by a VQ30DETT V6. In order to increase competitiveness, however, a new 4.5L V8 powerplant has been developed. The car, with slightly more pedestrian modifications also competes in the GT300 class (having started there even before the Skyline GT-Rs were replaced) by teams such as Endless Sports and Mola. In 2003 Hasemi Sports won the GT300 championship with the 350Z.

monaroCountry

10-31-2007, 12:36 AM

dodgy looking ricer car that bears no resemblance to its road going counterpart.

Wouter Melissen

10-31-2007, 12:42 AM

and barely reaching 500 hp in Gt500 is not a feat,

Do you have any idea what GT500 racing is?

Wouter Melissen

10-31-2007, 12:43 AM

dodgy looking ricer car that bears no resemblance to its road going counterpart.

If this is the best you can contribute, please don't.

fisetdavid26

10-31-2007, 12:51 AM

dodgy looking ricer car that bears no resemblance to its road going counterpart.
UCP members need to relax on the abusive use of the word ricer. Let's make things clear.

Exhibit A:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7e/Ricerburner2-neon.jpg

This is a car with modifications that have no particular purpose except making the car look more 'aggressive' in a ridiculous manner. The upgrades have no effect whatsoever on the car's performances. The base car is recognizable. This is a ricer.

Exhibit B:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachments/racing-forums/257804d1193764487-nissan-gt-r-gt500-nissan-gt-r-gt500-race-car-2007-05.jpg

This is a car with modifications that have racing purpose, and make the car ready for track use. The base car is still clearly recognizable, unless you are vision impaired. This is a racing car.

Seriously now, as soon as someone upgrades his car with parts he likes it's instantly called rice, Japanese cars are now called rice, Japanese cars owner are called ricers, excuse me but, there's something wrong on this forum. Just take a look at the new CR-V thread by roosterjuicer, CR-V are ricer cars now? When was the last time you saw a riced CR-V? I never saw one. And before someone do it, don't tell me to leave the forum if I'm not pleased. I'd prefer to improve it instead, thank you.

This was not personally aimed at you monaro, but for anyone concerned.

</frustration>

henk4

10-31-2007, 01:11 AM

ahhh haa!:p

I see where this is going. You just dont want it to have a v8 because then your favorite rice burner is no longer rice and is now a real mans car.

gotcha;)

well even if they put in a V8 it will not be a "real man's car" because it will have OHCs....:)

kingofthering

10-31-2007, 07:28 AM

since they will add 2 cylinders to the vq30
3 liter v6 + 2 cylinders= 4 liter v8

and barely reaching 500 hp in Gt500 is not a feat,

They have never used a v6 engine above 3.0 liters in super gt. why? because the engine is weak, that is why there are not many famous high power VQ engines around unlike the RB26 . These characteristics are bound to be exemplified in the Nismo Z V8 which is going into competition next year.

I say stick with the gt-r engine!, in the gt500, which is what is likely to happen. If they change it to V8, it will just be a heap of trouble! If there were to be a good nissan v8, it would be the mating of two SR20's, other than that it is better to stick with the forced induction VQ

How do you know that Nissan won't install a V8 into a production car soon? Super GT rules allow for engine swaps between models, which mean that they won't just stick 2 cylinders onto a V6 and call it taht. Neither will they half-ass some engine, there must be a reason for the chiange to a V-8.

But of course, Mr. Tradition must stick with a RB26DETT even if the new GT-R doesn't have one even if it does cause it to suck wind attempting to race the SC430s.

kigango123

10-31-2007, 08:26 AM

How do you know that Nissan won't install a V8 into a production car soon? Super GT rules allow for engine swaps between models, which mean that they won't just stick 2 cylinders onto a V6 and call it taht. Neither will they half-ass some engine, there must be a reason for the chiange to a V-8.

But of course, Mr. Tradition must stick with a RB26DETT even if the new GT-R doesn't have one even if it does cause it to suck wind attempting to race the SC430s.

Dude! :(

Do not scare me like that, A V8 in poduction gt-r will be a disaster, just like how the M3 lost tunability with its conversion to the E92 V8, and the 15 k price hike that followed. I am not saying that the V8 M3 is not good, it just lost it's good characteristics with the E46 and The gt-r would lose alot of its defining characteristics with a V8

And even though the Super GT SC430 has a V8, i still think the nissan v6 will be competitive with forced induction.

scottie300z

10-31-2007, 09:59 AM

Since engine swapping between models is legal, couldnt they just use the v8 from the m45 since infinity really is nissan and the m45 is even badged a nissan in japan?

Zytek_Fan

10-31-2007, 03:38 PM

Dude! :(

Do not scare me like that, A V8 in poduction gt-r will be a disaster, just like how the M3 lost tunability with its conversion to the E92 V8, and the 15 k price hike that followed. I am not saying that the V8 M3 is not good, it just lost it's good characteristics with the E46 and The gt-r would lose alot of its defining characteristics with a V8

And even though the Super GT SC430 has a V8, i still think the nissan v6 will be competitive with forced induction.

Clearly you are a Skyline fanboy and the V8 in GT-R ruins the GT-R for you. What defining characteristics? It doesn't HAVE to have a V6. Nissan has the right to choose whatever engine will be most effective.

The Nissan V6 was phased out because it was old. All the other teams are running V8s. Have you not seen how badly the 350Z was beaten this year? Every race it was dominated by V8 powered Lexus SC430's (my favourite Super GT car at the moment) :D.
They're not going to run V6's just to please you. :cool:

And if the concern is the sound of the engine, then obviously you don't follow Super GT. They're not meaty American V8s. They are high pitched, screamers like in the Ferrari F430
YouTube - Super GT Time Attack - Tom's SC430 - Rd. 1 Suzuka (http://youtube.com/watch?v=-rk-PTBbaM8)

kigango123

10-31-2007, 03:56 PM

Clearly you are a Skyline fanboy and the V8 in GT-R ruins the GT-R for you. What defining characteristics? It doesn't HAVE to have a V6. Nissan has the right to choose whatever engine will be most effective.

The Nissan V6 was phased out because it was old. All the other teams are running V8s. Have you not seen how badly the 350Z was beaten this year? Every race it was dominated by V8 powered Lexus SC430's (my favourite Super GT car at the moment) :D.
They're not going to run V6's just to please you. :cool:

And if the concern is the sound of the engine, then obviously you don't follow Super GT. They're not meaty American V8s. They are high pitched, screamers like in the Ferrari F430
YouTube - Super GT Time Attack - Tom's SC430 - Rd. 1 Suzuka (http://youtube.com/watch?v=-rk-PTBbaM8)

I am not a Fanboi and i am not concerned about the sound and every race is not dominated by the V8 SC430, most races are dominated by the Takata dome NSX or the ARTA NSX which coincidentally have honda V6's

The Nismo V8 fairlady was just a quick fix to the losses of the now incompetent nissan super gt teams like xanapi or the other team, the one that has a Z. "Just stick a v8 in there and we might win something "

Edit: The Nissan Z teams are the Xanavi Nismo Z (not xanapi) and Motul Z , sorry

Zytek_Fan

10-31-2007, 04:18 PM

I am not a Fanboi and i am not concerned about the sound and every race is not dominated by the V8 SC430, most races are dominated by the Takata dome NSX or the ARTA NSX which coincidentally have honda V6's

The Nismo V8 fairlady was just a quick fix to the losses of the now incompetent nissan super gt teams like xanapi or the other team, the one that has a Z. "Just stick a v8 in there and we might win something "

I know that the NSX's have V6's. They outclassed everything, winning by a fair margin everytime, except for when all the top NSX teams had a substantial amount of ballast. The SC430, however, was faster than the Z which is what I was comparing it to ;)

NSXType-R

10-31-2007, 05:32 PM

kigango123

10-31-2007, 07:01 PM

Who said you can't tune a V-8? I'm sure Hammann (sp?) and Alpine already are working on the M3.

What's wrong with a V-8? Nissan V-8's are pretty nice. The M45 and FX45 sound great and probably have good potential. If you think they're crap something's wrong with you.

Well, you can tune an m3 the way you tune a lamborghini. Mess with the ECU and add a couple of horsepower and that is about it. Forced Induction is out of the question, even with a supercharger it is a hassle. Simple engine upgrades become more complex than heart surgery. Whatever you do whether trying to lighten the car, set up the suspension, you are always trying to get around the engine.

Edit: by m3, i meant E92 not E46

NSXType-R

10-31-2007, 07:04 PM

Well, you can tune an m3 the way you tune a lamborghini. Mess with the ECU and add a couple of horsepower and that is about it. Forced Induction is out of the question, even with a supercharger it is a hassle. Simple engine upgrades become more complex than heart surgery. Whatever you do whether trying to lighten the car, set up the suspension, you are always trying to get around the engine.

It really depends on how much time/money/engineering you're willing to spend on the engine.

You're not trying to get around the engine when you're lightening the car or setting up the suspension. You're trying to work with the car to make it a better car overall (depending on your needs of course).

clutch-monkey

10-31-2007, 07:07 PM

Simple engine upgrades become more complex than heart surgery.
as well it should be, you don't pay that much for a high tech car and expect them not to have already sorted out 'simple engine mods'

kigango123

10-31-2007, 07:13 PM

as well it should be, you don't pay that much for a high tech car and expect them not to have already sorted out 'simple engine mods'

Well, It was different with the E46. You could literally "slap on" a turbo and add 75 hp or more on conservative boost. Which is what i meant by tunable

The_Canuck

10-31-2007, 07:53 PM

Well, It was different with the E46. You could literally "slap on" a turbo and add 75 hp or more on conservative boost. Which is what i meant by tunable

This is not caused by using a V8, look at how tunable the ZO6 is.

Also, when using the word literally, it actually has to be literal.

2ndclasscitizen

10-31-2007, 10:55 PM

Well, you can tune an m3 the way you tune a lamborghini. Mess with the ECU and add a couple of horsepower and that is about it. Forced Induction is out of the question, even with a supercharger it is a hassle. Simple engine upgrades become more complex than heart surgery. Whatever you do whether trying to lighten the car, set up the suspension, you are always trying to get around the engine.

All of which has been true of every BMW M car.

Well, It was different with the E46. You could literally "slap on" a turbo and add 75 hp or more on conservative boost. Which is what i meant by tunable

There's exactly zero reasons why this can't be done the new V8 model. No one's done it because it hasn't been out long enough for any to develop, test and put on sale a kit to do it.

kigango123

11-01-2007, 08:57 AM

This is not caused by using a V8, look at how tunable the ZO6 is.

Also, when using the word literally, it actually has to be literal.

How is the Z06 tunable?

You wouldn't dream off touching the ECU unless you are a computer engineer or something, It is a Y body, the least used chassis by GM
and there isn't a tuning community for it because most people who buy a corvette just get the twenty buck thing that removes corvette's CAGS and leave the things dead stock. And how many Z06's have you seen with forced induction! I have only seen one which had to special mount it's turbos in the back due to engine size issues and the rest(very few) were superchargers adapted from other cars.

Don't get me wrong, The Chevy LS7 engine however is famous for its many applications and forms and i am looking forward to the LS9 because it will be built to withstand the rigors of High compression or/and Forced Induction, but you have to admit that there is no aftermarket market for the Z06.

All of which has been true of every BMW M car.

I meant the E92, the E46 and E30 did not have these hinderances

kigango123

11-01-2007, 09:22 AM

Exhibit B: :D

http://www.nismo.co.jp/M_SPORTS/news/IMAGES/070010_1.jpg

This is a car with modifications that have racing purpose, and make the car ready for track use. The base car is still clearly recognizable, unless you are vision impaired. This is a racing car.

Nismo hat = racer :cool:

fisetdavid26

11-01-2007, 09:53 AM

Nismo hat = racer :cool:
It was a picture of the GT-R race car. Nismo simply changed the link I copied.

Ingolstadt

11-01-2007, 11:12 AM

kingango123, you have to admit that to be able to have a successor to the R34 is already a miracle. The whole point of how GTR got to fame is being the supercar killer, the 'killer' here is not on the tracks but somehow the remaining balance in your account. Being a budget supercar that outperforms many, is how it got the whole blackhorse fame.

However times had changed, since BMW and Merc starts plunging 500 - 600hp horsepower engines into their passenger cars, the whole supercar term had leaped forward by a huge margin, for years they stayed in the 200-300hp arena, then suddenly everyone is in the realms of 600 to even 700hp.. to have something that challenges them at that spectrum and to stay a budget car.. is, phenomenal.

kingofthering

11-01-2007, 11:23 AM

How is the Z06 tunable?

You wouldn't dream off touching the ECU unless you are a computer engineer or something, It is a Y body, the least used chassis by GM
and there isn't a tuning community for it because most people who buy a corvette just get the twenty buck thing that removes corvette's CAGS and leave the things dead stock. And how many Z06's have you seen with forced induction! I have only seen one which had to special mount it's turbos in the back due to engine size issues and the rest(very few) were superchargers adapted from other cars.

Don't get me wrong, The Chevy LS7 engine however is famous for its many applications and forms and i am looking forward to the LS9 because it will be built to withstand the rigors of High compression or/and Forced Induction, but you have to admit that there is no aftermarket market for the Z06.

You're talking straight out of your ass as always. Have you ever heard of Callaway?

kigango123

11-01-2007, 12:01 PM

You're talking straight out of your ass as always. Have you ever heard of Callaway?

Callaway is a high end company that makes their cars(C16) and cabrio off of corvette base, it doesn't tune corvette's, it uses corvettes as a base for its own cars. Let alone nobody can afford them, they do not sell most of their stuff i.e body kits, superchargers and suspension products in kits for the corvette, plus all the forced induction off of the corvette is supercharged!

kingofthering

11-01-2007, 12:44 PM

Callaway is a high end company that makes their cars(C16) and cabrio off of corvette base, it doesn't tune corvette's, it uses corvettes as a base for its own cars. Let alone nobody can afford them, they do not sell most of their stuff ie body kits, superchargers and suspension products in kits for the corvette, plus all the forced induction off of the corvette is supercharged!

So, according to what you said earlier, then Lingenfelter C6 ZO6 427 CID Twin Turbo Corvette (http://www.lingenfelter.com/LingenfelterC6ZO6427CIDTwinTurboCorvette.htm) this car doesn't exist. ;)

kigango123

11-01-2007, 02:39 PM

So, according to what you said earlier, then Lingenfelter C6 ZO6 427 CID Twin Turbo Corvette (http://www.lingenfelter.com/LingenfelterC6ZO6427CIDTwinTurboCorvette.htm) this car doesn't exist. ;)

That is just a corvette with two centrifical superchargers

"Belt driven turbocharger "

Pretty impressive, but you are missing the point. My point is that the cost and availability of parts for forced induction in V8's, whether Chevy or Nissan, cannot be compared to the forced induction aftermarket market of other engine formats
e.g. V6, inline six.

Even simple tuning in V8's is costly and hard as compared with other formats, The cost for that Lingery-feller thing was :eek: 45k. How much of that would i have to spend to get 800 hp in an E46 or an RB26. Even the VQ35 would not take that many moneys!

kingofthering

11-01-2007, 03:24 PM

That is just a corvette with two centrifical superchargers

Right.... You do know that it's a twin turbo Chevrolet Corvette Z06 and that Turbocharger doesn't = supercharger.

Honestly, I'm sure that at some point you'd have picked up on the word turbo, which was used not once, not twice, not three times, but four times.

Also, I'd like to mention that the a supercharger is another form of forced induction.

Even simple tuning in V8's is costly and hard as compared with other formats, The cost for that Lingery-feller thing was 45k. How much of that would i have to spend to get 800 hp in an E46 or an RB26. Even the VQ35 would not take that many moneys!

Who ever said tuning a car was cheap? I once did a quick calculation on the cost of building t3h AweSomZ Civic Si and the parts alone went above and beyond $10k. 'course, this was during my street racing phase :D

Anyway... it (the Corvette) obviously fits your criteria and smashes your argument to little shards. But like certain other members, you'll ignore this and keep ranting on.

kigango123

11-01-2007, 03:44 PM

Right.... You do know that it's a twin turbo Chevrolet Corvette Z06 and that Turbocharger doesn't = supercharger.

Honestly, I'm sure that at some point you'd have picked up on the word turbo, which was used not once, not twice, not three times, but four times.

Also, I'd like to mention that the a supercharger is another form of forced induction.

Who ever said tuning a car was cheap? I once did a quick calculation on the cost of building t3h AweSomZ Civic Si and the parts alone went above and beyond $10k. 'course, this was during my street racing phase :D

Anyway... it (the Corvette) obviously fits your criteria and smashes your argument to little shards. But like certain other members, you'll ignore this and keep ranting on.

Anything that is "belt driven" is a supercharger, whether centrifugal or roots, positive displacement or dynamic, in a car or in a plane. This means (big words, so that you can understand) Uses engine power to Increase airflow. I do not have a grudge against superchargers, it is just they are not as efficient as turbo chargers.

Turbo for life!

And i am not as rich as you that i can afford, spending 40k :eek: on a corvette kit from Lingery-feller!, Sorry :(.

edit: Just realized it is not belt driven

kingofthering

11-01-2007, 03:55 PM

Anything that is "belt driven" is a supercharger, whether centrifugal or roots, positive displacement or dynamic, in a car or in a plane. This means (big words, so that you can understand) Uses engine power to Increase airflow. I do not have a grudge against superchargers, it is just they are not as efficient as turbo chargers.

Turbo for life!

And i am not as rich as you that i can afford, spending 40k :eek: on a corvette kit from Lingery-feller!, Sorry :(.

You're obviously a special boy. :rolleyes: ;)

The name of the car is the Lingenfelter C6 Z06 CID Twin Turbo

If that's not convincing enough, I quote from the website
Twin Garrett oil lubricated & liquid cooled true ball bearing turbochargers

It's not a supercharged vette!

I hope your "special" brain can handle it.

edit- The only "belt-driven" part is the scavenge pump and that's not a turbo, is it ;).

clutch-monkey

11-01-2007, 04:05 PM

I meant the E92, the E46 and E30 did not have these hinderances
yes they did. the E46 in particular was a highly strung engine. why do you think FI kits cost so much? because it's hard to tune. why do you think BMW dropped the I6 engine? because they couldn't get much more out of it. the E92 by any indication will have more of an aftermarket, just not now, because it's been out for like 5 minutes

How is the Z06 tunable?

but you have to admit that there is no aftermarket market for the Z06.
LMFAO

jediali

11-01-2007, 04:18 PM

thanks kingofthering...my post of the week! On a side note I love it one would be car enthusiasts talk about efficiency of SC'c and TC's and dont know what efficiency they are talking about.

kigango123

11-01-2007, 04:25 PM

yes they did. the E46 in particular was a highly strung engine. why do you think FI kits cost so much? because it's hard to tune. why do you think BMW dropped the I6 engine? because they couldn't get much more out of it. the E92 by any indication will have more of an aftermarket, just not now, because it's been out for like 5 minutes

BMW dropped the I6 beacuse it price to power ratio for it without FI is much higher than the v8 and BM didn't want to dabble with turbos and such. And what are you talking about high strung, you can run about 20- 25 pounds of boost on E46 the stock bottom end, much more than you can with a Chevy v8 and i don't think the E92 stock bottom end can handle that either.

The_Canuck

11-01-2007, 06:24 PM

Tunable =/= C4n joo stik a turb0 oN it?!!?!

kingofthering

11-01-2007, 07:12 PM

BMW dropped the I6 beacuse it price to power ratio for it without FI is much higher than the v8 and BM didn't want to dabble with turbos and such. And what are you talking about high strung, you can run about 20- 25 pounds of boost on E46 the stock bottom end, much more than you can with a Chevy v8 and i don't think the E92 stock bottom end can handle that either.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you?

kigango123

11-01-2007, 07:32 PM

You don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you?

Please be more specific :confused:

The_Canuck

11-01-2007, 07:38 PM

Also if you want a turboed BMW look at the 335i.

It's faster then the E46 M3 as well.

A5H

11-01-2007, 08:16 PM

Also if you want a turboed BMW look at the 335i.

It's faster then the E46 M3 as well.

I was going to say this. The 335 is TWIN TURBO.
So the reason for going V8 is not because 'BMW don't want to dabble in turbos' or whatever the hell.
They even have a TT diesel variant. I'd say they understand forced induction just fine.

Also the people moaning that the new GTR isn't using a RB26 or similar. Do you not think nissan have a reason for this?
Are there specs for the race car going around? Maybe the new V8 creates a lot of torque at low revs which would be ideal, or maybe the power curve is better suited to racing.

I'm tempted to say the only reason people here are kicking off is because they memorised some sweet facts from the fast and the furious and this requires them to understand something else :p

2ndclasscitizen

11-01-2007, 08:29 PM

I'm tempted to say the only reason people here are kicking off is because they memorised some sweet facts from the fast and the furious and this requires them to understand something else :p

Don't lump us all in with that tool.

clutch-monkey

11-01-2007, 08:40 PM

quick someone tell Nissan and BMW they wasted their R&D budgets and they chose the wrong engine :rolleyes:

RacingManiac

11-01-2007, 09:31 PM

wow some people are pretty hopelessly stupid...:rolleyes:

kigango123

11-01-2007, 10:28 PM

2ndclasscitizen

11-02-2007, 01:07 AM

There is no clear cut advantage including low rpm torque that a v8 has in the gt car over the FI VQ35.

More low rpm torque with a big top end, less things to break, less heat in the engine bay, smoother power and torque curves and so on.

Wouter Melissen

11-02-2007, 01:50 AM

Before the thread gets all bent up out of shape, I would like to point out the beginning of the argument. Would the skyline or gt-r have a better chance of winning super GT if it had a v8? I still think that the answer is NO. There is no clear cut advantage including low rpm torque that a v8 has in the gt car over the FI VQ35.

And you have researched this with the same time, effort and budget as Nissan has? Super GT is one of the biggest racing series in the world, and you are saying that Nissan replaced their existing engine with a brand new one just for kicks? The technical regulations are a mix of restrictor sizes and weight penalties and it seems that the 4.5 litre N/A engine is ideal for two of the three competing works teams. The third is Honda, and I am sure they would switch to a V8 as well if the NSX chassis would have allowed it.

Frankly, what you think is rather irrelevant. Real life has already proven you wrong.

RacingManiac

11-02-2007, 10:01 AM

Before the thread gets all bent up out of shape, I would like to point out the beginning of the argument. Would the skyline or gt-r have a better chance of winning super GT if it had a v8? I still think that the answer is NO. There is no clear cut advantage including low rpm torque that a v8 has in the gt car over the FI VQ35.

Its funny because if there is no set advantage to gain they would've kept the same displacement of the 3.5 liter TT V6. Instead the last V6 they ran in the series was a 3.8(as seen in one of the limited edition Z in Japan, and now the GTR road car). Which means they are finding advantages in increasing the displacement for tractability sake.

As Wouter said though, the teams are free to run their race motor based on any engine on a given company's portfolio, and you would think by spending millions in the racing program they would've done their homework and found the optimum compromise between performance and restriction trade-off.....:rolleyes:

kigango123

11-02-2007, 10:45 AM

Its funny because if there is no set advantage to gain they would've kept the same displacement of the 3.5 liter TT V6. Instead the last V6 they ran in the series was a 3.8(as seen in one of the limited edition Z in Japan, and now the GTR road car). Which means they are finding advantages in increasing the displacement for tractability sake.

As Wouter said though, the teams are free to run their race motor based on any engine on a given company's portfolio, and you would think by spending millions in the racing program they would've done their homework and found the optimum compromise between performance and restriction trade-off.....:rolleyes:

Again :o , The V6 that has always been run in Super GT by nissan is the VQ30
but i refer to it as the VQ or sometimes VQ35 beacuse all the development was with the Z, and the Z's engine is the VQ35

If you really want to Be accurate, They are coding the engine as VR so the gt-r engine is called VR38DETT now

**They only increased the displacement on the road cars, not the super gt cars

Until the 2007 season, the car was powered by a VQ30DETT V6. In order to increase competitiveness, however, a new 4.5L V8 powerplant has been developed

More low rpm torque with a big top end, less things to break, less heat in the engine bay, smoother power and torque curves and so on.

a V8 has More low rpm torque but top end usefulness is difficult to achieve i.e. hard to achieve volumetric efficiency required for top end operation

M3 V8
280nm@1800 rpm
340nm@2000 rpm
380nm@3000 rpm
400nm@4000 rpm
400nm@6000 rpm
390nm@7000 rpm
370nm@8000 rpm
350nm@8400 rpm

If it were the FI E46 , torque would stay up till redline and even The VQ3-DETT would have a later drop in torque even though it revs only up to about 8k.

2ndclasscitizen

11-02-2007, 10:30 PM

M3 V8
280nm@1800 rpm
340nm@2000 rpm
380nm@3000 rpm
400nm@4000 rpm
400nm@6000 rpm
390nm@7000 rpm
370nm@8000 rpm
350nm@8400 rpm

If it were the FI E46 , torque would stay up till redline and even The VQ3-DETT would have a later drop in torque even though it revs only up to about 8k.

So you're basing your hatred of the V8 on a (completely fanciful) comparison with a blown E46? Such an idiot.

kigango123

11-10-2007, 10:35 PM

On something not totally unrelated, this is a comparison of VQ engine with RB engine using same turbo. I would hate to be the guy doing the turbo plumbing on the Z.

PENTROOF [Japan Records on Z32 & R32GTR] (http://www.ooparts-international.co.jp/index/car/listbybrand/pentroof/record)

2ndclasscitizen

11-10-2007, 10:42 PM

On something not totally unrelated, this is a comparison of VQ engine with RB engine using same turbo and this is the V6 engine not the V8. I would hate to be the guy doing the turbo plumbing on the Z

PENTROOF [Japan Records on Z32 & R32GTR] (http://www.ooparts-international.co.jp/index/car/listbybrand/pentroof/record)

Can you actually read? They're both VG engines.

kigango123

11-10-2007, 11:02 PM

Can you actually read? They're both VG engines.

It is an RB26 engine from an r32 vs VQ30 from a 4th generation Z

clutch-monkey

11-10-2007, 11:08 PM

they both seem to have similar power outputs... the cramped engine bay on the Z32 can't be good for heatsoak

2ndclasscitizen

11-10-2007, 11:11 PM

It is an RB26 engine from an r32 vs VQ30 from a 4th generation Z

No, they are both VG engines, specifically VG30DETT engines. The tables on that page YOU posted say that. So again I'm forced to ask, can you read?

2ndclasscitizen

11-10-2007, 11:13 PM

they both seem to have similar power outputs...

And the top one has a massive torque advantage as well.

kingofthering

11-10-2007, 11:18 PM

No, they are both VG engines, specifically VG30DETT engines. The tables on that page YOU posted say that. So again I'm forced to ask, can you read?

I don't think he can.

If anyone can remember that link to the twin-turbo Z06 I posted earlier, one can see that he actually thought it was a twin- supercharged Z06, even though the word turbocharger was mentioned 5 times in the page and the only belt-driven item was some random part.

clutch-monkey

11-10-2007, 11:34 PM

the second table says RB26dett to me? :confused:

2ndclasscitizen

11-10-2007, 11:40 PM

the second table says RB26dett to me? :confused:

It does. The other two have VGs

kingofthering

11-10-2007, 11:40 PM

the second table says RB26dett to me? :confused:

I think the others are trying to say that the engines are either a RB26DET or VG30DETT and not the VQ that kigango123 thinks it is.

kigango123

11-10-2007, 11:40 PM

No, they are both VG engines, specifically VG30DETT engines. The tables on that page YOU posted say that. So again I'm forced to ask, can you read?

There are three cars on the page i posted, There is a Z and an R32 with twin identical turbos and then there is a third Z that is not pertinent with the discussion

The Z as you have noted makes more torque, but the cost to power ratio is not identical to the r32 e.g.
The Plumbing difficulties for the turbo must have been enormous. Plus all the torque In the Z and all other VQ30's tuned in a similar manner have the torque jammed up in the low end, Making the Z burnouty. Torque is supposed to be through the whole rpm band in a properly tuned car.

And i hate the way, everybody says that the RB26 was removed for being crap, The Only reason it was removed was due to Japan's emmision laws of 2002

clutch-monkey

11-10-2007, 11:48 PM

^ they were removed for being expensive as well, and for being rather heavy

It does. The other two have VGs

I think the others are trying to say that the engines are either a RB26DET or VG30DETT and not the VQ that kigango123 thinks it is.

rightio. i didn't notice that he was talking about a VQ i assumed he knew Z32's had VG's :confused:

kigango123

11-11-2007, 12:19 AM

^ they were removed for being expensive as well, and for being rather heavy

Again, i say this

Emission Standards: Japan: Automotive NOx and PM Law (http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/jp/noxpmlaw.html)

In 2002, Japanese's emission's laws underwent a huge scrape, Nissan then just went to the VQ engine. Why do you think the Skyline never came to the states? "beacuse it was to heavy" :mad:

It was beacuse Nissan could never dream of beating US. emmision laws.

2ndclasscitizen

11-11-2007, 12:19 AM

There are three cars on the page i posted, There is a Z and an R32 with twin identical turbos and then there is a third Z that is not pertinent with the discussion

I see what you mean now, but it doesn't change the fact that it is still a VG30DETT, not a VQ engine.

The Z as you have noted makes more torque, but the cost to power ratio is not identical to the r32 e.g.
The Plumbing difficulties for the turbo must have been enormous. Plus all the torque In the Z and all other VQ30's tuned in a similar manner have the torque jammed up in the low end, Making the Z burnouty. Torque is supposed to be through the whole rpm band in a properly tuned car.

Both curves are near identical, they both shoot right up. And by the way, that's not indicative of anything really, as they've both been short shifted up to their top gear, then have been run right out to the limiter. You're right that torque should be spread through the whole rev band, by having it make as much torque as possible early in the range and not dropping off at high rpm. There's nothing wrong with having a lot of torque down low, you can just gear it longer in that case.

kingofthering

11-11-2007, 12:22 AM

clutch-monkey

11-11-2007, 12:26 AM

Again, i say this

Emission Standards: Japan: Automotive NOx and PM Law (http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/jp/noxpmlaw.html)

In 2002, Japanese's emission's laws underwent a huge scrape, Nissan then just went to the VQ engine. Why do you think the Skyline never came to the states? "beacuse it was to heavy" :mad:

It was beacuse Nissan could never dream of beating US. emmision laws.
you're kidding yourself if you think emissions was the only reason. Nissan themselves said it was too expensive to keep developing the engine, and too expensive to build in large numbers. and yes it's heavy, you think that strength comes free? it wieghs 324kg, and being a long engine it sits out. the VQ is shorter and lighter (but weaker). or did you think nissan adopted it for kicks :rolleyes:
:

The previous Skyline GT-R LMs had used the trusted RB26DETT Inline-6 motor, but the design was old for a racing car, employing an iron block which added weight.
no, they totally should have kept it. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the nightmarish turbo setup that made LHD conversion difficult.
no no man emissions is the only reason :rolleyes: