Kimi WC

[henk4]

Just out, the McLaren appeal has been rejected...and I agree:)


News - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com (http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2887295,00.html)

[faksta]

Just out, the McLaren appeal has been rejected...and I agree:)


News - Planet-F1 News - from planet-f1.com (http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2887295,00.html)

So, now it's all official :) Good news!

[Matra et Alpine]

Just out, the McLaren appeal has been rejected...and I agree:)
Agree on what ?
Was it "Inadmissable" ?
DID the fuel measure lower temperature or not ?
It does seem it was !


From official F1 site ....
"The FIA Statutes require appeals to the ICA against decisions by the stewards of a meeting to be lodged by "at least one of the parties concerned".
Williams and BMW argued that the appeal was inadmissible since McLaren wasn’t an interested party in the stewards’ initial inquiry and did not protest the result at the time, and this argument was accepted by the four independent judges.
"

So on a technicality then. Not right really :(




or agree with ...
, to brand McLaren as "naked opportunists," further suggesting they are "shameless hypocrites devoid of any integrity".

pot ...... kettle ....... black :)

[henk4]

agree with the outcome that KR is WC....:)

[ScionDriver]

I'm glad Kimi wins it. I though the appeal was weak, I don't know that they could have proved beyond a doubt that there was a competitive advantage for the team.

[Coventrysucks]

I'm surprised that the FIA doesn't even know its own appeals process - if the appeal was "inadmissible" why did they allow it to be admitted in the first place?

Either something is admissible or not, I'm bemused that it took four expert judges two days to work it out.

Still - it is a decision that neatly avoids having to answer any of the questions left unanswered about the decisions taken in Brazil.

How, if you are measuring a temperature, can there be "doubt" - either something is, say, 30°C or not 30°C?

How, if you cannot work out what temperature something is, can you have a rule stating something should be a certain temperature?

The FIA - in doubt since 1904.

Good work by Raikkonen - he did his job despite what was going on around him with consummate professionalism.

People could learn from that.

[NicFromLA]

Its nice to see the teams working hand and hand with the FIA to make auto racing NOT enjoyable.

[The_Canuck]

The FIA - in doubt since 1904.


Or was that 1929?

[ringle]

The FIA & F1 in general are proving themselves to be hypocritical, self-serving, and inexplicably nonsensical in just about every decision they have made in the last year or so. They change the rules without merit, alter decisions without substantiating reasons and generally fly by the seat of their pants when any kind of animosity or controversy arises. Incompetence seemingly rules the day in this "sport" (read mega-dollar business.) The egomaniacal figures lurking in the hierarchy of both are more than happy to put their foot in their own mouths while stampeding to gain the headlines by attempting to trample their "peers". The battle of words and wills that plays out almost daily now in the news headlines is simply repugnant. Having such once-respected people such as Jackie Stewart lowering himself into a "half-wit...ted" public debate with his adversary stooping to the level of an ant in a mud-slinging (read little boys in the backyard pissing contest) is insufferable.
Auto racing in general is at the best of times, rife with stolen ideas, cheating competitors, fiercly agnostic and selfconceited drivers and for all intent and purpose a playground for the extremely wealthy. Somehow F1 has taken this to a new apex and by it's own virtue, actions, & admission snubs it's (brown) nose at the sporting world.
The F1 "circus" as it is affectionaly known as it circumnavigates the continents annually, should perhaps pay a little more attention to the fragile existence in which motorsport now reside. With costs at the breaking point and real competitiveness almost lost what will become of F1? (Does anyone really believe that Force India, Super Aguri, or for that matter even BMW Sauber or Renault have a reallistic chance of winning either a Constructors or Drivers Title in the next year or two?) When nine of the eleven teams would consider it a great day if they just got a driver on the podium, and perhaps six of these teams are estatic just to move thru to Q3 in qualifying, where is this sport going?
Perhaps it is time that F1 went ahead with a single rule format simply regulating the total quantity of fuel given to each team (I'll take mine in a refridgerated container please) to run the race, and all other aspects of the car design, engine, etc., be left wide open to the imagination. (Come hither my six-wheeled antique and I shall invigorate you with a Turbo-Nitrous O2 power plant, and remote-control you from the fountain at Casino Square!)

[RacingManiac]

Its nice to see the teams working hand and hand with the FIA to make auto racing NOT enjoyable.


so, Hamilton winning WDC from this appeal would've been so much better?......:rolleyes:

[henk4]

so, Hamilton winning WDC from this appeal would've been so much better?......:rolleyes:

well, it would have ridiculed the sport to have a world champion that on the deciding races manages to put his car in the gravel trap....of the pit entry lane.....

[Matra et Alpine]

well, it would have ridiculed the sport to have a world champion that on the deciding races manages to put his car in the gravel trap....of the pit entry lane.....
1976 - Lauda retired from the last race in Japan in heavy rain, letting Hunt-the-shunt take the title by just a single point ?
Hamilton coudl not SEE the state of his tyres, sadly :(

[henk4]

1976 - Lauda retired from the last race in Japan in heavy rain, letting Hunt-the-shunt take the title by just a single point ?
Hamilton coudl not SEE the state of his tyres, sadly :(

and his team was looking the other way.....(probably at Ferrari, out of habit:) )

and I don't think anybody has blamed Lauda for what he did, given the ordeal he had just gone through...and after that he went to drive for McLaren....

[Matra et Alpine]

and his team was looking the other way.....(probably at Ferrari, out of habit:) ).
That was kinda how I looked at Lewis' off.
Not really his fault. The tyres were in a shocking state.

[henk4]

That was kinda how I looked at Lewis' off.
Not really his fault. The tyres were in a shocking state.

I think a driver should feel that his tyres are in the state they were, if I he cannot see them...

[Matra et Alpine]

I think a driver should feel that his tyres are in the state they were, if I he cannot see them...
Agreed, but the fine line between lacking grip and having NO RUBBER to contact the road is a little more (ie impossible) to determine. Especially as the manufacturers and teams dont test/run to that level ever -- not liek the old days :)

[henk4]

Agreed, but the fine line between lacking grip and having NO RUBBER to contact the road is a little more (ie impossible) to determine. Especially as the manufacturers and teams dont test/run to that level ever -- not liek the old days :)

yeah, when the drivers learned the job in the hard way:)

[Jack_Bauer]

I think the interesting thing to consider is whether the decision regarding the Williams and BMW cars would have been the same had they been at an earlier race, and with nothing really at stake.

All the precedents set when teams have failed scrutineering in the recent past (Williams & Toyota in Canada 2004, Honda in San Marino 2005) suggest that the BMW and Williams teams would indeed have been excluded from the race. Did the FIA bottle the decision?

Undoubtedly it would have been an ugly way to win the title for Hamilton, and an awful turn of events for Raikkonen. However, the sport's rulings ought to be consistent and fair, and shouldn't be affected by any potential negative "political" or PR impact.

[henk4]

I think the interesting thing to consider is whether the decision regarding the Williams and BMW cars would have been the same had they been at an earlier race, and with nothing really at stake.

interesting as an hypothesis, but unfortunately one that can never be tested. If we would start discussing this now, I am afraid the proverbial can of worms will be opened again...

[dydzi]

and I don't think anybody has blamed Lauda for what he did, given the ordeal he had just gone through...and after that he went to drive for McLaren....

enzo ferrari have never spoken to him since then

[henk4]

enzo ferrari have never spoken to him since then
well, he always saw drivers as a means to make his machines win...and not the other way around.

[Coventrysucks]

well, it would have ridiculed the sport to have a world champion that on the deciding races manages to put his car in the gravel trap....of the pit entry lane.....

Yes, much better that potential cheating be ignored to spare a few blushes.

The FIA could have easily chosen to go ahead with an investigation that should prove beyond any doubt that their result in Brazil was fair - after all, there must be conclusive evidence to back up their decision.

The FIA could still show the evidence and reasoning behind that decision and put any doubt to rest.

The FIA could show that measures have been taken so that no teams are erroneously disqualified again due to a misunderstanding, as BMW and Williams apparently were.

But they don't - no investigation allowed; avoid the questions, avoid explaining the decisions, avoid having to ensure it doesn't happen again, and by the way, that appeal we admitted was actually inadmissible...

The FIA - a Professional organisation. The profession they pursue is nothing to do with regulating motor sport...

[Daz27]

As I have stated before, The FIA could not organise a **** in a brothel. What hope do these morons have regulating a sport so critical to so many other interests. These people I imagine are still using crayons, to be so immature, innept and to be honest, such an embarrasment to our sport, I think it is well past time to remove the existing regulating body and install some adults in their place.

[Matra et Alpine]

EVery large organisation has the same flaws.
You just replace one bunch of committee-idiots with another :(

[Coventrysucks]

You just replace one bunch of committee-idiots with another :(

So; better to do nothing?

[Matra et Alpine]

So; better to do nothing?
Small improvements. ... not living a fantasy that a complete replacement will make any difference.

Besides, it's not really FIA that's the problem it's the make-up of FormulaOne.

[Daz27]

My issue basically revolves around the two goose's in charge of the show. I strongly believe that that particular pair should just **** off and stop damaging the sport. Even if it is commitee based, these two people are the 'faces' of the organisation, meaning that everytime something happens in F1, its either one or the other of these two people on tv or making a press release or whatever and to be honest, everytime I see there faces I associate them with what ever is going bad in the sport. You never see them talking about anything good unless they are talking about new races (which are generally shite) and their bank balances.

[henk4]

may I suggest to read this...

F1 | Formula 1 - Williams: FIA appeal done by the book - ITV Sport (http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=41313)

[Matra et Alpine]

Even if it is commitee based, these two people are the 'faces' of the organisation.
Which two people are you referring to ?
Ecclestone has nothing to do with the FIA operation.

[fpv_gtho]

Ecclestone has nothing to do with the FIA operation.

Interestingly enough, maybe if he did this situation wouldnt have happened due to the conflicting ambient temperatures being reported by both the FIA and FOM sources.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Does Ecclestone completely own all rights to F1? If he does, couldn't he just tell the FIA to take a long walk off of a short pier and just get a group of stewards/techies/etc. to administer the rules?

[Matra et Alpine]

As stated before "another" group will end up with the same issues some time out.
Besides, given the cock-up Ecclestone has engineered over the last 10 years would you REALLY want to give him more power ? The only GP in Eureop would be Monaco and the closest one to you woudl likely be the Phillipines and you'd be required to smoke 100 cigarettes a day from a major sponsor to be eligible to buy a ticket. Oh and TV coverage woudl be subscription only.

The FIA oversee ALL forms of motorsport as agreed by all :)

Ecclestones company has the "rights" to operate F1.
But typical Bernie, he's turned that on its head and made the control of F1 so strong that FIA really is secondary to the "circus" which is about making money and NOT a sport :(

[Daz27]

...
Ecclestone has nothing to do with the FIA operation.

Maybe not officially however if you think Ecclestone has no influence over the FIA and his little pal Mosley then you must have rocks in your head and still believe in the easter bunny.

[Coventrysucks]

The FIA oversee ALL forms of motorsport as agreed by all :)

No they don't.

The solution is to stop the silliness and just implement a degree of professionalism into the organisation.

People are able to argue about the FIA's decisions because of the way they are reached, the lack of consistency and the way that misdirection, accusation and personal feelings are presented as the "official line" through the likes of Mosley, rather than frank, honest and open explanations of what is going on.

Would there be as much controversy if the FIA had explained from the start why they had reversed the decision to investigate Williams and BMW, rather than have the details coming from William's technical director months later?

[Cotterik]

Sad to see what F1 has turned into. Winning and losing the race and the championship off the track not on it.

[Matra et Alpine]

No they don't.
Yes they do.
The national motorsport organisations each have the hands on but all their procedures and rules are sanctioned and agreed in the FIA forums :)
'cept the odd street "race" by the burberry-brigade :)

Especially in the area of safety the FIA has been a major force in ensuring the design and materials ahve agreed standards and meet them.

[Matra et Alpine]

Maybe not officially however if you think Ecclestone has no influence over the FIA and his little pal Mosley then you must have rocks in your head and still believe in the easter bunny.
Never said it did and there's no need to get personal -- unless are you the bastard son of Ecclestone ?
:)
The commercial strength of the circus Bernie built has always damaged the 'sport'. If you bother to find out about me, you'll see I've always been consistent on that point. BUT, if the FIA tried to do F1 without Bernie, they'd be tied up in court for 10 years and unable to run ANY motorsport competition until the courts made a decision. and Bernie KNOWS that :(

[Lets Gekiga In]

Kimi rocks. :) :) :)

[Coventrysucks]

Yes they do.

Lawn-mower 24hrs?

[Matra et Alpine]

Lawn-mower 24hrs?
British Lawn Mower Racing organisation is MSA UK recognised and so within that it's likely the link up to FIA does exist.

but you may be correct, I'll give you lawnmower racing :D