Audi R8 V12 TDI? [Archive] - Ultimatecarpage.com forums

MRR

01-04-2008, 09:56 AM

Sorry if this is a repost but looks like Audi's more powerful R8 will have a V12 TDI engine and not the gas V10. Jeremy Clarkson will no doubt have a crap fit ;)

Audi R8 | Auto Express News | News | Auto Express (http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/214614/audi_r8.html)

orshow

01-04-2008, 11:03 AM

I vaguely remember hearing about this somewhere, but anyway, Diesel?! at least it's TDi!

and for now, i call shenanigans on 28 mpg.....

silverhawk

01-04-2008, 12:16 PM

Ferrer

01-04-2008, 12:34 PM

Apparently they can't fit the turbocharged V10 because somehow the car catches fire.

I wonder how a big twin turbo V12 will do there... :rolleyes:

The_Canuck

01-04-2008, 12:36 PM

Hmmm with Diesel fuel as well :p

henk4

01-04-2008, 12:48 PM

A V12 that produces only 500 horsepower. i was hoping for a V10 like in the RS6 avant.
Autoexpress also have the pictures of the new Rolls Royce's smaller phantom model to compete with the flying spur.

500 BHP plus 1000 nm of torque.....

Kitdy

01-04-2008, 03:09 PM

500 BHP plus 1000 nm of torque.....

Yes, but the turbos need have a boost pressure of greater than 2.5 bar to develop that amount of horsepower and torque.

henk4

01-04-2008, 03:13 PM

Yes, but the turbos need have a boost pressure of greater than 2.5 bar to develop that amount of horsepower and torque.

where did you find that figure? In the specs of the Q7 V12?

NSXType-R

01-04-2008, 03:24 PM

No luggage space? Bullshit. Unless the engine is so big that they have to put it in the front too, then there will be no luggage space. Last time I checked mid engined means that none of it is up front ahead of the passenger compartment.

Maybe cooling will sap a lot of space, but I doubt that there will be no luggage at all.

The V-12 sounds cool though.

Ferrer

01-04-2008, 03:24 PM

Yes, but the turbos need have a boost pressure of greater than 2.5 bar to develop that amount of horsepower and torque.

where did you find that figure? In the specs of the Q7 V12?
Actually it's 2,6 bar.

km77.com. Audi Q7. Información. Imágenes. (http://www.km77.com/00/audi/q7/t06.asp) (In spanish)

Kitdy

01-04-2008, 03:58 PM

Actually it's 2,6 bar.

km77.com. Audi Q7. Información. Imágenes. (http://www.km77.com/00/audi/q7/t06.asp) (In spanish)

I was close.

where did you find that figure? In the specs of the Q7 V12?

I dug around the net.

My question with this engine is was it created with the R8 roadcar in mind, or was it built as an option for the Q7 only? It seems like a lot of money to spend on an enigne just as a prototype, so it would stand to reason that Audi always intended this engine for use in the Q7/R8.

henk4, you seem to enshrine diesel engines but after seeing the somewhat disappointing peak hp from this engine, I am not entirely sure that they are appropriate for performance cars. A twin-turbo 6L gasoline V12 with 2.6 bar of boost would develop absolutely massive peak hp and torque, and would weigh a significant amount less. The only region that would be not so great would be fuel economy, but as this is a performance vehicle, people are likely to care less about that sort of thing.

Another minus for this engine is that if it does not use variable geometry turbos (does anyone know if it does?) it will likely suffer form massive turbo lag.

On that note, does anyone know if VGTs are used in LMP cars?

Ferrer

01-04-2008, 04:04 PM

Most probably this engine is destined to be under the bonnet of big Audis, namely the A8 and the Q7. And maybe the R8.

Regarding the comparison with petrol engines, well the other 6 litre turbocharged engine in VAG only makes 560bhp and 650Nm so I guess this is not bad.

Coventrysucks

01-04-2008, 04:16 PM

and not the gas V10.

Where does it say that?

only makes 560bhp and 650Nm

Only?!

Kitdy

01-04-2008, 04:42 PM

jediali

01-04-2008, 04:43 PM

Regarding the comparison with petrol engines, well the other 6 litre turbocharged engine in VAG only makes 560bhp and 650Nm so I guess this is not bad.

Kitdy's point was perhaps that if this engine had 2.6 bar intake charge pressure it might have more power than in its current 1.7 bar guise. I wouldnt personally entertain that idea myself.

Kitdy

01-04-2008, 04:48 PM

Kitdy's point was perhaps that if this engine had 2.6 bar intake charge pressure it might have more power than in its current 1.7 bar guise. I wouldnt personally entertain that idea myself.

Why not?

jediali

01-04-2008, 04:53 PM

Why not?

because the w engines have cooling issues and requires significant reworking to handle higher stresses throught tighter tolerances. I wouldnt doubt it could be done, i just think it would be more beneficial to use the V10 for higher power. The golf GTI650 has a higher power version of this engine so it has been done on a conceptual design. Do you really want a 6.0 W12 boosting 1.6 bar (about 2.6 barg) and probably 800+hp?

Kitdy

01-04-2008, 05:25 PM

The golf GTI650 has a higher power version of this engine so it has been done on a conceptual design. Do you really want a 6.0 W12 boosting 1.6 bar (about 2.6 barg) and probably 800+hp?

Yes I do, but I would rather a V12 or V10 I suppose.

What is the difference between bar and barg?

jediali

01-04-2008, 05:27 PM

barg is bar gauge, as apposed to bara (bar atmosphere), and is what youd get if you put a pressure gauge in the inlet manifold or something....sorry its a common unit at work

my porsche

01-04-2008, 11:15 PM

RenesisEvo

01-05-2008, 05:37 AM

My question with this engine is was it created with the R8 roadcar in mind, or was it built as an option for the Q7 only? It seems like a lot of money to spend on an enigne just as a prototype, so it would stand to reason that Audi always intended this engine for use in the Q7/R8.

The Audi R10 LMP has a V12 TDI engine, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to de-tune the engine for use in the back of the R8 road-car - I've read that the engine cannot sustain its peak torque/bhp figures for endurance - only reliable around 700bhp, so a smaller detune would give 500-600, ideal for the R8. Plus detuning the R10 V12 TDI will be a lot cheaper than lopping off 2 cylinders.

jediali

01-05-2008, 06:58 AM

Do detuned LM engines often make it into low(er) end supercars? I somehow doubt there will be much in common from racing to road engines. I don't know much about this though.

Ingolstadt

01-05-2008, 10:50 AM

EXCELLENT MOVE Audi!

I remembered there's a thread bout R8 and I made the comment about rather seeing a V12 TDI engine in the R8 as oppose to the rumoured-V10. Guessed they read it. :p

It's an excellent decision. Bravo Audi!

Ferrer

01-05-2008, 01:05 PM

Do detuned LM engines often make it into low(er) end supercars? I somehow doubt there will be much in common from racing to road engines. I don't know much about this though.
AFAIK No. I can only think of the road going 962's and those aren't exactly low end supercars.

And I doubt the V12 engine in the R10 and the V12 unveiled in the Q7 are the same engine.

Fuerte100

01-05-2008, 01:35 PM

A diesel supercar... I am excited to know how it does. Could someone enlighten me on successful diesel supercars of the past? (and perhaps send me a link to an article on it?)

henk4

01-05-2008, 02:07 PM

A diesel supercar... I am excited to know how it does. Could someone enlighten me on successful diesel supercars of the past? (and perhaps send me a link to an article on it?)

try here
Audi Q7 V12 TDI - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2886/Audi-Q7-V12-TDI.html)

or look for the R10 or the Peugeot 908 HDI

NicFromLA

01-05-2008, 08:00 PM

This is AWESOME! I hope its true.

Dino Scuderia

01-10-2008, 08:54 AM

Checkout the vid of it. Why would anyone want the petrol version.

Jalopnik: Obsessed With The Cult Of Cars (http://jalopnik.com/)

Ferrer

01-10-2008, 12:45 PM

Checkout the vid of it. Why would anyone want the petrol version.

Jalopnik: Obsessed With The Cult Of Cars (http://jalopnik.com/)
If modern diesels are anything to go by it's probably seriously lacking excitement.

Kooper

01-11-2008, 11:37 AM

I'm not one for diesels myself, but man this just looks awesome!

The original R8 never really appealed to me, but in this guise I can understand the hype around it. Just, dude!

broken

01-11-2008, 02:17 PM

Sounds... Heavy.

NicFromLA

01-11-2008, 05:13 PM

Sounds... Heavy.

Exactly. Intended for heavy-duty butt kicking.

I'd love to see a text of the R8 V12TDI filled with biodiesel vs. the CCXR that runs on ethanol.

I'm also curious if this doesn't mean the replacement for the Audi A8 W12 won't use diesel instead of petrol?

MRR

01-11-2008, 06:59 PM

Exactly. Intended for heavy-duty butt kicking.

I'd love to see a text of the R8 V12TDI filled with biodiesel vs. the CCXR that runs on ethanol.

I'm also curious if this doesn't mean the replacement for the Audi A8 W12 won't use diesel instead of petrol?

The CCXR still will smoke the hell out of the R8 but the Audi will no doubt be one of the most fuel efficient supercars in its class.

Ferrer

01-11-2008, 11:20 PM

I'm also curious if this doesn't mean the replacement for the Audi A8 W12 won't use diesel instead of petrol?
Most probably both petrol and diesel powered 12 cylinder engined A8s will be offered.

QuattroMan

01-15-2008, 12:08 PM

QuattroMan

01-15-2008, 12:27 PM

here is more info my friends...

jediali

01-15-2008, 03:05 PM

I'm also curious if this doesn't mean the replacement for the Audi A8 W12 won't use diesel instead of petrol?

i doubt that one very much :)

henk4

01-15-2008, 03:09 PM

i doubt that one very much :)
the W12 will be phased out in 2-3 years from now....(heard that from somebody who uses Audi engines for a racing car).

Ferrer

01-15-2008, 03:11 PM

the W12 will be phased out in 2-3 years from now....(heard that from somebody who uses Audi engines for a racing car).
And won't they make a new 12 cylinder engine (or an 8/10 cylinder engine with a similar output)?

henk4

01-15-2008, 03:13 PM

And won't they make a new 12 cylinder engine (or an 8/10 cylinder engine with a similar output)?

I don't know. If they already have the diesel, why should they?;)

Kitdy

01-15-2008, 03:24 PM

The CCXR still will smoke the hell out of the R8 but the Audi will no doubt be one of the most fuel efficient supercars in its class.

That being said, how many people buy a sports car for it's fuel efficiency?

Anyways, this is purely for henk4 and all those that are also interested (but mostly henk4), a visual guide to the behemoth (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/01/15/detroit-r8-deciphering-the-audi-v12-tdi/).

RacingManiac

01-15-2008, 03:55 PM

It's V-12 not a W-12 right? Whats with all the talk of the W-12?

At anyrate though, this fits better with their marketing strategy with them racing a TDI powered car. Though in reality the engine weren't the same(I doubt it shared anything with the race car, other than the technology maybe to cast a aluminum block for the diesel motor, and perhaps the crazy high pressure TDI fuel system).

aNOBLEman

01-15-2008, 05:01 PM

QuattroMan

01-15-2008, 05:55 PM

That being said, how many people buy a sports car for it's fuel efficiency?

ONE!!!!!!! ME!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL:D most of this guys buy 500-600+hp cars,cant even drive for sh!t.....just to say my car has 500hp,that is it....

clutch-monkey

01-15-2008, 06:00 PM

That being said, how many people buy a sports car for it's fuel efficiency?

i didn't buy it for it's fuel efficiency but it's fuel efficiency certainly helped the decision :D

Kitdy

01-15-2008, 06:07 PM

While we're on the topic of diesel, BMW released this press release (I don't think it deserves it's own thread):

Diesel, it's not your fault

Many years ago, you were created with the best intentions.
The weight of the world's needs were put on you.
And you served a purpose - you got people from point A to point B.

But you were loud. You were smoky.
And let's face it, you stunk.

No one was able to harness your power.
No one was able to make you truly fuel-efficient.
No one was able to reduce your emissions.

Until now.

Introducing BMW Advanced Diesel with BluePerformance.
Now you can go more than 500 miles on a single tank.
Now you can emit less CO2 than any other diesel in your class.
Now you're our most powerful, cleanest-burning six-cylinder diesel ever.

And now you're coming to America.
America's first diesel with a variable twin-turbo inline-six engine.
Finally, America will learn why over 60% of our sales in Europe are for diesel.

Diesel, welcome back.

-What-

01-15-2008, 06:09 PM

Most of these guys buy 500-600+hp cars,cant even drive for sh!t.....just to say my car has 500hp,that is it....

That is just not true...pure garbage information formulated by envious people.

A majority of the people that own these expensive sport cars actually like fast cars, and a huge chunk of these people invest in advanced driving lessons and track memberships to better enjoy their cars. Normal people like yourself can't afford these lessons so you wouldn't know who shows up at these lessons.

There are a higher percentage of people that "can't drive for shit" amongst the auto-enthusiast message board population than amongst the exotic car owner population

QuattroMan

01-15-2008, 07:30 PM

That is just not true...pure garbage information formulated by envious people.

A majority of the people that own these expensive sport cars actually like fast cars, and a huge chunk of these people invest in advanced driving lessons and track memberships to better enjoy their cars. Normal people like yourself can't afford these lessons so you wouldn't know who shows up at these lessons.

There are a higher percentage of people that "can't drive for shit" amongst the auto-enthusiast message board population than amongst the exotic car owner population

takle it EZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!! I said most not allllllllllllllllll!!!

P.S. I'am not envious of anyony...if i want one,,,,i can get one.....ROOKI

Ferrer

01-16-2008, 01:26 AM

By the way I'd like to know how will the fuel consumption be if you drove like a sportscars should... :rolleyes:

While we're on the topic of diesel, BMW released this press release (I don't think it deserves it's own thread):
Nice but I still wouldn't want a sportscar (or a sport orientated car) with my engine.

henk4

01-16-2008, 01:36 AM

By the way I'd like to know how will the fuel consumption be if you drove like a sportscars should... :rolleyes:

May I advise you to READ a little bit about the fuel consumption and the number of laps on the Le Mans track of the R10..(unless you don't think that that is a sportscar of course...)

Ferrer

01-16-2008, 02:09 AM

May I advise you to READ a little bit about the fuel consumption and the number of laps on the Le Mans track of the R10..(unless you don't think that that is a sportscar of course...)
Good point but do you think they are comparable?

I think that somewhat in the real world this car won't be as frugal as it's supposed to be.

Wouter Melissen

01-16-2008, 02:12 AM

Good point but do you think they are comparable?

I think that somewhat in the real world this car won't be as frugal as it's supposed to be.

Well the R10 makes more horsepower and torque than the petrol engines and can run as many laps or maybe even more with a 10% smaller tank.

clutch-monkey

01-16-2008, 02:15 AM

i've never driven a diesel car:o i didn't realise that until right now when i started wondering about this car.. i have no comparison for it :(

Ferrer

01-16-2008, 02:19 AM

Well the R10 makes more horsepower and torque than the petrol engines and can run as many laps or maybe even more with a 10% smaller tank.
Yes but the R8 is going to be a lot heavier and probably with worse aerodinamic properties than the race car.

Also compared to the petrol R8 it is turbocharged and it has an extra 1800cc. I wouldn't be surprised if it got easily into double figures when it comes to fuel consumption.

My point was, it's not going to have diesel hatchback like figures. Possibly better figures than the petrol (almost surely) but will they be by much?

henk4

01-16-2008, 02:22 AM

Yes but the R8 is going to be a lot heavier and probably with worse aerodinamic properties than the race car.

Also compared to the petrol R8 it is turbocharged and it has an extra 1800cc. I wouldn't be surprised if it got easily into double figures when it comes to fuel consumption.

My point was, it's not going to have diesel hatchback like figures. Possibly better figures than the petrol (almost surely) but will they be by much?

It will most likely have much better mileage than a Z06, despite its tall 6th gear, at the same it will be able to get better acceleration in top gear too.
Of course it is not going to get the mileage of an A3, but if you look at what the Q7 with this engine is supposed to achieve, you may be able to do the calculations...

Wouter Melissen

01-16-2008, 02:27 AM

Yes but the R8 is going to be a lot heavier and probably with worse aerodinamic properties than the race car.

The R10 also has a larger frontal area than its competition because of the bigger radiators required and is still a lot more frugal. I think the nose of the R8 is not this 'industrial' for no reason.

Also a 500 bhp supercar is obviously going to get a worse mileage than a 200 bhp hatchback. The energy is not drawn from the air; not even in a diesel car.

RacingManiac

01-16-2008, 12:57 PM

Yes but the R8 is going to be a lot heavier and probably with worse aerodinamic properties than the race car.

If you think R10 gets BETTER gas mileage than the R8(the road car) then you are clearly dreaming, R10 is an effcient race car, but thats still in race car terms, we are talking like 6-7 MPG for a race car as opposed to 25+ MPG for a road car.

In their respective bracket, which is what Wouter I believe is referring to, the diesel technology is proving to be the more efficient one with equivelent-to-superior performance...

Ferrer

01-16-2008, 04:37 PM

If you think R10 gets BETTER gas mileage than the R8(the road car) then you are clearly dreaming, R10 is an effcient race car, but thats still in race car terms, we are talking like 6-7 MPG for a race car as opposed to 25+ MPG for a road car.
I just said they weren't comparable.

MRR

01-16-2008, 05:29 PM

While we're on the topic of diesel, BMW released this press release (I don't think it deserves it's own thread):

About time to. In my city I have seen more E320 CDI and Blutec than the comparable E350 now. Only qualm is no manual transmission with 335d.