What Engine Should Go In The Elise?

[Spastik_Roach]

In this thread, post waht engines you think should go in the Elise. Be realistic, a 8.3 V10 out of a Viper is not gunna fit in a Elise.

Personally I think the RX-7's Wankel 13b should go in it..

Or the old 2.5 Twin Turbo V6 previously used in the Noble M12 GTO, if it would fit.

[NAZCA C2]

I think the Toyota 1.8 liter I-4 thats going into the US Elise is the perfect engine. Toyota reliability and 190hp suit the Elise just fine.

[UK CARS]

2.5 litre :D oooh sweet

[sandwich]

I agree, a MR rotary would make me poop my pants. If they threw a 20b (3-rotor) in there it would eat ferrari's for breakfast.

And then lambo's for lunch.

And maybe a bugatti or two before going to bed.

[Slicks]

I think the LS1 would be a good addition, light weight (around 390lbs), pretty compact (smaller than most V6s) great amount of power and torque, and great reliability. Or maybe a turbo charged version of the 1.8 would do. :cool:

[Spastik_Roach]

Then a Koenigsegg for a midnight snack :D

[UK CARS]

Then a Koenigsegg for a midnight snack :D

then a rocket car (desert thingy) for a sleep walking raid on the fridge!!!! :D

[Spastik_Roach]

Thaats going a bit too far, UK CARS.....

I also think the 1.6 Litre Supercharged engine out of the Mini Cooper S would be good, aslong as it was tuned by Hartage.

[UK CARS]

Thaats going a bit too far, UK CARS.....


yes im sorry :( :p

[Coventrysucks]

A 400bhp Audi 2.4 bi-turbo V6 would do rather nicely....

http://www.brandes-dschuedow.de/start.html

http://www.brandes-dschuedow.de/bd_esthi/en/pop_up/pics/motorblock.jpg

[carlover]

That picture is Egg Nog's profile pic... :)

[Coventrysucks]

There is another company somewhere who did an Alfa V6 conversion.
Not 400bhp though. :)

[werty]

how about the twin turbo from porsche, that would be great :D

[bum-man]

a revtech...a light engine coupled with a light frame http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2958

[kitkat]

how about the honda s2000.
2.0 litre 4 cyclinder 240 hp

[eyebrows]

rotary or revtec (if revtec get off the ground). u have to have something like these that produce a lot of power out of a smaller size and wieght if you want a to eat up the competitors. and a 20b engine would be crazy!!! it would lift its front wheels out of the factory... not that would be a bad thing :p

[Matra et Alpine]

Honda MotoGP engine and transmission.

260Bhp from 1 litre and 6 speed sequential box.

Factory quoted as capable of tuning it out to 300bhp :)

[Suka]

I think the Rover K 1.8 VVC is great in them.

[eyebrows]

Honda MotoGP engine and transmission.

260Bhp from 1 litre and 6 speed sequential box.

Factory quoted as capable of tuning it out to 300bhp :)

WOW thats huge... i can't belive a little 1L can produce that much power!!! well i can but whats the relibility like? (this coming from the rotary fan).

[Matra et Alpine]

WOW thats huge... i can't belive a little 1L can produce that much power!!! well i can but whats the relibility like? (this coming from the rotary fan).
The Honda V5 has NEVER blown up in a race - unlike Ducatis :)
The bike world is more prestigious to Honda than car racing has ever been.
They are THE most reliable manufacturer in the bike racing world and STILL manage to get more power (most of the time) than the competitors :)

The big plus is with reverse gear built into the diff ( the normal way for bike-engined cars now ) then you get to go as fast in reverse with all 6 gears as you do forward !!!

The engine AND transmission weighs about the same as the K-series block :)

[Matra et Alpine]

I think the Rover K 1.8 VVC is great in them.
I agree totally, Suka.

but, IF, you were to put another engine in, I think a bike engine/tranny would stay more in tune with the Lotus approach than a bigger, heavier engine.

[Suka]

I agree totally, Suka.

but, IF, you were to put another engine in, I think a bike engine/tranny would stay more in tune with the Lotus approach than a bigger, heavier engine.
Yeah i hate all these american cars that have huge engines to make them go fast but are 4 tonnes.

[eyebrows]

wow that honda engine is amazing... think i'll just pop down to the shops and pick one up and put it in my go kart :eek: .

[Matra et Alpine]

wow that honda engine is amazing... think i'll just pop down to the shops and pick one up and put it in my go kart :eek: .

And you'll only need a supermarket plastic bag to fit it in - it's that small !! ( including gearbox btw :eek: )

There's a pic at http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36643&postcount=9

[whiteballz]

im surprised no one has said anything about a WRX donk or and evo donk, perhaps a bit to heavy, i would love an STI powered elise!!!

[eyebrows]

ok how high does it rev because if its revs like a normal motor bike engine its my dream engine!!!!

[Coventrysucks]

Honda MotoGP engine and transmission.

260Bhp from 1 litre and 6 speed sequential box.

Factory quoted as capable of tuning it out to 300bhp :)

Sounds like fun, but my only reservation is; what's the torque like?

[Matra et Alpine]

ok how high does it rev because if its revs like a normal motor bike engine its my dream engine!!!!
In race trim, it's about 15-16,000 rpm, so it's not an out-and-out screamer :)

[Slicks]

Yeah i hate all these american cars that have huge engines to make them go fast but are 4 tonnes.
The only american car i can think of with an over sized engine is the Viper, but thats still smaller than most european supercar engines (physically smaller.) As for other perfomance cars their engines are very lightweight and compact for the amount of power they produce. Like the Ls1, and the Mustang 4.6L, they are both lighter and more compact than hondas 3.2L in the NSX, and produce way more power, and torque. And to top that they get better fuel economy too. And the "small" I4 in the S2000, is about 320Lbs, thats only 70lbs lighter than the "big" LS1 and 4.6ford. Both the LS1 and the 4.6 are smaller and lighter than most 6 cylinders and 8 cylinders and more, from europe (BMWs, mercedes, aston martin, ferrari, lamborghini, jaguar, pagani, porche, etc etc.) And american perfomance engines are also more efficient. When it comes down to it europe and japan are the ones that put "big" engines in their cars.

[sandwich]

The only american car i can think of with an over sized engine is the Viper, but thats still smaller than most european supercar engines (physically smaller.) As for other perfomance cars their engines are very lightweight and compact for the amount of power they produce. Like the Ls1, and the Mustang 4.6L, they are both lighter and more compact than hondas 3.2L in the NSX, and produce way more power, and torque. And to top that they get better fuel economy too. And the "small" I4 in the S2000, is about 320Lbs, thats only 70lbs lighter than the "big" LS1 and 4.6ford. Both the LS1 and the 4.6 are smaller and lighter than most 6 cylinders and 8 cylinders and more, from europe (BMWs, mercedes, aston martin, ferrari, lamborghini, jaguar, pagani, porche, etc etc.) And american perfomance engines are also more efficient. When it comes down to it europe and japan are the ones that put "big" engines in their cars.

bingo. Let's not get on this topic again.

[Matra et Alpine]

.. more, from europe (BMWs, mercedes, aston martin, ferrari, lamborghini, jaguar, pagani, porche, etc etc.) And american perfomance engines are also more efficient. When it comes down to it europe and japan are the ones that put "big" engines in their cars.
Your only comparing the cars you see in the US, so that's BS :)

The VAST majority of cars sold in Europe are below 2litres.
They are econmical and pass NCAP crash test to mostly 4 and some 5 stars.

One comparison possible is in MPVs - Chrysler Voyager gets 2 NCAP stars, the Renault Espace gets 5. The Espace is 2 litres. The Voyager is 3.3 litres. Both approx the same price :) The PT Cruiser is a smaller people-carrier and only gets 3 stars, but at least the engines are the same size :)

Unfortunately, there are no other US-designed/built cars in the NCAP database :(

For historical reasons European manufacturers ( and Japanese ) don't ship small cars to the US coz they don't sell. The "big and strong is safe mindset" is strong over there I think :) Build cars that way and you NEED big engines. We do it different - I'll be accused of takign it off-topic if I start to discuss the pros and cons !!! :)

Please don't compare the 'best' of the US with the cars WE ship in to the US.
Do the comparison over here and American cars are big, sluggish, bad-handling and poor economy. That's why Ford, GM et al have had European design studios for the last 30 years :) and generally why they don't bother to try to import their cars into Europe.

Sorry, but thems the way the cookie crumbles :)

[Matra et Alpine]

bingo. Let's not get on this topic again.\
oops sorry, sandwish, the spirit was weak :)

[Coventrysucks]

Some stuff

Thats a good point, although...

What does Euro NCAP have to do with the size of performance engines?

The Renault Espace is available with a 3.5 V6, and the Voyager a 2.4, so I don't quite get what you are trying to say, as this doesn't affect their ratings.

Back onto topic:
As these Honda MotoGP engines are so small, why not have two, one to power each rear wheel? ;)

[Slicks]

Your only comparing the cars you see in the US, so that's BS :)

The VAST majority of cars sold in Europe are below 2litres.
They are econmical and pass NCAP crash test to mostly 4 and some 5 stars.

One comparison possible is in MPVs - Chrysler Voyager gets 2 NCAP stars, the Renault Espace gets 5. The Espace is 2 litres. The Voyager is 3.3 litres. Both approx the same price :) The PT Cruiser is a smaller people-carrier and only gets 3 stars, but at least the engines are the same size :)

Unfortunately, there are no other US-designed/built cars in the NCAP database :(

For historical reasons European manufacturers ( and Japanese ) don't ship small cars to the US coz they don't sell. The "big and strong is safe mindset" is strong over there I think :) Build cars that way and you NEED big engines. We do it different - I'll be accused of takign it off-topic if I start to discuss the pros and cons !!! :)

Please don't compare the 'best' of the US with the cars WE ship in to the US.
Do the comparison over here and American cars are big, sluggish, bad-handling and poor economy. That's why Ford, GM et al have had European design studios for the last 30 years :) and generally why they don't bother to try to import their cars into Europe.

Sorry, but thems the way the cookie crumbles :)
Im talking about perfomance cars, not family cars. :rolleyes:

[Matra et Alpine]

Im talking about perfomance cars, not family cars. :rolleyes:
OK. But you're still only comparing the big ones shipped to you.
Radical, Lotus, Caterham. MG(!), Ford RS, Opel/Vauxhall, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat ALL have performance versions of their cars which would see most American 'sports cars' in their mirrors on real roads. Again, you don't get to know about them.
Anyway, nothing to do with Elise engines, so we can either take this elsewheer or leave it as an exercise for the reader :)

[Slicks]

OK. But you're still only comparing the big ones shipped to you.
Radical, Lotus, Caterham. MG(!), Ford RS, Opel/Vauxhall, Renault, Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat ALL have performance versions of their cars which would see most American 'sports cars' in their mirrors on real roads. Again, you don't get to know about them.
Anyway, nothing to do with Elise engines, so we can either take this elsewheer or leave it as an exercise for the reader :)
We have Lotus here, the Esprit has a V8 that is physically larger than the LS1 and Ford 4.6. We also have Opel, and I know about all the companies you listed, just becasuse they are not here doesnt mean i dont know about them. MG uses Ford engines, Caterhams are more like motor cycles than cars, Renault, citrogen, peugeot, and fiat dont produce cars that could match the perfomance of a vette or viper, and for that price too.

[Coventrysucks]

MG only use the Ford V8, all other engines are MGRover ones, [IMG]I think... :)

Such as the 1.8 K series, which is the engine that is originally in the Elise, he said, keeping on topic. :D

[sandwich]

SO WHAT ENGINE SHOULD COULD GO IN THE ELISE TO MAKE IT HELLA GNAR????

[sandwich]

no mo talkin bout no "whose engine is bigger" and whatnot....

[Matra et Alpine]

Just to keep Sandwich off my back.

New thread on Engines 101 for Slick at http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3572

[Coventrysucks]

Hmmmm, '80s F1 engines were v. compact
Honda 1.5 V6 turbo, 800bhp... :D

[2002GTI]

How about VW's 1.8T. It moves my 2800 lb GTI to 60 mph in 6.5 seconds, and the Elise would be only about 1800 lbs. I will let someone else do the math on that one...

It is very compact, has 180 Horses out of the box, and with a chip ($250) it can be at 240HP. If you wanted more a new exhaust ($500) could easily be up close to 300HP or more.

You could do the packaging something like the YES! Clubsport (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=1746)

Sounds good to me.

[Matra et Alpine]

How about VW's 1.8T. It moves my 2800 lb GTI to 60 mph in 6.5 seconds, and the Elise would be only about 1800 lbs. I will let someone else do the math on that one...

It is very compact, has 180 Horses out of the box, and with a chip ($250) it can be at 240HP. If you wanted more a new exhaust ($500) could easily be up close to 300HP or more.

You could do the packaging something like the YES! Clubsport (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.mv?file=car.mv&num=1746)

Sounds good to me.

This is what Dreonda are doing - pics at http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3542&highlight=deronda

It's 400bhp/tonne versus the Elise' about 300bhp/tonne :)
So should be a great little trackday car - as are most Elise/Exige !!

[Suka]

Yeah i hate all these american cars that have huge engines to make them go fast but are 4 tonnes.
I can't understand why i lost a rep point for this post? Its just my opinion on them, whats wrong with voicing you opinion?

[porlamfer]

If I put the Bugatti W18 engine in it what will happen?

[sandwich]

I can't understand why i lost a rep point for this post? Its just my opinion on them, whats wrong with voicing you opinion?

there are no 8000lb american cars?

there are no 8000lb american cars with v8's?

there are only a few american CARS (not trucks etc.) with v8s?

You've probably never driven or been in an American car with a v8? (I've only been in a few)

[crisis]

I can't understand why i lost a rep point for this post? Its just my opinion on them, whats wrong with voicing you opinion?
Your entitled to your opinion. Have you ever driven a V8? Forget 4 tonnes, we know you were exagerating. I have not driven many performance 4s, a S15 200sx rocked my world though. I have driven plenty , and owned a few 4 cylinder sedans though. They are uniformaly boring. I drove a current model V6 Camry Sportif, supposed to be all excitment blah, blah. It was a great car, pretty quick, but still boring. I bought a LS1 powered Commodore sedan. This is nothing more than a large family sedan with a somewhat overpowered engine. Sounds great, and I get "sports car" like performance. And it cost little more than the Camrys, Mazda 6s Subarus etc. I know many people dont like big cars, I dont reall know why (if we are not talking about pure sports cars) but in my car I got everything that I could expect considering I had to use it for a family car and repmobile. Added bonus , I can go on holidays, fit everything in , cruise the highways (at least thats what they want you to think they are in Oz) and still get 10l per 100k round trip.
Your view of large American V8 tanks is clouded by history and heresay. In fact cruising this site will show you that a lot of modern US cars are V6s and front wheel drive. Eeew yuck.

[Matra et Alpine]

Your entitled to your opinion. Have you ever driven a V8? Forget 4 tonnes, we know you were exagerating. I have not driven many performance 4s, a S15 200sx rocked my world though. I have driven plenty , and owned a few 4 cylinder sedans though. They are uniformaly boring.
I'll say it again, you guys GET boring I4s because the public doesn't want them because they imply smaller lighter bodies !! ( and in the case of Oz, years of being forced to take British car industries worst examples at the time the whole industry was producing rubbish :) )

Sounds great, and I get "sports car" like performance.
coz you're not comparing it with a great I4, try a Saxo or 206 or Clio or new Civic-R. The old Golf GTi feeling ( the new one's just a lard-bucket and needed a V6 to push the extra weight along )

Course the "sounds great" just takes us into the same topic done to death with slicks over in other thread :)

BTW, nobody has responded to Suka's complaint at getting -1 rep for stating an opinion. OK an over-exageration but if he cares about his rep then I think it a bit under-handed not to have signed the -1 or tell him now. Hitting folks anonymously with -1 reps just measn we'll lsot the input on opinion from folks. THAT's not what it was there for :(

[sandwich]

Reputation can be an interpretation of one's quality as a board member, right? So if somebody makes an ignorant statement, doesn't that question his reputation?

Let's PLEASE not go back to the "big engine and nothing else" thread that was beaten to death. One dumb____ got banned for comments like that.

I could just as easily say "Every car to come out of Britain was poorly made and underpowered. They all suck. I won't buy a British car because they all have 90hp four cyllinders." That's equally retarded. Some were poorly built, some were underpowered, and some just sucked. Just like some American cars were too heavy, underpowered, and had huge engines. Both countries have stopped, and are now producing better cars. Let's not be stupid. With comments like that, this forum will go nowhere. If you want to state your opinion, then fine, but don't overgeneralize or lump an entire country's cars in to one category. Opinions are one thing, when based on fact. Opinions based on nothing warrant negative reputation.

I once read a qoute from a magazine talking about the limitations of sports cars in the seventies. They were discussing either the 240zx or the 1st gen Rx7, I can't remember which. It went something like: "The options were limited. You could have the overweight domestic tankers, the extremely expensive italian imports, or the British imports that couldn't keep up with the station wagon that didn't know it was racing." Things have changed since then. I hope people on this forum can keep up.

[Matra et Alpine]

Reputation can be an interpretation of one's quality as a board member, right? So if somebody makes an ignorant statement, doesn't that question his reputation?
Disagree, sandwich and here's why.
An ignorant statement of opinion definately deserves a comment or questioning of the poster IN THE THREAD.
A continued posting of same facts in spite of or ignoring debate THEN deserves a neg rep point. Because then you ARE able to judge a persons reputation fairly.
Otherwise it's opinion that's being 'scored' and sorry that isn't objective, fair or pleasant.
head that route and you'll get idiots spraying neg reps points left right and centre because of colour, creed, nationality etc etc.
oh and car ownership.... "Here have a -1 rep for only being able to afford a Taurus"
NO THANKS !!!!

[Matra et Alpine]

I could just as easily say "Every car to come out of Britain was poorly made and underpowered. They all suck. I won't buy a British car because they all have 90hp four cyllinders." That's equally retarded.
Not at all, because the FACTS in that case were that for a long time in the 60s and 70s that was exactly the problem with British cars.
Nobody over here would argue because WE were complaining and voting with ourpockets and hence why you see so many Italian, French and German cars in Britain. We're not nationalistic about our cars.

I once read a qoute from a magazine talking about the limitations of sports cars in the seventies. They were discussing either the 240zx or the 1st gen Rx7, I can't remember which. It went something like: "The options were limited. You could have the overweight domestic tankers, the extremely expensive italian imports, or the British imports that couldn't keep up with the station wagon that didn't know it was racing." Things have changed since then. I hope people on this forum can keep up.
What changed is that Ford and GM stopped taking European cars and "improving " them for the US market. So you never saw the likes of the Escort Mexico or RS2000 or the Opel Manta GTE in the 70s. Those were 2 platforms which the parent body wouldn't let come into the US without making it "american" and turning them into batlleships with outbooard motors :)
Economics have forced the change and now common platform is important.

[sandwich]

Hmm...are you saying you can't insult british cars without speaking the truth? Eek.

About the rep points- there's no need to discuss that opinion. We've gone over that stupid point of view before in this forum, on other message boards, time and time again. We shouldn't have to discuss "Big engine and nothing else" EVER again. It's been done before, it needn't be discussed again. It's dead, let it go.

I feel like i'm being repressed or something. Like you guys are a bunch haters and i'm the only player...don't hate america because we used to make big sluggish cars....

[Slicks]

I'll say it again, you guys GET boring I4s because the public doesn't want them because they imply smaller lighter bodies !! ( and in the case of Oz, years of being forced to take British car industries worst examples at the time the whole industry was producing rubbish :) )

coz you're not comparing it with a great I4, try a Saxo or 206 or Clio or new Civic-R. The old Golf GTi feeling ( the new one's just a lard-bucket and needed a V6 to push the extra weight along )

Those I-4s are boring. Like i said before we get no joy out of doing 0-60 in a mere 7-8seconds, thats a joke for perfomance cars, running a 1/4 mile in 15 seconds is for vans, not perfomance cars. Why do you think the Civic type-r is not sold in america? Its underpowered, based off a family sedan, and noone over here wants to buy a FWD perfomance based car. Buying a Civic type-r over here would be like buying a race modified van, its just stupid. On Car and Driver they had a type-r civic, and modified it to keep up with other perfomance cars on the track. After a total of $50,000 it still couldnt even keep up with $30,000 perfomance cars.

[Matra et Alpine]

Those I-4s are boring. Like i said before we get no joy out of doing 0-60 in a mere 7-8seconds, thats a joke for perfomance cars, running a 1/4 mile in 15 seconds is for vans, not perfomance cars.
Other than for the braggin g rights you CNANOT tell the difference between a 4 second 0-60 and a 5 second and as a passenger - unless you aARE TIMING - you wont' tell the difference bewtween a 5 and a 7.
Sorry done it and got the t-shirst.
So lets stop playing in the sandpit with the numbers please :)

Why do you think the Civic type-r is not sold in america?
Because it's restricted to comply with US emissions which are weighted against smaller engine and lean burns.

Its underpowered, based off a family sedan, and noone over here wants to buy a FWD perfomance based car.
250 bhp is about the limit for FWD for sure.
The Alfa is higher but is a monster to keep in line in corners - check out the TG video :)
Not had a shot at Fords special Focus which claims to put the power down, but I'm not convinced.
Americans don't want to buy 'strange' - undesrtandable and recognisable.

Buying a Civic type-r over here would be like buying a race modified van, its just stupid.
You're ignoring the whole package again, a Type-R will outhandle much more expensive cars.
I've seen a (slightly modified - exhaust and filter ) Civic R beat 911s on track. Seen it, spoke to the drive - b*gg*r wouldn't give me a shot :)

On Car and Driver they had a type-r civic, and modified it to keep up with other perfomance cars on the track. After a total of $50,000 it still couldnt even keep up with $30,000 perfomance cars.
When ?
Coz a quick search on C&D web site turned up this ....
"For some reason, automakers everywhere have a history of depriving American enthusiasts of their hottest rides. Such is the case with the new breed of hot hatch. Honda, VW, and Ford offer hotter versions in other countries of the Civic, GTI, and Focus. Read about 'em and weep."

[Matra et Alpine]

An interesting site the Car and Driver.
Had a look to see what they thought 2004 had in store and thre was a telling change.

The Honda S2000, a nice little sportscar which does very well on track and gets good ratings for handling over here.

For the US market they are SOFTENING the suspension !!

Sorry guys, for whatever reason is driving them to do that if you care about overal performance then you need to scream at someone VERY loud. In the same article it seems they're taking the engine up to 2.2 and adding more torque. So looks like they're trying to give you the faster 0-60 times and taking away some of the great handling !!

Sometimes I feel sorry for you folks....... then I go sit in a Nissan Micra or Ford Ka and I knew who has the worst :) There are some cars you DON'T want :)

[crisis]

I'll say it again, you guys GET boring I4s because the public doesn't want them because they imply smaller lighter bodies !! ( and in the case of Oz, years of being forced to take British car industries worst examples at the time the whole industry was producing rubbish :) ):(
Im really talking about cars for everyday use and families here I suppose. A bit off topic, but my point is to the "small is better" brigade, that you can have performance, room , comfort in a large car for not much dollars. The Camry is not particularly small, not for a family of four, but even with a fairly hi tech 6 it , it cannot match the fun aspect I get with my V8. Wait until you go for a drive in the Monaro. Thats basically what I drive every day. Just doesnt look quite as good.
Of course purpose built cars like the Elise will perfom some tasks better than a Corvette. It wont be as comfortable or have as much torque. Choose your weapon. Everything has its compromises.


coz you're not comparing it with a great I4, try a Saxo or 206 or Clio or new Civic-R. The old Golf GTi feeling ( the new one's just a lard-bucket and needed a V6 to push the extra weight along ))
My kids dont want to squash themselves into the back of a Clio (which in my opinion look awful), a 206 or anything else that small. I can barely fit all our gear and everyone in the Commy when we go on a trip and Im not towing a trailer behind a smaller car which would negate any handling and economy advantage.


BTW, nobody has responded to Suka's complaint at getting -1 rep for stating an opinion. OK an over-exageration but if he cares about his rep then I think it a bit under-handed not to have signed the -1 or tell him now. Hitting folks anonymously with -1 reps just measn we'll lsot the input on opinion from folks. THAT's not what it was there for :(
I said he was entitled to his opinion and by that I meant to infer I did not agree he should loose rep points. I always include my name when I give or take em (bully for me eh!). Unless someone say all xxxx's are crap or something sux etc I dont think they should be penalised for posting an opinion. Most posts are only that.

[DasModell]

taking the MotoGP .. :) . i'll switch the Honda V5 with an Aprilia(rotax) inline3 :) :) . not because is better(has plenty of power) . but just because i love racing Aprilias :)

[Slicks]

Other than for the braggin g rights you CNANOT tell the difference between a 4 second 0-60 and a 5 second and as a passenger - unless you aARE TIMING - you wont' tell the difference bewtween a 5 and a 7.
Yeah, i could tell one hell of a different from driving my friends Z28 opposed to driving my friends eclipse 0-60.


Because it's restricted to comply with US emissions which are weighted against smaller engine and lean burns.

To put it plain an simple, it wouldnt sell.


You're ignoring the whole package again, a Type-R will outhandle much more expensive cars.
I've seen a (slightly modified - exhaust and filter ) Civic R beat 911s on track. Seen it, spoke to the drive - b*gg*r wouldn't give me a shot :)

I know the handling features of the type-R, but it can still be done to a van...


When ?
Coz a quick search on C&D web site turned up this ....
"For some reason, automakers everywhere have a history of depriving American enthusiasts of their hottest rides. Such is the case with the new breed of hot hatch. Honda, VW, and Ford offer hotter versions in other countries of the Civic, GTI, and Focus. Read about 'em and weep."

It was either them or Motor Trend, i saw it on TV, they were working with the type-r, they did brakes, suspension, rims & tires, exhaust, intake, and some other goodies. They took it to the strip and ran high 14s, and on the track made not so good times for the amount of money.

[sandwich]

yeah, all of the silly ricers did poorly, when they were compared to stock 350z's and etc. The mugen civic, TRD celica and two others....none of them performed as well as a few other less costly stockers.....I saw that episode too.

[sandwich]

ps. on any sunday, a good driver can win in a bad car.

Perhaps more importantly, a bad driver can lose in a very very nice car.

Track times are a little too subjective for me. eg, what track, who's driving, weather conditions, amnt of fuel, etc.....they all make a huge difference.

[Matra et Alpine]

Yeah, i could tell one hell of a different from driving my friends Z28 opposed to driving my friends eclipse 0-60.
Never said you wouldn't. 10 second is a noticable difference :)
What i WROTE ( PLEASE read things ) was you woulnd't notice 2 seconds !!

I know the handling features of the type-R, but it can still be done to a van...
We weren't discussing what you COULD do to a car were we ?
Hey I could put F1 engine and suspension intoa van - Matra DID to the Espace.
Does it make the Espace a "Better" car for that ? NO.
So take the "I could change a van" somewhere else.

It was either them or Motor Trend, i saw it on TV, they were working with the type-r, they did brakes, suspension, rims & tires, exhaust, intake, and some other goodies. They took it to the strip and ran high 14s, and on the track made not so good times for the amount of money.
14s ? Civics at Crail that, so I don't know what they did in the MT test, but I can assure you nobody spends a lot of money in Scotland :) One common mistake ( but not one I'd exxpect a motoring journo ) to make is to dump power in the same way you would in a RWD. Fast off the line in a FWD needs clutch CONTROL as you want to let the clutch slip and not the tyres :)
I've ALREADY commented about which track. Straights or rwisties. Search on-line for a comparison of say Road America and Oulton Park in UK. You can imagine the different needs of a car to compete on each :)

[Matra et Alpine]

Im really talking about cars for everyday use and families here I suppose. A bit off topic, but my point is to the "small is better" brigade, that you can have performance, room , comfort in a large car for not much dollars. The Camry is not particularly small, not for a family of four, but even with a fairly hi tech 6 it , it cannot match the fun aspect I get with my V8.
Well it is an Elise thread, so kids and luggage for the week are kinda out. That's what UPS is for :) Don't laugh I have competed with a guy who ferighted his spares to the track for the weekend and back. It gave him room in the car for the kids and wan't that expensive and saved him loads of hassle !!!!

Wait until you go for a drive in the Monaro. Thats basically what I drive every day.
You've not been following my Knockhill posts ?
The Monaro was great fun.
BUT even a professional driver dcouldn't keep up - though he WAS doing a damn good job at trying and fried a set of discs and 2 sets of tyres on the day :)

My kids dont want to squash themselves into the back of a Clio (which in my opinion look awful), a 206 or anything else that small. I can barely fit all our gear and everyone in the Commy when we go on a trip and Im not towing a trailer behind a smaller car which would negate any handling and economy advantage.
caough trailer splutter :)
Another difference, in Europe we dont' tend to drive thousands of miles on vacation. We've trains to do that for us :)
News item this mornign on a possible shortage of gas in the US this summer poitned out that it was unique in the huge increase in gas usage in the vacation period as most Americans do drive across country. WHAT a huge waste of a limited resource.
But having experienced Amtrak I know why :)

I said he was entitled to his opinion and by that I meant to infer I did not agree he should loose rep points. I always include my name when I give or take em (bully for me eh!). Unless someone say all xxxx's are crap or something sux etc I dont think they should be penalised for posting an opinion. Most posts are only that.
AS you knwo I'm with you on that.
I think it cowardice to not stand behind ANY comment given out and hoep the person who did will ahve the deceny to PM Suka and if not apoligise at least explain. ( OK maybe a bit strong, but I've seen forum fall apart because kiddies would spatter neg comments and piss everyone off till only the kiddies were left )

[crisis]

Well it is an Elise thread, so kids and luggage for the week are kinda out. That's what UPS is for :) Don't laugh I have competed with a guy who ferighted his spares to the track for the weekend and back. It gave him room in the car for the kids and wan't that expensive and saved him loads of hassle !!!!
I know its a bit broad but it was along the lines of compromises and what you should expect a car to do. Posting your luggage?!! Chilling.



You've not been following my Knockhill posts ?
The Monaro was great fun.
BUT even a professional driver dcouldn't keep up - though he WAS doing a damn good job at trying and fried a set of discs and 2 sets of tyres on the day :)
I hang on your every word! Did you get to drive it yourself? I thought you were driven around. The Monaro is not a sports car in the purest sense, more a tourer but on the road it does a lot of things well and is good value.


caough trailer splutter :)
Another difference, in Europe we dont' tend to drive thousands of miles on vacation. We've trains to do that for us :)
News item this mornign on a possible shortage of gas in the US this summer poitned out that it was unique in the huge increase in gas usage in the vacation period as most Americans do drive across country. WHAT a huge waste of a limited resource.
But having experienced Amtrak I know why :)
Independence. Plus in Australia we dont have trains going everywhere. And when you get to your destination you are without transport. Everything is so spread out here.

[Matra et Alpine]

Did you get to drive it yourself? I thought you were driven around.
No and there
s a problem with the one at the local dealer so I'm still waiting for the drive.
On the track they were only leltting their professional race driver take it out.
Still could fun though :)
The vid's here awaiting the ability to put it on UCP :)

The Monaro is not a sports car in the purest sense, more a tourer but on the road it does a lot of things well and is good value.
Yes, I'd call it a classic GT :)

Independence. Plus in Australia we dont have trains going everywhere. And when you get to your destination you are without transport. Everything is so spread out here.
Yep, it's hard to have public trasnport in huge expanses.
Again in Europe we're lucky to have good inter-city train services ( and flights ) and then good busses/trams in major cities and rural train/bus networks. Mind you I usually hire cars as I like to explore further afiled and eat out in the country.

[vykiod]

how about the toyota 3s-gte, 2.0L single turbo, stock hp is 250ish depends on generation. torque is good but i don't know the number. i've seen an mr-2 with 817 rwhp with this engine, supposed to be able to handle near (don't flame me im not an expert) 40 psi of boost with stock internals. when professional racers choose a supra a lot of em actually take out the twin turbo v6 and replace it with this single turbo i4 because it has more potential and less weight.

[Rockefella]

how about the toyota 3s-gte, 2.0L single turbo, stock hp is 250ish depends on generation. torque is good but i don't know the number. i've seen an mr-2 with 817 rwhp with this engine, supposed to be able to handle near (don't flame me im not an expert) 40 psi of boost with stock internals. when professional racers choose a supra a lot of em actually take out the twin turbo v6 and replace it with this single turbo i4 because it has more potential and less weight.
Professional racers don't drive Supras, professional ricers do.

[Fluppe]

to make this thread revive:

the Honda Civic Type R engine, modified like on the Ariel Atom (they put a Turbo on), so it delivers 300bhp instead of 200, 'cause a small light weight car need a small, powerful engine, I think, a heavy would be bad for the car's agility and if you give it something not that big but with power, it will go around the corners very fast.
You don't have to be able to reach +300km/h, in a car like that, it's more important that it's an ace in cornering...

[Quiggs]

Professional racers don't drive Supras, professional ricers do.
And professional noobs don't know that the Supra motor is the 2JZ-GTE; not the 3S-GTE. The 3S was the MR2 turbo motor. :)

[targa]

what about the VR6....i think its called

axtually, i think the LS1 or LS2 would do nicely, pending they would fit, of course, i dodnt know the compartment specs

[Quiggs]

what about the VR6....i think its called

axtually, i think the LS1 or LS2 would do nicely, pending they would fit, of course, i dodnt know the compartment specs
The VR6 was designed for just that type of application- big motor in a small space. It's a bit on the heavy side though.

[targa]

The VR6 was designed for just that type of application- big motor in a small space. It's a bit on the heavy side though.i really didnt go all that much into it because i dont know alot about it, didnt know what the power and torque outputs were, so didnt know if it would suit the desired specs

[Quiggs]

The 12 valves put out 172hp/170tq and the 24 valves are 200/195, and the 3.2L in the .:R32 is 240/240.

Here's the specs on the 2.8L 24 valve VR used in the later Mk4 cars.
http://www.vw.com/vwcom/content/objects/pdf/engines/complete_specs_VR6.pdf
It's a very torque-oriented motor; it comes on strong and early, but doesn't start to fade until 5000+. And that can be fixed with exhaust/chip/cams.

[targa]

thanks for that

[SPN:DOC]

how about a new GTi Golf 2.0 FSi, 280Nm @ 1800rpm and 147kW :D

[Suka]

I bet they could shoehorn a Rover KV6 into one, with the Quaife six speed sequential attached.