Who does it best?

[Pitwork]

So out of these, who do you think does their "specialty" the best?

[Fuerte100]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is an I4 (Honda)? Does it have to do with VTEC?

[Pitwork]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is an I4 (Honda)? Does it have to do with VTEC?

Inline 4

[Fuerte100]

Oh, lol, should've thought of that :o

[whiteballz]

subaru boxer 4, just for the fact its sound is impressive, power is immense, and all from 2 / 2.5 litres.

[cmcpokey]

no mazda rotary?

[Pitwork]

Of course, how could I forget...add Mazda Rotary in your mind :D

[Matra et Alpine]

Of course, how could I forget...add Mazda Rotary in your mind :D
Then nobody else can vote for it .... added ( without permission, sorry :) )

[cmcpokey]

while youre at it Peter, can you remove one from bmw I6 and add it to the Wankel?

[fpv_gtho]

Mazda Rotary was an easy pick for me. Mazda have the burden of leading the development with that one, not just simply being good at it, and still come up with a half decent engine.

[coolieman1220]

BMW I6 is extremely smooth and creates lots of power, very reliable. not only does it make a lot of power but the power band is very wide and is ubiquitous among the tach. it also makes a lot of power too like the 3.2 in the CSL. next up would be Porsche's Boxer and Nissan's V6

[NicFromLA]

Mazda Rotary was an easy pick for me. Mazda have the burden of leading the development with that one, not just simply being good at it, and still come up with a half decent engine.

Even you admit it's only half decent. I've driven the RX-8 and the Wankel is very smooth and loves to rev, but its simply unable to deliver the kind of torque you want out of anything other than a pure sports car engine.

[fpv_gtho]

Even you admit it's only half decent.

You werent supposed to take that so literally. Youve never described something as "not bad"?

[NicFromLA]

I picked the BMW inline-6 for many reasons. First, BMW has amazing things with that engine using both petrol and diesel, something I don't think any of these other companies can claim. Second, they've managed to make basically the same engine feel right in everything from a big luxury SUV (X5) to a sports car (Z4); not to mention what M was able to do with it my boring it out in the M3/M Coupe/M Roadster. Finally, I just love an in-line 6 and by turbo charging it BMW has given a real alternative to the V8.

[kingofthering]

How could you leave out the Toyota 4AGE? :D

[clutch-monkey]

eh, i can't pick the BMW I6 because other companies do I6 as well, and usually attached to mor einteresting vehicles.
i'd like to go for the subaru and porsche for keeping Flat 4/6 engines, but i have to agree with the others and say rotary

[Turbo.Jenkens]

Easy, pick. No one can do a rotary like Mazda. My second pick would be Porsche's flat six.

Last place - Dodge's V10. Sorry, I just think there are better V10s out there, first one that comes to mind is from Porsche.

[acfsambo]

Not may people here would no this one but the Ford Australia I6 or 190 Barra(190kw), probably the most refined engine for its class in Australia (not just Australian cars), especially with the 245KW and 270KW turbo varients, as well as the ability to easily get 700+hp.

[baddabang]

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/xskier874/l_c1711015bea595109b8a28b4b1bcc3d3.jpg

Chevy V8. I love how everyone always jocks BMW's nuts.

[ScionDriver]

The Subaru boxer is pretty impressive but so are the Ferrari V8s and 12s. The fact that those could be racing engines and have not a lot of displacement and a lot of power is an engineering marvel.

[NicFromLA]

The Subaru boxer is pretty impressive but so are the Ferrari V8s and 12s. The fact that those could be racing engines and have not a lot of displacement and a lot of power is an engineering marvel.

The Ferrari V8 is a fantastic sports car engine (one of the best), but is really one-dimensional. I'm still not sure about the 5.9 of the 599, but the 5.75 of the 612 is absolutely wonderful - so smooth and fantastically powerful. The 5.75 is a true gem.

[fpv_gtho]

Not may people here would no this one but the Ford Australia I6 or 190 Barra(190kw), probably the most refined engine for its class in Australia (not just Australian cars), especially with the 245KW and 270KW turbo varients, as well as the ability to easily get 700+hp.

"Our" I6 is average in comparison to BMW's I6 and even Jaguars dead I6. Jag's is a better comparison as they actually made one of similar capacity, and pretty much trumped the Ford engine.

[Ferrer]

I like the BMW six. Smooth, powerful, high tech, frugal and it sounds good. What's not to like about it?

The Ferrari V12 also isn't bad at all.

[henk4]

Easy, pick. No one can do a rotary like Mazda.

actually, nobody else DOES a rotary but Mazda:)

Anyway, just to go against the mainstream, where is the AMG 6.3 engine? Where are some of the engines, and there are a few options, that benefit from the absence of spark plugs?

[jediali]

I picked the BMW inline-6 for many reasons. First, BMW has amazing things with that engine using both petrol and diesel, something I don't think any of these other companies can claim. Second, they've managed to make basically the same engine feel right in everything from a big luxury SUV (X5) to a sports car (Z4); not to mention what M was able to do with it my boring it out in the M3/M Coupe/M Roadster. Finally, I just love an in-line 6 and by turbo charging it BMW has given a real alternative to the V8.

...


I like the BMW six. Smooth, powerful, high tech, frugal and it sounds good. What's not to like about it?

I agree and choose this engine (R6) because it has such a fantastic development story. without ferrari like budget there is great technology in fuel saving, magnesium crankcase, valvetronic (i have been reading up on pumping loss recently) and now direct injection and LPTs...one complete lesson for me.


Easy, pick. No one can do a rotary like Mazda. My second pick would be Porsche's flat six.

good point but as per below, no one is stuborn to pursue the difficult emmision and wear issues.


actually, nobody else DOES a rotary but Mazda:)

Anyway, just to go against the mainstream, where is the AMG 6.3 engine? Where are some of the engines, and there are a few options, that benefit from the absence of spark plugs?

you mean hcci:D:D?...or diesels...this is symtomatic Henk4 that diesels dont insight the image of fun driving in peoples heads..its not objective its subjective

[henk4]

...



I agree and choose this engine (R6) because it has such a fantastic development story. without ferrari like budget there is great technology in fuel saving, magnesium crankcase, valvetronic (i have been reading up on pumping loss recently) and now direct injection and LPTs...one complete lesson for me.



I would not be surprised if BMW's engine development would far exceed that of Ferrari:)

[Rockefella]

I went for the Porsche Flat 6. Why? Not sure, but I'm sure many can back me up on this. [Insert reasons for balance, power, efficiency, etc]

[clutch-monkey]

I went for the Porsche Flat 6. Why? Not sure, but I'm sure many can back me up on this. [Insert reasons for balance, power, efficiency, etc]

i do think it's a better/more interesting choice than the BMW I6...
i'm marginally biased though
i still think rotary wins. although honda is f'ing good at I4's

[#3 Tasman Bloke]

My dad has the pleasure of owning a 1985 Mazda RX7 and indeed I have had many rides in it. It is absolutely awesome. However it's clutch is stuffed (getting tuned as we speak) and it might have an extra 20 horsepower by the end of it.

So Mazda Rotary as well.

[Ferrer]

actually, nobody else DOES a rotary but Mazda:)

Anyway, just to go against the mainstream, where is the AMG 6.3 engine? Where are some of the engines, and there are a few options, that benefit from the absence of spark plugs?
Well since the fuel isn't specified, some of the options can include both petrol and diesel engines. :)

[Turbo.Jenkens]

actually, nobody else DOES a rotary but Mazda:)

Mercedes and Chevrolet both played around with it, but yes Mazda is the only one to put it into production. Hence the easy win. :cool:

Excluding large trucks, industrial applications, and racecars, who makes the best diesel?

[Ferrer]

Mercedes and Chevrolet both played around with it, but yes Mazda is the only one to put it into production. Hence the easy win. :cool:
No they aren't.

Rotary engines were first pioneered by NSU in Germany whose engineer Felix Wankel designed it. In the 60's everybody was interested in this new concept, manufacturers rangine from Mercedes-Benz and General Motors but also AMC or Citroen, which actually produced some GS Birrotors before cancelling the programme.

But in the early 70's the fuel crisis hit hard and rotaries thirstiness coupled with their other problems meant the everybody abandoned them. Except Mazda that is. And the rest is history.

[Cotterik]

Subaru Flat 4 vs Ferrari V12

now thats a comparison :rolleyes:

[VtecMini]

Subaru Flat 4 vs Ferrari V12

now thats a comparison :rolleyes:Subjective, old bean. Not objective.

I went for the Mazda rotary. To be fair, I think that it's the only one on the list that I've driven*, so I might be fairly biased. Definitely an experience that will leave an impression for some, though. Might have to give in and get one some time soon... :)

Edit: * Just remembered. Driven a few Honda I4s, too. None with vtec, mind.

[NSXType-R]

VTEC Honda for sure. First mass production engine to produce more than 100 hp/l. Doesn't get much better than that.

I'm sure I'll get flamed by some members though.

[Ingolstadt]

Honda's VTEC engine.

BMW - I6 ? Heard of Nissan's RB26 ?

[Kitdy]

VTEC Honda for sure. First mass production engine to produce more than 100 hp/l. Doesn't get much better than that.

I'm sure I'll get flamed by some members though.

Was it really? What do you mean by mass production?

In terms of pure performance, I don't think any of the other engines are up to snuff against a Ferrari V12.

I could be wrong.

[Ferrer]

Was it really? What do you mean by mass production?

In terms of pure performance, I don't think any of the other engines are up to snuff against a Ferrari V12.

I could be wrong.
I sense a uselessly long debate coming.

But you are probably wrong. Think Dauer 962.

[Lotec_Sirius]

Ferrari V12, is there any doubt ;)

[Kitdy]

I sense a uselessly long debate coming.

But you are probably wrong. Think Dauer 962.

Turbocharging is for hacks.

EDIT: Fine - if you want to resort to the inelegance of turbocharging, then the modified Chevy V8 C5.R engine in the Ultimate Aero SSC.

I'll take a Ferrari V12.

[Ferrer]

Turbocharging is for hacks.

EDIT: Fine - if you want to resort to the inelegance of turbocharging, then the modified Chevy V8 C5.R engine in the Ultimate Aero SSC.

I'll take a Ferrari V12.
Well you said pure performance... ;)

By the way as for the first car to crack 100bhp/l, I have found something much earlier than the Honda VTEC. It's the Daihatsu Fellow Max SS from 1970, 40bhp from 356cc.

[Kitdy]

Well you said pure performance... ;)

By the way as for the first car to crack 100bhp/l, I have found something much earlier than the Honda VTEC. It's the Daihatsu Fellow Max SS from 1970, 40bhp from 356cc.

The S600 had 57 hp from 492 CC in 1964.

Race engines had more than 100 hp/L in the 50s.

EDIT: Hell, the first Wankel engine, the DKW 54 in 1957 was 125 cc with 29 hp and revved to 17,000, mind you, it was a prototype.


Early production Wankels also made over 100 hp/L.

If you count motorcycles, then two strokes probably made tons of hp/L in the day as well.

[ruim20]

Let's get all technicall and go for the lot, Honda made and is still makes the "champion" on the Bhp/L 120bhp/L on a road car.

I'll vote rotary, for the difference and for a bit of hope that one day some of the larger companys can pick it up and give it even more development.

[hec16]

lol I thought you where asking another question

[NSXType-R]

Was it really? What do you mean by mass production?

In terms of pure performance, I don't think any of the other engines are up to snuff against a Ferrari V12.

I could be wrong.

I meant it in that they were the first to create a 2.0 L engine, mass produced, to put out over 100 hp/L. As in they put it in Civics, Integras and such. Not sure which cars had which engines though.

I'm pretty sure that they were the first.

[Kooper]

My finger was really gunning for the BMW inline 6, but I settled on the Porsche boxer 6 in the end.

It's just so all-round awesome. If I got this right, its been around for years in anything from a 956 to the 911GT1, Dakar, the 959... That's track, off-road and road.

Its been air-cooled, liquid-cooled, carburetted, fuel-injected, naturally aspirated, turbo-charged, super-charged, duplexed to create the 917's flat 12, been rear-engined, mid-engined and probably front-mid engined as well, and a whole list of other dictionary words I'm not familiar with.

It sounds great, goes great, looks great and if what I hear is true, is bullet-proof.

[orne]

I voted for the Porsche Flat 6 especially thinking about the 911 GT3, but there's much more to it than that :)

[SprintV]

I can't believe that a Honda I4 can sit here with a Ferrari V8 and Porsche flat 6. For starters it sounds crap compared to almost all the others. Then, even though some versions develop 100bhp/L there is a huge lack of low down torque (peaky) which makes these engines useless on roads. That's probably why most other manufacturers avoid going for top end power while sacrificing low end torque.

Anyway for me from the sounds stakes alone it has to be the Ferrari V8 (the one in the F355 tune) even over the V12. I have not driven a Ferrari V8 but I yearn to after hearing them. The noise is totally addictive.

From what I have driven it has to be the Porsche flat 6.

[henk4]

I can't believe that a Honda I4 can sit here with a Ferrari V8 and Porsche flat 6. For starters it sounds crap compared to almost all the others. Then, even though some versions develop 100bhp/L there is a huge lack of low down torque (peaky) which makes these engines useless on roads. That's probably why most other manufacturers avoid going for top end power while sacrificing low end torque.

Anyway for me from the sounds stakes alone it has to be the Ferrari V8 (the one in the F355 tune) even over the V12. I have not driven a Ferrari V8 but I yearn to after hearing them. The noise is totally addictive.

From what I have driven it has to be the Porsche flat 6.

interesting post...you sort of dismiss the Honda engine for having over 100 bhp/l, and then you select the Ferrari, which in standard F430 shape, gets 480 bhp out of 4.3 litre. Slightly contradicting I would say. Further to that, having the assistance of a turbo will make many engines with such 100+ bhp/l performance figures, completely road practical....

[adperrak]

I would say the 2 TVR AJP6 straight-6 engines mated on a single crankshaft like the one speed 12 accommodated! But since I have no other other option in the poll I will have to go with the american muscle.

[Kitdy]

I would say the 2 TVR AJP6 straight-6 engines mated on a single crankshaft like the one speed 12 accommodated! But since I have no other other option in the poll I will have to go with the american muscle.

An enticing engine.

[SprintV]

interesting post...you sort of dismiss the Honda engine for having over 100 bhp/l, and then you select the Ferrari, which in standard F430 shape, gets 480 bhp out of 4.3 litre. Slightly contradicting I would say. Further to that, having the assistance of a turbo will make many engines with such 100+ bhp/l performance figures, completely road practical....

Doesn't the Honda VTEC make something close to 120bhp/l in the S2000? It's a great achievement no doubt but I'm more concerned with the entire application and it's end result rather than a set of numbers in isolation.
The Ferrari V8 has 100bhp/l yes, so what? It sounds a few hundred times better than the Honda 4. Like I said I have nt driven a Ferrari V8. After reading so many reviews it must be one of the best if not the best engine in the world. But from what I have driven (including many Honda 4s) it has to be the Porsche flat 6 for responsiveness, flexibility and noise.

[henk4]

Doesn't the Honda VTEC make something close to 120bhp/l in the S2000? It's a great achievement no doubt but I'm more concerned with the entire application and it's end result rather than a set of numbers in isolation.
The Ferrari V8 has 100bhp/l yes, so what? It sounds a few hundred times better than the Honda 4. Like I said I have nt driven a Ferrari V8. After reading so many reviews it must be one of the best if not the best engine in the world. But from what I have driven (including many Honda 4s) it has to be the Porsche flat 6 for responsiveness, flexibility and noise.

I dont' think there is much difference in the driveability of the Honda or the Ferrari engine. Both have to be revved to get the maximum out of it, and both are relatively docile at lower revs, but with not much power. In short they are both peaky engine, but can both be comfortably driven in day-to-day traffic.

[SprintV]

Agreed!