Best classic American muscle car!!!

[adperrak]

This is a thread created as an attempt to distinguish which is the best classic American Muscle Car. Plymouth's, Chevy's, Dodge, Fords, etc etc must be taken into consideration. Cars that have been staring in all time classic films. Cars that their engine noise would raise the dead. Cars that if produced today would be considered a crime for the environment! Which one is the BEST!

Please support your argument and if possible attach pictures for easier reference.

[henk4]

best as in overall package? or best in terms of q/m times?

[adperrak]

best as in overall package? or best in terms of q/m times?


It's up to you! Your personal opinion will do as long as you justify it.

[Fleet 500]

Really hard to pick one.
However, many do like the '68-'70 Dodge Charger R/T so I would pick that car. It has been in several movies (Bullett; Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry) and, of course, one TV show (Dukes of Hazzard). Here is a 1968...

[henk4]

Really hard to pick one.
However, many do like the '68-'70 Dodge Charger R/T so I would pick that car. It has been in several movies (Bullett; Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry) and, of course, one TV show (Dukes of Hazzard). Here is a 1968...

being in movies hardly guarantees quality.....Reagan was also an actor.....

[Fleet 500]

being in movies hardly guarantees quality.....Reagan was also an actor.....
I didn't see quality as a qualification. But '60s Chargers had a generally rugged engine and transmission.
And Reagan was a much better actor than Madonna!

[adperrak]

being in movies hardly guarantees quality.....Reagan was also an actor.....

ha ha nice quote. Yet to be staring in a motion picture you must have something that will make people want to see. (Style perhaps).

[Fleet 500]

ha ha nice quote. Yet to be staring in a motion picture you must have something that will make people want to see. (Style perhaps).
I have seen a few of his movies (Law & Order from 1953, for example). He wasn't a bad actor and I think he fit in to the Western genre very well. I've certainly seen worse actors!
Incidentally, "The Professor" (Russell Johnson of "Gilligan's Island" fame) was also in that movie.

[henk4]

And Reagan was a much better actor than Madonna!

Madonna has a few other qualities that RR never had.

So we now have rugged engines and strong gearboxes as a compelling motive...

[Fleet 500]

Madonna has a few other qualities that RR never had....

The only advantage she has over Reagan is being female. :D


So we now have rugged engines and strong gearboxes as a compelling motive.

I don't know. It depends on how adperrak wants to classify "best."

But I'll be back soon... I'm going for a short walk... it is 2:00 AM and still 68 degrees F here (20 degrees C). Can't resist going for a walk in weather like that!

[adperrak]

According to my taste the Plymouth 440 CUDA takes the cake. It's style, its rareness, its massive engine overwhelmed me. However, I'm open minded and looking forward to evaluate alternatives.

[henk4]

Personally I would select the original Pontiac GTO just for the originality of the concept (although they stole the name from Ferrari). It epitomised the brand, a big engine in a mediocre chassis and no other claim to fame than just being able to transfer the raw power to road on a straight line only....

[Kitdy]

being in movies hardly guarantees quality.....Reagan was also an actor.....

I think it'd be a laugh and a half to see Reagan in a movie.

CNN had a mildly entertaining show about him I caught the tail end of the other day, he seemed very endearing.

[Kitdy]

Personally I would select the original Pontiac GTO just for the originality of the concept (although they stole the name from Ferrari). It epitomised the brand, a big engine in a mediocre chassis and no other claim to fame than just being able to transfer the raw power to road on a straight line only....

A good selection. The epitome of American muscle for me is the Charger though - it may well be the most badassed car ever made.

[henk4]

I think it'd be a laugh and a half to see Reagan in a movie.

CNN had a mildly entertaining show about him I caught the tail end of the other day, he seemed very endearing.

I was actually referring to RR's qualities as a president....not an actor.

[Kitdy]

But I'll be back soon... I'm going for a short walk... it is 2:00 AM and still 68 degrees F here (20 degrees C). Can't resist going for a walk in weather like that!

It's -13C (8F) here - it was -30C (-22) yesterday.

Lucky man.

[Kitdy]

I was actually referring to RR's qualities as a president....not an actor.

He was a poor President in my eyes.

[Fleet 500]

According to my taste the Plymouth 440 CUDA takes the cake. It's style, its rareness, its massive engine overwhelmed me. However, I'm open minded and looking forward to evaluate alternatives.
Another good choice. I've always preferred the Charger (and the other mid-sized Mopars) because they are more practical... more interior room and luggage space.

But I certainly wouldn't mind owning a 440 'Cuda!

[Kitdy]

Another good choice. I've always preferred the Charger (and the other mid-sized Mopars) because they are more practical... more interior room and luggage space.

But I certainly wouldn't mind owning a 440 'Cuda!

Isn't the 'Cuda a pony car?

[Fleet 500]

Isn't the 'Cuda a pony car?
Yes, it is. Along with the Challenger, Camaro and Mustang and a few others.

[Fleet 500]

It's -13C (8F) here - it was -30C (-22) yesterday.

Lucky man.
I know it. And I take advantage of it when I can. It is still 68 outside! It always amazes me when it does that (the warm Santa Ana winds).

[adperrak]

But I certainly wouldn't mind owning a 440 'Cuda!

What about the 426 hemi engine? I think it's even more powerful. Isn't it?

[Fleet 500]

What about the 426 hemi engine? I think it's even more powerful. Isn't it?
Yeah, more powerful but the 440 makes a better day-to-day car. Less frequent tune-ups and its maximum torque is at 3200 rpm compared to the Hemi's 4000 rpm.

Overall, though, the Hemi is the more impressive of the two.

[acfsambo]

Too bad its American other wise I would have said Ford Falcon GT-HO Phase III (beats any other muscle car hands down). But since its American i would have to say Shelby GT500 as they were the 'best' off the shelf Mustang, as well as their rarity or Shelbyt Cobra(if u can count it) because of its prestige, looks and car that could handel (in relation to other US muscle cars).

[Ferrer]

It has to be the '68 Charger R/T with a Hemi and a 4-speed.

Looks good, goes fast, sounds right. Just what a mucle car should do.

[adperrak]

Too bad its American other wise I would have said Ford Falcon GT-HO Phase III (beats any other muscle car hands down).

Ford Falcon GT-HO Phase III is far too ugly according to my tastes. Sorry mate.

[nota]

Too bad its American other wise I would have said Ford Falcon GT-HO Phase III (beats any other muscle car hands down).
Too bad indeed, because the all-round high performance qualities that made our own 1960s & '70s supercars into such effective track weapons, also transposed into a superior (ie faster) machine for road use

Taking one example; when adjudged by the more credible performance data already posted, its hard to believe the fastest version of a 100% stock-standard as-delivered Dodge Challenger (426 V8 Hemi eg) as being any quicker than a corresponding version of our Valiant Charger Hemi - whether judged in a straight line, let alone around a track or indeed for fast road driving. This despite the Valiant not even being a V8!

Could you imagine any big-block US muscle car keeping up with a GT-HO, Six-Pack Charger, or even the little 3.3 litre 6-cyl Torana XU-1, around Bathurst for 500 miles .. I think not

[adperrak]

Too bad indeed, .......................
Could you imagine any big-block US muscle car keeping up with a GT-HO, Six-Pack Charger, or even the little 3.3 litre 6-cyl Torana XU-1, around Bathurst for 500 miles .. I think not

excellent point! Thanks

[baddabang]

1969 Yenko Camaro.

[Turbo.Jenkens]

being in movies hardly guarantees quality.....Reagan was also an actor.....


Buahahahah. best laugh I'll have all day :D


I know its not really a muscle car, but others have been naming pony cars. Shelby GT350: stops and turns like a true sportscar, and its dead sexy as well.


http://www.cartype.com/images/thumbs/1/shelby_gt350_catalog_66.jpg

[ZeTurbo]

For me it's all about the 69 Camaro SS
http://www.quaiswaseeq.com/uppedmaterial/2007/05/1969-chevrolet-camaro-ss.jpg

[ruim20]

Fleet got it right for me, the 68 Charger, awsome! i think it's the one in "Blade" i just love it.

[ferrarifreak013]

According to my taste the Plymouth 440 CUDA takes the cake. It's style, its rareness, its massive engine overwhelmed me. However, I'm open minded and looking forward to evaluate alternatives.

I second this vote.

[Fleet 500]

Taking one example; when adjudged by the more credible performance data already posted, its hard to believe the fastest version of a 100% stock-standard as-delivered Dodge Challenger (426 V8 Hemi eg) as being any quicker than a corresponding version of our Valiant Charger Hemi - whether judged in a straight line, let alone around a track or indeed for fast road driving. This despite the Valiant not even being a V8!


The fastest version of a 100% stock-standard as-delivered Dodge Challenger/Charger was mid-13s @ 105 mph 1/4 mile, with a top speed of 145+ mph. The Charger Daytona could go even faster... 160+ mph.


Could you imagine any big-block US muscle car keeping up with a GT-HO, Six-Pack Charger, or even the little 3.3 litre 6-cyl Torana XU-1, around Bathurst for 500 miles .. I think not

The big-block U.S. muscle cars, of course, were meant mainly for the drag strip. However, some have been in road racing/rallye courses and do better then many people think.
But for sheer power and torque and drag racing, the U.S. muscle cars were tops.

[faksta]

And Reagan was a much better actor than Madonna!

Did he star in porn, too? :D

[Lotec_Sirius]

My faves are the Buick GSX, Dodge Challenger and Oldsmobile 442

[Jack_Bauer]

Does the Duesenberg 'SSJ' count?

It's very classic. It's very American. And it's very muscular!

[ringle]

Plymouth Road Runner Superbird


Plymouth Road Runner Superbird - Ultimatecarpage.com - Images, Specifications and Information (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/901/Plymouth-Road-Runner-Superbird.html)


A car built with only one purpose. Homologation to allow it to go racing!

[ringle]

More pics.

[h22a]

does a daytona coupe or Ac cobra count as yank muscle?

[johnnynumfiv]

Hrmm, right now I'm really diggin the '61 chevy SS with a four speed dual quad posi-traction 409.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/new/38956.jpg
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/new/38968.jpg
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/new/38958.jpg
Looks like its going 150mph standing still.

[adperrak]

Does the Duesenberg 'SSJ' count?

It's very classic. It's very American. And it's very muscular!

Too old isn't it? When the Duesenberg 'SSJ' was created I believe that the term muscle car wasn't existing. Therefore, I would have to say that muscle cars are those type of cars that among other elements they are also manufactured between early 60's and mid 70's. Any objection well accepted.

[jcp123]

I've always been rather partial to the Super Bee/GTX/Road Runner trio...I'd want a '69 GTX convertible in Icefire Blue with white top and interior sporting a 440/6 and 4-speed thank you. Of course, they were also available with the Hemi...

[adperrak]

I've always been rather partial to the Super Bee/GTX/Road Runner trio...I'd want a '69 GTX convertible in Icefire Blue with white top and interior sporting a 440/6 and 4-speed thank you. Of course, they were also available with the Hemi...

pics please.:)

[jcp123]

I couldn't find the exact color combo, but it would look pretty similar to the '69 here:

Musclecarclub.com - Plymouth GTX - History (http://musclecarclub.com/musclecars/plymouth-gtx/plymouth-gtx-history.shtml)

[Magnum9987]

This is no Contest.

1970 Buick GSX Stage 1.
its the Buick-bodied Chevelle, but it has a far superior motor: The Buick 455. It had 510 Ft-Lbs as low as 2800 RPM. It topped everything of its class, 454, 442, 460, and 440s. It was the best.

And, it had a killer paintjob.
http://gallery.carphotos.org/data/1083/1970_buick_gsx_stage1-front.jpg

Oh and sorry for the necropost

[2JZ Mikey.]

In my opinion,the Dodge Charger of 1970 vintage would have to be the overall package.They Have the looks,the style and the tough mechanicals to match.Chrysler was a very underrated company back then with people opting for the more popular Chevrolet or Ford brand but considering they had and still have the best V8s to race with(think Keith Black Hemis),it`s hard not take them seriously.

[Commodore GS/E]

I know I'm alone with my choice, but I'd vote for the AMC AMX. Totally underrated car with nice design and good engines that was killed by AMC's reputation.

[roosterjuicer]

1970 Chevelle 454 SS. It was the absolute peak of muscle cars and it was also the last great muscle car until more modern times. It had the most horsepower of any of the old muscle cars.

It was fast, it was big, it was loud, it had a massive engine, it was good looking.

Until relatively recently, it had the most power of any GM vehicle ever built. I think the c6 z06 was the first to surpass it.

[Kitdy]

It must be understood rooster that the Chevelle was rated in gross hp or "fantasy hp," where the actual number was just a vague representation of reality.

[roosterjuicer]

It must be understood rooster that the Chevelle was rated in gross hp or "fantasy hp," where the actual number was just a vague representation of reality.

Agreed, it made considerably more horsepower than it was conservatively rated at for insurance purposes ;)

[johnnynumfiv]

Agreed, it made considerably more horsepower than it was conservatively rated at for insurance purposes ;)

I wouldn't say it made much more power than what it was rated at. Seeing how the LS7 was rated at 500hp.

[Kitdy]

Agreed, it made considerably more horsepower than it was conservatively rated at for insurance purposes ;)


I wouldn't say it made much more power than what it was rated at. Seeing how the LS7 was rated at 500hp.

Yeah... The underquoting was not really a problem - gross hp really inflated the numbers. A rough guess form shit I've read puts gross hp as much as 20% less than what was quoted in net hp.

I am not sure the methodology used to do this though. Testing these old cars now wouldn't be great.

Ah.

This is a rather great article. I know (hope?) you were joking rj, but this article (http://ateupwithmotor.com/automotive-terms/47-gross-versus-net-horsepower.html) is good reading for those that haven't learned about it - it's the best summary I've read on the net about these ratings.

So, as much as 30% overquoting, and this is a particularly good example:


While the late sixties were a golden age of horsepower compared to the late seventies or early eighties, the differences weren't quite as vast as they appear at first blush. A '67 Impala with the 396, rated 325 gross horsepower (242 kW), probably had something like 220 net horsepower (164 kW) in pure stock form -- decent, but no muscle car.

Also:


Between inflation and deliberate underrating, by 1970, the relationship between advertised gross horsepower and actual power was at best nebulous. The gross ratings served a variety of political and marketing purposes, but they were far from useful as a realistic measure of engine output.

[Magnum9987]

I know I'm alone with my choice, but I'd vote for the AMC AMX. Totally underrated car with nice design and good engines that was killed by AMC's reputation.

Nice choice. Not very common but its more unique for that. :D


And Yeah, alot of the muscle cars we over rated or even under rated.

They relied on unregulated Gross HP ratings, which measured HP without the attachments such as AC, Power steering, ETC. This could provide lots of added numbers that just weren't their.

And then plenty were under rated for insurance reasons. A good example is that the Boss 429 was rated at only 375, while ratings vary to as high as 500 HP.

[Commodore GS/E]

Underrating is still a common practice to avoid high insurance. If what i read is thrue, the recent Audi S4 does produce nearly 400 hp (the engine is rated 333 hp).

But this is still not as good as RR's performance quote: "enough" :D.

[AMGRoadster]

I would have to say the 67 Ford Mustang fastback or the 67 Shelby GT500. Both are incredible classic muscle cars.