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The_Canuck
02-18-2008, 01:10 PM
Format war is reportedly over: Toshiba to give up on HD DVD, end format war: source - Yahoo! Canada News (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/tech_toshiba_hd_dvd_col)


TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to give up on its HD DVD format for high definition DVDs, conceding defeat to the competing Blu-Ray technology backed by Sony Corp, a company source said on Saturday.


The move will likely put an end to a battle that has gone on for several years between consortiums led by Toshiba and Sony vying to set the standard for the next-generation DVD and compatible video equipment.


The format war, often compared to the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, has confused consumers unsure of which DVD or player to buy, slowing the development what is expected to be a multibillion dollar high definition DVD industry.


Toshiba's cause has suffered several setbacks in recent weeks including Friday's announcement by U.S. retailing giant Wal-Mart Stores Inc that it would abandon the HD DVD format and only stock its shelves with Blu-ray movies.


A source at Toshiba confirmed an earlier report by public broadcaster NHK that it was getting ready to pull the plug.


"We have entered the final stage of planning to make our exit from the next generation DVD business," said the source, who asked not to be identified. He added that an official announcement could come as early as next week.


No one answered the phone at Toshiba's public relations office in Tokyo.


NHK said Toshiba would suffer losses running to tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) to scrap production of HD DVD players and recorders and other steps to withdraw from the business.


Hollywood studios had initially split their alliances between the two camps, meaning only certain films would play on any one DVD machine.


The balance of power tipped decisively toward the Sony camp in January after Time Warner Inc's Warner Bros studio said it would only release high-definition DVDs in Blu-ray format. With that, studios behind some three-quarters of DVDs are backing Blu-ray, although some release in both formats.


Toshiba responded by slashing prices of HD DVD players, but the loss of retail support has hurt.


In addition to Wal-Mart, consumer electronics chain Best Buy Co Inc and online video rental company Netflix Inc also recently signed up to the Blu-ray camp.


The exclusive backing of Microsoft Corp was also put in doubt when the software giant said in January that it could consider supporting Blu-ray technology for its Xbox 360 video game machine, which currently works only with HD DVD.


Sony has spent large sums of money to promote Blu-ray in tandem with its flat screen TVs and its PlayStation 3 game console, which can play Blu-ray movies.


The Toshiba source said the experience would not be a total loss for the sprawling conglomerate, whose products range from refrigerators to power plants, which would learn valuable lessons.


"Marketing was a weak point for Toshiba. We learned a lot from HD DVD. Strengthening marketing will continue to be an issue for us going forward," the source said.


(Reporting by Mayumi Negishi, Kentaro Hamada and Nathan Layne, editing by Mike Peacock)



Thoughts?

Dino Scuderia
02-18-2008, 01:26 PM
The writing has been on the wall a few months, glad it's finally official.

blackcat77
02-18-2008, 01:32 PM
I bought an HD-DVD last summer and I'm not happy that I backed the wrong horse, but these things happen I guess. And the silver cloud is that HD-DVD disks are dirt cheap so I'll probably go over to Amazon and buy a few.

ScionDriver
02-18-2008, 02:06 PM
Well my dad has been waiting and now hes going Blu-Ray which is good, and I guess in the future I can go Blu-Ray. The nails in the coffin, at least IMO, were when the Porn Industry and Wal-Mart went Blu-Ray because at least in this country porn has historically been the trendsetter (Doesn't say much about us does it?)

coolieman1220
02-18-2008, 04:07 PM
i knew it from the start!

kingofthering
02-18-2008, 04:29 PM
Proof that PS3 >360.

But it's interesting to see Sony win a format war (hints at Beta vs. VHS). I guess you can't fool them twice.

Bring on the failplayer/format pics.

Kitdy
02-18-2008, 04:53 PM
Proof that PS3 >360.

But it's interesting to see Sony win a format war (hints at Beta vs. VHS). I guess you can't fool them twice.

Bring on the failplayer/format pics.

I hear Blu Ray is superior - in terms of sound fidelity or something?

Beta was superior than VHS and failed.

I am happy that the superior technology won.

Rockefella
02-18-2008, 04:56 PM
Proof that PS3 >360.

It's not April 1st?

Quiggs
02-18-2008, 05:01 PM
It's about time. Now I just need all the stuff that's out on HDDVD to come out on BRD.

Betamax is still in use all around the world. In TV stations.

Edit: And the whole PS3 > 360 thing is stupid. PS3 played a role, but it wasn't the be all, end all that the Sony fanbois would like it to have been.

This war was won by the movie studios and Sony's huge pockets.

Dino Scuderia
02-18-2008, 05:09 PM
Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the largest U.S. retailer, said it will sell only Blu-ray DVDs and hardware and no longer carry HD DVD offerings.

Netflix Inc. said it will cease carrying rentals in HD DVD. Several major U.S. retailers have made similar decisions, including Target Corp. and Blockbuster Inc.

Warner Bros. Entertainment has decided to release movie discs only in the Blu-ray format, becoming the latest studio to reject HD DVD.
Warner Bros., owned by Time Warner Inc., had been the only remaining Hollywood studio releasing high-definition DVDs in both formats.

LG, the company who released a player that was both HD DVD and Blu-Ray has experienced very poor sales figures. Watch for those players to be sold off at well below cost. Maybe now a good buy for anyone who has built a collection of HD DVD's and wants to switch.

kingofthering
02-18-2008, 05:17 PM
It's not April 1st?

whoops forgot the smiley.

RacingManiac
02-18-2008, 05:19 PM
well seems that my new BD player came just in time then....

kingofthering
02-18-2008, 05:23 PM
Is myporsche gonna get a failplayer for his failtruck? :p

fisetdavid26
02-18-2008, 05:29 PM
Poor people who bought the X360's HD-DVD player.

Kitdy
02-18-2008, 05:30 PM
I always preferred the sound of HD DVD more than Blu Ray. Blu isn't even spelled right, and HD DVD is just more descriptive.

fisetdavid26
02-18-2008, 05:34 PM
I always preferred the sound of HD DVD more than Blu Ray. Blu isn't even spelled right, and HD DVD is just more descriptive.
Blu-Ray is a very descriptive name... it says the disc uses a blue laser.

And whatever if blue isn't spelled right.

clutch-monkey
02-18-2008, 05:38 PM
well at least it's been cleared up now. i hate having to choose between products not knowing which might not be supported in a year.
it is a little disconcerting that the cheapest blu ray player is the PS3 though..

Quiggs
02-18-2008, 05:49 PM
It's also the best BR player on the market. Consumer grade, anyway.

clutch-monkey
02-18-2008, 05:53 PM
It's also the best BR player on the market. Consumer grade, anyway.

it just happens to have a shitty games console attached to it :(

Dino Scuderia
02-18-2008, 05:55 PM
Philips is to have a BR player on the market in April which will sell for $349.

And since it looks like this is resolved I bet by Xmas they will be a lot cheaper as every electronics company can feel free to commit now.

2ndclasscitizen
02-18-2008, 05:58 PM
I hear Blu Ray is superior - in terms of sound fidelity or something?

Blu-Ray and HD DVD aren't video formats, they're storage mediums. And Blu-Ray was higher capacity from the start (there's been all these small disc manufacturers promising higher and higher capacity HD DVD and Blu-Ray discs since they came out) so it can theoretically carry higher quality video, but both were big enough to hold a 2hr movie at 1080p. (15gb for HD DVD, 27gb for Blu-Ray). Both use the same codecs as well.


Poor people who bought the X360's HD-DVD player.

Not really, they're pretty cheap. And it's not exactly poor them, because they'll be able to get HD DVD movies for bargain prices. I'm just annoyed I didn't by the cheap HD CRT TV I found, cause I'd go buy a run-out HD DVD player then hit the net for a shitload of movies.

EDIT: Hmmm...Toshiba denies it is dropping HD DVD (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12965.cfm)

Kitdy
02-18-2008, 06:00 PM
Blu-Ray and HD DVD aren't video formats

I was aware. I just thought that Blu Ray had more space for sound or some shit like that.

Dino Scuderia
02-18-2008, 06:05 PM
Blu-Ray and HD DVD aren't video formats, they're storage mediums. And Blu-Ray was higher capacity from the start (there's been all these small disc manufacturers promising higher and higher capacity HD DVD and Blu-Ray discs since they came out) so it can theoretically carry higher quality video, but both were big enough to hold a 2hr movie at 1080p. (15gb for HD DVD, 27gb for Blu-Ray). Both use the same codecs as well.



Not really, they're pretty cheap. And it's not exactly poor them, because they'll be able to get HD DVD movies for bargain prices. I'm just annoyed I didn't by the cheap HD CRT TV I found, cause I'd go buy a run-out HD DVD player then hit the net for a shitload of movies.

EDIT: Hmmm...Toshiba denies it is dropping HD DVD (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12965.cfm)

On the denial...Yeah, right. They would have hated to see it leak out, now wouldn't they? That would effectively kill HD DVD sales in players and discs. Talk about baiting people into continuing to waste their money. RCA basically had the same thing happen with SelectaVision. BETA, Four-track and some other media certainly had a longer life, but at just about two years, it's the writing-on-the-wall for HD DVD.

57% off...anyone care to bite?

Amazon.com: Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD Player: Electronics (http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-HD-A2-HD-DVD-Player/dp/B000IJV4BC)

crisis
02-18-2008, 06:11 PM
Both were again answers to questions never asked. After DVD did anyone need higher definition? Well not until they were offered it. I saw a Blu Ray disc playing some animated fluffy animal Pixar thing on a HD LCD and I was about a foot form it marvelling at the detail. Only thing is you generally sit back a few meters at least. I am surely going to get a PS3 , don’t get me wrong, and I will surely enjoy the greater reproduction but we are really gilding the lily with this stuff now.
Anyway PS3 destined HD DVD to fail.

IBrake4Rainbows
02-18-2008, 06:15 PM
Crisis, Hammer has hit Nail with that point.

I have an HD-TV. And I bluntly can't see the difference when I watch TV between HD channels and their analogue equivalent.

the HD-DVD was doomed due to it's stupid name that made you sound like you were stuttering when asking for it.

Quiggs
02-18-2008, 06:22 PM
You're both blind. I sit about 7' from a 52" 1080P Mitsu DLP, and the difference from standard definition to high def is night and day.

2ndclasscitizen
02-18-2008, 06:24 PM
I have an HD-TV. And I bluntly can't see the difference when I watch TV between HD channels and their analogue equivalent.

That's not the difference in quality between SD and HD, that's Australian TV stations really only just starting to get somewhat serious about broadcasting HD TV, and also them upconverting basically everything bar a few prime-time programs.

IBrake4Rainbows
02-18-2008, 06:26 PM
I was watching a Brand New Program and flicked between the HD Channel (1080i) and the Non-HD (580).

I genuinely couldn't tell the difference.

Quiggs
02-18-2008, 06:31 PM
I was watching a Brand New Program and flicked between the HD Channel (1080i) and the Non-HD (580).

I genuinely couldn't tell the difference.

How far do you sit from the screen, and what's the screen size?

Chart: 1080P Does Matter - CarltonBale.com (http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html)

IBrake4Rainbows
02-18-2008, 06:33 PM
It's a 32 inch. so it's not huge.

I probably sit 1 1/2 metres away.

2ndclasscitizen
02-18-2008, 06:36 PM
What program was it? Just because it's new doesn't mean it's HD.

RacingManiac
02-18-2008, 06:40 PM
1080P movie is night and day better than regular def, and even 1080i/720P broadcast HD signal....most HD station in US/Canada only broadcast to 1080i, looking at those stations vs watching BD movie is pretty eye-popping.....if you can't see the difference you really shouldn't have bought HDTV...:D

Blu-Ray/HD-DVD difference is mainly going to be in higher-end audio signal. With BD-25GB disc they aren't that different, but with BD-50GB spec disc, they can afford to have full -lossless audio track with the movie, which HD-DVD is not capable of doing. If you have an audio set that can process this(with an appropreately equipped BD player, which mine isn't, nor is PS3 at the moment, though apprently it can transmit this via HDMI with proper firmware update) then it'll be the best audio/video combo available to consumer level....

Blue Supra
02-18-2008, 09:56 PM
I have HD TV and cant get a particular channel atm (just got it back from warranty shop) flicked over to regular TV and HOLY CRAP the quality is just in the gutter compared to HD TV.

Srsly Sam, get your eyes checked buddy! :p

IBrake4Rainbows
02-18-2008, 09:57 PM
Well I guess since I think you're pretty I do have some kind of Impairment.

crisis
02-18-2008, 11:15 PM
You're both blind. I sit about 7' from a 52" 1080P Mitsu DLP, and the difference from standard definition to high def is night and day.

Why did you get such a big arsed TV if you sit so close? :D
My daughter does the same.

I can notice the difference between HD and SD but my point was that until I saw HD SD digital was brilliant. So where does it end? Do we need to get it better?

crisis
02-18-2008, 11:20 PM
I have HD TV and cant get a particular channel atm (just got it back from warranty shop) flicked over to regular TV and HOLY CRAP the quality is just in the gutter compared to HD TV.

Srsly Sam, get your eyes checked buddy! :p
Regular TV compared to SD digital is the same in comparison. I still have a 20 year old antenna inside my roof under the tiles. Without the digital box it is nearly unwatchable. Now. Now that I have seen SD digital. I watched it before though!
Watching HD starts to put SD in the shadows but only by direct comparison.

fisetdavid26
02-19-2008, 02:50 AM
Whoever can't tell the difference between SDTV and HDTV shouldn't have a HDTV. Give it to me.

Wouter Melissen
02-19-2008, 03:08 AM
It's official: Toshiba Investor Relations : Toshiba to Boost Fab Capacity (http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/ir/en/news/20080219_03.htm)

NSXType-R
02-19-2008, 09:12 AM
I kinda wanted Blu Ray to win.

Maybe PS3 sales can increase now?

Street_Dreamer
02-19-2008, 09:45 AM
I kinda wanted Blu Ray to win.

Maybe PS3 sales can increase now?
They already are, my friend... They already are.

Also, people who think PS3 is crap will eat their words when good games come out :p:o, but a contributing factor as to why i got PS3 was that i knew i'd be getting an HDTV eventually and the Blu-Ray player (i was convinced) would win the battle, and cos it's cheaper than a normal blu-ray, makes double the sense. :p

NSXType-R
02-19-2008, 10:53 AM
They already are, my friend... They already are.

Also, people who think PS3 is crap will eat their words when good games come out :p:o, but a contributing factor as to why i got PS3 was that i knew i'd be getting an HDTV eventually and the Blu-Ray player (i was convinced) would win the battle, and cos it's cheaper than a normal blu-ray, makes double the sense. :p

I forgot the "anyway" at the end of that. :D

Yeah, my father and I are thinking of one. I'm planning it at the launch of GT5. It's gotta be cheaper by then anyway.

I heard Assassin's Creed is good. Metal Gear Solid has gotta be good as well. Maybe SOCOM as well? Any other good PS3 games out, for now and the future?

Street_Dreamer
02-19-2008, 11:38 AM
I forgot the "anyway" at the end of that. :D

Yeah, my father and I are thinking of one. I'm planning it at the launch of GT5. It's gotta be cheaper by then anyway.

I heard Assassin's Creed is good. Metal Gear Solid has gotta be good as well. Maybe SOCOM as well? Any other good PS3 games out, for now and the future?
Call of Duty 4 is a stunning game from what i've heard from the reviews as well as friends. GTA4 coming out soon too...

Kitdy
02-19-2008, 11:50 AM
Well I guess since I think you're pretty I do have some kind of Impairment.

Again with the unneeded capitalization.

Street_Dreamer
02-19-2008, 01:29 PM
Also, think about this:
Microsoft will need to use Blu-Ray surely. This means they will need to pay Sony good money for the rights to use Blu-Ray drives; as a result of this, Sony will end up making money on the sale of every X-Box 360 with HD compatibility... Gotta love it if you're Sony :)

fisetdavid26
02-19-2008, 02:04 PM
I forgot the "anyway" at the end of that. :D

Yeah, my father and I are thinking of one. I'm planning it at the launch of GT5. It's gotta be cheaper by then anyway.

I heard Assassin's Creed is good. Metal Gear Solid has gotta be good as well. Maybe SOCOM as well? Any other good PS3 games out, for now and the future?
GT5? The Prologue or the final version? If you're waiting for the final version of GT5 it's likely you'll buy your PS3 when Sony will announce the PS4 knowing Gran Turismo games notorious delays...

IBrake4Rainbows
02-19-2008, 04:11 PM
Again with the unneeded capitalization.

*Capitalisation ;)

We don't all speak American English. Sorry Mr. grammar nazi.

Matra et Alpine
02-19-2008, 04:14 PM
Also, think about this:
Microsoft will need to use Blu-Ray surely. This means they will need to pay Sony good money for the rights to use Blu-Ray drives; as a result of this, Sony will end up making money on the sale of every X-Box 360 with HD compatibility... Gotta love it if you're Sony :)
true ... except if the DVD drives are anything to go by it will be $5 per drive royalty and NEC or Toshiba someone will make them and get $50 :)

However, it will be interesting once the push into mainstream computers is done with BluRay as then everyoen will ahve to pay IBM, HP, Microsoft, Philips royalties ..... and I'm betting in the wash it'll be a net zero.

NSXType-R
02-19-2008, 06:10 PM
GT5? The Prologue or the final version? If you're waiting for the final version of GT5 it's likely you'll buy your PS3 when Sony will announce the PS4 knowing Gran Turismo games notorious delays...

Final most likely. The prologue is coming out soon. The final version should follow up closely.

2ndclasscitizen
02-19-2008, 06:15 PM
Call of Duty 4 is a stunning game from what i've heard from the reviews as well as friends. GTA4 coming out soon too...

Both of which are on the 360, so they won't make a difference.


Also, think about this:
Microsoft will need to use Blu-Ray surely. This means they will need to pay Sony good money for the rights to use Blu-Ray drives; as a result of this, Sony will end up making money on the sale of every X-Box 360 with HD compatibility... Gotta love it if you're Sony :)

They won't. They only ever just tacked on a HD DVD drive to 360, so I doubt they'd even bother.

fisetdavid26
02-19-2008, 06:17 PM
Final most likely. The prologue is coming out soon. The final version should follow up closely.
I was optimistic too when GT4 Prologue hit the streets.

Gran Turismo 4 Prologue: December 2, 2003 (Japan)
Gran Turismo 4: February 22, 2005 (North America)

It's a long wait :(

NSXType-R
02-19-2008, 07:08 PM
I was optimistic too when GT4 Prologue hit the streets.

Gran Turismo 4 Prologue: December 2, 2003 (Japan)
Gran Turismo 4: February 22, 2005 (North America)

It's a long wait :(

Yeah, I know what you mean. The PSP version of GT4 isn't even out yet. Hope they've learned their lesson. Besides, the PS3 came out in what, 2005? They probably started GT5 when they knew the specifics of the PS3.

*fingers crossed*

Question- Do old movies really look that great in High Definition?

2ndclasscitizen
02-19-2008, 07:17 PM
I was optimistic too when GT4 Prologue hit the streets.

Gran Turismo 4 Prologue: December 2, 2003 (Japan)
Gran Turismo 4: February 22, 2005 (North America)

It's a long wait :(

It's just over a year you giant girl, suck it up and grow a pair.


Question- Do old movies really look that great in High Definition?

Depends on a few things. What format was it originally shot on, how much remastering has been done to the negative, how has it been made into HD (re-scanned at a higher res and bit rate, or just upconverted from the SD DVD version).

fisetdavid26
02-19-2008, 07:25 PM
It's just over a year you giant girl, suck it up and grow a pair.
I do hope you're kidding. If not, relax mate.

They announced GT4 in late 2001, released a Prologue in late 2003 to help us fans wait and dropped the game in early 2005. In my book that's a long wait.

The_Canuck
02-19-2008, 08:29 PM
Still...it's only gran turismo...:p

NSXType-R
02-19-2008, 09:01 PM
Depends on a few things. What format was it originally shot on, how much remastering has been done to the negative, how has it been made into HD (re-scanned at a higher res and bit rate, or just upconverted from the SD DVD version).

I see.

I was just watching 2001: A Space Odyssey and that question popped up into my mind.

2ndclasscitizen
02-23-2008, 11:52 PM
Sony paid Warner Bros. $400 million USD to go Blu-ray exclusive (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13009.cfm)

jcp123
02-23-2008, 11:57 PM
So we were supposed to switch to DVD just a few years ago, and now we have to go to Blue Ray? No thanks. I'm not that much into movies to begin with, but Silicon Valley's intense competitiveness has led to a need for innovation and consumer product replacement that borders on what's unethical. This from someone who grew up there and whose parents worked in the tech industry - I formed the basis for this years ago, and in the three years since they retired, their perspective from the outside of the Valley looking in has brought them around to this idea as well and reinforced my disgust with high technology

Jesus christ...with that moneywaster, I'm glad I just kept my VHS's.

Kitdy
02-24-2008, 12:29 AM
We don't all speak American English.

Neither do I, I forgot how to spell it, and my Firefox spellchecker doesn't recognize the non-Us spelling.

The reason I inquire to your capatilisation is that other grammar errors are mistakes - but capatilisation takes effort. I do not understand why you are doing it.

IBrake4Rainbows
02-24-2008, 04:26 AM
It's just one of those things I suppose. when I type at work generally it's peoples names and addresses, so there proper nouns that require capilisation.

I just get used to resting my finger on the shift key and hitting it after the space. go figure.