Henk!! Matra or RB??

[willysjeep]

Hi Henk,
I am from South Africa and i admire your knowledge about classic cars. Been a forum member for some time and enjoy the reading so much i forget to post. I own some interesting and fine cars, but the 1 i want to enq, about is a car called in SA a Matra Renault Gordini. Build in 1963, raced in the Kyalami 9hr in 64. The first year the Ren R8 Gor came out.According to this forum Rene Bonnet became Matra but only in 1965. Can this be true. I know my car is a prototype of only 2 being manufactured,and both were sold after the race in SA.
I am only the second owner of the car and campained it on the track for many years before it got stolen on the trailer after a racemeeting. Got it back after 2yrs and a lot of tears in a horrible condition.
I am busy rebuilding it at the moment and will need some parts. It use the same taillights as the Matra Djet. Mine got lost in the theft but i can make a plan with a replacement pair although i would like the original set.
If you can please help me out with the data.
Regards
Basie

[henk4]

Hi,

Thanks for the compliments. Anyway it might be a Rene Bonnet Djet, as they were called before Matra took over.
Read this thread
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/classic-cars/20122-simca-1200-s-coupe.html

and you will find another member who is working on one.....perhaps you can contact him directly, he will probably know more about your car.

[bruxell]

I know this question is for Henk, but it sounds like a later Bonnet DJet, a II or III. The II used an 1108cc motor from the 8 Gordini, the very rare III used a 998cc twin-cam. there were elongated aero-jets racing in endurance events at that time as well, but all would have been built by Bonnet as far as I can tell... Don't mean to intrude, but maybe this can help?

[willysjeep]

I know this question is for Henk, but it sounds like a later Bonnet DJet, a II or III. The II used an 1108cc motor from the 8 Gordini, the very rare III used a 998cc twin-cam. there were elongated aero-jets racing in endurance events at that time as well, but all would have been built by Bonnet as far as I can tell... Don't mean to intrude, but maybe this can help?This car was bought off the grid with a 1255 Gordini engine, which, according to the old man i bought it from, was the first of these engines and was tested in this race for reliability and performance. These engines became common in the later R8 Gordinis.
As for the car. Only the rearend resembles the Djet. The car is an open seated sportscar,righthand drive,Gordini twin shock suspension and 5speed Gbox. Macnificent car. Need to scan pix to post later

[henk4]

I think it might be related to this.
I shot the car 2 years ago at Retromobile, but I haven't looked into its history. It was shown at the Matra stand, see the V12 behind the car.
Apparently, judging from the name it is a tubular chassis, participating in the 1963 sports car races, probably in the prototype class. It says it is car nr. 7005, so I presume there were at least 4 more, of which one could have been a spider as you describe.

[willysjeep]

My car has got a flat steel and alu chassis, almost the same as the VW beetle, with tubular mounts for the suspension. Front suspension is Gordini. Pedalbox is also Gordini.
There is also no resemblance between your pix and the car. The car's boby is a lot flatter and wider. The highest point on the body is at the rear over the backwheel and that is 87cm

[Matra et Alpine]

The tie up with DB, Rene Bonnet and Matra was complicated ... and then they split and Matra bought up RB. The orignal d'Jet bodywork was manufactured by Matra and supplied to RB. So it's possible you've a factory modded body.
When we see pics we might be able to be more specific and if lucky have info in Matra archives.
See Cinquantenaire 1986-10-04 (http://dbrb.free.fr/index-album.html) if any of the pics from the 50th anniversary in 1986 help.

Not sure that this pic of the crashed '63 LM6 proto will help :(

[willysjeep]

This is what the caar looks like. My age does not allow me to use the computer to its fullest performance.......:eek::D

[willysjeep]

More pix

[henk4]

that's a weirdo, certainly as it apparently has the engine behind the rear axle. I assume there is no doubt about the Matra part of the story, otherwise I would have suggested that it was based on an Alpine A108/106 chassis...

[willysjeep]

that's a weirdo, Ag nee Henk :D:D:D dis dan vir my so mooi :p:D:D

[henk4]

Ag nee Henk :D:D:D dis dan vir my so mooi :p:D:D

want me to reply in Afrikaans too? or will Dutch be enough?:D

[willysjeep]

want me to reply in Afrikaans too? or will Dutch be enough?:D You keep on surprising me Henk....from where the lingo??

[henk4]

You keep on surprising me Henk....from where the lingo??

I am Dutch....

[willysjeep]

I am Dutch....Ja, but the Afrikaans....been here in Africa??

[henk4]

Ja, but the Afrikaans....been here in Africa??

So you immediately believed I could write Afrikaans??;)

but anyway, based on the yellow/white/black colour scheme of the car, are we not talking Alpine?

[willysjeep]

So you immediately believed I could write Afrikaans??;)

but anyway, based on the yellow/white/black colour scheme of the car, are we not talking Alpine?That is the original colours in which the car was painted. That became the official Renault racing colours in 1968 in South Africa. I raced it all the time in the same colour and same paint...busy restoring it in the same colour again.

[Matra et Alpine]

yeah, I'd have said Alpine too.
The engine's definately in the wrong place for the d'Jet. So we can put that oen to bed :)

[Matra et Alpine]

Need to see some pics of the chassis/suspension/engine if we're going to be definitive.
I'm tinking more and more that it's a typical 60s crashed/rebuilt with whatever parts were aroudn and hence the odd, DB, RB, Matra, Alpine, Simca look :)

[willysjeep]

Need to see some pics of the chassis/suspension/engine if we're going to be definitive.
I'm tinking more and more that it's a typical 60s crashed/rebuilt with whatever parts were aroudn and hence the odd, DB, RB, Matra, Alpine, Simca look :)
I will post pix of the undercarraige as soon possible. I am currently running a Ren R5 1400 engine in it in order to save the Gordini engine, which is very scarce and expensive in South Africa. The G eng is mothballed.
There were 2 cars in the package that was sold off the track in the 60's as well as 2 complete bodies. The bodies only use 6 butterfly nuts to secure and can be removed in seconds. You only need to remove the steeringwheel, loosen 2 electrical plugs and the speedo and revcounter cables. The body is only a 1 piece unit.

I doubt the fact that this is a car put together from other cars pieces, if you look at the abovementioned.The second car was made roadworthy and because it was so low to the ground it was apparently been destroyed in a bus accident.One of the bodies was converted into a mid engined Volvo race car of which i also have a pic, that i will post.This car also did well in the Clubmans circuit in the late 70's and early 80's.

The last body i tracked down in Durban SA. The guy fitted it to a VW chassis and made a buggy out of it. All the instrumentation dissappeared.The last time that i've seen this buggy was in 1980.

[Matra et Alpine]

hmmm, one piece body now has me thinking kit car.
A body-off pic can readily confirm.
Still searching my French sports/racing car archives --- sadly most of them are books/mags :( So can take a while.

[henk4]

BTW Willys, is there any visible reference to the word MATRA anywhere on the car?

[Matra et Alpine]

even more so the FIA papers used whilst racing ?
THey should have all the details on manufacturer.

[willysjeep]

even more so the FIA papers used whilst racing ?
THey should have all the details on manufacturer.When i bought the car it was registered under SA Clubmans regs as a Matra Renault end the name came over to the classics regs as well. The manuf plate saus Renault and is mounted on the chassis.
I dont think there were kitcars in 1964

Here is the pic on the Volvo car

[henk4]

Here is the pic on the Volvo car

looks like the most unsafe Volvo in history...
but again does it say: Matra somewhere on your car?

[willysjeep]

No, only the Reno Plate,and that is only a chassis number

[henk4]

No, only the Reno Plate,and that is only a chassis number

hm, so no real proof of a Matra provenance...might have been conveniently added at a later stage, but maybe M&A will dig up something from the dungeons of French Clubsport archives.

[willysjeep]

There was a stage that i was thinking the Matra side was added because directly from the back, the rearend[back panel] resembles the Djet. But then nobody in SA at that time was supposed to know the Djet. Even today i dont think theres an example in SA
We are waiting for M&A

[Matra et Alpine]

am going to need some body off chassis pics as much detail as possible.
Am afriand I think this might be a one off produced kit around Renault running gear.
Can't find ANY references in Matra hsitoric archives of any race cars of that style.
Am back to thinking kit, possibly body over a single seater perhaps.
Will keep looking blindly, but the chassis woudl give clear pointers to the provenance.

[willysjeep]

it will take some time, but i will send those pix soonest ;)

[roy4matra]

There was a stage that I was thinking the Matra side was added because directly from the back, the rear end [back panel] resembles the Djet. But then nobody in SA at that time was supposed to know the Djet. Even today I dont think theres an example in SA
We are waiting for M&A

Yes there is a Matra Djet in SA. Peter Bishton in Jo'burg has one. Only just heard about it myself and he should be joining our club (Matra Enthusiasts Club UK) soon so I should find out a bit more.

Roy

[willysjeep]

Yes there is a Matra Djet in SA. Peter Bishton in Jo'burg has one. Only just heard about it myself and he should be joining our club (Matra Enthusiasts Club UK) soon so I should find out a bit more.

Roy
Hi Roy
Apparently there is a Djet in Potchefstroom in the Northwest province as well. I found that out through the SaMusclecar forum. I am still busy backtracking to see if i can find the car and to see if its for sale or not. Would love to have one but i think i'm too big for the car. I battle to fit into my Gordini. But still.........