Mother looses kids due to swastika... [Archive]

roosterjuicer

07-11-2008, 10:24 AM

FOXNews.com - Mother Loses Kids After Sending Daughter to School With Swastika Drawn on Arm - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,380741,00.html)

Interesting story. Here's my take. The mother is a retard and obviously has some issues but I dont think someones political/social/whatever beliefs are grounds to take their children away. As long and the children are fed and not neglected they shouldn't be taken away. Swastika's and that kind of stuff dont belong at school but what you do and believe in your own home is your own business. If you want to raise your kids Catholic, Jewish, hindu, muslim, white supremacist, black supremacist, speaking multiple languages, asian, black, white, hispanic or anything in between thats your right as a parent whether or not the state agree's with it.

What if the parents had black panthers stuff or some other "kill whitey" thing going on. Would their children be taken away? Doubtful.

Sometimes you gotta stand up for what is right even when its not easy. Its easy to support civil rights when people are on the right side of an issue, but the constitution cuts both ways and people on both right and wrong deserve the same civil rights.

Thats my take. Whats yours?

Kitdy

07-11-2008, 11:12 AM

Sometimes you gotta stand up for what is right even when its not easy. Its easy to support civil rights when people are on the right side of an issue, but the constitution cuts both ways and people on both right and wrong deserve the same civil rights.

"The constitution" in this case is Canadian however.

As an aside, far-right white nationalists have hijacked the Canadian Red Ensign - our unofficial flag previous to 1965 as a symbol of their movement and the European heritage of Canada. This deeply saddens me as this is the flag that our WWI and WWII veterans fought under and still holds a deep meaning to many of them. I also think it is a very beautiful flag.

See below.

teatako

07-11-2008, 11:33 AM

so, what does the canadian constitution say on the matter?

The_Canuck

07-11-2008, 11:56 AM

I heard that it wasn't actually a Nazi symbol, but a left turned swastika which means many other things...could be a rumour though.

Ah nvm this article is updated, apparently it was a nazi swastika, what a whackjob.

And rooster, no you can't raise your kids to be supremacists because that is just retarded.

Kitdy

07-11-2008, 12:09 PM

so, what does the canadian constitution say on the matter?

I am not sure it covers this specifically actually - I think it might be left to the laws.

EDIT: If someone were to pass a law stating that extremists indoctrinating their views on children was illegal, would this be unconstitutional? I am not sure that anything in the constitution provides for this.

The_Canuck

07-11-2008, 12:12 PM

It would fall under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, not the constitution.

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

However there are clauses which state if your beliefs negatively effect others......

Kitdy

07-11-2008, 12:20 PM

It would fall under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, not the constitution.

However there are clauses which state if your beliefs negatively effect others......

Isn't the Charter of Rights and Freedoms part of the constitution?

Anyways, nowhere does it guarantee your right to instill racist beliefs on your children.

mclaren_crazy

07-11-2008, 01:48 PM

As a proud Jew who lost many of their family in the Holocaust, things like this are very hard to look at neutrally. The way I view it is that by all means teach your children what you want in your home, your the one screwing them up for life, but it is wrong to send your children out, especially to a school with things that you know are intentionally hurtful to others.

bruxell

07-11-2008, 02:44 PM

[QUOTE=The_Canuck;818706]I heard that it wasn't actually a Nazi symbol, but a left turned swastika which means many other things...could be a rumour though.QUOTE]

Just to point out: UNtil the rise of the Nazi movement in the 1930s the Swastika did indeed have many connotations, but the direction of the arms largely didn't. It's just that the Nazis picked a direction for their flag, and that's the one with negative memories attached to it.

bruxell

07-11-2008, 02:46 PM

Isn't the Charter of Rights and Freedoms part of the constitution?

Anyways, nowhere does it guarantee your right to instill racist beliefs on your children.

I would say it does, it just doesn't give you the right to send a child to school with an indetifying mark that may have negative consequinces for the child.

The_Canuck

07-11-2008, 03:33 PM

Isn't the Charter of Rights and Freedoms part of the constitution?

Anyways, nowhere does it guarantee your right to instill racist beliefs on your children.

I think it is seperate, the constitution has more to do with the roles of the various levels of government.

It sorta does, until it affects others.

Viper007

07-11-2008, 04:02 PM

I'd really like to know what people get from white supremacy. When has it ever helped someone in a life changing manner? I'm glad they took her kids.

Rockefella

07-11-2008, 05:08 PM

While I believe in legal terms it may be unconstitutional to take the kids away, in the end it's got to be for the better. Staying neutral on the matters of swastikas, a mother has to be an absolute whackjob if she sends her kids to school of all places with a symbol that incites much negativity. Doing it at home is one thing, but to spread your beliefs through children and not think any of it isn't a good environment for these kids to mature in.

pimp_squeak

07-11-2008, 06:05 PM

I'm glad the kids got taken away, but I certainly don't think it's "right". In my eyes it's no different from christian parents teaching their children their beliefs, and sending them to school wearing "WWJD" clothing...I don't see much of a difference between the holocaust and the crusades, aside from the time between them....

SlickHolden

07-11-2008, 06:26 PM

Sounds like a religion thing, I don't have any type of religion don't believe in them don't think about them..
In many ways it's one of them more whack jobs ones.
But is it grounds to remove kids?.

In today's day and age many things offend us, Many words set off emotions we have that relate to past things..
Right or wrong i still don't see how children can be removed unless they are in danger and miss treated, No matter the nut job they call parents unless you have true reason to believe the children are in some type of danger and not treated right you can't remove them.

Or else you could remove all Jehovah Whiteness Children from there family's because they are not allowed to sing national anthems attend birthdays Xmas party's etc etc etc.

deffenbaugh03

07-11-2008, 07:43 PM

[QUOTE=roosterjuicer;818697]If you want to raise your kids Catholic, Jewish, hindu, muslim, white supremacist, black supremacist, speaking multiple languages, asian, black, white, hispanic or anything in between thats your right as a parent whether or not the state agree's with it.
[QUOTE]

There's nothing wrong with raising your kids to be catholic, jewish, hindu, muslim but I don't understand how you can say that parents raising their children to be racist is okay. Kid's minds are delicate things, they'll believe whatever you tell them is right. What do you think is a major factor for having racism still exist? A good deal of it is because kids are raised in a home where their parents don't teach them that racism is wrong.

Street_Dreamer

07-12-2008, 01:01 AM

I think this is terrible and i'm glad she had her children taken away, purely because growing up with religions 99.9% of the time don't end up with the child being taught to hurt other people (until these religions' rules are twisted by 'extremists' - who clearly don't know that suicide and murder lead to hell in Islam, for instance).
On the contrary, growing up a Nazi will instantly alienate the child and cause a deep-felt resentment towards ethnic groups, others of religious beliefs or sexualities, etc and will incite hatred and pain.

clutch-monkey

07-12-2008, 01:17 AM

imo you can raise your kids how you want as long as it doesn't negatively effect others or the children themselves are not twisted/effected... in this case they may well have been.

NSXType-R

07-12-2008, 01:55 PM

Wow, that mother is retarded.

You'd get your ass kicked within two seconds of walking into any school.

That's just not smart. You can believe what you want to believe, but you can't just do whatever you want.

And besides, you have to respect others, even if what they believe doesn't agree with what you think is acceptable.

I think this goes under obscenity, which is why the mother lost the kid. It is obscene because it interferes with the general public in some way. Of course, I am looking at it from an American law viewpoint. Not sure about Canada. And, I am an absolute amateur in law. Absolutely hate it, but I must know it.

pimp_squeak

07-13-2008, 09:36 AM

On the contrary, growing up a Nazi will instantly alienate the child and cause a deep-felt resentment towards ethnic groups, others of religious beliefs or sexualities, etc and will incite hatred and pain.

Do you really think that christian/muslim/catholic/any other religion hatred of homosexuality is any different from....race based racism?? Human rights are for everyone, not just the people you think are right.

Street_Dreamer

07-13-2008, 03:09 PM

Do you really think that christian/muslim/catholic/any other religion hatred of homosexuality is any different from....race based racism?? Human rights are for everyone, not just the people you think are right.Many don't possess a hatred for homosexuality, but rather the act of sodomy... (I don't speak for everyone, just one of the opinions of most people i know. The irony is, the most homophobic few people i know are actually atheist. :p )

pimp_squeak

07-13-2008, 04:22 PM

Many don't possess a hatred for homosexuality, but rather the act of sodomy... (I don't speak for everyone, just one of the opinions of most people i know. The irony is, the most homophobic few people i know are actually atheist. :p )

I know a lot of fairly religious people who enjoy sodomy (in a normal relationship of course), and while I'm not atheist but agnostic, I harbour no malice or hold the practice, or homosexuality in low regard...many close friends of mine are gay.

Any way you cut it, many religious people are just as racist as nazis, just without the deathcamps.

JorisP

07-13-2008, 11:06 PM

ruim20

07-14-2008, 01:55 AM

Over here in Portugal the kid would just have to clean is arm and i'm sure the mother would be spoken to. Also, the exibition of religious symbols is proihibited, you cannot wear crosses on the outside or your head covered as in muslim cultures, being atheist i don't really give a c**p to what ppl put in there heads or necks.

In this case the mother most probably suffers from brainwashe desease and really as no clear idea of what the swastika means in modern society, wonce a simbol of peace and serenity it now has become a symbol of evil and racism.

roosterjuicer

07-14-2008, 07:56 AM

Human rights are for everyone, not just the people you think are right.

My thoughts exactly.

deffenbaugh03

07-14-2008, 09:06 AM

Yes everyone deserves human rights, even those who you think are wrong, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Should mass murderers have the right to kill people and be free? When you begin to harm other people certain rights of yours should be taken away.

roosterjuicer

07-14-2008, 09:39 AM

I agree, the ole' "your right to swing your fist stops at the other man's face".

So i suppose the issue here is, wether or not the lady is causing the kind of harm where rights should be taken away.

We all agree the mom is an idiot. But its not illegal to be an idiot. The mom needs a stern talking to about writing the swastika on the girls arm and the kid should not be allowed on school property with anything like that drawn on her but the bottom line is that no matter how stupid she is and how "right" it seems to take her kid away because she's raising her wrong its not actually right and i dont believe its legal. As soon as this thing goes to court (and there arent some other neglect/abuse/ect... issues) she's getting her child back I can almost guarantee it. Unless the canadian constitution and legal system is waaay different than ours.

deffenbaugh03

07-14-2008, 10:23 AM

roosterjuicer

07-14-2008, 10:31 AM

Fair enough. Nobody is perfect but I believe certain people (really all people just for good measure) should be denied the right to have kids until they complete some type of parenting school

Thats a completely different can of worms. Personally i think people should be denied the right to have kids if they cant afford kids. Having a child costs just as much as buying a really nice car or decent house but you dont have to get pre approved to have a kid haha.

But just because i think it doesn't mean its right or legal.

VtecMini

07-14-2008, 11:43 AM

What about that wacky american christian family that teach their kids that homosexual people are going to get us all sent to hell and teach them to parade around with boards that say "god hates fags"? Have they had their kids removed? And if not, why not?

I know it's a different country, obviously, but it's pretty similar ground morally, imho.

pimp_squeak

07-16-2008, 01:42 PM