View Full Version : Aussie SUV Culture?
f6fhellcat13
08-16-2008, 12:53 PM
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the austrailian suv culture like? Does everbody think they're a herder form the outback so they drive mostrous suvs, like in USA with cowboy pickups and suvs? And I've noticed that ford austalia and holden make a good number of rwd sedans. In america the rwd sedan mosltydied out because starting in the 80s the big three started converting their rwd saloon plants to rwd/awd suv plants. Do ford or holden make any suvs? or are all the suvs in australia foreign?
on a side note with gas prices rising the big three are considering changing back from making suvs to rwd cars YAY! :D:D:D
Ferrer
08-16-2008, 12:59 PM
Ford Territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Territory)
Australian SUV.
f6fhellcat13
08-16-2008, 02:18 PM
Thank You for the info :)
NSXType-R
08-16-2008, 03:18 PM
They like Utes. They prefer that over SUVs. It's like an El Camino, a car with a truck bed that's lower than a general pickup. Monaro and Ford make them I think. Forgot their names though.
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the austrailian suv culture like? Does everbody think they're a herder form the outback so they drive mostrous suvs, like in USA with cowboy pickups and suvs? And I've noticed that ford austalia and holden make a good number of rwd sedans. In america the rwd sedan mosltydied out because starting in the 80s the big three started converting their rwd saloon plants to rwd/awd suv plants. Do ford or holden make any suvs? or are all the suvs in australia foreign?
Most SUVs here are japanese (eg Landcuiser, Nissan Patrol etc) and the only American-sourced ones sold locally are Jeeps and Hummer H3 because no other US SUVs are built in r/h/d.
Regrettably the SUV culture is quite popular here, especially so in urban areas. This is because urban males like the romantic idea, and masculine ownership aura, of trekking off to remote outback locales - but never accomplish this because of the kids, job commitments and such. So they mainly just ponce about in the suburbs.
Likewise urban mums love the quasi-feminist empowerment an SUV offers, including that 'commanding' driving position which gives such an air of invincibility for when you're monstering other motorists during the school-run, or cutting them off in supermarket carparks etc.
During the 1970s there were Holden and Falcon 4x4s (long before the 'SUV' name was imposed) and although a few were sold, sadly not enough to reach 'critcal mass' production. In more recent times Holden also made a few interesting AWD Commodore variants, including Adventra which was basically a raised-ride-height, raised-roof wagon (still with IRS) a-la Volvo X70, plus an AWD Crewman ute and the terrific Commodore Cross-6 trayback (2-seater) ute. Btw HSV also made an impressive albeit expensive performance-oriented AWD Monaro (your GTO). None of them sold terribly well and Holden no longer build AWD vehicles, due to GM-NA apparently raping $300M from Holden's self-funded Zeta development budget, to ameliorate ever-mounting GM-NA $$ losses.
While Adventra was generally regarded as a sales flop against the well-conceived Ford Territory, I notice Adventra resale has held up surprisingly well. Which in a way is a pity imo because it otherwise would make for an interesting and vesatile 2nd-hand buy - especially the potent LS1 V8 version.
Here's an Adventra road test :)
AutoWeb - New Car Test - Holden Adventra (http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_2003/title_New-Car-Test-Holden-Adventra/article.html)
on a side note with gas prices rising the big three are considering changing back from making suvs to rwd cars YAY! :D:D:D
on an even more sideways note I hear that GM were going from SUV to rwd cars as you say, but due to worsening fuel concerns are now mostly ditching rwd and going back to fwd!
blingbling
08-16-2008, 04:13 PM
seriously, is there idiots with money in australia?
unfortunately, like in many developed countries, the answer is yes
so yeah, there probably is a vibrant "outback herder" mentality in the "SUV culture" slash community
i wish i had a button that converted all SUVs into a toyota prius or a honda insight, that'd be so damn funny
or a button that converted all ricers into rovers or stock corollas
ozzycarnut
08-16-2008, 05:09 PM
They like Utes. They prefer that over SUVs. It's like an El Camino, a car with a truck bed that's lower than a general pickup. Monaro and Ford make them I think. Forgot their names though.
the main breed of ute that we go after is holden's s/sv6/ss commodore utes, and ford's falcon xr6/xr8 utes. imo, toyota produce far better quality utes, v6 sr5 hilux extra cab etc, but dont really have the pose value of an ss ute. hsv and fpv both make hipo versions of the utes, which as far as i'm aware, make the fastest utes in the world, think hsv maloo R8 before you attempt to shoot me down ..... (http://www.caradvice.com.au/9102/2008-hsv-maloo-review/) :D
f6fhellcat13
08-16-2008, 05:11 PM
on an even more sideways note I hear that GM were going from SUV to rwd cars as you say, but due to worsening fuel concerns are now mostly ditching rwd and going back to fwd!
NOOOOOO!!!!!:mad:
coolieman1220
08-16-2008, 05:11 PM
gas prices arn't rising anymoreeeeee! $3.69 for 93 in Jersey!
NSXType-R
08-16-2008, 05:12 PM
the main breed of ute that we go after is holden's s/sv6/ss commodore utes, and ford's falcon xr6/xr8 utes. imo, toyota produce far better quality utes, v6 sr5 hilux extra cab etc, but dont really have the pose value of an ss ute. hsv and fpv both make hipo versions of the utes, which as far as i'm aware, make the fastest utes in the world, think hsv maloo R8 before you attempt to shoot me down ..... (http://www.caradvice.com.au/9102/2008-hsv-maloo-review/) :D
Yeah, those were the two cars I was referring to. The names slipped my mind though, because it's not like I regularly see those cars anyway. I'm a bit far away from Australia. :D
ozzycarnut
08-16-2008, 05:13 PM
seriously, is there idiots with money in australia?
unfortunately, like in many developed countries, the answer is yes
so yeah, there probably is a vibrant "outback herder" mentality in the "SUV culture" slash community
i wish i had a button that converted all SUVs into a toyota prius or a honda insight, that'd be so damn funny
or a button that converted all ricers into rovers or stock corollas
well yes, yes there are. alot of people with alot of money in fact. as far as idiots go, i feel this term may be best at describing the learned individual that slags off a country he does not reside in nor evidently has any knowledge of ...... ;)
This is because urban males like the romantic idea, and masculine ownership aura, of trekking off to remote outback locales - but never accomplish this because of the kids, job commitments and such. So they mainly just ponce about in the suburbs.
And here I was thinking it was because you could fit more people and crap into them.
And here I was thinking it was because you could fit more people and crap into them.
I'll let you be the judge...
Ford Falcon BFIII wagon
The current Falcon wagon offers no less than 1254 litres of cargo space before the rear seats are folded. The Falcon's rear seats-down capacity is a whopping 2584 litres with the length to match it.
Toyota Landcruiser 200 V8 wagon
Luggage capacity varies from 259 litres with the third row of seats in place to 701 when they're stowed. Fold the second row and space rises to more than 1,265 litres
clutch-monkey
08-16-2008, 07:55 PM
i've noticed the toyota kluger is about the same size as the landcruiser used to be. and the landcruiser is larger than most trawlers
soccer mum's in X5's and those stupid honda MDX's are not uncommon.
fpv_gtho
08-16-2008, 08:53 PM
the main breed of ute that we go after is holden's s/sv6/ss commodore utes, and ford's falcon xr6/xr8 utes. imo, toyota produce far better quality utes, v6 sr5 hilux extra cab etc, but dont really have the pose value of an ss ute.
Toyota dont make utes, they make pickup trucks like the rest of the world. A ute is car based, and IIRC the only one in production other than the Falcon and Commodore ute is the Proton Jumbuck.
Does everbody think they're a herder form the outback so they drive mostrous suvs, like in USA with cowboy pickups and suvs?
Theres likely to be a few, but from what ive seen theres far more people going around in Falcon or Commodore utes with chrome bullbars, massive mudflaps, multiple driving lights and the car littered in stickers such as R M Williams and "Real Aussies drive utes".
Since the Territory went on sale in 2005 theyve become littered all over the place, and the inevitable has happened where quite a few tools now own them. They handle better than the rear live axled, leaf sprung Falcon wagon though and like most soft roaders are about 200mm lower than youre genuine Landcruiser/Patrol type 4x4.
f6fhellcat13
08-16-2008, 09:00 PM
So what ive gathered is that all australian domestic Suvs are some sort of crossovers be it utes or unibody suvs.
EDIT: btw props for having some awesome rwd cars
acfsambo
08-17-2008, 12:38 AM
Ford Territory
Ford Australia - Territory Home (http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1137384156002&pagename=Page&c=DFYPage)
Holden Captiva
Holden Australia - Large Cars: Captiva (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/vehicleentry?vehicleid=30)
Toyota Kluger/ Prado/Rav4
Nissan Dualis, Murano, X-Trail, Pathfinder
Mazda CX7, CX9
Mitsubishi Outlander
Roentgen
08-17-2008, 01:17 AM
Is it just me, or is there something quite weird about some Holden or Ford utes?
The Ford Falcon ute, and the Holden Commodore ute (not sure of their actual names, but hope you understand what I'm trying to get at!), are quite low, much like their sedan counterparts, unlike, for example, the Toyota Hilux, which is raised, so it can go offroad.
These cars are also very popular in NZ, and I personally just don't see the point of them.
clutch-monkey
08-17-2008, 01:34 AM
Is it just me, or is there something quite weird about some Holden or Ford utes?
The Ford Falcon ute, and the Holden Commodore ute (not sure of their actual names, but hope you understand what I'm trying to get at!), are quite low, much like their sedan counterparts, unlike, for example, the Toyota Hilux, which is raised, so it can go offroad.
These cars are also very popular in NZ, and I personally just don't see the point of them.
how many hiluxes actually go offroad? or just...haul parts and equipment to building sites. kind of like what a falcon/commo ute can do.
fpv_gtho
08-17-2008, 05:29 AM
Again its largely because a HiLux and such is still youre typical pickup style body, rather than being car based like a ute. The normal 4x2 models arent that different in height other than being alot more upright in their seating positions to get more load space. Its only the high ride 4x2 and 4x4 versions with significantly more ride height than a ute. The last few years have seen a bit of a change with most Japanese utes changing from perhaps a 4x2 biased bodyheight to a 4x4 biased height.
SlickHolden
08-17-2008, 09:34 AM
IF you going off road, You would only buy something like a Landcrusier..
But running around a farm, Is nothing for a Holden/Ford Ute.. They go into the city, They go into the country, They go everywhere, Except hill climbing off road stuff, And there isnt many ute/Pick-up types that do that here, If any?.
2 years ago, All you seen was SUV types getting around, Today i think the numbers are smaller, What shits me is, And i am not trying to be offensive, But women driving them, Not just mothers etc, But women that can't see over the steering wheel, Get over confident and feel invincible, And they will barge past through anything, That is pissing me off. I'm sick of them.
And anyway, There is nothing to prove SUV's are safer then a Falcon/Commodore really..
Today's advances in safety has come along way, You would be as safe in something like the formers cars mentioned, As you would in yesterdays tanks.
f6fhellcat13
08-17-2008, 01:20 PM
2 years ago, All you seen was SUV types getting around, Today i think the numbers are smaller, What shits me is, And i am not trying to be offensive, But women driving them, Not just mothers etc, But women that can't see over the steering wheel, Get over confident and feel invincible, And they will barge past through anything, That is pissing me off. I'm sick of them.
Nota hits the nail on the head:
Likewise urban mums love the quasi-feminist empowerment an SUV offers, including that 'commanding' driving position which gives such an air of invincibility for when you're monstering other motorists during the school-run, or cutting them off in supermarket carparks etc.
Are utes unibodies?
and do they offer any gains in performance and fuel econ over a comparable traditional more off-road capable pickup?
Is it just me, or is there something quite weird about some Holden or Ford utes?
In terms of styling yes, i think I know what you mean. THe el camino has the cab and bed blended together
http://www.tremek.com/gallery/data/503/medium/0702ch_01_z_1970_chevrolet_el_camino_ss_.jpg
whereas a ute seems to have the cab and bed attached separately so that many things can be switched out for the bed, but it spoils the looks.
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/australia-new-zealand/2394d1056815470-new-hi-ride-falcon-ute-hi-ute.jpg
EDIT: it seems this only applies to the ford utes the holden one has a blended bed and cab
acfsambo
08-17-2008, 06:22 PM
The New Falcon Ute can be optioned as a Cab Chassis or a Sidebox style. The Cab Chassis has the front of a normal Falcon while the back is a tray. The Sidebox style is where it is the cab and tray in one.
Ford Australia - Falcon Ute Home (http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1178841241685&pagename=FOA%2FDFYPage%2FFullwidth1024&c=DFYPage)
SlickHolden
08-18-2008, 12:17 AM
Nota hits the nail on the head:
Nota was being kinder.
Our utes are still very unique to us..
And i think they look Mickey Mouse:D.
http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2008/05/09/Ford-FG-Falcon-XR84_L_700.jpg
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc155/sswsp/vessute_003_sd.jpg
crisis
08-18-2008, 12:30 AM
Just a few I had hanging around :p
acfsambo
08-18-2008, 12:33 AM
Just a few I had hanging around :p
Would some of those happen to be on Frasier Island?
clutch-monkey
08-18-2008, 12:35 AM
oh god not frasier island... it is a nice place.. but might as well call it retirement village island.
crisis
08-18-2008, 12:37 AM
Would some of those happen to be on Frasier Island?
First one is Sheringa Beach West Coast South Australia, second is just west of Elliston West Coast South Australia, 3rd 4th and 6th are Salt Creek, Coorong South Australia, and the 5th one is Hallet lower mid North South Australia (private farm land).
2ndclasscitizen
08-18-2008, 12:42 AM
As good as utes are, you can't get a normal-sized motorbike into the tray length ways and get the tailgate up, which is a bit of a fail IMHO.
fpv_gtho
08-18-2008, 04:44 AM
this Holden van & ute model-series ('71~84) had a separate chassis additional to the passenger-car unibody, very tough old buggers
Wasnt the HQ-HZ era Kingswood still somewhat BoF? The one i saw at the wreckers the other day had full length chassis rails under the body and ive read elsewhere that era were supposed to have front and rear BoF subframes.
acfsambo
08-18-2008, 05:26 AM
oh god not frasier island... it is a nice place.. but might as well call it retirement village island.
Ever hiked it?
f6fhellcat13
08-18-2008, 10:42 AM
As good as utes are, you can't get a normal-sized motorbike into the tray length ways and get the tailgate up, which is a bit of a fail IMHO.
How much can they haul in the bed and how much can they tow?
clutch-monkey
08-18-2008, 03:44 PM
Ever hiked it?
nope, not had the chance unfortunately. never got past all the geriatrics with their restricted license, pulling out across traffic and turning right on round abouts. if i go back it will be by boat.
2ndclasscitizen
08-18-2008, 07:53 PM
How much can they haul in the bed and how much can they tow?
Towing they're about 1.5 tons, and about 800kg in the back. But to get a sportsbike in the bed lengthways the rear wheel has to sit on the tray (this is in a BA XR6) Although the HSV Maloo can only take like 500kg in the tray because of the sports suspension.
fpv_gtho
08-18-2008, 08:24 PM
The tray back ones like the current Falcon utes and the previous VZ commodore one tonner can take about 1200kg payload and between 2300-2500kg towing. Thats mainly because of the stiffer rear frame section.
Wasnt the HQ-HZ era Kingswood still somewhat BoF? The one i saw at the wreckers the other day had full length chassis rails under the body and ive read elsewhere that era were supposed to have front and rear BoF subframes.
You're right, somewhat Bof while retaining a 'somewhat' unitary residual. Other HQ-HZs had a front subframe while ute/van extended this full-length. Btw I once helped a mate erect a carport built using two HQ-wrecker ute chassis for walls :D and while the removed bodies still felt pretty strong they obviously had no suspension mounts or subframe. I was going ok in that post until that very last sentence (damn that last VB!) so will now delete. Anyway apologies and thanks fpv for pointing that out :)
Although the HSV Maloo can only take like 500kg in the tray because of the sports suspension.
I think thats mainly due to tyre-load restrictions from the low profile performance-oriented rubber
Btw pre-98 Falcon utes were unitary throughout yet had an (optional) one-ton capacity
SlickHolden
08-18-2008, 10:05 PM
Can't both utes now tow over 2100kg?. That pressing 3000kg all up, That's pretty good for what they are.
fpv_gtho
08-18-2008, 11:55 PM
You're right, somewhat Bof while retaining a 'somewhat' unitary residual. Other HQ-HZs had a front subframe while ute/van extended this full-length. Btw I once helped a mate erect a carport built using two HQ-wrecker ute chassis for walls :D and while the removed bodies still felt pretty strong they obviously had no suspension mounts or subframe. I was going ok in that post until that very last sentence (damn that last VB!) so will now delete. Anyway apologies and thanks fpv for pointing that out :)
I'm still somewhat confused on which models had which myself. Obviously the one tonners were full length seperate chassis, but i was sure the sedans at least were just subframed. The sedan i saw at the wreckers the other day though seemed to be full length as well. The front end was exposed and showed the frame, but when i stuck my head under the side there still seemed to be seperate rails running alongside the door sills underneath and up to the rear suspension.
I think thats mainly due to tyre-load restrictions from the low profile performance-oriented rubber
Thats also largely why the performance Ford utes are similarly limited to about 500kg payload, despite similar spring layout to their 1.2 tonne brethren. The Holden utes ranging from only 700-500kg possibly doesnt get as much attention with the drop in rating.
Can't both utes now tow over 2100kg?. That pressing 3000kg all up, That's pretty good for what they are.
Not sure if the Holden utes can tow that much now, before IIRC it was only the one tonner and Crewman which could do maximum 2500kg although all Falcons can do 2300kg. Unibody SUV's typically are only rated at 2500kg as well.
acfsambo
08-19-2008, 02:24 AM
The Falcon Ute can tow 1600kg (Auto) and 1200kg (Manual) and can Get a 2300kg tow bar in Auto. Max payload for the 1-tonne ute is 1500kg while the sport utes are 500 to 700 kg.
Max payload for the 1-tonne ute is 1500kg
VB strikes again? ;)
its 1240 kg for bare Falcon cab/chassis (ie no tray) or 1075 kg with styleside box
Ford Australia - Falcon Ute Specifications & Options (http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1178840166767&pagename=Page&c=DFYPage)
acfsambo
08-19-2008, 05:47 AM
VB strikes again? ;)
its 1240 kg for bare Falcon cab/chassis (ie no tray) or 1075 kg with styleside box
Ford Australia - Falcon Ute Specifications & Options (http://www.ford.com.au/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1178840166767&pagename=Page&c=DFYPage)
Looked at the wrong figure.
SlickHolden
08-20-2008, 12:13 AM
Not sure if the Holden utes can tow that much now, before IIRC it was only the one tonner and Crewman which could do maximum 2500kg although all Falcons can do 2300kg. Unibody SUV's typically are only rated at 2500kg as well.
I think your spot on, Could only find 1600kg. Couldn't find anything larger?.
fpv_gtho
08-20-2008, 09:34 AM
its 1240 kg for bare Falcon cab/chassis (ie no tray) or 1075 kg with styleside box
Thats still also without driver, so unless youre on the lighter side of the scales, it'll only be a genuine one tonner unless you can get a relatively light tray on the cab chassis.
blingbling
08-24-2008, 10:19 PM
well yes, yes there are. alot of people with alot of money in fact. as far as idiots go, i feel this term may be best at describing the learned individual that slags off a country he does not reside in nor evidently has any knowledge of ...... ;)you must have been completely deaf to the tone of my post
i was generalizing australia with every developed nation in the world, of which i live in part of. there are alot of idiots with money in these locations. please dont be insecure i was not dissing australia. it (melbourne, sydney) is one of the few places east of the prime meridian i would love to live in
SlickHolden
08-25-2008, 12:07 AM
I must admit, I didn't hear your post either j/k's:D..
Falcon500
08-25-2008, 07:46 AM
Toyota dont make utes, they make pickup trucks like the rest of the world. A ute is car based, and IIRC the only one in production other than the Falcon and Commodore ute is the Proton Jumbuck.
Look up bakkies from south africa small utes mostly datsun 1200 utes which are still being made in a very similar guise and going for a converted 13k ish brand new still with a carbie fed a14 no less! other then that there are very few people in the world that like our popular sport utility vehicles.
f6fhellcat13
08-25-2008, 01:50 PM
When I was in Israel last year i saw a small pickup that vaguely resembled a ute.:confused: they were realtively common. anyone know what it is? maybe GT1Street?:)
fpv_gtho
08-25-2008, 06:52 PM
Couldve been a Commodore ute badged as a Chev, Holden import alot of cars into the Middle East and whilst that doesnt necessarily mean Israel, it wouldnt be too hard to get one from Dubai for example.
Other than that, they get pretty crazy with modifying LandCruisers over there as well, and it couldve just been a 'Cruiser wagon with the rear end cut out. The pickup model for the Landcruiser is a different design to the normal model.
f6fhellcat13
08-25-2008, 06:57 PM
it seemed smaller than I expected Commo ute to be but your probably right, i didnt pay it too much notice.
clutch-monkey
08-25-2008, 07:24 PM
it wasn't a proton jumbuck or whatever it's called?
crisis
08-27-2008, 05:15 PM
Other uses for large fuel guzzling road hogging 4 wheel drives.
f6fhellcat13
08-27-2008, 07:30 PM
you could probably put that stuff in a wagon... :p
whiteballz
08-27-2008, 08:29 PM
or.. you know. a van.
crisis
08-28-2008, 12:35 AM
you could probably put that stuff in a wagon... :p
or.. you know. a van.
Sure, Can you suggest me one of either that will do this
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/chris80857/28012008.jpg
and this
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/chris80857/DSCN5763.jpg
and perhaps be able to ferry around 8 of my daughters mates to various bands and social activities or 8 of us to the footy?
and serve as a daily driver as well.
clutch-monkey
08-28-2008, 12:41 AM
yep.
three WRC sti's :D
fpv_gtho
08-28-2008, 06:04 AM
crisis, youre arguing points for 4WD's which are only utilised by 5% of their owners. Take out the off-road aspect and any wagon or van/mini van would suffice.
charged
08-28-2008, 06:44 AM
Im with you Crisis, people say to me all the time about having a 4wd and being a evil enviromental vandal and frankly Ive had a gutful having to justify my choice of transport. but if you do abit of offroading ,tow stuff race car/skiboat/fishingboat... try pulling a 1 1/2 ton boat up a slippery ramp with a minivan or even a ute, it cant be done boys:eek: you need a 4wd. My 4wd on lpg burns cleaner than 90% of the car that are owned in the Aussie thread plus its costs me $40 dollars a week to run.:) My brother has a gas analyser at his work and I bet I will be cleaner than most of the cars in the Aussie forum......:)
Plus I love tailgating cars and feeling superior in my 4WD*:D
* Personally I would prefer a XR6T but my wife wears the pants in my family and she likes being up high:o
Quote:
Originally Posted by fpv_gtho
crisis, youre arguing points for 4WD's which are only utilised by 5% of their owners. Take out the off-road aspect and any wagon or van/mini van would suffice.
UMMM no your wrong there fpv...... read post above re towing and slippery surfaces, you cant do that with a mini van or even a ute.... I know Ive tried
Usually ends with 4 guys sitting on the tailgate as a ute cooks its tyres looking for traction..... lets not even bring minivans into the equation..
IBrake4Rainbows
08-28-2008, 06:47 AM
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/01/super_exceed.jpg
May I humbly Suggest this fits the bill of Both Van & 4WD?
It's also ridiculously cool.
Sure, Can you suggest me one of either that will do this
and this
and perhaps be able to ferry around 8 of my daughters mates to various bands and social activities or 8 of us to the footy?
and serve as a daily driver as well.
IBR you beat me to it
charged
08-28-2008, 06:50 AM
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/01/super_exceed.jpg
May I humbly Suggest this fits the bill of Both Van & 4WD?
Youve never driven a Delica IB4R, I value my families life too much for that. COG 4foot in the air = very very bad.. plus a ashmatic 2.8TD that is a lot dirtier than most diesels.
charged
08-28-2008, 06:52 AM
IBR you beat me to it
A little better Nota but the same points ring true, ashmatic engine and very ordinary on road dynamics:p
IBrake4Rainbows
08-28-2008, 06:53 AM
The modern ones you can get with the Pajero's 3.5 V6.......
They may seem very high, but the centre of gravity is no worse than something like a Jeep Cherokee or even a landcruiser 100. the difference is the Landcruiser has a larger footprint, one suggests......
charged
08-28-2008, 06:55 AM
Ive driven a few before I bought my Surf, the 3.5 v6 will only help it crash faster:) My surf is your typical offroader on the road ..fairly crude suspension and handling wise but a Delica makes it seem like a Ferrari. Yep the 100 series has a bigger track which with a high cog is very much desired.
Plus I drive a van for work and in a accident head on its bye bye lower torso, I like a bit of bonnet in front of me.
If I had my way I would be driving either of these, but because the wife rules our house with a iron yugolsav fist I drive a conventional 4WD:o
A little better Nota but the same points ring true, ashmatic engine and very ordinary on road dynamics:p
How about this in van form? (http://www.big-toys.net/detail.cgi180.htm) :p
Btw I reckon the old Wasserboxer would give Landcruisers a run for on road dynamics
IBrake4Rainbows
08-28-2008, 06:58 AM
TBH the Hilux Surf is not a vehicle known for it's handling prowess either. Especially the first 4 door models.
According to Wikipedia, the last generation was based off the Pajero (1991-2002?) Which I can vouch for rolling but sticking to the road (my folks owned a skinny-tired 1997 GLX Petrol when we lived in Alice Springs)
charged
08-28-2008, 07:17 AM
Found it:):)
YouTube - 520hp Volkswagen van (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XvjVvFdMIY)
charged
08-28-2008, 07:20 AM
TBH the Hilux Surf is not a vehicle known for it's handling prowess either. Especially the first 4 door models.
According to Wikipedia, the last generation was based off the Pajero (1991-2002?) Which I can vouch for rolling but sticking to the road (my folks owned a skinny-tired 1997 GLX Petrol when we lived in Alice Springs)
The first early ones are a bit ordinary with the torsion bar and leaf suspension, mines based on the 90 series prado with coils and sway bars all round and a 5 link arse end...... much better but still not like a car on the road:(
IBrake4Rainbows
08-28-2008, 07:25 AM
If you buy a 4wd expecting car like handling.....well, you'll be sorely disappointed, won't you :p
Found it:):)
YouTube - 520hp Volkswagen van (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XvjVvFdMIY)
Thats brilliant :cool: I love how he takes that Lotus Elise on the inside
f6fhellcat13
08-28-2008, 10:58 AM
The first early ones are a bit ordinary with the torsion bar and leaf suspension, mines based on the 90 series prado with coils and sway bars all round and a 5 link arse end...... much better but still not like a car on the road:(
You could buy a unibody crossover then if your wife still want to b high and mighty, but with better handling and ride, unless you ever do serious offroading.
you could still tow your bouts out of the water cuz you could still get 4wd and the like.
or you could get one of those weird off road wagons like the Audi allroad
btw For all my fellow yanks, the toyota hilux surf is basically our 4runner if I'm not mistaken.
crisis
08-28-2008, 05:47 PM
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/01/super_exceed.jpg
May I humbly Suggest this fits the bill of Both Van & 4WD?
It's also ridiculously cool.
No you may not.
It is merely ridiculous. ;)
crisis
08-28-2008, 06:09 PM
Im with you Crisis, people say to me all the time about having a 4wd and being a evil enviromental vandal and frankly Ive had a gutful having to justify my choice of transport.
Yeah well I’m not really even into justifying it. Just having a bit of fun and throwing some back at the self righteous anti SUV cheer squad. :p
I agree that the majority of them are just toys and never do anything that they are suitable for. Still I don’t mind much. Gives me a good choice for low k cars that have not been roughed up when it comes time to replace mine!;)
As far as environmental vandalism goes there is about 35,000km of coastline in Australia of which only a very small percentage is accessible and about 7 million square kilometres of land which is likewise so. My limited vandalism has a lot less consequences that almost any factory. And my thumping 4.7 litre V8 is more economical and burns cleaner that many under-serviced 6 cylinder Commodores or Falcons from pre 1986.
but if you do abit of offroading ,tow stuff race car/skiboat/fishingboat... try pulling a 1 1/2 ton boat up a slippery ramp with a minivan or even a ute, it cant be done boys:eek:
I have spent some time on boat ramps watching guys burning rubber trying to get quite modest boats out the water. And front wheel drive is even funnier.
I am sure there are alternatives but I will not be driving a gutless 4x4 van as suggested. If I had to take one of those away fully loaded towing my camper trailer I would stay home. And they look poxy. http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a313/chris80857/ththefinger.gif
Plus I love tailgating cars and feeling superior in my 4WD*:D
Funnily enough I did this random traffic infringement thing this morning where I turned across an intersection (which I do every morning) on what I thought (and am not sure wasn’t) a green arrow and watched all the people coming across stop and wait for me to get off. :o Got away unscathed but I may have been happy to be t-boned in the Cruiser had things not ended so well rather than most anything else.
f6fhellcat13
08-28-2008, 06:44 PM
gentlemen the answer is simple
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2007/01/super_exceed.jpg
May I humbly Suggest this fits the bill of Both Van & 4WD?
It's also ridiculously cool.
PLUS
Found it:):)
YouTube - 520hp Volkswagen van (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XvjVvFdMIY)
=WIN
No more:
ashmatic engine and very ordinary on road dynamics:p
I give you death in a small nipponese can :) :p
IBrake4Rainbows
08-28-2008, 07:38 PM
Funnily enough I did this random traffic infringement thing this morning where I turned across an intersection (which I do every morning) on what I thought (and am not sure wasn’t) a green arrow and watched all the people coming across stop and wait for me to get off. :o Got away unscathed but I may have been happy to be t-boned in the Cruiser had things not ended so well rather than most anything else.
Just ask Bluey about what happens when a regular car T-Bones a Landcruiser :p
Falcon500
08-28-2008, 07:43 PM
Used Cars for Sale | MITSUBISHI RVR drive.com.au (http://www.drive.com.au/used-cars/MITSUBISHI/RVR/Gold+Coast/detail.aspx?id=7656416&lid=7656416&pg=1&pp=2&d=0&nv=1&SG=1975666393&pt=1)
Mitsubishi RVR Just think evo that can seat the family :)
And very much unlike the DELICA this is cool.
IBrake4Rainbows
08-28-2008, 07:50 PM
RVR's aren't cool.
Any car the size of a Lancer with only one rear sliding door is just bad design.
And plus, that has about as much off-road Kudos as my sisters Ford Laser :p
Falcon500
08-28-2008, 07:54 PM
RVR's aren't cool.
Any car the size of a Lancer with only one rear sliding door is just bad design.
And plus, that has about as much off-road Kudos as my sisters Ford Laser :p
Still cooler then a delica ;)
Thats about as much offroad ability as i need :P
IBrake4Rainbows
08-28-2008, 07:56 PM
Feel free to grab it then - it's a good buy, will never let you down reliability wise.
but the Delica has such a ridiculous quality to it - it's bat s**t crazy & it knows it.
The RVR is almost apologetic about being odd.
fpv_gtho
08-28-2008, 08:06 PM
UMMM no your wrong there fpv...... read post above re towing and slippery surfaces, you cant do that with a mini van or even a ute.... I know Ive tried
Usually ends with 4 guys sitting on the tailgate as a ute cooks its tyres looking for traction..... lets not even bring minivans into the equation..
Again though, capabilities only utilised by maybe 5% of their owners, the rest buying SUV's as a fashion statement over something like a Falcon wagon which should be re-badged as a panel van. Yourself and crisis are undoubtedly in that 5%, i dont think you should feel it necessary to defend your choice of vehicle.
f6fhellcat13
08-28-2008, 09:04 PM
or they just like playing devil's advocate :p
charged
08-29-2008, 12:45 AM
Again though, capabilities only utilised by maybe 5% of their owners, the rest buying SUV's as a fashion statement over something like a Falcon wagon which should be re-badged as a panel van. Yourself and crisis are undoubtedly in that 5%, i dont think you should feel it necessary to defend your choice of vehicle.
No offence taken mate, just a little defensive. There is plenty of 4wd out there that never have been offroad.
Mate if I had my way Id be driving either a Legnum, Stagea or dont know if the kids would enjoy the dog sharing the back seat (http://www.pickles.com.au/cars/vehicle/CP-11-03-Ford-Falcon-BA-XR6-Turbo-Sedan-5-Seats/itemid-1-103043105/lotid-103097817)
clutch-monkey
09-01-2008, 01:34 AM
sums it up imo haha..
fpv_gtho
09-01-2008, 04:41 AM
lol, the Prado has some dirt on it at least.
Reminds me a bit of the guy outside work half an hour ago in a cowboy hat admiring his Territory, albeit a mudded up Territory.
f6fhellcat13
09-01-2008, 11:05 AM
this sums it up better:
lol body roll :D
http://image.minitruckinweb.com/f/miscellaneous/2007-ludikrs-custom-car-and-truck-show/6968792+w640+cr1+re0+ar1/lifted-truck.jpg
SlickHolden
09-01-2008, 07:24 PM
There are many SUV 4wd in my street, And the only action they have seen that could be considering close to off road work, Is when they sit it on the nature strip.
crisis
09-01-2008, 11:09 PM
sums it up imo haha..
Ha ha, How do you know they werent all heading here?
:p
clutch-monkey
09-02-2008, 02:27 AM
Ha ha, How do you know they werent all heading here?
:p
possibly but i'd say it's a safe bet they're not :D
Spastik_Roach
09-02-2008, 02:32 AM
Seeing bloody Pajeros on low profile tyres and big flash wheels parked outside Playcentre, you wonder who they're trying to be. Drug dealing soccer mums?!
charged
09-02-2008, 03:17 AM
Seeing bloody Pajeros on low profile tyres and big flash wheels parked outside Playcentre, you wonder who they're trying to be. Drug dealing soccer mums?!
A++++++++++++ Spastic Roach, ant one who lowers a 4wd puts on 22-25in bling needs a bullet.:mad:
crisis
09-02-2008, 07:15 PM
A++++++++++++ Spastic Roach, ant one who lowers a 4wd puts on 22-25in bling needs a bullet.:mad:
Yeah the kind of crap Range Rovers and BMW X5s come with standard? :rolleyes:
If they go off road they are staying there.
Spastik_Roach
09-02-2008, 11:12 PM
Saw a video of a Range Rover sport off-road on top gear or something...just embarrassing really!! got no grip what-so-ever and it was hardly a challenging course.
whiteballz
09-02-2008, 11:20 PM
rangie sport had a blast being chased by a challenger tank - I was surprised.
fpv_gtho
09-02-2008, 11:54 PM
Saw a video of a Range Rover sport off-road on top gear or something...just embarrassing really!! got no grip what-so-ever and it was hardly a challenging course.
Thats because of the standard tyres and acres of mud soaked terrain they were on. That would happen to any 4x4
Spastik_Roach
09-03-2008, 12:04 AM
Oh yeah the tyres were rubbish but thats the point I'm making...low profile road tyres have no place on a 4wd..
SlickHolden
09-03-2008, 12:47 AM
SUV-4WD with low profile tyres and 20-22" Rims = Poser.
charged
09-03-2008, 03:37 AM
SUV-4WD with low profile tyres and 20-22" Rims = Poser.
QFT spot on Slick
fpv_gtho
09-03-2008, 05:14 AM
Oh yeah the tyres were rubbish but thats the point I'm making...low profile road tyres have no place on a 4wd..
It wouldnt matter if they were 45 profile or 70 profile, basically every 4x4 is sold with highway tyres which dont have the tread depth to handle mud.
crisis
09-03-2008, 07:40 PM
It wouldnt matter if they were 45 profile or 70 profile, basically every 4x4 is sold with highway tyres which dont have the tread depth to handle mud.
Yeah but even 70 profile road tyres are some use on sand etc. I wouldn’t see much hope deflating 45 profiles tyres to 20 pounds. 70s will also handle rough tracks up to the extent that you may be susceptible to punctures form sharp rocks. Some of my mates have accompanied us to Dalhousie Springs and up through Coopers Creek etc with road tyres. Mud is different but then again if its too greasy you will be a passenger with just about any tyre.
f6fhellcat13
09-03-2008, 08:55 PM
Mud is different but then again if its too greasy you will be a passenger with just about any tyre.
resist ... posting ... pic ... of ... insanely ... huge ... swampers
It's...
...no...
...use
:eek::p
http://www.4wheelingplus.com/images/80_CJ5.jpg
charged
09-04-2008, 07:18 AM
Drove a 200 series lancruiser today , very unbelieveable engine, fantastic fit and finish... want one for next tow vehichle.... engine looks like a nightmare to work on though
Falcon500
09-04-2008, 07:26 AM
Yeah theres an engine somewhere under that lot!
And knowing the japanse they probably have hoses snaking around eachother and in the monifolding and so on......couldent be any worse then a mitsu sirius or ca18s though.
SlickHolden
09-04-2008, 07:52 AM
Are you sure theres an engine in there?.
charged
09-04-2008, 08:10 AM
Slick defientley a engine and a sweet one, it would be the quickest diesels I have ever driven.... pity its 80grand otr for the GXL pov pack... although its not really that pov
crisis
09-04-2008, 07:22 PM
resist ... posting ... pic ... of ... insanely ... huge ... swampers
It's...
...no...
...use
:eek::p
http://www.4wheelingplus.com/images/80_CJ5.jpg
Yes we are all using those on our daily driver...;)
crisis
09-04-2008, 07:26 PM
Drove a 200 series lancruiser today , very unbelieveable engine, fantastic fit and finish... want one for next tow vehichle.... engine looks like a nightmare to work on though
Well I have the plastic cover off my 100 series anyway. There are engines under there.
Have two mates with 200s. One diesel One Petrol. They haven’t clocked much up in them yet although the Petrol engine came to Elliston with us in June. Did fine. They do have some annoying quirks. The rear set of sears are quite difficult to remove which is a pain. The diesel is so insanely pricey over the petrol. It would take you years to balance it out in fuel especially the price diesel is.
f6fhellcat13
09-04-2008, 09:37 PM
Yes we are all using those on our daily driver...;)
You might be surprised by the number of these things, mostly lifted pickups, with heavy-duty offroad tread bombing around LA. The grooves aren't quite as deep on your average nodickmobile as they are on that jeep, but, again, you'd be surprised. I am and I've lived here my whole life. :p
crisis
09-04-2008, 10:39 PM
You might be surprised by the number of these things, mostly lifted pickups, with heavy-duty offroad tread bombing around LA. The grooves aren't quite as deep on your average nodickmobile as they are on that jeep, but, again, you'd be surprised. I am and I've lived here my whole life. :p
Well it is America so I am not really. That would not be able to be registered to drive on the road here. ;)
Falcon500
09-04-2008, 10:41 PM
That would not be able to be registered to drive on the road here. ;)
Couldent imagine why wou would want that in the first place :confused:
whiteballz
09-04-2008, 10:44 PM
imagine the road noise...
cmcpokey
09-04-2008, 10:48 PM
imagine the road noise...
you can generally hear them inside your car... with the windows up
crisis
09-04-2008, 10:50 PM
Your right. Generally in all but the most extreme cases the normal “skinny” “cheese cutter” are about the most capable tyres according to most guys that actually use them in off road situations all the time.
http://www.4wdonline.com/Toyota/PiCs37/FJ78.2001ute.jpg
f6fhellcat13
09-06-2008, 01:45 PM
Couldent imagine why wou would want that in the first place :confused:
Making up for something, most likely.
Generally in all but the most extreme cases the normal “skinny” “cheese cutter” are about the most capable tyres according to most guys that actually use them in off road situations all the time.
Unfotunately these are not very "manly", so people who only use there offroad lifted truck on the road trying to impress and infuriate everyone doesn't give a damn about "some idiot's pussy-assed skinny tires." :mad:
charged
09-06-2008, 05:15 PM
Your right. Generally in all but the most extreme cases the normal “skinny” “cheese cutter” are about the most capable tyres according to most guys that actually use them in off road situations all the time.
http://www.4wdonline.com/Toyota/PiCs37/FJ78.2001ute.jpg
I have to agree Crisis, when we went from Glendambo across to Kalgoorlie we had 2 patrols. Ian had the 265/70/16 HT duellers and the mine had cheese cutters, the track followed the railway and got very rocky in sections, the fat duellers got probably 3 times as many punctures... it got to the point where we had to use cheeser cutters on the wide tyre equipped patrol as it had used all its spares 3 and the I was still punctureless
Even in the sand the cheese cutters went over very hill the fat duellers did...
headin out again to commission the Glendambo to Cook leg... cant wait:cool:
clutch-monkey
09-06-2008, 10:10 PM
my friend has a little suzuki jeep thing (they look like downsized willy's jeep), only has a top speed of 90, still has crossply tires, goes anywhere... used it on rocky/hilly property hunting goats. cool little offroader.
f6fhellcat13
09-06-2008, 11:07 PM
my friend has a little suzuki jeep thing (they look like downsized willy's jeep), only has a top speed of 90, still has crossply tires, goes anywhere... used it on rocky/hilly property hunting goats. cool little offroader.
Its called the Vitara here and the Pajero everywhere else except spanish-speaking countries AFAIK. Because pajero supposedly is slang for "chronic masturbator" en espanol.IIRC :p
Ferrer
09-07-2008, 12:49 AM
Its called the Vitara here and the Pajero everywhere else except spanish-speaking countries AFAIK. Because pajero supposedly is slang for "chronic masturbator" en espanol.IIRC :p
You're mixing cars.
First there's the Suzuki Vitara. It's the first attachment.
Then there's the Mitsubishi Pajero/Montero. Second attachment.
Finally the car clutch is talking about is probably a Suzuki LJ-series, later known as the Samurai. It's the third attachment.
clutch-monkey
09-07-2008, 12:56 AM
negative.
it looks near identical to a wartime jeep, but shrunk in the wash. it's from the 70's i believe.
edit: it may have been an LJ10 or LJ20, looking for pics now
edit2: Suzuki's 4x4 History - Trucks 4x4 @ Off-Road.com (http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=277664)
the yellow one, only in khaki. i don't think it's even registered, just used to get around the property
crisis
09-07-2008, 06:52 PM
negative.
it looks near identical to a wartime jeep, but shrunk in the wash. it's from the 70's i believe.
edit: it may have been an LJ10 or LJ20, looking for pics now
edit2: Suzuki's 4x4 History - Trucks 4x4 @ Off-Road.com (http://www.off-road.com/trucks4x4/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=277664)
the yellow one, only in khaki. i don't think it's even registered, just used to get around the property
Yep those little Jimnys are popular with farmers. Light, small and cheap. I saw a shed on a farmers property in the Gawler Ranges that housed about 6 of them ranging from run into the ground to still working. Farmers generally don’t get rid of old machinery much….
Falcon500
09-07-2008, 07:52 PM
Yep those little Jimnys are popular with farmers. Light, small and cheap. I saw a shed on a farmers property in the Gawler Ranges that housed about 6 of them ranging from run into the ground to still working. Farmers generally don’t get rid of old machinery much….
I knew a hobby farmer that cruised around in a lada niva cheap as chips to buy and suprisingly easy to fix....just the regularity of fixing it that was the problem.