SUVs we like

[f6fhellcat13]

A fair amount of SUV bashing goes on on these threads, and I'll admit I've been a part of it. But, what are the SUVs we like? The ones that lack mumsiness and idiocy.
I'll start; 5th generation Ford Bronco 302 5-speed (I don't think the 351 came as a manual)
OJ:p
http://a.abcnews.com/images/TheLaw/ap_bronco_070917_ssh.jpg

[whiteballz]

not a fan of any SUV..

[pimento]

Land Rover Defender or Land Cruiser 80 series.. covered in mud. Pretty much anything being used for proper off-roading really, but I'd pick one of those two for the job. Probably the Cruiser. And if I really had a choice, it'd be an early 80s SWB FJ40 Cruiser LX. Diesel. Like the one my mum had when I was a lad (early-mid 90s).

[Ingolstadt]

i like the Range Rover, very proper SUV looks. First generation Toyota RAV4, Isuzu Vehicross, Audi Q7, Cayenne, Suzuki Jimny, Jeep Wrangler ....

[The_Canuck]

I really like the Q7 for some reason

http://audi-q7.bootnetworks.com/audi-q7-pictures/audi-q7.jpg

[f6fhellcat13]

not a fan of any SUV..
not one? this doesnt even have to be one that you necesarily want to drive, just one that has a likeable character.

[acfsambo]

A proper 4x4. Defender, Landcruiser, Patrol, Old Rang Rover, ect.

[Quiggs]

Touareg V10 TDI. Drive one. You'll understand.

From ****ing with people by inflating and deflating the airbags at stoplights, to the 550lb-ft off idle... It gets shit done.

[TehRacer]

Defender

[henk4]

Defender

does a Volvo V70 AWD or a Subaru Forester count as a SUV?

[coolieman1220]

Q7 do look very very nice
GMC Acadia (Lambada platform, proves suvs can be civil)
Cadillac Escalade - Beastly as hell and looks great with 22's, drives nice too
BMW X5 - It's a beemer
Mercedes Benz G Wagon - Status SUV
Porsche Cayenne S - looks great drives nice and is sporty as hell.
Infiniti FX - VQ howl, is it a 350 or a coupe? Nope its an FX.

I've noticed most of these are crossovers.....

[ScionDriver]

The original: Jeep Wrangler, not the new more comfortable more liveable ones either, I mean the two door ones with the cramped back seats.

[Kitdy]

I like the looks of a bunch of SUVs, I just don't want to drive them.

[scottie300z]

Willys.
First bronco.
And that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

[jump15vc]

BMW X5 4.8
Cayenne GTS

[f6fhellcat13]

does a Volvo V70 AWD or a Subaru Forester count as a SUV?
Not technically, but sure why not? :p
From now on though try to post BoF SUVs :)

[Roentgen]

I'll probably get some abuse for this, but I love Hummers.

[taz_rocks_miami]

I like two SUVs:

USA: Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8

Europe: AMG ML 63

[70cuda88]

Lada FTW!

[silverhawk]

Cayenne Turbo S
X5
G Class
Range Rover and Sport
despie their poor mileage and excess weights i love the escalade and EXT and Hummer H2, even the SUT.

the most ourageous SUV has the spyker's pecking to paris SSUV

[aiasib]

Nissan Patrol
Toyota Landcruiser
Touareg
Land Rover
Audi Q7

[clutch-monkey]

GMC typhoon..I6 wranglers...thats about it

[markpaul]

It will be unveiled in 2010 and will be code named F151
It will be offered with two different engines: a V8 with a power of 450 hp and a V12 with a maximum power of 600 hp. It will be priced around 250.000 euro and will come to compete with the super-sports SUVs from Porsche, Mercedes, Bmw and Audi.


http://static.blogo.it/autoblog/FerrariSUV_01.jpg
http://allcarsreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/117039.jpg

[digitalcraft]

Well for how much crap y'all talk about SUVs, I think you've named nearly every one out there. You are all hereby banned from criticizing SUVs.

Unless its an Aztec.

[ruim20]

Touareg V10 TDI. Drive one. You'll understand.

From ****ing with people by inflating and deflating the airbags at stoplights, to the 550lb-ft off idle... It gets shit done.

I'm with you on that one, V10 TDI truck engine deluxe! And the Touareg looks quite good.

2nd comes the Land Cruiser V8.

[fisetdavid26]

I'll probably get some abuse for this, but I love Hummers.
I have a habit of waving the one finger salute to any Hummer's I see passing by.

I mostly hate all SUV's, to me they are an aberration, but I'm with Quiggs on the Touareg.

[Ferrer]

I don't like SUVs.

I like off roaders.

[s-d]

Mercedes-Benz G wagon is the ultimate SUV!

[LeonOfTheDead]

A proper 4x4. Defender, Landcruiser, Patrol, Old Rang Rover, ect.


Defender


The original: Jeep Wrangler, not the new more comfortable more liveable ones either, I mean the two door ones with the cramped back seats.


Willys.
First bronco.
And that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

those...are not SUV

the only I would even posses it's the still to born Spyker D12
but I don't think it's a SUV either

[ErWin76]

I have softspot for Defender.

[Turbo.Jenkens]

The original: Jeep Wrangler, not the new more comfortable more liveable ones either, I mean the two door ones with the cramped back seats.

You mean the ones with square headlights, gross.

I like true off road vehicles with removable tops, that are often referred to as SUVs in the same way that all rock music made after 1990 is called Alternative.

Willys, CJs, old patrols, FJs, 1st generation 4runners, defenders, etc...

I have been thinking of picking up a Suzuki Samurai, they're cheap and will go anywhere, and by anywhere I mean trails that are intended for ATVs only.

[henk4]

I have been thinking of picking up a Suzuki Samurai, they're cheap and will go anywhere, and by anywhere I mean trails that are intended for ATVs only.

somebody already mentioned Lada. The Niva is the cheapest thing you can buy, also in the long wheel base four door version. Build quality leaves much to be desired, but it does what it should do.

[Turbo.Jenkens]

International Scouts and 1st Generation Broncos are cool too.

[Turbo.Jenkens]

somebody already mentioned Lada. The Niva is the cheapest thing you can buy, also in the long wheel base four door version. Build quality leaves much to be desired, but it does what it should do.


The Niva is defiantly along the lines of what I would like (simple, cheap, and light,) but unfortunately not very available in Alabama.

[LeonOfTheDead]

It will be unveiled in 2010 and will be code named F151
It will be offered with two different engines: a V8 with a power of 450 hp and a V12 with a maximum power of 600 hp. It will be priced around 250.000 euro and will come to compete with the super-sports SUVs from Porsche, Mercedes, Bmw and Audi.

are you seriously believing at that thing?
Ferrari has developed and tested an AWD system, it's true, but we are so far from anything different from the next 612 AWD...a SUV is just a stupid gossip in magazines with too much white pages just a couple of days before of the printing.

btw, there isn't a single SUV nowadays that costs even 150k € (maybe, one day, the Spyker D8, or the rumored Lagonda, if it would be an SUV though), so I can't see which kind of competition you are talking about.

[Matra et Alpine]

The actual original SUV ... :)
The Espace Quadra, the MPV with 4x4 drive.
All the comfort and saloon car handling with 4x4 traction when needed.
Ours was a solid workhorse (!) used for towing the horse trailer and was good enough to get out of muddy fields.
Carbonfibre 6' long propshaft made it light and responsive.
Not bad for 1988 !

Sadly (being French) it's achiles was the viscous centre-diff which ALL end up locked solid after 15 years and NOBODY offers servicing .... so ours is now used as a non-mobile workshop/storage :)

[cmcpokey]

some people pay good money for a locked center diff.... maybe you can take it rockcrawling now.

[Ferrer]

somebody already mentioned Lada. The Niva is the cheapest thing you can buy, also in the long wheel base four door version. Build quality leaves much to be desired, but it does what it should do.
Nor did it have much performance. But I have fond memories of them. Tough little things.

[Matra et Alpine]

some people pay good money for a locked center diff.... maybe you can take it rockcrawling now.
Proeblem is to get there on tarmac roads it really winds the suspension up. Tears drive shafts, destroys ball joints and requires larger biceps to turn the wheel - even with power steering :(
WHat I did for a while was to pull the propshaft ( only 4 bolts and it is very light ) when I was not needing the actual 4x4 .. and then when we were towing the horse to a locatino we knew we'd need to park on grass then I'd fit the prop -- got good and got it down to a 15 minutes job :)
But foudn alternative and so is now 'redundant'

[ErWin76]

Nor did it have much performance. But I have fond memories of them. Tough little things.

That is so true 81hp, 19s 0-100km/h and topspeed of 137km/h, but new one only costs 12990€. :)

[Ferrer]

That is so true 81hp, 19s 0-100km/h and topspeed of 137km/h, but new one only costs 12990€. :)
Here the base one costs just over 11.000€.

Tempting. :)

[NicFromLA]

Defender, first X5, Cayenne Turbo, Ford Bronco, and early Toyota Landcruisers.

Of course the Lamborghini LM002 for it's absolute ridiculousness. Rambo Lambo!

[NicFromLA]

I'll probably get some abuse for this, but I love Hummers.

Heretic.

[092326001]

toyota landcruiser/LX, 4-runner/hilux surf, defender, LM002, H1, rangerover/sport, LR3/disco, LR2/freelander, VW touareg, nissan patrol, pathfinder

[crisis]

I'll probably get some abuse for this, but I love Hummers.

Not from me. Once I am through ferrying hoards of kids etc around I want a H3. Preferably with an LS2 or at a stretch a decent diesel. At least they are built to be used off road if that’s what you desire.

[whiteballz]

We practically got kicked off the H3 stand in sydney last year for pulling appart the H3 that was on display - Very plastic, those bubble wheel arches are plasic - Hopefully they're cheap to replace :p

[henk4]

We practically got kicked off the H3 stand in sydney last year for pulling appart the H3 that was on display - Very plastic, those bubble wheel arches are plasic - Hopefully they're cheap to replace :p

at least you were acting in the right spirit....

[f6fhellcat13]

We practically got kicked off the H3 stand in sydney last year for pulling appart the H3 that was on display - Very plastic, those bubble wheel arches are plasic - Hopefully they're cheap to replace :p

Good thing you did that to an H3. If you did it to an H1 the man in the turret woulda pumped you full of lead.:p

[clutch-monkey]

Not from me. Once I am through ferrying hoards of kids etc around I want a H3. Preferably with an LS2 or at a stretch a decent diesel. At least they are built to be used off road if that’s what you desire.
i thought the H3 was a load of bollocks offroad? and the H2 is worse?

at least you were acting in the right spirit....
we weren't deliberately 'trashing' it or anything... simply playing with the switches and the like, as you would in any of the other show cars. bits still fell off.
the four door wrangler was better thanks to it's brutally cheap plastic

[cmcpokey]

i thought the H3 was a load of bollocks offroad? and the H2 is worse?

when equipped from the factory, they are both very capable. the h2 was the first vehicle to have a factory equipped electronically activated locking diff in the rear axle.

the only issue ive read with the H3 is that it just doesnt have enough power to really overcome its girth. but with its really low gearing, it supposedly does fine off road.

most of the non-capability belief comes from people who do things like put 22's on the car and try and take it on the beach.

[Zytek_Fan]

Touareg V10 TDI. Drive one. You'll understand.

From ****ing with people by inflating and deflating the airbags at stoplights, to the 550lb-ft off idle... It gets shit done.

Agreed.
Also, the Q7 V6 TDI looks tasty :D

[whiteballz]

when equipped from the factory, they are both very capable. the h2 was the first vehicle to have a factory equipped electronically activated locking diff in the rear axle.

the only issue ive read with the H3 is that it just doesnt have enough power to really overcome its girth. but with its really low gearing, it supposedly does fine off road.

most of the non-capability belief comes from people who do things like put 22's on the car and try and take it on the beach.

One thing i remember not liking (might have been the H2 not H3) was a huge transmission tunnel through the cabin?

[Ferrer]

Heretic.
But then you say you like the X5 and the Cayenne...

[Drones]

From middle price range -
Nissan Pathfinder 2.5 diesel
Ford Expedition, especially if make 4.4 diesel :rolleyes:

From the higher price range -
Audi Q7 3.0TDI & 4.2TDI
Porsche Cayenne S

[DFH]

i'd take the BMW X5 4.8is M sport

[cmcpokey]

One thing i remember not liking (might have been the H2 not H3) was a huge transmission tunnel through the cabin?

obviously you havent been in an H1.... their driveshaft is higher than the lower frame rails. as is transmission and transfer case. so what you end up with is quite a table between the passengers. there is really no way to carry more than 4 since you cant put anyone on top of it, and the seats for those 4 passengers are very small, and just squeezed around the tunnel.

Here is an interior shot:
http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/images/RoadTestImages/eHummer%20H1%20Interior.jpg

[teatako]

continuing on the subject of H3´s , here´s a tip to have a laugh: get in the back seat, push the front seats from side to side.
they will move. they´re like dorifto rocking chairs, very safe indeed.

[Quiggs]

obviously you havent been in an H1.... their driveshaft is higher than the lower frame rails. as is transmission and transfer case. so what you end up with is quite a table between the passengers. there is really no way to carry more than 4 since you cant put anyone on top of it, and the seats for those 4 passengers are very small, and just squeezed around the tunnel.

Here is an interior shot:
[IMG]http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/images/RoadTestImages/eHummer%20H1%20Interior.jpg[IMG]
But it gives you one hell of a place to stand when you're mounting the .50. ;)

[baddabang]

Possibly the worse vehicle to be in when your gf has the urge to give road head.

[crisis]

i thought the H3 was a load of bollocks offroad? and the H2 is worse?



Well I haven’t driven one so I would do that first. The reviews in the 4x4 magazine were surprised as I was to learn how well it performed off road. Good ground clearance and suspension as well as centre diff lock and capable traction control. Also option under body protection. It also has a very good turning circle.

Dunno about the H2

[crisis]

obviously you havent been in an H1.... their driveshaft is higher than the lower frame rails. as is transmission and transfer case. so what you end up with is quite a table between the passengers. there is really no way to carry more than 4 since you cant put anyone on top of it, and the seats for those 4 passengers are very small, and just squeezed around the tunnel.

Here is an interior shot:
http://www.gulfcoastnews.com/images/RoadTestImages/eHummer%20H1%20Interior.jpg

Yeah they are hopeless as a family wagon. They are after all a military design. Extremely inefficient use of all that interior space but that is not its core function.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Well I haven’t driven one so I would do that first. The reviews in the 4x4 magazine were surprised as I was to learn how well it performed off road. Good ground clearance and suspension as well as centre diff lock and capable traction control. Also option under body protection. It also has a very good turning circle.

Dunno about the H2

I read almost the same about the H2, the only complaint were the overall dimensions, quite disturbing in some moment during hard off road.

[Drones]

H2 is good only on a solid surface, for example in the mountains.
At the soft, he stuck very quickly, to fault - very large mass (empty weighs 3 tons).
Very large width, prevents while driving in the forest. :(

And the "hard off road", no one serial SUV is not adapted :)

[Quiggs]

Possibly the worse vehicle to be in when your gf has the urge to give road head.

Best criteria to use when new vehicle shopping.

[fisetdavid26]

Best criteria to use when new vehicle shopping.
Yeah. Sunroof is as important as close and easy to maneuver seats, so dirty truckers can see you and blow their horns. Which is lulz.

[teatako]

Possibly the worse vehicle to be in when your gf has the urge to give road head.

speaking of the matter what happened with that nonsense about americans wanting to ban ferrari cos´they didn´t include "road head" airbags back in 2006?

[NicFromLA]

But then you say you like the X5 and the Cayenne...

Both cars are brilliant bits of engineering and really are drivers cars. A modified version of the X5 did the Paris to Dakar, which means its a race car and beyond reproach. As far as the Cayenne (which should've been raced and called Dakar) goes, driving around Southern California I've seen more people spiritedly driving S and Turbos than I've seen people putting 911s to the test.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Both cars are brilliant bits of engineering and really are drivers cars. A modified version of the X5 did the Paris to Dakar, which means its a race car and beyond reproach. As far as the Cayenne (which should've been raced and called Dakar) goes, driving around Southern California I've seen more people spiritedly driving S and Turbos than I've seen people putting 911s to the test.

A basically stock Fiat G.Punto 1.3 JTD raced in the Nurburgring 24H back in 2005 or 2006, and IIRC won its class...
and usually SUVs' drivers are reckless. while 911's drivers could save their licenses with a trackday every now and then, so no need to "test" their cars on the road.

[Ferrer]

Both cars are brilliant bits of engineering and really are drivers cars. A modified version of the X5 did the Paris to Dakar, which means its a race car and beyond reproach. As far as the Cayenne (which should've been raced and called Dakar) goes, driving around Southern California I've seen more people spiritedly driving S and Turbos than I've seen people putting 911s to the test.
Sure they are amazing engineering achievements, but starting with an SUV is like fighting with arm tied in the back, no matter how good you are the result won't be as good.

[elmacker]

Just drive a BMW X5 and you'll be pleasantly suprised.

[jump15vc]

I have no idea why but i love the Cayenne GTS, it just looks cool for some reason

its the only suv that i enjoy looking at lol

[Vanishing Boy]

-> I have my short list:

L/R Defender 90 (better than the Wrangler in every way)
http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/02/2007-land-rover-defender-90.jpg

Toyota Land Cruiser 200 VX-R (2 gas tanks + 2 spare tires + a winch = perfect)
http://www.drivearabia.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/2008-toyota-land-cruiser-3.jpg

Hummer H1 Alpha (the symbol of America and I like it!)
http://www.3autos.com/upload/3autos.com/200504/2006_hummer_h1_alpha_in_the_autoblog_garage_day_4. jpg

Mitsubishi Pajero Evolution (Does rarity count?)
http://images.google.com/url?q=http://www.bestjapancar.com/MITSUBISHIS/PajeroEvo97_005.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGWd_1TWHppVnRToBz3fE_AuRpksA

Subaru Forester STi (As fast as any Cayenne, a little mod will be faster, and it can dwift!)
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/buying_guide/subaru/forester/2005_subaru_forester/subaru_forester_sti_mini_test_road_test/73233-1-eng-US/subaru_forester_sti_mini_test_road_test_submodel_f ull.jpg

:)

[AKPeugeot]

My friend had a 1988 Range Rover that was freakin' awesome. It went anywhere, handled beaches like a champ, and went down the highway at 75 like nothing. Aside from annoying electrical things (switches, bulbs, etc.) it was trouble free and not expensive to own, aside from gas.

[jcp123]

Early Broncos and ;92-'94 Broncos.
'69-'72 Chevy K-5 Blazer
Land Rover Defender 90
H1

[Tall_G]

Early Range rovers are brilliant. Practical and supremely functional, plenty of herbs and a damn nice place to be in any conditions. Plus split tailgate so you can use it as a bench for picnic, workbench, etc. Good "Head" room, yay! Unfortunately built by lazy and/or stupid assemblers, so tended to be a bit unreliable. Especially love the custom versions: if I could find & afford a six-wheeled one, I'd die happy.
Early SWB Landcruisers: Unbustable, good looking with steel wheels and fats, even in the factory standard putrid orange. Not very comfortable though.
The latest versions are one of the best ever, and pretty reasonably priced for what you get. But look like an obese RAV4 or Highlander. Such a shmae Toyota went for a family look.
Broncos: One of the best. Pretty wide for forestry, but sweet over sand dunes. Have very fond memories of an early 80's 351 auto.
In my humble opinion Cayennes look like and ugly sister to the Toureg, Q7's look like station wagons in funhouse mirrors. But X5's, now they're sexy. X6's look better in the flesh than in photos, but still seem awkwardly proportioned. I haven't driven any of them, but must bow in reverence to the engineers who have turned these into decent cars (on road).

[jcp123]

Broncos: One of the best. Pretty wide for forestry, but sweet over sand dunes. Have very fond memories of an early 80's 351 auto.

Boy, I know it. We have 8 acres of land here, about half of it is forested. I took my old '92 Bronco out there a couple of times and it took some smart placement to get it to thread the trees unscathed. On the bright side, the cabin was nice and wide.

What's really sold me on the Bronco was when I had my accident in it, this truck fully protected me. My dumb ass was fiddling with the iPod and I met a tree at 50mph. I was still able to open the door, and my only injury was when I jupmed out of the truck and twisted my ankle. Not a good night, but Ford protected my ass.

[f6fhellcat13]

Boy, I know it. We have 8 acres of land here, about half of it is forested. I took my old '92 Bronco out there a couple of times and it took some smart placement to get it to thread the trees unscathed. On the bright side, the cabin was nice and wide.

What's really sold me on the Bronco was when I had my accident in it, this truck fully protected me. My dumb ass was fiddling with the iPod and I met a tree at 50mph. I was still able to open the door, and my only injury was when I jupmed out of the truck and twisted my ankle. Not a good night, but Ford protected my ass.
And OJ's
...till the dumb sumbitch got out of the car.

[Tall_G]

Boy, I know it. We have 8 acres of land here, about half of it is forested. I took my old '92 Bronco out there a couple of times and it took some smart placement to get it to thread the trees unscathed. On the bright side, the cabin was nice and wide.

What's really sold me on the Bronco was when I had my accident in it, this truck fully protected me. My dumb ass was fiddling with the iPod and I met a tree at 50mph. I was still able to open the door, and my only injury was when I jupmed out of the truck and twisted my ankle. Not a good night, but Ford protected my ass.


Lucky b**stard! I too have 8 acres, but no Bronco to tame it with. You were definitely in the right truck when that damn tree jumped out in front of you.

Speaking of robust SUV's, I watched a TV show last night where they reconstruct auto accidents. In this case it was Toyota Hilux ute vs. Corolla hatch, head on on a 100km/h stretch of narrow country road. Corolla was 300mm over the white centre line, Hilux 500mm over. Hilux driver was bruised but otherwise intact, Corolla driver instant death. The Hilux driver is my wife's aunt....

[LeonOfTheDead]

Lucky b**stard! I too have 8 acres, but no Bronco to tame it with. You were definitely in the right truck when that damn tree jumped out in front of you.

Speaking of robust SUV's, I watched a TV show last night where they reconstruct auto accidents. In this case it was Toyota Hilux ute vs. Corolla hatch, head on on a 100km/h stretch of narrow country road. Corolla was 300mm over the white centre line, Hilux 500mm over. Hilux driver was bruised but otherwise intact, Corolla driver instant death. The Hilux driver is my wife's aunt....

that's not a demonstration that SUV or trucks are robuster than cars. they are simply heavier. so they possess more energy while going at a certain speed.
it's not that those are safer than common cars, but they can overwhelm a car during an impact. a decent engineered car will protect the driver even against those SUVs, but if the impact happens at high speed, the ammount of energy possessed by the SUV is probably going to reject the car in the opposite direction it was coming from. and that's even more dangerous. that's why modern cars have parts developed to broken themselves during accidents and impacts so to dissipate some of the energy in a controlled way.

Usually trucks lack of those parts, simply because they aren't designed with the exactly ultimate technology. while a modern SUV is not going to be safer or robuster by definition, see what happened to ankles of Q7 drivers in frontal impacts before that the issue was fixed.

[f6fhellcat13]

Having more momntum does not help much in protecting yourself, hwne you are hitting a tree.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Having more momntum does not help much in protecting yourself, hwne you are hitting a tree.

whit enough energy, you can destroy the tree, or simply move it. seriously.

a trailer hit one of the pylons of a birdge on the highway some years ago. it completely removed the pylon without being destroyed itself in the impact. and trailers aren't exactly what you would call robuster than a reinforced concrete pylon

[f6fhellcat13]

I agree with you scientifically, but some trees won't budge.
At 50mph if (a very big if) the tree stayed intact, it is down to the car being strong.

[jcp123]

Yeah, the bark popped off the other side of the tree. It was a large one though, so it wasn't going to submit to the will of a Bronco, no matter how fast.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I agree with you scientifically, but some trees won't budge.
At 50mph if (a very big if) the tree stayed intact, it is down to the car being strong.

I would go for a smaller car in that case. the car being heavier is implying that it has to sustain and resist to all the energy it possesses in that moment, considering a rigid tree, and more weight, means more energy, as we accorded. so even if the car is going to be robuster, it is also going to suffer of a bigger stress. and since big cars are made of the same materials of smaller ones, there are no reasons to think they are going to be a better place to be in.
in crash tests, while using reinforced concrete barriers, small cars performs as good as bigger ones.
they just suffer more when hitting objects with their own account of energy with the possibility to transfer that energy to the smaller one too.
so, in the real world, a bigger and heavier car is probably safer, meaning that you are in a safer car which is safer just because it "destroys" other cars. not the right attitude I suppose.:p

[Tall_G]

so, in the real world, a bigger and heavier car is probably safer, meaning that you are in a safer car which is safer just because it "destroys" other cars. not the right attitude I suppose.:p

...unless your Mad Max.

you've raised an age-old argument, one which dictates the car of choice for many mothers doing the tarmac-only school run. They buy SUV's because they believe in an accident with another vehicle, they are more likely to survive. Might is right. We could argue this is selfish but when it comes to self-preservation, it's not easy to suggest we distribute the forces evenly so everyone gets a fair share of the carnage (impact communism, anyone?).

I agree with your scientific basis of the relative safety of vehicles. SUV's have inherent stability issues with the higher COG (making the likes of the Cayenne & X6 engineering marvel, though they're hardly bush-bashers or "Paris-to-Dakar" contenders), but through sheer mass carry a significantly higher energy into impacts than your average car. Same as the good ol' yank tanks of the 50's, 60's & 70's: Versus your typical euro car, ka-blam.

Naturally in a crash there are other issues to consider such as offset of impact, incline (affecting energy of impact), "give" in the impact point. But Polo vs. Toureg? Not difficult to estimate the score on that.

And one more thing: It also helps if you wear your bloody seat belt!

[LeonOfTheDead]

...unless your Mad Max.

you've raised an age-old argument, one which dictates the car of choice for many mothers doing the tarmac-only school run. They buy SUV's because they believe in an accident with another vehicle, they are more likely to survive. Might is right. We could argue this is selfish but when it comes to self-preservation, it's not easy to suggest we distribute the forces evenly so everyone gets a fair share of the carnage (impact communism, anyone?).

I agree with your scientific basis of the relative safety of vehicles. SUV's have inherent stability issues with the higher COG (making the likes of the Cayenne & X6 engineering marvel, though they're hardly bush-bashers or "Paris-to-Dakar" contenders), but through sheer mass carry a significantly higher energy into impacts than your average car. Same as the good ol' yank tanks of the 50's, 60's & 70's: Versus your typical euro car, ka-blam.

Naturally in a crash there are other issues to consider such as offset of impact, incline (affecting energy of impact), "give" in the impact point. But Polo vs. Toureg? Not difficult to estimate the score on that.

And one more thing: It also helps if you wear your bloody seat belt!

I saw a video of a crash test, featuring an Audi Q7 and a (new) Fiat 500, both traveling at 60 km/h IIRC. both cars were heavily damaged after the impact, but none of the mannequin appeared very damaged or one more than the other. besides, the 500's front airbag deflated very early, as if it suffered of a puncture, but I never checked about that. I will look for that video.

EDIT: found snme links, even if in Italian: Sicurauto.it - Fiat 500 vs Audi Q7 Crash test ADAC, chi vince? (http://www.sicurauto.it/crashtest/speciali/fiat_500_vs_audi_q7.php)

it was an ADAC test. it appeared that the main part of the damages suffered by the Fiat are to be searched in the shape of the Q7 front end rather than in its weight.

EDIT EDIT: found the video YouTube - ADAC Crash Test: Fiat 500 vs. Audi Q7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4Tmk-uufGw)

[Tall_G]

Sorry, can't read Italian. Can you paraphrase the content?

[henk4]

It says (I saw the German video) that the shape and flexibility of the protective bars in the front of the Audi do not allow for absorption of the impact by evenly distributing the force of the impact. The longitudinal bar in the Audi penetrated into the pedal box area of the Fiat, because the collision energy was concentrated into this bar and could not be dispersed. So the Germans ask for improvements to the Audi structure, and mandatory testing for cars in this respect.

[Tall_G]

Cool. So the playground bully had his knuckle-dusters confiscated and was told to fight fair.

[henk4]

Cool. So the playground bully had his knuckle-dusters confiscated and was told to fight fair.
well, that is at least what ADAC is proposing. Whether the SUV lobby will be successful in their (potential) opposition against this proposal remains to be seen. It was clear from the video that the people in the Audi suffered little damage, but if you are capable of transferring all the energy into the protective areas of your opponent, you will meet the requirements of the average soccer mum....

[Tall_G]

well, that is at least what ADAC is proposing. Whether the SUV lobby will be successful in their (potential) opposition against this proposal remains to be seen.QUOTE]

If ADAC can convince them that the changes will drop weight and improcve economy/emissions, they might get some buy-in.

[QUOTE=henk4;846543]if you are capable of transferring all the energy into the protective areas of your opponent, you will meet the requirements of the average soccer mum....

Yes, I suspect it's 99% perception rather than research and understanding. So long as the vehicle have a commanding view from which to manouvre around/over/through the lowly Puntos and Pandas, and a big nose to suggest plenty of real estate between them and the (hopefully smaller) vehicle entangled in their grille...
Must be hell in the roads around US schools: Your average well-heeled soccer mom with her X5 or M-class believing she is suitably encased in enough metal to insulate her and tribe from harm, being monstered by an unaverage soccer mom in a Hummer.

Edit: Damn, veered off track again. Okay here goes: I like the X5, old and new generations, especially the 4.6iS. I hate the ML, though the latest AMG 63 would sit nicely in my driveway. And I'm shocked and awed by the Hummer. Wouldn't want one, but they always turn my head, especially H1's (not the H3, that turns my stomach more than my head).

[Juggs]

I like jeep grand cherokees. Mainly just the ZJ (93-98) and WJ (99-04) ones. When I look for an SUV I want something that is good offroad but still luxurious and comfortable on the road. In my eyes you can't beat the grand cherokee. No other SUV can blend on road manners, off road ability, luxury, and reliability the way the grand cherokees can. Not to mention what a bargain they are. They are one of the few newer SUV's that still had a solid front axle. When it comes to offroad ability nothing can touch a SFA. You can't count me out on crappy independant suspensions for my SUV's. They have plenty of luxury options availible and are very comfortable to ride in. They have great motor choices, from the stone cold reliable 4.0 to the fire breathing 5.9 and 4.7's and the 5.2 V8 in between. Any motor is a good one. They have some faults but the benefits outweigh the negatives. Not to mention how cheaply they can be bought for these days!

[Rockefella]

I like jeep grand cherokees. Mainly just the ZJ (93-98) and WJ (99-04) ones. When I look for an SUV I want something that is good offroad but still luxurious and comfortable on the road. In my eyes you can't beat the grand cherokee. No other SUV can blend on road manners, off road ability, luxury, and reliability the way the grand cherokees can. Not to mention what a bargain they are.

JGC never really come to mind when I think of 'favorite SUV' but now that you mention it there is a soft spot in my heart for them. A few of my friends own/owned the ZJ series and it wasn't a bad car for what it's worth. Comfort/power/off-road in that thing was all pretty solid.

[Spastik_Roach]

dads one breaks down all the time. electronics system is useless and hard to fix.

[cmcpokey]

dads one breaks down all the time. electronics system is useless and hard to fix.

welcome to the world of grand cherokees. has he replaced the transmission yet?

[jcp123]

And the 4,7l motors in those JGC's were always deceptively quick as well.

[Juggs]

yes the electronics are known to be a little funky on these danged ol jeeps, but they are definatley not hard to fix. All the little gremlins that seem to come up usually have easy fixes and any person experienced in the jeeps will be able to tell you how to fix it. If your dad needs some direction I'd be more than happy to help.

as for the trannies, once again there is a common misconception that they have bad trannies. The trannies they use are actually pretty stout. Its the electronics that like to go bad once again on them. Just like before any ol jeep fan could probably tell you what the problem is. the 42re behind the 4.0 is more notorious for problems than the v8 trannies.

the 4.7's are actually just as fast if not faster than the 5.9's of old! Friends dad just bought a WJ with the 4.7 and wooo that thing can scoot!

I'll admit these danged ol grand cherokees have their quirks but its almost part of the fun of owning one. Not usually does something drastic go wrong its usually just some small thing here or there and its actually kind of fun (for me at least) to figure out the problem and fix it! I have had pretty damn good luck with mine so far though. I know lots of others with grand's that swear by them too.

I really like plain ol cherokees too. They are a lot like stripped down grands (although there were many luxury models, like my old briarwood I had that was even more luxurious than my grand) but with lighter weight, and better transmissions (aw4 they use in those is a damn good transmission).

[henk4]

Edit: Damn, veered off track again. Okay here goes: I like the X5, old and new generations, especially the 4.6iS. I hate the ML, though the latest AMG 63 would sit nicely in my driveway. And I'm shocked and awed by the Hummer. Wouldn't want one, but they always turn my head, especially H1's (not the H3, that turns my stomach more than my head).

I also always take a good look when I see those cars....I want to see the face of the idiots buying them....

[Lagonda]

the X5, old and new generations, especially the 4.6iS. I hate the ML, though the latest AMG 63 would sit nicely in my driveway.

Why ? Just because of the big engine ? That doesn't make it a better car.

[Ferrer]

Why ? Just because of the big engine ? That doesn't make it a better car.
Nope, just a thristier and more expensive one.

A waste of a good engine.

[Bleeding Heart]

SUV that I like...

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008_toyota_land_cruiser_america_official_image022 .jpg

5.7L V-8 Toyota LandCruiser

[Bleeding Heart]

I also like the LX570
http://image.motortrend.com/f/8441686/112_0803_17z+2008_lexus_lx570+uphill.jpg

[Bleeding Heart]

I wouldn't forget the biggest of them all, the ford Excursion...
http://www.fordforum.com/models/excursion/images/2005-Ford-Excursion.jpg

[LeonOfTheDead]

besides the fact that the Toyota and the Lexus are the same car, never considered a single post? :rolleyes:

[Bleeding Heart]

My mistake.... again...

Sorry about that...

[LeonOfTheDead]

My mistake.... again...

Sorry about that...

I understand that you are an "emo", but can you stop blaming yourself all the time? ;):p

[Juggs]

I wouldn't forget the biggest of them all, the ford Excursion...
http://www.fordforum.com/models/excursion/images/2005-Ford-Excursion.jpg

honestly I wouldn't mind having one of these behemoths. I'd get a diesel one and soup it up. You could carry as much gear/passengers as you want in ultimate comfort and with the souped up diesel getting decent milage and plenty o power!

[cmcpokey]

with the souped up diesel getting decent milage

define decent? i think you woudl be hard pressed to muster 15 mpg out of that thing.

[Tall_G]

Why ? Just because of the big engine ? That doesn't make it a better car.

Do you mean the X5 4.6iS or the ML63 AMG? Agreed that a bigger engine does not necessarily make the better car. However in the ML63's case, that motor is fantastic. Have you heard one roaring along? Sure gets my heart pumping. As for the rest of the ML range they just seems so....frumpy. I look at them and sense the smell of expensive mothballs and golfclubs. The AMG is at least is visually stirring, though not what I'd call pretty.

With the 4.6iS it seems to combine attractive sportiness with SUV size in a way the ugly Cayenne can't. It's stance is perfect.

And to prove I'm not trying to substitute for inadequacies with extra cubic inches, I'd rather have the V8 TDi Range Rover or Sport than the S/C petrol V8.

Remember, this is all just my subjective opinion.

[f6fhellcat13]

define decent? i think you woudl be hard pressed to muster 15 mpg out of that thing.
If you look at Juggs' current cars that seems about par.

[Juggs]

define decent? i think you woudl be hard pressed to muster 15 mpg out of that thing.

Nah with the diesel and a tuner I wouldn't be suprised to see over 20. Hell my buddies f-250 7.3 powerstroke on 35 inch tires and lots of engine mods got 23 on the interstate and we were beating on it most of the time. city was still around 16-18.



If you look at Juggs' current cars that seems about par.

Don't hate cuz you can't afford. The stang actually gets good mileage. And If I was really worried about milage in my jeep I'd have gotten a V8! the little 4.0 manages to get about 14 tho, even with a tranny that likes to start in second and 31 inch tires. Once I get my 4.10 gears in it I expect milage to increase a little with a lot of load off the engine.

[f6fhellcat13]

I wasn't hating. :)
I want that shelby. :D

[cmcpokey]

Nah with the diesel and a tuner I wouldn't be suprised to see over 20. Hell my buddies f-250 7.3 powerstroke on 35 inch tires and lots of engine mods got 23 on the interstate and we were beating on it most of the time. city was still around 16-18.




Don't hate cuz you can't afford. The stang actually gets good mileage. And If I was really worried about milage in my jeep I'd have gotten a V8! the little 4.0 manages to get about 14 tho, even with a tranny that likes to start in second and 31 inch tires. Once I get my 4.10 gears in it I expect milage to increase a little with a lot of load off the engine.

ok, i guess 23 on the highway is doable... but on the combined cycle, i wouldnt want to fill it up.

the 4.0 is a horribly thirsty engine. one of the best engines ever put in a jeep, but thirsty.

[wwgkd]

ok, i guess 23 on the highway is doable... but on the combined cycle, i wouldnt want to fill it up.

the 4.0 is a horribly thirsty engine. one of the best engines ever put in a jeep, but thirsty.

Yeah, love the thing, but it's annoying that my friends wrangler with a hemi is getting 4 mpg better. It's just wrong to have twice the power and still better mileage.

[cmcpokey]

Yeah, love the thing, but it's annoying that my friends wrangler with a hemi is getting 4 mpg better. It's just wrong to have twice the power and still better mileage.

hemi v8? is that a custom job? if so how much did it run him to do that swap. sounds fun.

[Waugh-terfall]

Is it just a fault that makes it start in 2nd gear? The Mercedes 190D 2.5 4spd Auto starts in 2nd for improved economy unless power (not that there is any) is needed and it flicks down to 1st

[wwgkd]

hemi v8? is that a custom job? if so how much did it run him to do that swap. sounds fun.

Company called AEV ( American Expedition Vehicles - Brute Kit, V8 HEMI, Aftermarket Jeep Conversions, Products, Wheels, Accessories and Highline Kits for Jeeps (TJ, JK, WK, XK). (http://www.aev-conversions.com/products/) ) makes a conversion kit. He's got the hemi, a 3 inch lift and 37s that fit because of a fender kit that the same company sells. Put it all on a TJ rubicon with some other goodies and it's pretty sweet; even 0-60s about the same as an '05 Mustang GT.

He's also got an Audi A8, a Range Rover Sport, a pretty crazy Cherokee for search and rescue and several other cars in addition to his Lear jet. I hate rich college students. Especially when they're not me.

[Zytek_Fan]

define decent? i think you woudl be hard pressed to muster 15 mpg out of that thing.

Actually, Excursion diesels tend to get on the side of 8-10mpg

[LeonOfTheDead]

Actually, Excursion diesels tend to get on the side of 8-10mpg

what's that, a Lamborghini?!

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Negative.

It's a Small country with wheels & doors.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Negative.

It's a Small country with wheels & doors.

that was LULZ:D:D

[Juggs]

Is it just a fault that makes it start in 2nd gear? The Mercedes 190D 2.5 4spd Auto starts in 2nd for improved economy unless power (not that there is any) is needed and it flicks down to 1st

yes it is a fault trust me it doesn't improve the economy on my jeep lol. I think I have finally tracked the problem down to the speed sensor tho. Damn electronic tranny. I can't complain too much tho that little tranny has worked hard in its 120k miles lifespan. It never slips or anything, and a lot of times it takes off fine, but it also likes to take off in the wrong gear sometimes. It's an electronic problem, its still very mechanically sound as far as I can tell.

The v8 grand cherokee has tons more power and only gets 1mpg less. With my oversized tires I'd be getting better milage than my 4.0 but swapping from 3.55 gears to 4.10's should help me out quite a bit.

[Aftermarket]

Upcoming Lincoln MKT , best looking suv ever built.

http://blog.mlive.com/citpat/2008/01/large_LincolnMKT.jpg

[crisis]

Upcoming Lincoln MKT , best looking suv ever built.

http://blog.mlive.com/citpat/2008/01/large_LincolnMKT.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/o4/98/583898/1/63713938.qaEEdjG9.popcorn.gif

[jackal63]

Touareg V10 TDI. and New Cayenne V6 turbo Diesel.:D

[wwgkd]

Anyone else here like the Dodge Ram SRT-10?

[Zytek_Fan]

Anyone else here like the Dodge Ram SRT-10?

It's 2wheel drive.

[henk4]

It's 2wheel drive.

Utility is also debatable...

[f6fhellcat13]

Utility is also debatable...

It's not an SUV, mind you.:)
All it needs to do is pick things up, and seeing as it has no hands...:rolleyes:

[Zytek_Fan]

It's not an SUV, mind you.:)
All it needs to do is pick things up, and seeing as it has no hands...:rolleyes:

For a pickup truck, it's pretty damn un-useful.

[thevipermanv10]

dont mind the porche cayene turbos. they look great and they go hard for an SUV

[thevipermanv10]

also dodge ram SRT10. i have driven one and they not bad either. huge viper engine in the front of it. take up the whole engine bay lol

[willysjeep]

-> I have my short list:

L/R Defender 90 (better than the Wrangler in every way)
http://jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/02/2007-land-rover-defender-90.jpg

:)

Vanishing boy, hope you got a nice SENSE OF HUMOUR for this....here in South Africa is a couple of lads that can get very annoyed about the following;

1. If you want to buy a Defender, you must be willing and able to work every Saturday.

2. Never drive a Defender futher than you can walk back.

3. A Defender does'nt leak oil, it marks it's territory.

4. If you step on a Defenders brakes, the only thing that will change is the expression on the drivers face.

5. On the newer Defenders they installed a heated rear window, so that your hands does'nt freeze off while pushing.

6. Why does a Defender owner wear a moustache........so that he can look like his mother.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

See, my Father had a Series II as his first car, and he swears by the things.

[Freakshow]

I'd probably have to go with a Ford Excursion with the 6.4 twin turbo diesel. Talk about power and toughness. And I'd say it has the highest tow rating of any SUV out there.

Just like you guys telling me to 'drive this and you will understand', maybe you guys should try driving a 3/4 ton model SUV. That's tough.

[cargirl1990]

X5
X3
X6
Tahoe and Suburban as GMC twin SUV.
Escalade
Armada and Infniti twin

[henk4]

X5
X3
X6
Tahoe and Suburban as GMC twin SUV.
Escalade
Armada and Infniti twin

that settles it, it was nice knowing you....but here is where our ways split forever.

[LeonOfTheDead]

that settles it, it was nice knowing you....but here is where our ways split forever.

you are so polite...