Mazda Falcon?

[fpv_gtho]

Interesting question isnt it.

Would you buy one? Or would you buy one from Mazda rather than Ford?

Ford and Mazda have a long history of sharing models, notably the Laser/323, Telstar/626 and Courier/Bravo. Most of the time its been Mazda's rebadged as Fords, but lately theyve been developing vehicles together, such as the Focus/3. Soon, the Mondeo and 6 will likely be put onto a common platform as Ford cut down CD3 and EUCD into a common platform.

The original plan for Falcons future was to play a part in Fords Global RWD achitecture, but just like GM, Ford have dumped that idea and now all their large cars will share DNA in the future. So Falcon's future lays with commonality with cars like Mondeo and 6, although its not necessarily going to be FWD based because of that. In some ways, that opens up the possibilities of seeing Falcon dervatives globally, which includes a possible Mazda variant.

Sales figures suggest more people want Mazda's than Fords. 3 sells close to 3000 a month regularly whilst Focus struggles around the 1000 mark. 6 and Mondeo show similar traits, as has Bravo-BT50/Courier-Ranger and Tribute/Escape in the past. Mazda's percieved as a more sporty brand than Ford. They back that up with suspension thats usually a touch stiffer and engines tuned for a touch more power/torque, sometimes at the expense of economy. They also dont have such a negative reputation for reliability and dealer service.

So would a large 4 door, 5 seat RWD/AWD Mazda tempt you more than the same from Ford?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

If Ford Australia are forced to make do with a FWD Falcon they will single handedly have signed their own death warrant.

I'm all for adapting to the times but when you've got the Mondeo within your own range cannibalising valuable high-end sales you really have to consider whether or not losing essentially the greatest point of difference - A uniquely Australian selling point in this market - is worth it.

As for a Mazda Falcon.....People didn't really take to a Toyota Commodore, so I'd have to wait & see the finished product.

[Ferrer]

A 6 or a Mondeo with rear drive?

Yes I'm all for it.

[pimento]

I doubt we'll see a RWD Mondeo come out of this, I'd say if there was a Mazda Falcon it'd be badged a 9, which'd link it to the old 929. It is a shame.. and rather mystifying.. that Ford US would dump the global platform plans, as it seems a good way to lower costs in these trying economic times. As for Mazda vs Ford, it'd depend on the badge engineering that goes on.. I'd get the one that drives better. The other thing about 3 vs Focus and 6 vs Mondeo is that.. well, aren't the Mazdas also cheaper?

[Ferrer]

I doubt we'll see a RWD Mondeo come out of this, I'd say if there was a Mazda Falcon it'd be badged a 9, which'd link it to the old 929. It is a shame.. and rather mystifying.. that Ford US would dump the global platform plans, as it seems a good way to lower costs in these trying economic times. As for Mazda vs Ford, it'd depend on the badge engineering that goes on.. I'd get the one that drives better. The other thing about 3 vs Focus and 6 vs Mondeo is that.. well, aren't the Mazdas also cheaper?
But the Mondeo is almost as big as the Falcon so probably both the Falcon and the Mondeo (and the 6) are going to have the same layout because they are going to share the same platform, wheter it is front or rear wheel drive.

Either that or the next Mondeo will be heavily downsized.

[NSXType-R]

Well, we already kinda had that as the MazdaSpeed 6, it didn't sell all too well though right?

[SlickHolden]

Are FoMoCo shaping there business like GM now?, Will we soon see all company's run under ford? Or am i grasping at the wrong idea?.

If Falcon was sold overseas as a Mazda car, I'm sure people that know it or we can tell them, Will buy it if priced right..

If sold here a Mazda 3 with a Ford badge that would be weird?.

But selling the same car in the same country it was built in, Under a different name?, I don't think that works anymore.

[f6fhellcat13]

It seems to me that Mazda would have trouble selling the Falc in the US. All Japanese sedans that aren't luxobarges seem to be fwd. Back in the day, however, there was this company called Ford that used to make big RWD sedans, and maybe they should try that again. As to a global platform, I think Ford would do ok here by putting the US Fusion on the smaller Mondeo architecture and leaving the RWD Falcon as it is.
I would personally embargo the Falcon if Ford makes it FWD. :)

[digitalcraft]

If they did, it probably wouldn't look like the current Falcon, and that's too bad: the falcon's hot. I'm a little nervous about Mazda with their new soul-less version of the 6, so I don't know if they would make it better or worse...

[fpv_gtho]

If Ford Australia are forced to make do with a FWD Falcon they will single handedly have signed their own death warrant.

Its not yet a gurantee that a global large car platform would be locked into being FWD biased. Mustang will use the architecture in the future, and thats more dependant on RWD than Falcon is so America will want RWD a possibility as much as us.


It is a shame.. and rather mystifying.. that Ford US would dump the global platform plans, as it seems a good way to lower costs in these trying economic times.

All that's been dumped is Global Rear Wheel Drive. Originally D3, CD3 and EUCD were to be merged together, as was E8 and DC2 into GWRD. Ford Oz was in the box seat to head development of GWRD, and apparently theyre still in a good position regards this new global large car platform.


If Falcon was sold overseas as a Mazda car, I'm sure people that know it or we can tell them, Will buy it if priced right..

If sold here a Mazda 3 with a Ford badge that would be weird?.

But selling the same car in the same country it was built in, Under a different name?, I don't think that works anymore.

Well Ford will be building Focus locally from 2011, and theyre looking at other C1 derivatives which includes Mazda3. Theyre only targeting 40K units per year, but if they could get 3 as well thats an easy 30K extra.

A Mazda Falcon doesnt have to be a badge engineered exercise like what we had 15 years ago. If you look at the 3 and Focus, every panel is different, including the doors.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Mazda's percieved as a more sporty brand than Ford. They back that up with suspension thats usually a touch stiffer and engines tuned for a touch more power/torque, sometimes at the expense of economy. They also dont have such a negative reputation for reliability and dealer service.

Mazda also spec their cars as standard a little higher as well.

But as for the Falcon, if they restyled it, yes. If they just did a Lexcen, fail.

[clutch-monkey]

it always seemed to me that ford and holden are sorta like if BMW was only selling 5 series...only now ford has the mondeo

[Zytek_Fan]

I'd like if Ford would bring the Falcon to the US as a Mazda :D

Hopefully the Ford global platform arriving in 2010 (or 2011) doesn't kill their RWD Aussie cars :(

[f6fhellcat13]

it always seemed to me that ford and holden are sorta like if BMW was only selling 5 series...only now ford has the mondeo
Doent Ford have some of the other Yurapean models too. An doesn;t holden have some daewoos reabdged as chevys rebadged as holdens?

[clutch-monkey]

Doent Ford have some of the other Yurapean models too.
yeah but their sedan range was sort of falcon and that's it, until the mondeo came. but they're better off than holden with the fiesta and focus i thought:

An doesn;t holden have some daewoos reabdged as chevys rebadged as holdens?
see... :D

[f6fhellcat13]

Yes point taken. But still, you cant expect much cuz IIRC Ford of Oz and Holden aren't particularly big, even if their parents are. Ford is giving them models from other countries. GM doesnt have that many great cars here so what could they give to you all. GM = Clusterf*ck

[clutch-monkey]

exactly why holden should bring back the torana...
edit: how big is the opel signum or insignia or whatever it is they just released?

[f6fhellcat13]

I doubt GM(Holden) has the cash monies to do that.
I think about modeo sized.
THere isnt any small rwd platform for GM to make the torana on, unless they steal the bmw 3series platfom( thats the only small rwd sedan i can think of)

[clutch-monkey]

that's the thing they already made a torana (alpha platform? or something) they just didn't put it into production
iirc because that was when GM was screwing them over with the zeta platform so they had to fund that by themselves

[f6fhellcat13]

On wiki it says that the alpha platform got the green light again recently.

[fpv_gtho]

it always seemed to me that ford and holden are sorta like if BMW was only selling 5 series...only now ford has the mondeo

Its been more than the Falcon for awhile, infact theyve always had other models other than the Falcon derivatives.


yeah but their sedan range was sort of falcon and that's it, until the mondeo came. but they're better off than holden with the fiesta and focus i thought:

Theres not much room for something else though. Focus sedan is larger than most people give it credit, and theres not much market for a smaller sedan. Mondeo being almost Falcon sized leaves a gap between Focus sedan and Mondeo for a more traditional sized medium car, but thats about it. Thats vehicles in the 4 major passenger vehicle segments here.

Holden too has vehicles in most segments with Barina, Viva, Astra, Epica and Commodore.

[SlickHolden]

Well Ford will be building Focus locally from 2011, and theyre looking at other C1 derivatives which includes Mazda3. Theyre only targeting 40K units per year, but if they could get 3 as well thats an easy 30K extra.

A Mazda Falcon doesnt have to be a badge engineered exercise like what we had 15 years ago. If you look at the 3 and Focus, every panel is different, including the doors.
Much like that Monaro knock off they made in Germany?.
You know what i mean they do amazing things today with cars.. Like you said with the focus and 3.
In that way it's fine, But i'd hate to see on or the other take away from each other, Which is why I'm against the Caddy coming here as a so called high premium version, When you can get the cheaper as good version in the VE.

Doent Ford have some of the other Yurapean models too. An doesn;t holden have some daewoos reabdged as chevys rebadged as holdens?
Now your just confusing us all:p.

I doubt GM(Holden) has the cash monies to do that.
I think about modeo sized.
THere isnt any small rwd platform for GM to make the torana on, unless they steal the bmw 3series platfom( thats the only small rwd sedan i can think of)
They have it, They just don't have the balls to build it..
http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Holden/2004_holder_toranna_tt_36_concept_manu_01.jpg

If we change car sizes, I can see this being the future of large RWD cars in OZ, It's between large and mid.

[Ferrer]

edit: how big is the opel signum or insignia or whatever it is they just released?
I don't remember the exact numbers but the Insignia is Mondeo-sized.

Perhaps a tad smaller.

[fpv_gtho]

Much like that Monaro knock off they made in Germany?.
You know what i mean they do amazing things today with cars.. Like you said with the focus and 3.
In that way it's fine, But i'd hate to see on or the other take away from each other, Which is why I'm against the Caddy coming here as a so called high premium version, When you can get the cheaper as good version in the VE.

The Bitter CD2 is still technically a badge engineering job.

As an example, the old Laser and 323 were badge engineered. Different badges, bumpers, lights etc. All the rest much the same.

The current Focus and 3 have different "top hats" or upper body structures on common architecture. In the case of these 2, theyre different down to the door frames which are the most technical part of the bodywork. IIRC though the Volvo S40 shares door frames with the Focus, or at least appears to.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Considering the shift away from large cars I doubt Mazda would consider selling a "9" version of the Falcon - instead they just slightly enlarged the 6 for the US market & if you want something bigger, but an SUV.

I hope against hope the Mustang platform comes to Australia somehow underpinning the 2013(?) Falcon.

I hope further that Ford Australia gets to fiddle with it before it goes anywhere else.

[Ferrer]

The current Focus and 3 have different "top hats" or upper body structures on common architecture. In the case of these 2, theyre different down to the door frames which are the most technical part of the bodywork. IIRC though the Volvo S40 shares door frames with the Focus, or at least appears to.
Maybe because Ford fully owns Volvo but only part of Mazda?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

The Mazda 3 was IIRC the first Hatch out on the current architecture?

Checking Wikipedia indicates the Focus C-MAX was the first on C-1 architecture, but the Mazda 3 pre-dates the S40 & Focus Mk II.

[fpv_gtho]

Maybe because Ford fully owns Volvo but only part of Mazda?

It could be I suppose if Mazda desired more styling independance from Ford. All 3 brands collaborated in its design, rather than other Ford platforms which were generally adapted from architecture under an existing vehicle.

[SlickHolden]

The Bitter CD2 is still technically a badge engineering job.

As an example, the old Laser and 323 were badge engineered. Different badges, bumpers, lights etc. All the rest much the same.

The current Focus and 3 have different "top hats" or upper body structures on common architecture. In the case of these 2, theyre different down to the door frames which are the most technical part of the bodywork. IIRC though the Volvo S40 shares door frames with the Focus, or at least appears to.
300c Mercedes Benz:D.


With Falcon nd Mustang sharing architecture, Does that mean the Stang will hit modern with IRS?.

[f6fhellcat13]

Stang...with IRS?.
GASP! :eek::eek:

[SlickHolden]

GASP! :eek::eek:
I know, It's blaspheme:D.

[f6fhellcat13]

I know, It's blaspheme:D.

It disproves intelligent design or evolution or something like that. :p

[togos452]

where has Ford of Oz said no to a future rwd Falcon?

[Ferrer]

where has Ford of Oz said no to a future rwd Falcon?
It hasn't been "said". But since all full sized Fords are going to be moved to be a single platform in the future they are all going to share the same layout. And apparently since the cancellation of the Global Rear Wheel Drive platform the FF layout (with a 4WD option) seems to be in favour by Ford.

However the Mustang needs rear wheel drive, so the chances of a future rear drive Falcon aren't over yet.

[SlickHolden]

It disproves intelligent design or evolution or something like that. :p
It scares you:D, Modern technology:p.

where has Ford of Oz said no to a future rwd Falcon?
I don't think they have said anything both ways, Which is why the guess of FWD keeps coming up, It's like when Ford dropped the V8, And people are thinking it's a similar situation. That and people are down sizing a touch.

[nota]

I saw a really weird vehicle on the highway last week, it was a white Falcon BF .. panel van!

Yes an authentic, integrated body, high roof PV. Looked brand new. I noticed a 'swage line' pressed into the side, starting just above the door and continuing almost full-length, which imitated the roofline & tray sillhouette of Holden's VU~VZ ute. Tailgate was one-piece, not fully 'OE appearance' like the bodysides & roof, and appeared to be similar to the fibreglass designs that ambulances use (eg Jakab built)

Might possibly be longer wb than stock Ford utes, but hard to be sure at a closing speed between us of 220 km/h