Interesting Nissan GT-R articles...

[Equinox]

Hey all. I'm not posting this to add to the 'Nissan GT-R is the best' talk... I just came across these two articles and thought they were neat and I just wanted to show you them in case you missed them.

The first one is a video of the Nissan GT-R against the Corvette ZR1.. It is a comparison video done by edmonds.com.

Link: Video: Corvette ZR1 Races Nissan GT-R (http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C16508/)

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The second one is "The 600-HP Phantom GT-R Is Not To Be Laughed at."


Even after the 2009 Nissan GT-R was introduced, the public was still waiting for something more. First thing, they wanted to know how much horsepower it had. The second thing, they wanted to know how much more horsepower it could make.

Well, the Japanese tuners have stepped up to the challenge and PowerHouse Amuse has delivered its own version of the Nissan GT-R R35, the Phantom GT-R. Don't let the name fool you, though; it is not to be laughed at. With 600 horsepower on tap, the 2009 Nissan GT-R by PowerHouse Amuse can tear up the pavement like a track car. Not only is its performance ability unreal, the Phantom GT-R also sports carbon-fiber body pieces that look as if they came straight out of the Nismo catalog.

Cool read, check out the full article here..

Link: 2009 Nissan GT-R by PowerHouse Amuse -- Inside Line (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=134147)

Once again, just thought these two article were interesting and I just wanted to share with fellow car enthusiasts.

[NSXType-R]

Yay!

I can't wait till Monaro Country gets his hands on this!

[Ferrer]

Oh no not ag...

Sorry, it's the default answer to GT-R/ZR1 thread.

[dydzi]

i don't get it. hundregs if not thouthands of ingeneering geniuses spent many years and hundreds of millions of dollars on developing this car, and then some group of geeks think they can make a better thing out of it in couple of months?

my opinion is - they can only worsen it

[whiteballz]

i don't get it. hundregs if not thouthands of ingeneering geniuses spent many years and hundreds of millions of dollars on developing this car, and then some group of geeks think they can make a better thing out of it in couple of months?

my opinion is - they can only worsen it


No offence, I disagree ;)

Look back in history at the R32/R33/R34.

All cars have been made better by aftermarket tuners.

Faster, with higher comfort, better interiors, better fuel.

Just about every way.

[Equinox]

I like the video, because there is no bias etc. It's just straight talk and the numbers... Which speak for themselves.

I wonder what the GTR fans will say since the ZR1 won. I myself like the GTR, but I can't argue with facts and numbers.

[digitalcraft]

I find it weird people assume that you can only like one or the other, and that if one is faster, that makes everyone else 'wrong'.

I like the ZR1 a lot. I also like the GT-R for what it is. Given the weight and power, and amount of work put into them, I believe the ZR1 is faster. This doesn't make the GT-R a bad car.

And honestly, the thing that excites me most about it is I know all the crazy things aftermarket companies will do with it. :)

[Guibo]

I like the video, because there is no bias etc. It's just straight talk and the numbers... Which speak for themselves.

I wonder what the GTR fans will say since the ZR1 won. I myself like the GTR, but I can't argue with facts and numbers.
Video seems more biased than normal IMO, in favor of the ZR1. For example, in the dyno segment, they said:
"The Nissan GT-R is rated from the factory at 480 HP and 430 lb-ft of torque, but on the dyno it put down 406 HP and 399 lb-ft of torque. The more powerful ZR1 is rated at 638 HP and 604 lb-ft of torque. On the dyno it delivered an amazing 505 HP at the wheels and 494 lb-ft of torque."
I'm not so sure what's so "amazing." Looks to me like the GT-R did a better job of delivering the claimed power (85%) and torque (93%) than the ZR1(79% and 82%). And this is with the front roller on the AWD dyno rolling too; for the ZR1, the front roller was motionless.

Again, the numbers don't tell you the whole story. If you look at the overall scoring, it was very close: 76.6 vs 78.9. In the vehicle evaluation scoring, the GT-R was rated higher in handling, transmission, steering, build quality, tactile feel, materials, seat comfort and position, and was curiously missing points for the rear seats. ZR1 did better in engine performance (as expected), ride comfort, trunk space.

Some comments from the test:
"Our test driver hops in the GT-R, quickly gets up to speed and lays down some solid laps right out of the gate...He then moves to the Corvette, which takes a little more time to sort out...the ZR1 is quicker than the GT-R, but the raw numbers don't tell the whole story because the two cars are completely different animals around the course.
With the 2009 Nissan GT-R, it's a simple point-and-shoot exercise. The car feels steady, sure-footed and drifts into predictable understeer at the limit. Its seats provide solid support and the steering is direct and responsive. It doesn't have the flickable feel of the lighter Corvette, but its rock-solid chassis inspires the confidence to push it harder...If your driving skills slot anywhere below that of an SCCA road-racing champion, you'll probably go faster in the GT-R.
On the flip side, the Corvette is a sweat-inducing workout that requires good footwork, quick hands and serious concentration. We alternate between jamming our knees into the dash to hold ourselves in place and sawing at the wheel to get the car pointed in the right direction...This Corvette will blow anything out of the water in a straight line, but on a twisty mountain road all that power is difficult to harness."

2nd Opinion:
"I've driven both these cars. Together. Same road, same time. And there's not a significant enough difference in the way they drive on the street to sway me one way or the other.
...the real world, with its bumps, camber and ruts is a great equalizer. And the GT-R, which is far less compliant, powers through the real world with hardly a nod to its irregularities. Plus, it will always be easier to drive. This is the long way to say that it's just as quick down most roads."
2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 vs. 2009 Nissan GT-R Comparison Test (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=134467/pageId=151463)

I don't think any GT-R supporter outside of hardcore fanboys has ever said the Nissan would beat the ZR1. The 997 Turbo was always Nissan's target.

BTW, some of those comments go a long way to explain how the GT-R is faster on a circuit like the 'Ring than one might think.

[coolieman1220]

for the record, i saw my first GTR today in manhattan on 57th st.

[Turbo.Jenkens]

I find it weird people assume that you can only like one or the other, and that if one is faster, that makes everyone else 'wrong'.

I like the ZR1 a lot. I also like the GT-R for what it is. Given the weight and power, and amount of work put into them, I believe the ZR1 is faster. This doesn't make the GT-R a bad car.

And honestly, the thing that excites me most about it is I know all the crazy things aftermarket companies will do with it. :)

Well said +1


for the record, i saw my first GTR today in manhattan on 57th st.

I saw my first 2 weeks ago in small town AL ;)

[whiteballz]

I saw my first 2 weeks ago in small town AL ;)


Over a month ago, at Western Sydney International Dragway.

Then again at a meetup at bondi beach...

Two different cars, neither stock :eek:

Haltech GTR, and motec tuned GTR from envy imports.

[092326001]

In the vehicle evaluation scoring, the GT-R was rated higher in build quality, tactile feel, materials


the corvette's american, it's to be expected.....

[Guibo]

^LOL, yeah...

Saw my first GT-R two weeks ago, about 20 minutes after seeing my first Panamera. :) Sat in a GT-R at the dealer too.

[RacingManiac]

i don't get it. hundregs if not thouthands of ingeneering geniuses spent many years and hundreds of millions of dollars on developing this car, and then some group of geeks think they can make a better thing out of it in couple of months?

my opinion is - they can only worsen it

Depends on what the definition of "better" is really....more power? faster acceleration? more responsive handling? or is it more gas guzzling? less reliable? or compromised ride? So many stuff that a regular manufacturer does to make a product "marketable" might make it less optimized performance wise, but then again the tuners need not worry about the standard of all the owners, just the ones who went to look for them....

saw my first GTR outside of my office, a red one drove by...

btw is this the same Guibo from SC.net all those years ago?

[Guibo]

btw is this the same Guibo from SC.net all those years ago?
Yes, same one. Hey there.

[monaroCountry]

got this from a Porsche forum.........im still waiting for a proper source.


Its funny how fast information goes around the world! I drove the Nissan GTR yesterday for KW with the KW clubsport and with the original suspension. All other parts were stock and the weight was original! Due to the fact, that there where some passing manouvers and 2 small mistakes in my line, the theoretical best time, calculated from my best sectors (with data logger), was a 7.46. ( a real lap was 7,49)

So I think, it is not possible, to go faster, when W.Röhrl and Chr.Menzel also where not able to go under 7.45!

The secret source, who watched the test of the 3 cars is not so secret: He owns a guest house in Nürbrug and was there at the test and watched everything. I spoke to him 2 days ago and it was true that tha car was far away from stock, that means power, sound, tyres, exhaust, weight!

But anyway the Nissan GTR is fast also in stock outfit and fun to drive. Only when acclerating it would need more power to the rear, to kill the understeer. Under braking conditions it steers very good into corners! Sometimes to much, but then it is even more fun!

If You want, You can post that in the internet! Source: Wolf!
Danke und Viele Grüße

[henk4]

got this from a Porsche forum.........im still waiting for a proper source.

why don't you give a reaction on the two articles the thread is about?

[2ndclasscitizen]

the theoretical best time, calculated from my best sectors (with data logger), was a 7.46. ( a real lap was 7,49)

Theory and fact are 2 different things.

[Wouter Melissen]

got this from a Porsche forum.........im still waiting for a proper source.

Thanks for posting a quote that states that the Nissan GTR is a) fast and b) fun to drive.

[Guibo]

got this from a Porsche forum.........im still waiting for a proper source.
The source is Wolf! citing a "secret source." Doesn't get much more proper than that!
Here's the thread in question:
Finally: Some facts on the GT-R's Ring time (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=605408&i=0)

Pretty strange how Porsche's original time was 7:54 (with no mention of Rohrl) and now that time is migrating down to 7:45...
Wonder if "Wolf" is Wolfgang Kaufmann.

[monaroCountry]

Pretty strange how Porsche's original time was 7:54 (with no mention of Rohrl) and now that time is migrating down to 7:45...
Wonder if "Wolf" is Wolfgang Kaufmann.


WR was always a better driver than the engineer, he had a better time in the GT2 and in this particular GTR. Note that my example, WR and another provided driver only achieved a mid 7:40's to mid 7:50's. This fits perfectly with Nissan's original claim.


Not strange at all that an expert Nurburgring driver was able to drive a fraction faster than the Porsche engineer.

By the way...read carefully. His best time was 7:49 or 5 seconds faster than the Porsche engineer.

the theoretical best time, calculated from my best sectors (with data logger), was a 7.46. ( a real lap was 7,49)

[Guibo]

WR was always a better driver than the engineer, he had a better time in the GT2 and in this particular GTR. Note that my example, WR and another provided driver only achieved a mid 7:40's to mid 7:50's. This fits perfectly with Nissan's original claim.
Not strange at all that an expert Nurburgring driver was able to drive a fraction faster than the Porsche engineer.
By the way...read carefully. His best time was 7:49 or 5 seconds faster than the Porsche engineer.
Read carefully: the GT-R's lap times came at the end of weeks of testing (spread over at least 7 different sessions) comprising thousands of laps, and in perfect conditions. Did WR, the Porsche engineer, or the "secret source" take the GT-R for thousands of laps in perfect conditions? If not, then on what grounds can they claim cheating? They can't, unless they themselves have tested the GT-R the same way. Which begs the question: why would they ever want to do that? What's the incentive? To come out and say "Yeah, our legendary Turbo was beaten by a Nissan"?
If WR was able to acheive a 7:45, then why did Porsche not mention this time when it revealed the 7:54 time? Answer that question, if you can relieve your obvious bias for even a moment.
"A fraction faster"...ok, so you admit a difference of 9 seconds is not that big a deal. Von Saurma reckons a time of 7:40 (on Bridgestones) is possible; he does not say a faster time is impossible. Nissan's time for the GT-R on Bridgestones, before subsequent further testing of the chassis and engine mounts, is only 2 seconds lower than that. That's well within your tolerance for "a fraction faster."
Nissan's original claim was never that every lap was a 7:29.

[Quiggs]

i don't get it. hundregs if not thouthands of ingeneering geniuses spent many years and hundreds of millions of dollars on developing this car, and then some group of geeks think they can make a better thing out of it in couple of months?

my opinion is - they can only worsen it

Production vehicles are a compromise in every way. They have to be able to exist in varied conditions across the world- different crash standards, emission regulations, climates. They have to appeal to a broad base of customers. And most importantly, they have to stand up to the accounting department. All of this waters down even the most extreme cars. There is ALWAYS improvement to be had.

[2ndclasscitizen]

By the way...read carefully. His best time was 7:49 or 5 seconds faster than the Porsche engineer.

And he's still talking shit, because adding up fastest sector times won't get you a fastest theoretical time, it'll give you a total of sector times.

[Rockefella]

The gt-r can not run under 7:30 on the Nurburgring. End.