battle between zonda f, enzo, carrera GT, koenigsegg and MC12 at the nurburgring...

[yungtris77]

go to SUPERCARMOVIES.com (http://www.supercarmovies.com) and watch the episodes as they unfold. hear what the driver has to say about the different cars before and after a lap and the times that they post. u will not be disappointed. only one car's run has not been posted yet and that is the carrera. all the others are there. what do u think of it and what other car should have made the cut?

[coolieman1220]

i vote for all!

[yungtris77]

lol, geez coolieman. i u check d vids on d site?bookmark dat site, d quality is A1.

[Ferrer]

Without any shadow of a doubt, the Zonda F.

It's everything an italian supercar should be. It has the style, the drama, the panache. It's fast and it makes some noise. And it even breaks down as demonstrated by Top Gear a couple of weeks ago.

EDIT I've just noticed you were asking for performance at the Nurbirgring. Then I don't care.

[clutch-monkey]

in order of preference...
Zonda F
koenigsegg CCX
Carrera GT

but, like ferrer said, don't care for nurburgring times...unless it is somehow transported here and replaces my daily drive to work.

[yungtris77]

Without any shadow of a doubt, the Zonda F.

It's everything an italian supercar should be. It has the style, the drama, the panache. It's fast and it makes some noise. And it even breaks down as demonstrated by Top Gear a couple of weeks ago.

EDIT I've just noticed you were asking for performance at the Nurbirgring. Then I don't care.

no i was not asking about nurburg performance. i posted it so that persons could see what was going on their. the videos on the website involving these 5 cars and then i wanted to know which of the cars u prefered. i already got your answer tho, thanks. i voted for the zonda also. that car is amazing...

[Bleeding Heart]

I voted for all of them...

Because we have a new batch of cars to talk about laps on the ring other than that of the GT2, GTR, ACR, and ZR1...

[LeonOfTheDead]

EDIT I've just noticed you were asking for performance at the Nurbirgring. Then I don't care.

I dond't watch TG since I think a year, can you/someone summarize the happening please?:)

[Ferrer]

I dond't watch TG since I think a year, can you/someone summarize the happening please?:)
This has nothing to do with TG.

Has it? :confused:

[LeonOfTheDead]

This has nothing to do with TG.

Has it? :confused:

Sorry, I misquoted your post.
I was referring to this part:


Without any shadow of a doubt, the Zonda F.

It's everything an italian supercar should be. It has the style, the drama, the panache. It's fast and it makes some noise. And it even breaks down as demonstrated by Top Gear a couple of weeks ago.

EDIT I've just noticed you were asking for performance at the Nurbirgring. Then I don't care.

[Ferrer]

Ah yes, well in the show they had the Zonda for a test they showed a small clip of it pouring smoke out of the engine while a timed lap.

Just like an italian supercar should. :)

[LeonOfTheDead]

Ah yes, well in the show they had the Zonda for a test they showed a small clip of it pouring smoke out of the engine while a timed lap.

Just like an italian supercar should. :)

true because our cars have a soul;)
The Engine arrives packed from Germany though. Italian craftsmanship ftw.:)

[NicFromLA]

Without any shadow of a doubt, the Zonda F.

It's everything an italian supercar should be. It has the style, the drama, the panache. It's fast and it makes some noise. And it even breaks down as demonstrated by Top Gear a couple of weeks ago.



I strongly disagree with you. The Zonda really isn't what an Italian Supercar should be. First, the Zonda has too many styling features and the details are distracting from the overall presence of the car, an outrageous yet cohesive design is an Italian signature. Second, Italy builds some the the greatest engines on Earth, yet the Zonda has a Mercedes-Benz engine. Need I say more?

[Ferrer]

true because our cars have a soul;)
The Engine arrives packed from Germany though. Italian craftsmanship ftw.:)
Yup, it was ironic that it was the german bit that failed in the italian car...

[LeonOfTheDead]

I strongly disagree with you. The Zonda really isn't what an Italian Supercar should be. First, the Zonda has too many styling features and the details are distracting from the overall presence of the car, an outrageous yet cohesive design is an Italian signature. Second, Italy builds some the the greatest engines on Earth, yet the Zonda has a Mercedes-Benz engine. Need I say more?

being Italian I agree with Ferrer.
and we don't have a good and large engine as that you find in the Zonda.
apart from the Maserati V8, all the others are screamers. Perhaps the Murcielago V12 is different, but the attitude of the MB engine isn't matched by any of our offers. they are quite different approaches to be honest.

[Ferrer]

I strongly disagree with you. The Zonda really isn't what an Italian Supercar should be. First, the Zonda has too many styling features and the details are distracting from the overall presence of the car, an outrageous yet cohesive design is an Italian signature. Second, Italy builds some the the greatest engines on Earth, yet the Zonda has a Mercedes-Benz engine. Need I say more?
It's not perfect, but what would you rather have?

The Enzo? Nope, I'm sorry if you consider the Zonda a mess the Enzo is downright ugly. And it has a stupid gearbox. And the interior is nowhere near the Zonda's...

The Murcielago? Mmmm... I like it but germans have tamed the raging bull just a little bit too much. Also it needs to lose some weight. And four wheel drive.

The Zonda is the one.

[clutch-monkey]

I strongly disagree with you. The Zonda really isn't what an Italian Supercar should be. First, the Zonda has too many styling features and the details are distracting from the overall presence of the car, an outrageous yet cohesive design is an Italian signature. Second, Italy builds some the the greatest engines on Earth, yet the Zonda has a Mercedes-Benz engine. Need I say more?
well they pull off that engine really well... i don't really put much stock in the whole 'engines country of origin defines the car', but you may have somnething there considering what italy puts out. it's just that merc V12 seems to suit it really well, and seems far removed from it's original application

[Ferrer]

well they pull off that engine really well... i don't really put much stock in the whole 'engines country of origin defines the car', but you may have somnething there considering what italy puts out. it's just that merc V12 seems to suit it really well, and seems far removed from it's original application
I think that the only engine which would be more suitable than the Merc's V12, is Lambo's V12.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I feel the need to repost my answer to Nick, I think no one noticed it because it was the last of the first page


being Italian I agree with Ferrer.
and we don't have a good and large engine as that you find in the Zonda.
apart from the Maserati V8, all the others are screamers. Perhaps the Murcielago V12 is different, but the attitude of the MB engine isn't matched by any of our offers. they are quite different approaches to be honest.

[clutch-monkey]

same page leon...20 posts per page. :p

[LeonOfTheDead]

same page leon...20 posts per page. :p

what's that? me n0o0b

[clutch-monkey]

most of us have it set to 20 posts to a page..so your post was smack in the middle of the first page :p

[LeonOfTheDead]

most of us have it set to 20 posts to a page..so your post was smack in the middle of the first page :p

I got it, how do I switch the view? User CP I suppose...

EDIT: found it and changed it, now I'm a pro ;)

[yungtris77]

This has nothing to do with TG.

Has it? :confused:

nope, it has nothing to do with top gear.

[yungtris77]

It's not perfect, but what would you rather have?

The Enzo? Nope, I'm sorry if you consider the Zonda a mess the Enzo is downright ugly. And it has a stupid gearbox. And the interior is nowhere near the Zonda's...

The Murcielago? Mmmm... I like it but germans have tamed the raging bull just a little bit too much. Also it needs to lose some weight. And four wheel drive.

The Zonda is the one.

what about the MC12?or do u consider it the sister of the zonda?

[cmcpokey]

what about the MC12?or do u consider it the sister of the zonda?

dont you mean enzo?

[Ferrer]

what about the MC12?or do u consider it the sister of the zonda?
The MC12 isn't a Maserati.

It's just an Enzo in racing overalls. It should have no place in a Maserati lineup.

[NicFromLA]

It's not perfect, but what would you rather have?

The Enzo? Nope, I'm sorry if you consider the Zonda a mess the Enzo is downright ugly. And it has a stupid gearbox. And the interior is nowhere near the Zonda's...

The Murcielago? Mmmm... I like it but germans have tamed the raging bull just a little bit too much. Also it needs to lose some weight. And four wheel drive.

The Zonda is the one.

Personally, I'd take the MC12. I think the simple styling works and it seems to do quite well around the track. I also love the 6 litre V12 that's in the Enzo/MC12.

I used to really think the Enzo was ugly, but over time I've warmed a little on the car. The stark geometry of the fenders is growing on me and, after someone pointed it out, I've come to like the way the greenhouse rises over the car like the cockpit canopy on a fighter jet.

[yungtris77]

dont you mean enzo?

yeah pokey, my bad.thanks, i mean the enzo. so many damn names, they are getting me confused...

[cmcpokey]

take your time with responses, dont be so quick to post.... if you have a question with something, research it before you post. try not to post something without thinking about it. it makes life for everyone easier, and will allow us to take you more seriously as someone who either has knowledge or wants to learn.

[Guibo]

Close call for me between the Enzo and the Zonda F. In the end, I went with the Enzo. IMO, it just has that complete supercar appeal. The looks, the doors, techno-wizardry dialed to 12. It's not classically beautiful, but then few cars in this group are; it's still very stunning in real life.

As for what other cars should have made the cut, I'd love to see how the McLaren F1 and Veyron would do at the Nurburgring.

[yungtris77]

Close call for me between the Enzo and the Zonda F. In the end, I went with the Enzo. IMO, it just has that complete supercar appeal. The looks, the doors, techno-wizardry dialed to 12. It's not classically beautiful, but then few cars in this group are; it's still very stunning in real life.

As for what other cars should have made the cut, I'd love to see how the McLaren F1 and Veyron would do at the Nurburgring.

i think there is a vid showing the veyron lapping the ring. i will try to post the link for u. i dont think the veyron is as quick as these guys tho, cuz the nissa GTR beat its time and the GTR is no where near these top guns.

[yungtris77]

YouTube - Bugatti Veyron TESTING @ Nurburgring (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e17-yLgTWw0)
thats the veyron on the ring.just parts, not the full lap. i think that this car is too heavy to perform well on the ring. like someone said, its good for straight lines. its weight will affect cornering and breaking. also, i know for sure that when something that is heavy gains momentum and is going quickly, its very difficult to stop. i am not a veyron lover cuz i look at the full package. not just straight line perfomance.

[whiteballz]

But the Veyron IS a complete package, its not just for straight line speed.

[f6fhellcat13]

For outright 'Ring performance, I'd take a Porsche 956.
IIRC it holds the fastest 'Ring lap.

EV4R.

[clutch-monkey]

problem with a 956 is that you need a track big enough to suit it (well, so do the other cars here but still).
didn't stop one kicking my ass last time LOL

[LTSmash]

It's not perfect, but what would you rather have?

The Enzo? Nope, I'm sorry if you consider the Zonda a mess the Enzo is downright ugly. And it has a stupid gearbox. And the interior is nowhere near the Zonda's...

The Murcielago? Mmmm... I like it but germans have tamed the raging bull just a little bit too much. Also it needs to lose some weight. And four wheel drive.

The Zonda is the one.


Ferrer, can you read my mind? :D

[yungtris77]

the veyron is complete package? i beg to differ. i like the GT2. veyron is big, very quick but heavy and consumes fuel at an alarming rate. YouTube - James May does 253 Mph in a Veyron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da0YhGoyT9w&feature=related) at top speed, the fuel runs out in 12 minutes....

[clutch-monkey]

i'd imagine servicing the veyron is very excessive too, not that it would matter if you can afford to buy one.
iirc changing the tires was like $30k?

[whiteballz]

Er, I dont know if you've seen a veyron in person - Its f*cking tiny.

Its made of dark matter [/futurama refrence]

[yungtris77]

Er, I dont know if you've seen a veyron in person - Its f*cking tiny.

Its made of dark matter [/futurama refrence]

tiny? an S2000 is tiny. one of the older imprezas. they are tiny...

[cmcpokey]

not really tiny... just short.

[yungtris77]

yeah tru, its kinda short for its width. make it look like a midget kinda...

[whiteballz]

Okay - Its smaller than alot of other cars on the road.

[yungtris77]

Okay - Its smaller than alot of other cars on the road.

well, ok. what wud u say is its closest rival then?

[cmcpokey]

a UFO?

[whiteballz]

The Auto X bonne.

With a 1.8teee

[yungtris77]

a UFO?

good one.lol.

[cmcpokey]

The Auto X bonne.

With a 1.8teee

ftmfw!

[f6fhellcat13]

http://shrani.si/files/p72734157buia1.jpg

[NicFromLA]

not really tiny... just short.

It's just the right size.

[LTSmash]

tiny? an S2000 is tiny. one of the older imprezas. they are tiny...

I'm not sure you can compare a Veyon and S2000 over size differences. Just saying.

[wwgkd]

It's just the right size.

And weighs more than a stripper F150. I was actually kind of surprised at how loud it is inside, too. Car and Driver has it louder than an ACR (not saying that's really bad, mind you, just surprising.) I respect the car, but it's far from my favorite.

[Ferrer]

But the Veyron IS a complete package, its not just for straight line speed.
Maybe, but its top speed became so overhyped that everything else was irrelevant.

Ferrer, can you read my mind? :D
Great minds think alike. :)

[Guibo]

I wouldn't expect the Veyron to be fastest, just curious to see what it would do. Seemed awfully fast on the TG track. The Stig had it understeering pretty badly; perhaps Tiff's method of slight drifting (with the ESP off) might help to tighten the line, who knows.
For brakes, the Veyron seems pretty impressive from what I've seen. By Autocar's 0-100-0 stats, it stops faster than the CGT, Enzo, Zonda (S, not F), and Caterham CSR 260. It also did much better than the GT3 RS in C&D's fade resistance tests from 70 mph. Not the same thing as numerous 150-90 stops on a long lap on the 'Ring, but still very surprising results nevertheless. (The GT3 RS's distance grew after each stop, to +27 feet from the first one; the Veyron fluctuated around +/- 2 feet .)

[LeonOfTheDead]

the veyron is complete package? i beg to differ. i like the GT2. veyron is big, very quick but heavy and consumes fuel at an alarming rate. YouTube - James May does 253 Mph in a Veyron (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da0YhGoyT9w&feature=related) at top speed, the fuel runs out in 12 minutes....

You never saw how much the other cars consume at top speed.


i'd imagine servicing the veyron is very excessive too, not that it would matter if you can afford to buy one.
iirc changing the tires was like $30k?

yeah, and you have to hip the damaged/worn one directly to Molsheim.


I wouldn't expect the Veyron to be fastest, just curious to see what it would do. Seemed awfully fast on the TG track. The Stig had it understeering pretty badly; perhaps Tiff's method of slight drifting (with the ESP off) might help to tighten the line, who knows.
For brakes, the Veyron seems pretty impressive from what I've seen. By Autocar's 0-100-0 stats, it stops faster than the CGT, Enzo, Zonda (S, not F), and Caterham CSR 260. It also did much better than the GT3 RS in C&D's fade resistance tests from 70 mph. Not the same thing as numerous 150-90 stops on a long lap on the 'Ring, but still very surprising results nevertheless. (The GT3 RS's distance grew after each stop, to +27 feet from the first one; the Veyron fluctuated around +/- 2 feet .)

for high speed breaking, the Veyron has an advantage on some cars, since a big part of the breaking power is generated by the adjustable rear wing, so breaks are not going to be as stressed as on other cars. this without considering the Veyron weights two times the other cars.

for as regards the comparison with the GT3 RS, I suppose the Porsche wasn't equipped with carbo-ceramics breaks.

if it wasn't for the top speed, the Veyron would have been just the ultimate upgrade of a Bentley Continental GT.

[Drones]

On the Nurburgring, MC12 Corse will be faster :)
It is closer to the racing car.

[LeonOfTheDead]

On the Nurburgring, MC12 Corse will be faster :)
It is closer to the racing car.

it's actually better than the racing car having no air restrictors and bigger wing, just to say a couple of differences..

besides, it's not road legal (and I don't care if Edo Competition has made it road legal or ttried to do that).

[Guibo]

for as regards the comparison with the GT3 RS, I suppose the Porsche wasn't equipped with carbo-ceramics breaks.

That one was equipped with the carbon ceramics. Looking at the GT2 test, that GT3 RS may have been an anomaly. The GT2 was as consistent as the Veyron and on average stopped only 3 feet shorter than the Bugatti.

[kentuki]

I'd vote the Zonda F, but for an everyday car I really wouldn't think it would be a practical car to drive about, would be rather interesting but it really isn't that practical, for the fun adrenaline hair on fire excitement, it has to be the Zonda. Cause' James May cannot control that thing at all, lol

[henk4]

Interestingly, all five cars are owned by the same person, who wanted to know how fast they are. The whole story can be read in Sport Auto, in German...The owner seems to have more exotics, so there is more to follow.

[Bavarian_Power]

It's not perfect, but what would you rather have?

The Enzo? Nope, I'm sorry if you consider the Zonda a mess the Enzo is downright ugly. And it has a stupid gearbox. And the interior is nowhere near the Zonda's...

The Murcielago? Mmmm... I like it but germans have tamed the raging bull just a little bit too much. Also it needs to lose some weight. And four wheel drive.

The Zonda is the one.

Koenigsegg is far better in every way compared to all these other inferior cars. It has a wing now, so the stig shouldnt have problems keeping it on the track. These other pathetic excuses for "supercars" should take some lessons from Koenigsegg.

[whiteballz]

*sneezes*

I'm alergic fanboism.

[Bavarian_Power]

dont be mad that they crush lambo's. and dont spell boy with an i. Makes you look like a tard

[whiteballz]

ahahaha.

I love you.

[f6fhellcat13]

Koenigsegg is far better in every way compared to all these other inferior cars. It has a wing now, so the stig shouldnt have problems keeping it on the track. These other pathetic excuses for "supercars" should take some lessons from Koenigsegg.

Contrary to popular belief, Top Gear is not the be-all and end-all of automotive performance.

[Bavarian_Power]

agreed.

Who can touch its top speed?
Looks are not importaint, everyone likes diff things. Although the car is sexy.
Koenigsegg doesnt need more than a v-8 to make over 1000 hp.
It weighs 2800lbs roughly.

End

[f6fhellcat13]

The Koenigsegg is too heavy IMHO.

[Bavarian_Power]

are you crazy? 2800lbs and over 1k hp.
Smoke some more crack and shut up

[cmcpokey]

agreed.

Who can touch its top speed?
Looks are not importaint, everyone likes diff things. Although the car is sexy.
Koenigsegg doesnt need more than a v-8 to make over 1000 hp.
It weighs 2800lbs roughly.

End

seriously.... who cares about top speed? 14 year old boys? i know i did when i was 14.

i dont now. when i was 14 the F1 held those honors. how has the game advanced, 6mph? really? i care about that why?

[LTSmash]

Koenigsegg is far better in every way compared to all these other inferior cars. It has a wing now, so the stig shouldnt have problems keeping it on the track. These other pathetic excuses for "supercars" should take some lessons from Koenigsegg.

Ring Times

Final Times:
1. Maserati MC12 7:24.29
2. Pagani Zonda F 7:24.65
3. Ferrari Enzo 7:25.21
4. Porsche Carrera GT 7:28.71
5. Koenigsegg CCX 7:33.55

[kingofthering]

not really tiny... just short.

That's what she said.

but in all seriousness, I'd take the Enzo. The Porsche would overwhelm me, the Koenigsegg needs a Top Gear wing (:D), the MC12 is merely a rebadge with no rear-windows, and the Zonda is too Teutonic for me. No, I like me my traction controls and fancy gadgets.

[f6fhellcat13]

are you crazy? 2800lbs and over 1k hp.
Smoke some more crack and shut up
Don't judge crackheads until you've tried crack yourself.
I'd much rather have a Lotus, Caterham, or Atom. Supercars are for posing in and the occasional backroad blitz. If I want to drive fast, I want simplicity with added lightness.

[Bavarian_Power]

next time maybe they could use the CCXR Edition. I guess they had to use the bottom line version of the Koenigsegg to even out the playing field. I still stand by my previous statements.

[clutch-monkey]

can you even buy the CCXR yet?

i dunno, maybe they should have used the FXX then..

[Bavarian_Power]

1.5 million GBP

[Ferrer]

ahahaha.

I love you.
I reckon I laughed too.

and the Zonda is too Teutonic for me.
Too teutonic?

[LeonOfTheDead]

Koenigsegg is far better in every way compared to all these other inferior cars. It has a wing now, so the stig shouldnt have problems keeping it on the track. These other pathetic excuses for "supercars" should take some lessons from Koenigsegg.

the wing was available eve before of that crash.


agreed.

Who can touch its top speed?
Looks are not importaint, everyone likes diff things. Although the car is sexy.
Koenigsegg doesnt need more than a v-8 to make over 1000 hp.
It weighs 2800lbs roughly.

End

you can have 1500 hp from a 1,5 liter V6 engine, hire an old Honda engined Formula car.

or about 1000 hp from with any of those Group C cars, regardless of the cylinder's disposition.

or you can have thousands and thousands of hp from a I6 diesel engine, hire a boat.

do you know something about engines?


That's what she said.

but in all seriousness, I'd take the Enzo. The Porsche would overwhelm me, the Koenigsegg needs a Top Gear wing (:D), the MC12 is merely a rebadge with no rear-windows, and the Zonda is too Teutonic for me. No, I like me my traction controls and fancy gadgets.

as said above, the Top Gear Wing was nothing new.

[kingofthering]

Who can touch its top speed?

The Bugatti Veyron and the SSC Aero would like to have a word with you about that...



I reckon I laughed too.

Too teutonic?

It's got a German engine. I mean, that's like terrible, isn't it? If I remember correctly, the last time the Italians and the Germans worked together, that didn't end so well.

[Ferrer]

It's got a German engine. I mean, that's like terrible, isn't it? If I remember correctly, the last time the Italians and the Germans worked together, that didn't end so well.
This time though, it works.

[wwgkd]

It's got a German engine. I mean, that's like terrible, isn't it? If I remember correctly, the last time the Italians and the Germans worked together, that didn't end so well.

Lolz dude. Lolz.

[Bleeding Heart]

It's got a German engine. I mean, that's like terrible, isn't it? If I remember correctly, the last time the Italians and the Germans worked together, that didn't end so well.

Well... except for reliability, the Zonda excels in performance...

Same goes for the Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 and Gallardo LP560... They got german engineering and it works for them...

[Ferrer]

Well... except for reliability, the Zonda excels in performance...

Same goes for the Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 and Gallardo LP560... They got german engineering and it works for them...
The Murcielago doesn't. Well at least the big chunk of metal behind the seats is purely italian. And about 40 years old.

[Niko_Fx]

Koenigsegg doesnt need more than a v-8 to make over 1000 hp.


Is it a naturally aspirated V8? :rolleyes:

[Kitdy]

I doubt the current V12 shares much with the original one in the 350 GT.

[Ferrer]

I doubt the current V12 shares much with the original one in the 350 GT.
It can trace its roots back to the original 3.5 litre engine though.

Just like the current 6 and 3/4 litre Bentley engine is from the 50's.

[Bleeding Heart]

The Murcielago doesn't. Well at least the big chunk of metal behind the seats is purely italian. And about 40 years old.

Yeah, the engine is pretty much italian... But the rest of it (including the dimwitted AWD system) is german....

[Ferrer]

Yeah, the engine is pretty much italian... But the rest of it (including the dimwitted AWD system) is german....
Actually that's not the case since I believe it's based off the Diablo VT's four wheel drive system, a car which was introduced long before Audi bought Lamborghini.

The Murcielago is quite italian.

[Kitdy]

It can trace its roots back to the original 3.5 litre engine though.

Just like the current 6 and 3/4 litre Bentley engine is from the 50's.

Yeah I guess it was a bunch of evolutions that resulted in today's engine - I read Wiki after you said that. I am not an engineer, but engine evolution perturbs me to an extent as evolution as opposed to clean sheet design would in my mind be less than ideal as certain older less advanced design elements n may linger on longer than they should and if you are boring and stroking the engine and things like that this may upset the original design and make things less reliable or some such things.

Looking at the 6.75 is pretty key - in the 1981 Silver Spur it is 6750 cc with a bore or 104 mm and stroke of 99.1 mm with a compression ratio of 8:1. In the 2008 Arnage Final Series it is 6761 cc with a bore of 104.2 mm and stroke of 99.1 mm and a compression ratio of 7.8:1. It's still OHV - the block has gotta basically be the same as it was when the 6.2 was increased in size to 6.75 in 1968.

Now that is ghetto.

EDIT: What about the Murcielago did Audi have influence over? How German is it exactly? Ditto Gallardo.

[Bleeding Heart]

Actually that's not the case since I believe it's based off the Diablo VT's four wheel drive system, a car which was introduced long before Audi bought Lamborghini.

The Murcielago is quite italian.

Quite Italian still but not as much as that of the Diablo and Countach...

It is just a little too civilized nowadays...

Lamborghinis before like the countach and diablo were not very convenient to drive as an everyday car...

Now, if you have the money for the fuel. You can drive a Lamborghini murcielago everyday as a roadcar... It has Sat Nav, Airconditioning that actually works, etc...

As Jeremy Clarkson said, Audi is taking away Lamborghini's soul...

[LeonOfTheDead]

Quite Italian still but not as much as that of the Diablo and Countach...

It is just a little too civilized nowadays...

Lamborghinis before like the countach and diablo were not very convenient to drive as an everyday car...

Now, if you have the money for the fuel. You can drive a Lamborghini murcielago everyday as a roadcar... It has Sat Nav, Airconditioning that actually works, etc...

As Jeremy Clarkson said, Audi is taking away Lamborghini's soul...

back in the days of the Countach or of the Diablo, there weren't supercars with satnav, air conditioning and power everything.
AFAIK Audi just payed the Murcielago and hade a supervising role in the design. the car was still developed by the the people from the former Lamborghini company.

the Gallardo has been completely developed and designed at Ingolstad.

TBH, the only real crazy Lamborghini (apart from the LM) was the Countach. The Diablo is just a technical and stylistic evolution of it, but nothing was like the Countach when it originally came out.

besides, the Diablo isn't very problematic to use as an everyday car, apart from the expensive maintenance (just because it wasn't designed to face so high mileage, a problem also cars like the 550/575 had).
if wondering about the high power, it wasn't the only one with about 500 hp, and it even had the 4wd system, and even quite comfy interiors (considering the car it is). the only thing owners seriously complain about is the heavy clutch.
the F40 is a car not suitable for an everyday use, but those are two very different kind of cars.

[Ferrer]

Quite Italian still but not as much as that of the Diablo and Countach...

It is just a little too civilized nowadays...

Lamborghinis before like the countach and diablo were not very convenient to drive as an everyday car...

Now, if you have the money for the fuel. You can drive a Lamborghini murcielago everyday as a roadcar... It has Sat Nav, Airconditioning that actually works, etc...

As Jeremy Clarkson said, Audi is taking away Lamborghini's soul...
Well it may look like you could use it every day, but I think the Murcielago still has to come a long way to be really usable.

Yes the styling may have been tamed, but everything else remanis there. It's wider than the average european road, it has a massive 6.5 litre V12, it's four wheel drive system isn't very clever, it has masses of grip and when you lose it there's no way you are going to get it back in line. You're going to crash and die.

The Murcielago is the last old school supercar. It goes very fast, but it isn't really refined or clever. Which is good.

[Bleeding Heart]

Well it may look like you could use it every day, but I think the Murcielago still has to come a long way to be really usable.

Yes the styling may have been tamed, but everything else remanis there. It's wider than the average european road, it has a massive 6.5 litre V12, it's four wheel drive system isn't very clever, it has masses of grip and when you lose it there's no way you are going to get it back in line. You're going to crash and die.

The Murcielago is the last old school supercar. It goes very fast, but it isn't really refined or clever. Which is good.

The styling of the standard Murcie is tame, the LP640 looks much more agressive...

And yes, being unrefined is what a Lamborghini should be... It gives you the "Thrill of driving" like what you get from classic lambos...