High-end Car/Supercar of the Year 2008 [Voting]

[fisetdavid26]

Same as mass market.

This will be my last post for a while. I'm taking a hiatus from UCP, dunno how long I'll stay away, I'll see, but in all probability I will come back sooner or later, got too many friends here. Luckily I can talk to the great majority of you on MSN, those I don't have feel free to add me if you miss me too much (<3).

There are no real reasons behind me leaving, I'm just bored with the Internet in general. Hence why I haven't posted recently and the delayed voting threads (I didn't know Rocke postponed them to today, we were supposed to do them on the 17th I think, so the results for the COTY/SCOTY awards would have appeared on the main page).

It's been massive fun with you all in the 2 years I spent here, I expect to have fun here with you guys again in the future.

Sorry if this little 'outro' bothers anyone, but I felt like I shouldn't leave without telling anyone, sneaking out isn't my thing.

BTW, happy new year everyone!

[Ferrer]

Let’s go for the higher end of the market now.

Dodge Viper ACR. That’s the car that currently holds the (unofficial) record for production cars at the Nurburgring. Impressive achievement but it’s not been made by using any sort of space age trickery. Just the old recipe of less weight and more grip. So impressive it may be, but certainly no COTY.

Chevrolet Corvette ZR1. Just like the Viper this new Corvette has achieved some pretty impressive times in Germany’s most overrated track. But again if you look at the specifications there’s no surprise to be had. Low weight and high power mean some blistering performance. Well done Chevrolet, but you’ll need something else to win the COTY.

Cadillac CTS-V. Another Nurburgring fighter. It’s been timed at under 8 minutes, which is quite a feat for a big, fat luxury saloon. Well done Cadillac, you’ve beaten the Germans on their home turf. But just like the Viper and the Corvette there’s nothing surprising to be found in the fast Caddy.

Lexus IS-F. The IS-F is the first Lexus’ entry in that “I’m making a really fast sports saloon” club. And it seems to have missed the point a bit. Yes it does have a powerful engine, but it has far too many gears, it’s overweight and it looks like it’s been riced from the factory. Work in progress is probably a good way of describing it.

Nissan GT-R. The GT-R is certainly one of the cars of 2008. It was so overhyped it would have been embarrassing if it hadn’t delivered. But boy it did. The GT-R has the sort of performance that just weren’t thought possible with its stats. And it achieves them by means no one had explored before. Brilliant.

Infiniti G37. Ah, the good ol’ Skyline. Here it’s seriously overshadowed not only by its rivals but by it’s big brother, the GT-R. It’s not even a especially compelling executive saloon/coupe compared to the established opposition.

Lexus LS600h. Another left-field nomination, the Japanese hybrid luxury saloon. It has many gadgets and some clever technology but then so do its rivals on the market. Good car, just not worthy of a COTY.

HSV W427. Or the four door Corvette Z06. Scarcity and price detract from its possibilities, and when there’s the CTS-V on the list of nominees too there’s little a sporty four door saloon can do. Will remain a halo model only.

Falcon Turbo and FPV Falcon F6. Like the Holden it’s overshadowed by the CTS-V, but at least the Ford do have some good points, like the turbocharged straight six and the affordable price. It’s a good choice for a fast family saloon, but it doesn’t a stand out as a possible winner like others do.

Ferrari 430 Scuderia. The ultimate Dino is also one of the fastest Ferraris ever. But is that enough to win the COTY? I’m afraid not, there’s nothing really special or ground breaking about it, and it seems like Italians tried to emulate the Japanese with the technology. And while it makes sense in a Japanese car it looks completely out of place in a Ferrari.

Maserati GranTurismo. Maserati is back in business definitely with this new 2+2 grand tourer. But it is far from prefect and could be effectively called the Maserati Dueporte. Maseratis usually don’t make for good COTYs and this is no exception.

Audi R8. This is probably the first time ever where an Audi was the cheaper version of anything. Even so while it’s a very decent sportscar it doesn’t really help it’s case with any outstanding feature. Just the usual, it does what it is supposed to do, nothing more nothing less.

BMW M3. Unlike any other car in the list, I’ve actually driven this one. And I have to say it’s a very good car indeed. It does everything you expect it to do. Goes like stink, handles beautifully and in four door guise it’s almost practical. But that’s exactly the problem with the car, it’s not impressive of surprising. And some of the M magic is gone.

Alfa Romeo 8C What can we say about the Alfa that hasn’t been said before? It’s beautiful, goes fast and handles a bit like a truck. It is hopelessly impractical and very expensive. It’s a 21st century Montreal then, and I’m sorry but a 21st century Montreal isn’t enough to win the award.

So in the end it has to be the Nissan GT-R. I don’t particularly like it very much but it’s by far the most impressive high end car of 2008, and one of the most impressive cars the we’ve seen for a long time. Good job Nissan.

[wwgkd]

I wouldn't really say that the Scuderia is emulating Japanese technology. All of it's tech is derived either from F1 or the FXX program, while the Japanese tech such as in the GTR has different sources. Besides, how many of the high tech high electronic content cars handle well after you turn off the aids? Pretty much just the Scud.

[Kitdy]

Very good writeup Ferrer - loved reading all of it.

GT-R is a good call - I chose the ZR1 however. I think we discussed this before but maybe I shoulda went GT-R or not voted.

Ah well.

[Ferrer]

I wouldn't really say that the Scuderia is emulating Japanese technology. All of it's tech is derived either from F1 or the FXX program, while the Japanese tech such as in the GTR has different sources. Besides, how many of the high tech high electronic content cars handle well after you turn off the aids? Pretty much just the Scud.
Yes, I all I wanted to imply is that Ferraris don't need five-way traction controls for instance. A simple on and off button would be enough.

[Cyco]

Ignoring that you can switch it off all the way, but unless you are a super driver you are better with it on?

[Ferrer]

Ignoring that you can switch it off all the way, but unless you are a super driver you are better with it on?
That's where my on and off comes. If you want to be safe have it on, if you want to die switch it off.

It's a Ferrari not a Fiat we're talking about here so there will be always a degree of danger when you drive it like it was intended to.

[Cyco]

Ferraris are used at many track days, where beating your friends (outright or lap times) is far more important than outright lap times.

Companies like Ferrari know this and as such sell a product to this market - the Manetenno.

If Ferrari didn't offer it someone else would, and they would (slowly) erode Ferrari's market share. This is the same reason that the Scud was created.

Quick point about your summation of the GTR
It was so overhyped it would have been embarrassing if it hadn’t delivered. But boy it did. The GT-R has the sort of performance that just weren’t thought possible with its stats. And it achieves them by means no one had explored before. Brilliant.
Either it was over-hyped and so it didn't achieve the results promised, or it was just intensely hyped.

[Ferrer]

Ferraris are used at many track days, where beating your friends (outright or lap times) is far more important than outright lap times.

Companies like Ferrari know this and as such sell a product to this market - the Manetenno.

If Ferrari didn't offer it someone else would, and they would (slowly) erode Ferrari's market share. This is the same reason that the Scud was created.
Of course these are all market demands, just like flappy paddle shifts or the entire Ferrari California.

But here we aren't discussing market performance or convenience which I'm sure the Scud is very good at (it's a Ferrari after all).

My point is all this electronic trickery shouldn't be needed in a Ferrari. Anyone who buys a Ferrari (or a sportscar for that matter) should be prepared to accept a certain degree of dificulty and danger, in my opinion.

Quick point about your summation of the GTR
Either it was over-hyped and so it didn't achieve the results promised, or it was just intensely hyped.
Well I'm not very good at english as it turns out... :p

[teatako]

Oh, I don´t know about the GTR being the car of the year. The GTR worries me because of the message it sends: Big Brother is watching you in new ways, and your private property is now controlled in some ways by us. A dangerous message, to say the least

I´m talking about this limiting speeds off the racetracks included in the GPS and voiding warranties if you use this or that. If the CIA designed a sports car, this would be it. Coups d´etat sold separately.

I voted the 8C because it proves modern safe cars can still be classically beautiful, which to me is a heartening,carefree message in this time of superfluous surface entertainment and Hot-Wheels styling. And indeed of diminishing liberties and economic turmoil.

[Ferrer]

I´m talking about this limiting speeds off the racetracks included in the GPS
All cars in Japan are limited to 180km/h.

[teatako]

That´s a safety feature. But that´s not the point. The point is the feeling of "I know where you are" Today it is on or off the track. Tomorrow, who knows?

[Ferrer]

Well yes. But that doesn't detract from the fact it's an astonishing car.

In my opinion COTYs shouldn't be about favorite cars.

[teatako]

It is indeed. But if you´re alienating basic rights by purchasing a luxury item, it can hardly be considered COTY. That message it sends goes beyond personal preferences, IMO.I essentially agree with you in the sense the GTR pushes forward and it is a technological marvel, but still chose the Alfa because its spirit is the one I would want in a High End Car Of the Year.

EDIT: in the end, its not a choice for us two to make, but of the entire UCP community, and none of us is going to let himself be convinced. I have the feeling your choice will win anyway so :P :)

[LeonOfTheDead]

Since it didn't make it to the voting thread, I will just post my own personal vote: Fisker Karma.

about the discussion on Ferrari and its "new rute", it's been 10 years or more since they started offering new technical options that people like Ferrer, as a reference, don't like.
as Ferrer is saying, a Ferrari buyder shouldn't want such things.
but since a lot of years are passed since the first F1 transmission was offered, I suppose Ferrari buyer and owners are no longer interested in those points raised by Ferrer, and that's why those things make now sense.
it's stupidly simple.
people want them and buy them. people buying a product create the fuzz around a brand.
what probably Ferrer, and perhaps even myself, is referring to is his own idea of Ferrari, based on what he knows about Ferrari.
the thing is, that Ferrari is probably gone.

[teatako]

Is the Karma in production?

About Ferrari, I think it´s a little simpler and at the same time more complicated than that. Ferrari sells its Formula 1 history. If they didn´t have that, they would be just another Italian supercar maker. So they have to constantly give the impression they´re adapting F1 race car technology to the road.

The other side of the coin is the world has changed, and so has the worldwide distribution of Ferrari´s demand. There´s new money in the Middle East, in Russia and in China. and a whole lot of it.They no longer cater exclusively to the European gentleman whose daughter dances in the Bal des Débutantes or the American celeb. And for them there´s way more and way cheaper flights now. You no longer need a GT car for business travel like you used to.
So yes, that Ferrari is perhaps gone.

[wwgkd]

While a lot of people focus on the traction control function of the Manettino, remember that it actually controls a lot more than that. Suspension settings, transmission, e-diff, etc. It's not just varying the level of traction control intervention, it's changing the attitude and handling of the car all in one convenient location instead of the confusion you get trying to adjust the GTR for instance.

[Ferrer]

That's the problem, I don't want my Ferrari to change of attitude.

[wwgkd]

That's the problem, I don't want my Ferrari to change of attitude.

Don't appreciate being able to adjust from track to track?

[Ferrer]

Don't appreciate being able to adjust from track to track?
I doubt the different modes are for different tracks.

It's like the SMG gearbox with a million different ferocity settings. It's just not needed.

[wwgkd]

I doubt the different modes are for different tracks.

It's like the SMG gearbox with a million different ferocity settings. It's just not needed.

Not necessarily different tracks, I should have worded that differently I guess. The greater variety of performance oriented settings on the scud allow you to go from a rougher back road to a smooth track surface to one with more bumps while achieve the best results on each. Having talked to an owner, it does make a difference when you're going from a track day to a back road, and it's an easy turn of a dial. The guy I talked to also has an M3 (his "family car") and said he thought the tuning of that was much less simplistic in changes of environments and thought it detracted from the driving experience.