You know there's something wrong with the world...

[Ferrer]

...when Audis are topping sales charts.

Audi A4 outsells BMW 3-Series in Germany - Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/19/audi-a4-outsells-bmw-3-series-in-germany/)

[teatako]

Behold the power of styling.

[Kitdy]

The apocalypse is near. 3-series being beat in class? End times for sure.

[NSXType-R]

That's what happens when you make ugly looking cars.

Congrats Audi.

[ScionDriver]

There really has been a shift on the Cockometer. But I didn't know there were than many cocks in the world.

[roosterjuicer]

i prefer bimmers to audi's. that being said, i think Audi's are better looking, and from the few of both i have been in (not recently) i have found that the audi's have nicer interiors. how do they compare price and power wise?

[ruim20]

Behold the power of styling.

This.

[s-d]

BMW over Audi any time! The A4 is like a less roomy version of a Skoda Octavia. And it's FWD! fail.

[f6fhellcat13]

All this talk of styling would be correct except for one thing: The Grille.
I have not personally noticed this shift. The number of sh*theads driving 3s vs the number driving A4s is about 50/50.

[henk4]

BMW over Audi any time! The A4 is like a less roomy version of a Skoda Octavia. And it's FWD! fail.
and the BMW has even less room....so buy a Skoda Superb for the same price....

[Ferrer]

All this talk of styling would be correct except for one thing: The Grille.
Exactly.

and the BMW has even less room....so buy a Skoda Superb for the same price....
I remember riding in an old Superb taxi time ago. Superb rear legroom indeed.

[s-d]

and the BMW has even less room....so buy a Skoda Superb for the same price....

Correct, but the 3-Series is RWD! :)

[Kitdy]

Correct, but the 3-Series is RWD! :)

I think henk might prefer FWD but I'm not sure on this.

[henk4]

Correct, but the 3-Series is RWD! :)
so is the Smart....

[Ferrer]

I think henk might prefer FWD but I'm not sure on this.
I can tell you he does quite...

But multitasking is better. :)

[coolieman1220]

wtf?

BMW > Audi

anyday

[NSXType-R]

wtf?

BMW > Audi

anyday

Fail.

:D

Audi is the only carmaker where I can be somewhat confident in saying that the entire lineup is at least pretty.

[Rockefella]

I like 'em both.

[wwgkd]

Audis are ok for what they do, but driving them just isn't as fun as BMWs. Still, being the best selling has never meant being the best.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Fail.

:D

Audi is the only carmaker where I can be somewhat confident in saying that the entire lineup is at least pretty.

it's not that the entire line-up is at least pretty, it's just that it is made of only one car, wityh one style, just stretched, heightened, lowered...the only iteration I would consider is the S5, and nothing more.

still modern BMW are maybe even uglier.

[henk4]

since Audi is selling the Q7 and BMW the X6, what are we talking about?

[NSXType-R]

it's not that the entire line-up is at least pretty, it's just that it is made of only one car, wityh one style, just stretched, heightened, lowered...the only iteration I would consider is the S5, and nothing more.

still modern BMW are maybe even uglier.

Then you could say the same for Aston Martin too.

[Ferrer]

Then you could say the same for Aston Martin too.
Hummer and Aston Martin are the ultimate choice if you are interested in companies where all cars look exactly the same.

[f6fhellcat13]

since Audi is selling the Q7 and BMW the X6, what are we talking about?
The A4 and the 3-Series.

The Audis have a greater snob quotient than the Bimmers because they are chintzier, and shiny flashy things attract the average idiot.

Pieter, I'm assuming you prefer the A4 because of its optional(standard) drivetrian configuration. (not for the above reason;))
Though I guess the suspension would be too hard for your liking. If you were to pick a German car (none of the comfy French stuff) of some sort which would it be?

[Matra et Alpine]

If you were to pick a German car (none of the comfy French stuff) of some sort which would it be?YouTube - German Cancan - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=H3T3Fv-d-HM&feature=related)
I'm guessing .... YouTube - The New Citroën C5 - Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQnPWjK5pE)
YouTube - Interview with Klaus - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw6SvXI4P-4&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Ursula - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=icnmGqwyBvk&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Gertrude - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M15Y-H8yeK4&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Wilhelm - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kKnCozxLBhE&feature=related)
:)

[NSXType-R]

Hummer and Aston Martin are the ultimate choice if you are interested in companies where all cars look exactly the same.

That's a good point. I never really think about Hummer because it's not really a brand I ever think about at all. Goes to show how much I like the SUVs. :D

[f6fhellcat13]

YouTube - German Cancan - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=H3T3Fv-d-HM&feature=related)
I'm guessing .... YouTube - The New Citroën C5 - Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQnPWjK5pE)
YouTube - Interview with Klaus - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw6SvXI4P-4&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Ursula - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=icnmGqwyBvk&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Gertrude - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M15Y-H8yeK4&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Wilhelm - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kKnCozxLBhE&feature=related)
:)
Unfortunately my computer doesn't have flash atm, bceause it crashed yesterday. :(
But just looking at the titles was quite funny. ;)

[NSXType-R]

YouTube - German Cancan - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=H3T3Fv-d-HM&feature=related)
I'm guessing .... YouTube - The New Citroën C5 - Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GMQnPWjK5pE)
YouTube - Interview with Klaus - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw6SvXI4P-4&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Ursula - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=icnmGqwyBvk&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Gertrude - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M15Y-H8yeK4&feature=related)
YouTube - Interview with Wilhelm - Citroën C5, Unmistakeably German (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kKnCozxLBhE&feature=related)
:)

Since when did the Germans own Citroen, in the interview with Klaus?

[Ferrer]

The A4 and the 3-Series.
The A6 and the TT also outsell their rivals.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Thus why Cocks drive Audis, i suppose.

There are more of them......

[henk4]

If you were to pick a German car (none of the comfy French stuff) of some sort which would it be?
Ford Mondeo

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Isn't that technically belgian?

[henk4]

Isn't that technically belgian?

Ford Cologne/Colon/Koeln

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I thought it was made in Gent/Ghent.

my mistake.

And regardless, moot point as the actual company is American.

[henk4]

I thought it was made in Gent/Ghent.

my mistake.

And regardless, moot point as the actual company is American.
yep, you cannot buy a Swedish car any more these days.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Or, Indeed, a 100% Australian one.

[Matra et Alpine]

Since when did the Germans own Citroen, in the interview with Klaus?
They don't.
THe whole series of ads are taknig the piss out of the "german engineering excellence" and the kind of people who buy BMW/AUDI/VW for the engineering etc etc. Wouldn't spot the difference in the C5.

It's called humour .... not humor :) :) :)

[Ferrer]

yep, you cannot buy a Swedish car any more these days.
This may change soon.

Not that anyone seems to want to.

[DirtLuck]

i love the new TT's and S4's

[Matra et Alpine]

How many TTs are in the states ?
They're so common here they gone out of fashion and the look has aged even quicker.

TTs are now definately a hairdressers only car in the UK !!!!!

[Ferrer]

TTs are now definately a hairdressers only car in the UK !!!!!
Now?

I thought it always had been. Especially the original.

[Matra et Alpine]

true, but not the original VR6 engined Quattro.
It was a real car.
However, now it's nothing special and condemned to carry shampoo and hair conditioner :)

[Ferrer]

true, but not the original VR6 engined Quattro.
It was a real car.
However, now it's nothing special and condemned to carry shampoo and hair conditioner :)
I'd rather have a Mk IV R32. Less embarrasing.

The new one may still have the same image as the old one, but at least it has some interesting steel/aluminium construction.

[Matra et Alpine]

? :( Golf after the Mk2 were just huge lardy ass lumps that needed excess power to get back to near the performance of the GTi with NONE of the fun.

And Quattro drive makes VW "motion" drive seem a kiddies toy :)

[Ferrer]

? :( Golf after the Mk2 were just huge lardy ass lumps that needed excess power to get back to near the performance of the GTi with NONE of the fun.

And Quattro drive makes VW "motion" drive seem a kiddies toy :)
Erm, the TT V6 and the R32 are exactly the same mechanically...

[Kitdy]

Why didn't VW just use Quattro under a different name instead of having their own program?

Also, is what I hear about Quattro being the best in the business true?

[Ferrer]

Why didn't VW just use Quattro under a different name instead of having their own program?

Also, is what I hear about Quattro being the best in the business true?
There are no such differences.

It all depends on the mechanical layout of the cars. For tranverse engined cars there's the Haldex system, which is mainly front wheel drive and when front wheels lose traction then it sends power to the back ones. For longitudinal engined there's the "traditional" four wheel drive system which used to be 50/50, now 40/60 front to rear and that it can also vary the amount of power given to each axle (IIRC the mid engined Audis also work in similar way).

The name doesn't matter.

As for best or not, well I personally think that four wheel drive isn't necessary in a road car, but as far as handling is concerned there are far more advanced japanese systems.

[Matra et Alpine]

Erm, the TT V6 and the R32 are exactly the same mechanically...
In what countries ?

Over here the R32 was the 4Motion all-wheel-drive system. A 3rd-gen Haldex with a pronounced front-drive bias. The quattro system has always used a Torsen. THe Torsen is much better in performance cars.

I was not aware that there were ever any variants for differnet countries, so can we confirm preceilsy whcih R32 you refer to ? I may be wrong if they've done an improvement on the awful Haldex.

Hard to say Kitdy, it is undoubtedly the best for "normal use" , but the much more advanced computer controlled multi-diffs of the likes of the Scooby WRX and the EVOs are "better" but much more complex and expensive and way over the top for requirments of daily driving - even FAST daily driving.

EDIT: See your response. There is a whole world of difference in handling ability fo a system which witches to RWD when the fronts are slipping and one that biases the rears well before then. The R32 is "safer" but the Quattro system is faster/better.

[Ferrer]

In what countries ?

Over here the R32 was the 4Motion all-wheel-drive system. A 3rd-gen Haldex with a pronounced front-drive bias. The quattro system has always used a Torsen. THe Torsen is much better in performance cars.

I was not aware that there were ever any variants for differnet countries, so can we confirm preceilsy whcih R32 you refer to ? I may be wrong if they've done an improvement on the awful Haldex.
There are no "variants". :confused:

The TT is a Golf, and as such it has a tranverse engine and as a result a Haldex-based four wheel drive system.

Quattro or not.

[Matra et Alpine]

CHeers Ferrer, went and did some research based on your answers.
Didn't realise the TT uses the Haldex LSC :(
All marketing/PR folks should be strung up for ever calling the abortion "quattro".
Thanks for the chance to learn :)

So Kitdy, minor correction. PROPER QUattro drive with Torsen is far superior to Haldex based for all the reasons above. Modern Quattro using the Haldex are as Ferrer says poor mans solution from VW :) :)

[Kitdy]

Props guys, we have just demonstrated UCPs capacity to educate rather well.

[Ferrer]

In the end though, all is well.

Report: Audi may have passed Mercedes in Q1 global sales, but BMW is still #1 — Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/13/report-audi-may-have-passed-mercedes-in-q1-global-sales-but-bm/)

[Commodore GS/E]

I don't like Audi anymore somehow. Their single frame styling was nice for some years, but now, it's ´growing a beard. A long, grey one. Just look at the recent A3 facelift- an ordinary person would have a hard time to spot the difference. Audi's simply missing the innovation somehow. It's not helping that all cocks seem to have moved from Bimmers to Audis, either. And then there is all this 'premium' advertising... just no.
But i seriously can't understand how Audi could overtake Merc. Maybe the b-segment sales (Audi A3) ?

[LeonOfTheDead]

The Q5 is selling relatively well while the GLK is a rare sight on the road. Also the A3 has basically no competition from Mercedes as both the A-Klasse and B-Klasse are smaller or different and are also selling pretty poorly. Weirdly enough I was expecting to see much more C-Klasse of the latest gen, and quite less A4 too.

Thinking about the 3rd (or 4th?!) restyling of the A3, I just can't stop laughing.

[Ferrer]

I'd say that precisely, stupid grille side, the aesthetics are Audi's strong point. Surely they've cocked up in some occasions, for isntance the R8 simply doesn't work from the design point of view in my opinion, but all in all contemporary Audis look modern, elegant and are even quite stylish. Compared to Bangled Bimmers and dull Mercs, Audis certainly have the upper hand in this aspect.

Everything else though...

[Commodore GS/E]

the aesthetics are Audi's strong point

A5 vs E Coupe anyone?

[Ferrer]

You caught me there. Honestly aesthetically I like both, and both have their weakest points at the front.

BMWs are nowhere aesthetically, compared to Mercedes-Benz and Audi. I guess it is the price for trying to be different.

[Commodore GS/E]

Agree. But then, my 14 year old brother (and much of his classmates) see the BMW X6/ 5er GT as extraordinary cool cars :D

[LeonOfTheDead]

Agree. But then, my 14 year old brother (and much of his classmates) see the BMW X6/ 5er GT as extraordinary cool cars :D

So adolescence is still a major problem I see... ;)

I can agree with Audis looking quite modern, I guess they just interpreted the right way the pebble/macintosh theme when it arrived a few years back. On the other hand I also think that being all equally looking they are now just modernly old. :rolleyes:

Eventually, I don't understand what's the problem with Mercedes', apart from the smaller models, the only car I never quite liked was the previous C-Klasse, mainly because of the headlights (sorry Rob :)). Not even considering SUVs (I'm fine with the M, the GLK is horrible though. The G is not an SUV).

[Ferrer]

I think there's nothing fundamentally wrong with Benzes. Yes, they have some details which could be improved, like the headlamps on the new E-class. The main problem they could have is dullness. And I say could, because depending on what want in a car dullness could be good, or at leas better than other options.

[Commodore GS/E]

And I say could, because depending on what want in a car dullness could be good, or at leas better than other options.
great point, ferrer. I think a flashy E-Class would not sell very well. After all, i don't even think that Merc guys would cross-shop with Audi (as those have different styles and target groups).

[DesmoRob]

lol no offense taken Leon. I'm used to people not having the same taste in cars as me. I mean, I sold the C class for a different car that people probably hate a lot more. While enthusiasts may not approve, normal folks always seem to compliment me on the cars I've had. The Merc was a grandpa's car, but I wanted to experience a MB. I'm glad I did, because now I know I will definitely consider another (maybe not a c class) in the future. As for the Audi, its the perfect car for my lifestyle right now, whether I'm enjoying the back roads, or driving up the mountain with my snowboard in the back. I could've had plenty other cars that would be considered far cooler and less of a cock's car, but none of those other vehicles could offer what the TT does. So, I'm just going to make it more performance oriented over the next while, until maybe even some UCPers will approve of it :p.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I'd have gone for a Z3 Coupe, but fair enough, the main problem with the TT was its typical buyer (which doesn't post on UCP either ;)), and possibly Audi's aims. It's a nice everyday coupe, not as large as the 3er coupe, not as "old" as the CLK.

Z3 Coupe, had to say it again.

[Ferrer]

I like the Z3 Coupe very much as well. This was from a time when BMW made good looking cars even those, like the Z3 Coupe, that were different. The problem with the TT is not only the people that drive them, plenty of imbeciles drive good cars too and there's little we can do about that, but that for a sportscar it not only has the wrong layout but it is little more than a Golf actually.

If money was a problem I would've chosen a Mazda MX-5.

[Commodore GS/E]

The old Merc Coupes were quite cool...like the SEC or the CE. And then of course the Evo models :) back in the days, mercs had tons of style. The E coupe is (in my eyes) the first real step back to the old greatness that the Benzes once had. Hopefully Merc will carry on. But please, avoid hideous crossovers :(

[LeonOfTheDead]

I never mention "sportscar" and "TT" in the same post. :D

[Ferrer]

The old Merc Coupes were quite cool...like the SEC or the CE. And then of course the Evo models :) back in the days, mercs had tons of style. The E coupe is (in my eyes) the first real step back to the old greatness that the Benzes once had. Hopefully Merc will carry on. But please, avoid hideous crossovers :(
I agree completely. I've always had a soft spot for 2 door Mercs. I've always found them very elegant and hansome. Even the last CLK, while too narrow and tall, had something going for it. I like the new E-Class Coupe and I certainly wouldn't mind having one.

I never mention "sportscar" and "TT" in the same post. :D
Yes, I guess that avoids a lot of confusion and unfulfilled expectations... :p

Even though, if I wanted a car that looked like a sportscar but didn't drive like one, I'd rather a Brera. :)

[LeonOfTheDead]

I thought I liked the new Giulietta.
Today I saw the official shots, and saw also many references to the Brera.

All at once everything was clear, I was feeling right with the world and the wolrd was fine with me, I was only missing approximately 25.000 €.

Donations well accepted.

[DesmoRob]

I'd have gone for a Z3 Coupe, but fair enough, the main problem with the TT was its typical buyer (which doesn't post on UCP either ;)), and possibly Audi's aims. It's a nice everyday coupe, not as large as the 3er coupe, not as "old" as the CLK.

Z3 Coupe, had to say it again.

Those may be common where you're from, but trust me I searched high and low with no luck on finding one here. On top of that, they didn't have all-wheel drive, which helps greatly for the winter in my area. I did consider it though.


Even though, if I wanted a car that looked like a sportscar but didn't drive like one, I'd rather a Brera.

I wish those sold here.

[Ferrer]

I thought I liked the new Giulietta.
Today I saw the official shots, and saw also many references to the Brera.

All at once everything was clear, I was feeling right with the world and the wolrd was fine with me, I was only missing approximately 25.000 €.

Donations well accepted.
Having seen the new Giulietta pics I have to echo this.

It has a very Brera-ish feeling.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Those may be common where you're from, but trust me I searched high and low with no luck on finding one here. On top of that, they didn't have all-wheel drive, which helps greatly for the winter in my area. I did consider it though.

Actually I have seen just a few Z3 Coupes over the years, which is a shame. The main problem over here was the engine size, no less than 2.8 liters (petrol), which is a pretty big engine for our standards.
The awd argument is right though, so the TT just gained one point. :)

[group c n b man]

I'm not entirely surprised by this. Most reviews conclude that while the BMW may be better to drive and be slightly more fuel efficient, it isn't as good an all rounder as the Audi. Audis seem to be better in terms of practically, strength and overall goodness. The newer 3 series is slightly more of a poser's car than before with many versions having Auto boxes and Creme Leather interior. The Audi is more a working man's car.

[Ferrer]

Wut...?

[Ferrer]

No, it still won't drive as a BMW, I'm sorry (http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2010/06/pink-audi-a1-art-car-by-hirst-fetches.html).

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I shall echo the first comment:

"Damien Hirst, Elton John and Audi; All overrated"