Audi TT RS

[Kitdy]

Well, it has been leaked. It apparently has a direct injected 340 hp / 332 lb.-ft. of torque TT 2.5L I5 which I assume is based off a bank of the S6's or R8 V10's engine. Pics below with more pics/info here (http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/02/audi-tt-rs-with-340hp-25turbo-official.html).

[LeonOfTheDead]

it's more likely an I5, not an I6, definitely too long for its bonnet

[Kitdy]

it's more likely an I5, not an I6, definitely too long for its bonnet

That was a typo.

[Ferrer]

Nice to see a manual and five cylinder engine in an Audi again. Other than that not really interested.

it's more likely an I5, not an I6, definitely too long for its bonnet
Well the Freelander does have a straight six mounted tranversely under the bonnet, so who knows.

[Kitdy]

Ferrer, you are responsible for making me liking Audis less/disliking them to an extent.

This one is ugly and probably fat and turbocharged. Those front air intakes are SL65-level goofy. This is one of those cases where "buy a Mustang GT (and maybe mod it)" seems to be the right answer. Not luxurious/comparable in many ways, but somehow more proper in my eyes.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Nice to see a manual and five cylinder engine in an Audi again. Other than that not really interested.

Well the Freelander does have a straight six mounted tranversely under the bonnet, so who knows.

that's slightly bigger, and the TT always suffered for a cramped engine bay.
also, they don't have a V12 to cut in half, apart from the Murcielago's one, which is assembled by hand and as expensive as hell (even if I would have really liked to see an revving I6 good for about 300 hp without a turbo/supercharger).

oh, and that rear spoiler il simply out of place. same for the front ir intakes, can't like them and I know I must get used to them 'cause they will appear on every RS model

[Ferrer]

Ferrer, you are responsible for making me liking Audis less/disliking them to an extent.

This one is ugly and probably fat and turbocharged. Those front air intakes are SL65-level goofy. This is one of those cases where "buy a Mustang GT (and maybe mod it)" seems to be the right answer. Not luxurious/comparable in many ways, but somehow more proper in my eyes.
Or if you really need a turbocharged Golf... buy a Seat Leon.

[Kitdy]

My philosophy is in a way becoming avoid all modern VW cars except Lamborghini (/Porsche if they count as VAG). I don't even like the Golf and I think the badge engineering at SEAT and Skoda and Audi is pretty silly.

[LeonOfTheDead]

My philosophy is in a way becoming avoid all modern VW cars except Lamborghini (/Porsche if they count as VAG). I don't even like the Golf and I think the badge engineering at SEAT and Skoda and Audi is pretty silly.

the Leon proved to be very fast though, eve a little too much track oriented in the Cupra versions, so it has a peculiarity, but I still agree with you.tbh, I would avoid everything except the Murcielago and GT3RS

[Ferrer]

My philosophy is in a way becoming avoid all modern VW cars except Lamborghini (/Porsche if they count as VAG). I don't even like the Golf and I think the badge engineering at SEAT and Skoda and Audi is pretty silly.
Indeed, indeed. Altough some Seats are pretty terrific value for money, if a little dull.

[Kitdy]

the Leon proved to be very fast though, eve a little too much track oriented in the Cupra versions, so it has a peculiarity, but I still agree with you.tbh, I would avoid everything except the Murcielago and GT3RS

What's wrong with the Gallardo, standard 911, and Cayman?

[Ferrer]

What's wrong with the Gallardo, standard 911, and Cayman?
Well the Gallardo is an expensive R8, but the others are fine for me.

[Kitdy]

Well the Gallardo is an expensive R8, but the others are fine for me.

Yeah Leon, for that matter, what's the problem with the R8? I had somehow forgotten it.

Ferrer isn't it the other way around though and the R8 is a "bargain" Gallardo?

I thought that there actually was a lot different - is it the same chassis?

[NicFromLA]

My philosophy is in a way becoming avoid all modern VW cars except Lamborghini (/Porsche if they count as VAG). I don't even like the Golf and I think the badge engineering at SEAT and Skoda and Audi is pretty silly.

I have to disagree. I've really liked every Audi I've been in over the last few years. While not as exciting as a BMW to drive, I think they're beautifully built and have excellent paint work; I think the A8/S8 is by far the best in it's class. I've had good experiences with VWs as well. I've never driven a Seat or a Skoda so I can't say. I'm not a fan of the Bentley Conti, I love the current Lambos and the Veyron.

In terms of this car I like it except for the rear wing.

[Kitdy]

I have to disagree. I've really liked every Audi I've been in over the last few years. While not as exciting as a BMW to drive, I think they're beautifully built and have excellent paint work; I think the A8/S8 is by far the best in it's class. I've had good experiences with VWs as well. I've never driven a Seat or a Skoda so I can't say. I'm not a fan of the Bentley Conti, I love the current Lambos and the Veyron.

In terms of this car I like it except for the rear wing.

I have driven only one VW car so your view is more illuminating, but no less, I think that pretty much all the German Big Luxury 3 have are "beautifully built and have excellent paint work." Ferrer has taught me of the dead steering feel of udis- maybe indicative of luxury cars but I'd wager Bimmers are better to drive (it seems you agree) and if you want mad luxury you go to Benz - Audi I see as somewhat in the middle and not really as good as either of the other two.

As for the A8 leading the class in your view, I think that's surprising to hear as the engine seems maybe a bit small/lacking in torque in comparison to the fire breathers AMG and BMW have to offer but I could be wrong I also just think of the other two offerings as better for some reason. I'd have pegged the S-Class 1, 7 Series 2, and the A8 bringing up the rear, although this is speculation.

What was it about the A8/S8 that you valued so highly and why would you put it as class leader?

I am not sure you have to drive SEATs or Skodas as they are just badge engineered VWs with different interiors and potentially other things (I am not too knowledgeable on these two).

[Ferrer]

I've really liked every Audi I've been in over the last few years.
You can't be serious. Surely they are very efficient. And fast. And have lots of grip. And look quite nice. And the fit and finish is very good.

But they are so... I don't know... dead is probably a good word for it.

What was it about the A8/S8 that you valued so highly and why would you put it as class leader?
The only thing interesting about the A8 is the aluminium spaceframe. But the Jag XJ is also made of aluminium, so bye bye Audi.

I am not sure you have to drive SEATs or Skodas as they are just badge engineered VWs with different interiors and potentially other things (I am not too knowledgeable on these two).
They are similar indeed, but sometimes there are noticeable differences, like for instance the diving position, or some diferences in the suspension tuning.

[Kitdy]

The only thing interesting about the A8 is the aluminium spaceframe. But the Jag XJ is also made of aluminium, so bye bye Audi.

I had forgotten the aluminum space frame (do not use an extra i, aluminium sound silly) in the A8. The XJ I like but maybe am not too keen on the interior - I have to see more of it. It's also a car for me that has the Ferrer X-factor, and I really want to see an XJ with the new 5L engine in it.

[Ferrer]

I had forgotten the aluminum space frame (do not use an extra i, aluminium sound silly) in the A8. The XJ I like but maybe am not too keen on the interior - I have to see more of it. It's also a car for me that has the Ferrer X-factor, and I really want to see an XJ with the new 5L engine in it.
I've been driven in an XJ8 4.2, pre-facelift model.

Excellent car. There's an absolute sense of luxury inside, yet it didn't feel heavy or cumbersome at all.

[Kitdy]

Proof that light flagship luxury cars can be possible. How was the ride?

[Ferrer]

Proof that light flagship luxury cars can be possible. How was the ride?
Excellent. And hardly any noise at all. And the seats were very comortable indeed. I liked it very much.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Yeah Leon, for that matter, what's the problem with the R8? I had somehow forgotten it.

Ferrer isn't it the other way around though and the R8 is a "bargain" Gallardo?

I thought that there actually was a lot different - is it the same chassis?

Consider this, the Gallardo is only assembled in Lamborghini's factory, and everything come from Audi's headquarter. I'm wondering why, apart from hooliganism from us enthusiasts, they don't build the Gallardo directly there?
I don't like the look of the Gallardo, never really been a fan of it, I never felt the Lamborghini factor in it, as if it was a 360/430 in Murcielago's style.
still it's an excellent car, and the same is for the R8, which I don't like either, I found it really underwhelming considering my expectations (and consider I don't like Audis usually).
So, what's wrong with them? They should have done just one of them, because we don't need both. Apart from the common belief there are never enough sportscars, they only have an aesthetic difference in the end, regardless of a different setup, or road behavior.
The Alfa Romeo 8C and Maserati GranTurismo are another similar example, with the only difference the 8C is carrying over a much bigger emotional part to the subject, which the two germans lack of.
Also, consider I'm one of those thinking the Murcielago isn't enough peculiar as a Lamborghini, I found myself thinking of it as a restyled Diablo, which I could think of as a restyled Countach, being in a hugely critical mood.


It's also a car for me that has the Ferrer X-factor, and I really want to see an XJ with the new 5L engine in it.

Forget about it, probably this year the new model will be unveiled in a concept form if not in a production-ready version, and by the look of the mules, it could be probably awesome looking.

[Kitdy]

I fear that the new XJ will be the new futuristic look of Jaguar which I don't care for at all.

[Ferrer]

The Alfa Romeo 8C and Maserati GranTurismo are another similar example, with the only difference the 8C is carrying over a much bigger emotional part to the subject, which the two germans lack of.
Well yes, but the GranTurismo is more of a gran turismo and the 8C is harder edged 2 seater sportscar.

I fear that the new XJ will be the new futuristic look of Jaguar which I don't care for at all.
I'm a bit worried by that too. I think they do have to modernise it, but at least retain a degree of Jaguariness.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Well yes, but the GranTurismo is more of a gran turismo and the 8C is harder edged 2 seater sportscar.

they ended up being quite similar though on the behavior side, and strictly identical on the technical side (apart for the 270 mm shorter 8C's chassis and different position of the fuel tank)

[Kitdy]

The 8C is still pretty soft when it comes to cars in that segment no? I mean softer than say an R8, or uh... I dunno. I have heard it's handling/ride is not up to par with the rest of sportscars in that price range (well maybe it's harder than an SL).

EDIT: The thing with the XJ is it has always retained the same look - completely changing it I think would be sacrilege.

Ferrer, Jaguariness should be nominated for word of the year.

We are way way off topic yet still talking about cars which is good.

[Ferrer]

EDIT: The thing with the XJ is it has always retained the same look - completely changing it I think would be sacrilege.
Well then you can change then name and make it a whole new car. Probably it's time to move on.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The 8C is still pretty soft when it comes to cars in that segment no? I mean softer than say an R8, or uh... I dunno. I have heard it's handling/ride is not up to par with the rest of sportscars in that price range (well maybe it's harder than an SL).

EDIT: The thing with the XJ is it has always retained the same look - completely changing it I think would be sacrilege.

Ferrer, Jaguariness should be nominated for word of the year.

We are way way off topic yet still talking about cars which is good.

true, everyone found it quite imprecise especially at the rear, not very focused, and the weight was quite perceivable.
at the same time they forgave it, because of how it looks.

[Kitdy]

Well then you can change then name and make it a whole new car. Probably it's time to move on.

Kill the XJ?! But you love tradition and heritage and you'd have them kill the XJ?!

I think lower of you today Ferrer.

Much lower.

[Ferrer]

true, everyone found it quite imprecise especially at the rear, not very focused, and the weight was quite perceivable.
at the same time they forgave it, because of how it looks.
And becuase it's the first rear drive Alfa in about 320 years. And because the V8 sounds a bit like heaven. And because, who wants a flaccid Maserati or an obvious Ferrari when you can have a maginifnicent Alfa Romeo. And because without Alfa Romeo you wouldn't have Ferrari. And because Alfa Romeo's CEO sacrifised part of Alfa's marketing budget to build it. And because if anything the Spider looks even more epic than the berlinetta.

And on top of all that it's an Alfa Romeo.

[Ferrer]

Kill the XJ?! But you love tradition and heritage and you'd have them kill the XJ?!

I think lower of you today Ferrer.

Much lower.
Tradition is good.

Keep on making the same car for 40 years until it becomes a caricature of its former self is bad.

Changing everything to stay the same, isn't breaking with tradition it's just moving on and keeping in touch with the times.

[LeonOfTheDead]

And becuase it's the first rear drive Alfa in about 320 years. And because the V8 sounds a bit like heaven. And because, who wants a flaccid Maserati or an obvious Ferrari when you can have a maginifnicent Alfa Romeo. And because without Alfa Romeo you wouldn't have Ferrari. And because Alfa Romeo's CEO sacrifised part of Alfa's marketing budget to build it. And because if anything the Spider looks even more epic than the berlinetta.

And on top of all that it's an Alfa Romeo.

me and you, yes, we like it also for those reasons. otherwise it's just the exotic/italian version of a "zOmg LOL GT-R!!!"
everyone's claiming it's wonderful, beautiful, technically advanced, based on a Ferrari, based on a Maserati, a true Alfa, the fastest front engine rwd car on the market, etc etc etc without even knowing how it looks for real.
they almost succeeded making me dislike this car:(

[Ferrer]

me and you, yes, we like it also for those reasons. otherwise it's just the exotic/italian version of a "zOmg LOL GT-R!!!"
everyone's claiming it's wonderful, beautiful, technically advanced, based on a Ferrari, based on a Maserati, a true Alfa, the fastest front engine rwd car on the market, etc etc etc without even knowing how it looks for real.
they almost succeeded making me dislike this car:(
Don't worry, none of this matters.

The definitive test is this, in Montecarlo's Casino Square arriving in a Ferrari will make the valet parking think you are another asshole who's been doing well at work. In an 8C he's going to know you're the bussiness.

[Zytek_Fan]

Not bad, but too bad it's fitted with a Haldex diff :mad:

[NicFromLA]

I have driven only one VW car so your view is more illuminating, but no less, I think that pretty much all the German Big Luxury 3 have are "beautifully built and have excellent paint work." Ferrer has taught me of the dead steering feel of udis- maybe indicative of luxury cars but I'd wager Bimmers are better to drive (it seems you agree) and if you want mad luxury you go to Benz - Audi I see as somewhat in the middle and not really as good as either of the other two.

As for the A8 leading the class in your view, I think that's surprising to hear as the engine seems maybe a bit small/lacking in torque in comparison to the fire breathers AMG and BMW have to offer but I could be wrong I also just think of the other two offerings as better for some reason. I'd have pegged the S-Class 1, 7 Series 2, and the A8 bringing up the rear, although this is speculation.

What was it about the A8/S8 that you valued so highly and why would you put it as class leader?

I am not sure you have to drive SEATs or Skodas as they are just badge engineered VWs with different interiors and potentially other things (I am not too knowledgeable on these two).

I think the interior quality on MB has been terrible lately, on the other end I have not been impressed with BMW's paint work, I think Audi does both of them brilliantly. The A3 and A8 are fun to drive, the A4 (I haven't driven the current one, just the previous) and the A6 are a little boring to drive, but are very pleasant and luxurious. Keep in mind: NOTHNG beats a 3 Series.

The advantage the A8 has is that it's lighter than the S or 7 which negates the need for the massive torque and makes the car a better handler. And if you really need that torque the A8 W12 is priced much less than the S600 or 760iL for what I consider to be a better car. I also think the Audi is the best looking.

[092326001]

i like it

[Rockefella]

As for the A8 leading the class in your view, I think that's surprising to hear as the engine seems maybe a bit small/lacking in torque in comparison to the fire breathers AMG and BMW have to offer but I could be wrong I also just think of the other two offerings as better for some reason. I'd have pegged the S-Class 1, 7 Series 2, and the A8 bringing up the rear, although this is speculation.


The S8 has a Gallardo-derived engine, if you want to bring AMG into the picture. Audi's getting too much hate here.. they're not building sports cars. They make luxury cars with a good bit of power for when you want to put your foot down. The average businessman doesn't care about weight or g's in cornering. If the companies catered to that nonsense then they'd be bankrupt.

[NicFromLA]

The average businessman doesn't care about weight or g's in cornering. If the companies catered to that nonsense then they'd be bankrupt.

On the contrary, they like a little bit in their sport sedans and a lot in their Porsches/Ferraris/Lambos/Morgans. Who do you think buys sports cars?

[LeonOfTheDead]

tbh, I read terrible articles about the S8 handling and how the V10 swap worked out.

[Rockefella]

On the contrary, they like a little bit in their sport sedans and a lot in their Porsches/Ferraris/Lambos/Morgans. Who do you think buys sports cars?

Because they're the only ones with enough money. Your average middle-aged man with money in the bank will drive a 5-series or A8 to work, rarely something like a Lotus or Corvette. Weekend car is another story.

[LeonOfTheDead]

On the contrary, they like a little bit in their sport sedans and a lot in their Porsches/Ferraris/Lambos/Morgans. Who do you think buys sports cars?

the fact they buy them doesn't mean they know what they are or care about.
personally speaking about a Continental GT, DB9 Volante, A8 (twice) and Boxter S 50th anniversary edition owner.

[Ferrer]

Because they're the only ones with enough money. Your average middle-aged man with money in the bank will drive a 5-series or A8 to work, rarely something like a Lotus or Corvette. Weekend car is another story.
And yet the 5er is about a million miles ahead of the A6 as far as the driving is concerned.

Making good drivers cars doesn't necessarily make a company go bankrupt.

[Kitdy]

And yet the 5er is about a million miles ahead of the A6 as far as the driving is concerned.

Come now, a million kilometres ahead or even 1.61 million kilometres ahead but never a million miles ahead.

For shame.

[Pando]

And yet the 5er is about a million miles ahead of the A6 as far as the driving is concerned.

Making good drivers cars doesn't necessarily make a company go bankrupt....and yet I'd rather go for the A/S6 than a E60 to drive to and from work every day. Why? Looks, no negative stigma, neutrality - and of course, not making the obvious choice.

If you see a bangled-up 5-series, admit it, you're not thinking - oh, that driver must be a really nice, interesting, car loving person.

The neutrality that a Audi 6-series offer you can't get in a Jag or a Lexus and definitely not in a Mercedes.

[Ferrer]

...and yet I'd rather go for the A/S6 than a E60 to drive to and from work every day. Why? Looks, no negative stigma, neutrality - and of course, not making the obvious choice.

If you see a bangled-up 5-series, admit it, you're not thinking - oh, that driver must be a really nice, interesting, car loving person.

The neutrality that a Audi 6-series offer you can't get in a Jag or a Lexus and definitely not in a Mercedes.
Want to go left field? Buy a C6.

Want to go left field and still drive like a hooligan in the corners? Buy an XF.

I doubt an Audi has any sort of neutrality these days...

[Kitdy]

Pando, why would you not buy a car becasue of the image associated with it? You should buy what's best for you regardless of the image it portrays becasue you'll be happy.

What do you care that other people think?

[Rockefella]

Pando, why would you not buy a car becasue of the image associated with it? You should buy what's best for you regardless of the image it portrays becasue you'll be happy.

What do you care that other people think?

You don't consider cars based on looks?

[Pando]

Want to go left field? Buy a C6.

Want to go left field and still drive like a hooligan in the corners? Buy an XF.

I doubt an Audi has any sort of neutrality these days...
This: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=298777&stc=1&d=1235418078
isn't neutral? Can you think of a bad thing to say about the owner? Can you say he/she made a wrong choice?

But I admit the current ones are slightly worse in that aspect.

Although I like the car, buying a C6 will make you stand out as eccentric. An XF has too much going on designwise and I can't really say I like the look, especially seen through businessman-goggles. Buying a Mercedes you always seem to pay for a lot more than you receive - and will project that image driving it.

But perhaps some sedans from Saab and Volvo might fall into the same category, other than that I find it hard to think of a businessman's car that doesn't have a stigma / a feeling that the driver made the wrong choice. I'm speaking of a car that projects the message - I'm doing alright, but I'm still humble... I'm quite neutral - but not boring

[Kitdy]

You don't consider cars based on looks?

I do, but I do not consider cars based on what others think of their looks which is part of the critical distinction.

[Pando]

Pando, why would you not buy a car becasue of the image associated with it? You should buy what's best for you regardless of the image it portrays becasue you'll be happy.

What do you care that other people think?Because to many businessmen what other people (especially clients and business partners) think can be quite important. In a way you "are" what you drive and it can be essential not to give out the wrong image.

What we are discussing here is not a weekends car which is a completely different matter.

[Kitdy]

Not bad, but too bad it's fitted with a Haldex diff :mad:

What is this?

[Ferrer]

This: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=298777&stc=1&d=1235418078
isn't neutral? Can you think of a bad thing to say about the owner? Can you say he/she made a wrong choice?

But I admit the current ones are slightly worse in that aspect.

Although I like the car, buying a C6 will make you stand out as eccentric. An XF has too much going on designwise and I can't really say I like the look, especially seen through businessman-goggles. Buying a Mercedes you always seem to pay for a lot more than you receive - and will project that image driving it.

But perhaps some sedans from Saab and Volvo might fall into the same category, other than that I find it hard to think of a businessman's car that doesn't have a stigma / a feeling that the driver made the wrong choice. I'm speaking of a car that projects the message - I'm doing alright, but I'm still humble... I'm quite neutral - but not boring
Of course old Audis are innofensive. But why would you want that?

Why would you want to be like everyone else? So what if a C6 labels you as eccentric, I probably am eccentric. Which why non-german executive saloons are usually great. You can deviate from the norm and not feel like you're a sheep running with the pack.

And if you absolutely must have a german car, then there's always the CLS.

[Pando]

Of course old Audis are innofensive. But why would you want that?

Why would you want to be like everyone else?

So what if a C6 labels you as eccentric, I probably am eccentric. Which why non-german executive saloons are usually great. You can deviate from the norm and not feel like you're a sheep running with the pack.

And if you absolutely must have a german car, then there's always the CLS.As I stated before, perhaps going german is the "obvious" choice but an A6 isn't - that's why I'd take it over a E60 for a means of transport to and from work.

[Ferrer]

As I stated before, perhaps going german is the "obvious" choice but an A6 isn't - that's why I'd take it over a E60 for a means of transport to and from work.
But isn't the new one? I think it may not be as obvious as a 5er, but it's pretty close and in anycase people still hate you (almost) as much as if you drive a bimmer.

And on top of all that it drives horriby.

[NicFromLA]

And on top of all that it drives horriby.

Boring and horrible are not the same thing.

[Waugh-terfall]

Audi have officially released details. the 2.5 5-pot produces well in excess of 300bhp and is a chopped down version of the RS6s 5.0Bi-Turbo V10, and to back that up, they've fitted, and I quote them "Stupendous brakes". The TT-RS will be released for sale in the UK next week after the official unveiling at the Geneva Motorshow.

[Ferrer]

Boring and horrible are not the same thing.
It may be perfect, but it still feels horrible to me.

[Waugh-terfall]

Although I like the car, buying a C6 will make you stand out as eccentric.

No no, buying a C6 will make you look like a mug, because in 3 years when you try and sell it, any dealer is going to look at you and laugh.

[Ferrer]

No no, buying a C6 will make you look like a mug, because in 3 years when you try and sell it, any dealer is going to look at you and laugh.
If you buy a C6 to sell it after three years you deserve being laughed at.

And if you buy a car for strong residuals then you don't understand cars.

[cmcpokey]

If you buy a C6 to sell it after three years you deserve being laughed at.

And if you buy a car for strong residuals then you don't understand cars.

if you dont factor in strong residuals to a car purchase, you dont understand economics.

[Ferrer]

if you dont factor in strong residuals to a car purchase, you dont understand economics.
It's not like we buy cars as an investment or for economic reasons, do we?

[cmcpokey]

It's not like we buy cars as an investment or for economic reasons, do we?

no, but if you intend on buying a car and then selling it a few years down the line, it is a much smarter proposition to buy a car that will maintain a mojority of its value. when i bought the mini, i knew it would last me until i could afford a bigger, ballsier car. the fact that at the time it had the 2nd highest re-sale value was very present in my mind. (the highest was the BMW 3 series, and I didnt want one of those.) when i traded it in for the G, it was 3 1/2 years old with 55k miles and frankly needed some TLC, and i still got well over 60% of original value. as a trade in. i could have gotten more if i had sold it privately, but i couldn't be bothered.

[Waugh-terfall]

If you buy a C6 to sell it after three years you deserve being laughed at.

And if you buy a car for strong residuals then you don't understand cars.

Would that not explain the lack of them on the roads?

Most people tend to buy a car and sell it after the warranty expires. My Dad does, Pokey did, your uncle appears to have done, you did, I could go on...

[Ferrer]

no, but if you intend on buying a car and then selling it a few years down the line, it is a much smarter proposition to buy a car that will maintain a mojority of its value. when i bought the mini, i knew it would last me until i could afford a bigger, ballsier car. the fact that at the time it had the 2nd highest re-sale value was very present in my mind. (the highest was the BMW 3 series, and I didnt want one of those.) when i traded it in for the G, it was 3 1/2 years old with 55k miles and frankly needed some TLC, and i still got well over 60% of original value. as a trade in. i could have gotten more if i had sold it privately, but i couldn't be bothered.


Would that not explain the lack of them on the roads?

Most people tend to buy a car and sell it after the warranty expires. My Dad does, Pokey did, your uncle appears to have done, you did, I could go on...
It is not a reason in my mind though.

What I mean is that I wouldn't stop buying a car that I liked because it had bad residuals. I just can't consider cars as investments. I just buy whatever I fancy the most given my budget constraints (and other practicality requirements) regardless of everything else. Includng residuals.

[Kitdy]

My parents have taught me to drive a car into the ground, which I think is a sound philosophy.

[LeonOfTheDead]

It is not a reason in my mind though.

What I mean is that I wouldn't stop buying a car that I liked because it had bad residuals. I just can't consider cars as investments. I just buy whatever I fancy the most given my budget constraints (and other practicality requirements) regardless of everything else. Includng residuals.

I would go for the same way of thinking, but, since I not swimming in golden water or coins, I ould have to consider residual value.
My father did when it was time to change the car, the Thesis was the top of the list, but has a residual value as high as that of the Croma, which cost about 20.000 € less. So, the Thesis (100th Edition) stayed where it was.
It's a shame, but if something you have to face if you intend to save some money, or aren't rich enough to don't bother.

[Ferrer]

I would go for the same way of thinking, but, since I not swimming in golden water or coins, I ould have to consider residual value.
My father did when it was time to change the car, the Thesis was the top of the list, but has a residual value as high as that of the Croma, which cost about 20.000 € less. So, the Thesis (100th Edition) stayed where it was.
It's a shame, but if something you have to face if you intend to save some money, or aren't rich enough to don't bother.
Your dad did it, but would you have done the same?

I personally would've gone for the Thesis, no doubt.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Your dad did it, but would you have done the same?

I personally would've gone for the Thesis, no doubt.

he changes the car every two years due to how many miles he run in it, so a good residual is still a good point.
in the same condition, I would have done the same.
give me the possibility and the money, Thesis in a snap, especially this:

http://www.viva-lancia.com/lanciaclassicteam/forumpics/radunithesis/2_file/image005.jpg

[Ferrer]

Even if I had to high mileage I'd still couldn't consider a car as an investment.

Either that or I'd have two cars.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Even if I had to high mileage I'd still couldn't consider a car as an investment.

Either that or I'd have two cars.

it's not an investment, but a mean for your work (actuall the only one recognized to my father by the government). so it's like a machine tool for a factory, or a server for an office and so on.
you need to cut costs to raise profits, in the end, or at least rationalize the costs.
to be brutally honest, yes, two cars are the best solution in this particular situation, but it involves much more money than buying an expensive one, not only for the purchase, but mostly due to maintenance. even insurance would cost much more for a second car, since you can't retain the same class you reached with the first car, and you are obliged to pay as much as a new customer, let alone the fact they would consider the second car as the one you use for your reckless weekend driving and charge you even more.
thanks.
we thought about that, but driving about 60.000 km per year requires a decently comfortable car, especially because my father is 59 and has already had some hernia related problems years ago. that means even a decently equipped Bravo (just to stay in the family...) could be a bad choice (as 18" rims for the Croma, but they were standard and actually played were well).
if you ask a dealer what's the right car for so many miles, he would answer something like an S-Klasse, but he isn't going to pay the difference, so, again, thanks.
even after that, at a certain point in our life if we are not economically lucky enough, even being car enthusiasts, we are going to face a similar choice, and it should be that of buying the car with the best residual.
tbh, buying a car, knowing you are loosing some money on it and that you don't have that much money to waste, it's just stupid, even being an enthusiast. I must admit cars are not the first thing in life, still they are the second most expensive stuff you are going to buy in your whole life, after a house. So I would find it selfish and even egoist, considering it would affect the economical situation of my family too.
then, if you live alone, you are in charge of your decisions and of their consequences, so it's just up to you.
while, if you are in the condition of going for your interests and even spending some heavy cash for them, well, why not?!

[Ferrer]

I'm sorry but I just can't consider a car a tool. I may use it for work, but I have to like it. If there was a car that I didn't like but had great residual values, I still wouldn't buy it.

As for being a bit tight, no problem either go second hand or there are plenty of cheap and cheerful cars out there in the market.

Of course I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view, but that's what we are, aren't we?

[cmcpokey]

do you have classic car rates for insurance? that woudl be a good compromise, get an older cheap sports car, and have a boring car for commuting. my RX doesn't cost me very much to insure, and maintenance on it is next to nothing (but then again i dont drive it very much).

[LeonOfTheDead]

I'm sorry but I just can't consider a car a tool. I may use it for work, but I have to like it. If there was a car that I didn't like but had great residual values, I still wouldn't buy it.

As for being a bit tight, no problem either go second hand or there are plenty of cheap and cheerful cars out there in the market.

Of course I'm speaking from an enthusiasts point of view, but that's what we are, aren't we?

well, it's a trade-off. you buy the car you like with the best residual and cheaper running costs.
and you can't, as my father, buy a second hand one because it wouldn't be recognized as a mean for your work, so say goodbye to tax refunding, which can be a decent amount of money.
for instance, he considered a Brera too (upon my unbiased suggestion ;), besides his back's problems), but, for it's kind of work he has the right for an off from the price, and for the Brera it was about half that you get with a 166, for instance.
then, my father isn't into cars even nearly as much as I am, and he preferred to save money for restoring the house, for instance, and other stuff, so probably I would have gone for the Brera or the Thesis, obviously.

in a more realistic situation, if I was in the market for a car right now with a minor budget, probably I would go for a Panda 100HP, even second handed, or an Integra Type R. So, a sporty car, cheap to buy and relatively to run, instead of the usual Golf/Punto and so on, maybe better refined, with more options, and maybe even a better mileage, but definitely not my first choice, given the possibility.
from this point of view, yeah, I would look for the best I could get, but still with an eye to the budget I have.

[bizkid21]

this is my dream car man... wish i can afford one... even a 2.0TFSI also will do... hehee...

[geordiejoker]

nice car