RIP Pontiac

[Dino Scuderia]

Soon if not Monday I'd bet.


REPORT: General Motors to kill Pontiac on Monday (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/23/report-general-motors-to-kill-pontiac-monday/)

According to a report from InsideLine, General Motors could axe Pontiac as early as this Monday. Although IL isn't citing its source within GM, it did contact the General's PR man, Tom Wilkinson, who said, "There's nothing I can share with you at this time... Officially, nothing has changed with Pontiac's niche-brand status, until you hear differently." Not very clear, but not particularly positive either.

[Ferrer]

Could be worse. It could've been Saab.

[Rockefella]

I thought Pontiac would've stayed around. I see GMC and Saturn joining Pontiac in the grave sooner or later, with Saab probably being sold.

[Ferrer]

I thought Pontiac would've stayed around. I see GMC and Saturn joining Pontiac in the grave sooner or later, with Saab probably being sold.
Add Hummer in the list "to go in way or another" too.

Next candidate after all those? Opel/Vauxhall.

[Dino Scuderia]

GM is 'temporarely' closing several plants this summer for nine weeks....I wonder how many will be permanently mothballed.

[clutch-monkey]

good...very confused brand. need to streamline

[LTSmash]

The Indian's will be happy about this news.

[silverhawk]

What kind of a niche did Pontiac belong to?? its cars are almost the same as chevrolet's.

[fisetdavid26]

What kind of a niche did Pontiac belong to?? its cars are almost the same as chevrolet's.
Same damn thing if you ask me, except some minor cosmetic changes, such as... different hubcaps, speedometers, grill and badges. That's pretty much it.

FAREWELL

[Kitdy]

I never ever liked Pontiac. In fact, I dislike ever Pontiac I can think of ever except for the G8 which is a Holden.

Bye Pontiac, you won't be missed.

[cmcpokey]

its played to a very specific market segment for a long time, and its a shame to see them go down. but thats what these types of situations do, thin the herd. a little bit of economic darwinism to make things better in the long run.

[f6fhellcat13]

I beg to differ.
Though most of Pontiac's cars were rebadged trash, I liked them in their role of American importer of Holdens and I like the Solstice, a lot.
Better than the ugly-assed Sky, and the good-old Uncle Sam in me would definitely get one over a Miata. If I wanted a Miata, I'd get an Elan...
But I digress. I would rather see a consolidation of Saturn, Pontiac, and any other flailing appendages rather than see Pontiac sunk.
EDIT: Fiset changed my avy.

[ScionDriver]

This is all GM's fault, they couldn't give Pontiac an identity over the last ten years: Was it a slightly more upscale Chevy or was it a hip, young, performance brand?

Frankly I liked it as the latter: The G8 GT looks cool and was a decent performance sedan and the G8 Sport Truck was ridiculously stupid but was gonna be awesome!!!

[Spastik_Roach]

a collective meh is chorused from petrolheads the world over...

[F1_Master]

What the hell are they doing at GM? Pontiac is finally producing some great cars, and now they want to kill it off while keeping GMC, the brand that does nothing but sell you a Chevrolet Pickup for $20,000 more?

Jesus, I smell stupidity in Detroit.

[Roentgen]

Brand like that can go, as they're pretty much the same as some others. But I'm still sour about Saab... but then I'm a Saab owner so.... yea. Seriously, GM is runned by a bunch of idiots.

[NSXType-R]

Yeah, just when I got interested in GM for a little while, it's gone. I guess they could bring Australian products through Chevy and call it the real Malibu as a replacement for the G8. Plus, the El Camino could be a Chevy. They could do a lot with this now.

[SlickHolden]

I thought there were 2-3 with their heads on the chopping block - Well before Pontiac ?.

I thought Hummer was done, along with Saturn. So now to confuse more holdens imports will be badged as another brand ?.
Why doesn't GM just loose the names and call them all GM cars.

[LTSmash]

Why doesn't GM just loose the names and call them all GM cars.

Good idea, because it's not like any of GM's subsidiaries were for a different market from GM as it is.

[digitalcraft]

The only car they really had was the solstice, every other car was competition against their own brands. Tell ford they need to do this with Mercury or completely retool it.

[SlickHolden]

Good idea, because it's not like any of GM's subsidiaries were for a different market from GM as it is.
Only in NA. You guys call most of your cars GM anyway.

[Ferrer]

I don't think many people is aware here of Opel being part of GM, much less Saab.

And we don't basically buy the others they are trying to sell us.

Just one thought that crossed my mind. Eventually BL was trimmed down to two brands, but in the end it still died.

[clutch-monkey]

I thought there were 2-3 with their heads on the chopping block - Well before Pontiac ?.

yeah, i thought buick or whatever gets half the sales pontiac did..?
but still, pontiac had no direction, the sort of products they had..

on the bright side; no more slapping horrific front grilles on holdens.


Just one thought that crossed my mind. Eventually BL was trimmed down to two brands, but in the end it still died.

deservedly so...not sure GM deserves it though :D

[Canam fan]

I thought the G6 was GM's best selling model. I think that some of the moves are to appease the government more than to make a successful business. By the way if GMC can sell you a pickup for $20,000 more than Chevy then you would want to keep them around. That is great profit margin. It's the reason Porsche is so profitable. Their name alone adds $10,000 - $20,000 over what their cars should sell for.

[Canam fan]

What do people think of the US treasury backing the retirement and pension plans of Chrysler if it gets sold or goes under? I think this STINKS!!!!! I worked for a company that went Chapter 11 and there was no bailout of my lost 401K money. Why should Chrysler be different? This is a horrible and extremely dangerous precedent which will cost US taxpayers billions.

[NSXType-R]

I don't think many people is aware here of Opel being part of GM, much less Saab.

And we don't basically buy the others they are trying to sell us.

Just one thought that crossed my mind. Eventually BL was trimmed down to two brands, but in the end it still died.

You know, I had predicted to my friend a couple years back now that GM might go bankrupt, and he hadn't believed me. But it seems to be getting closer and closer to a "controlled" bankruptcy may be the only way out.

The effect of GM going under would just be devastating.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The effect of GM going under would just be devastating.

Not so sure.
Surely in the short term, but in the long shot it could be "better" from certain points of view.
Sometimes I had the feeling they are just hyping the earthquake following the bankruptcy as a sort of advertising campaign, so that people could think it would be a bad decision to force them into bankruptcy, and therefore the government would have its hands tied.

just a speculation of my own.

[nota]

What do people think of the US treasury backing the retirement and pension plans of Chrysler if it gets sold or goes under? I think this STINKS!!!!! I worked for a company that went Chapter 11 and there was no bailout of my lost 401K money. Why should Chrysler be different?


This is a horrible and extremely dangerous precedent which will cost US taxpayers billions.
As if the current system hasn't / isn't / won't be costing US taxpayers .. trillions

[Ferrer]

You know, I had predicted to my friend a couple years back now that GM might go bankrupt, and he hadn't believed me. But it seems to be getting closer and closer to a "controlled" bankruptcy may be the only way out.

The effect of GM going under would just be devastating.
Possibly, but that's how capitalism works.

[NSXType-R]

Not so sure.
Surely in the short term, but in the long shot it could be "better" from certain points of view.
Sometimes I had the feeling they are just hyping the earthquake following the bankruptcy as a sort of advertising campaign, so that people could think it would be a bad decision to force them into bankruptcy, and therefore the government would have its hands tied.

just a speculation of my own.


Possibly, but that's how capitalism works.

Well the fact that so many people would lose their jobs would be just insane. What company could absorb so many people that quickly?

I had supported the federal bailout just on those terms- too many people would lose their jobs too quickly. GM does nothing for me and I couldn't care if GM disappeared off the face of this Earth.

[Ferrer]

Well the fact that so many people would lose their jobs would be just insane. What company could absorb so many people that quickly?

I had supported the federal bailout just on those terms- too many people would lose their jobs too quickly. GM does nothing for me and I couldn't care if GM disappeared off the face of this Earth.
No company could absorb this amount of workers quickly. But that doesn't mean that US's economy wouldn't recover.

[Lets Gekiga In]

Can't say I didn't see this coming, but still a little sad.

[bruxell]

Could be worse. It could've been Saab.
What exactly would be wrong with killing off Sabb at this point? It's a dead brand, and it should stay that way. If Pontiac had been able to get its hands on that new Opel Isgnia platform they'd have sold tons over here. As a three-time Pontiac owner, I'll be kind of upset if this turns out to be true.

[Ferrer]

What exactly would be wrong with killing off Sabb at this point? It's a dead brand, and it should stay that way. If Pontiac had been able to get its hands on that new Opel Isgnia platform they'd have sold tons over here. As a three-time Pontiac owner, I'll be kind of upset if this turns out to be true.
Because Saab deserves a future.

Only because GM didn't understand it doesn't mean it should be killed.

[digitalcraft]

Its frontline official news today.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

I've got to say I'm not entirely surprised by this information of Pontiac getting the ax - it's been unable to reflect any core value for a while - having both luxury sport and budget options in the same range.

[digitalcraft]

Yeah but you just described the *entire* American car industry.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

GM at least has some understanding of how it wants core brands to work:
Chevrolet for the Masses
Cadillac for Luxury
GMC for Commercial
etc etc.

Pontiac was having to try and straddle 2 categories, and is superfluous.

[F1_Master]

GM at least has some understanding of how it wants core brands to work:
Chevrolet for the Masses
Cadillac for Luxury
GMC for Marked Up Chevrolet Pickups
etc etc.

Pontiac was having to try and straddle 2 categories, and is superfluous.
Fixed that for you. GMC does nothing for the company since you can buy the exact samething from Chevrolet, commercial vehicles included.

[Kitdy]

Because Saab deserves a future.

Only because GM didn't understand it doesn't mean it should be killed.

Explain why Saab is good.

[f6fhellcat13]

Explain why Saab is good.
His point is is that GM neutered Saab, and Saab doesnt deserve to die for GM's sins.
There was a time when they made some interesting and quirky cars.

[Ferrer]

His point is is that GM neutered Saab, and Saab doesnt deserve to die for GM's sins.
There was a time when they made some interesting and quirky cars.
Exactly.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Lets Gekiga In]

Fixed that for you. GMC does nothing for the company since you can buy the exact samething from Chevrolet, commercial vehicles included.

GMC really does need to die.

[Kitdy]

Exactly.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

What are some of the Saabs you like?

EDIT: And why do you like them?

[Ferrer]

What are some of the Saabs you like?

EDIT: And why do you like them?
All pre-GM Saabs are interesting. And of the GM era I like the mad torque steery Viggen and the current 9-5 Aero as a sort of last hurrah for proper Saabs.

They are interesting because of their engineering solutions and their design. The 900 for instance had then gearbox in the sump (like the Mini, altough they didn't share the oil) and a double wishbone suspension. The Sonnet was front-mid engined and front wheel drive. And there's the hatchback, which is an integral part of Saab, and the airplane like curved windscreen. And so on...

[MRR]

Explain why Saab is good.

I second this

also I hope the G8 is still kept maybe as a Chevrolet this time. It is the only unique car they have that is not a rebadged Chevrolet.

[nota]

It is the only unique car they have that is not a rebadged Chevrolet.
You mean like this rebadged Chevrolet (http://cdn.24.com/files/Cms/General/d/72/aea41543230848aba68931fe99240ede.jpg) ?



;)

[Dino Scuderia]

GM will announce this morning the closure of 6 more plants in the USA bringing the total of plants operating in 2008 of 47 to 34 in 2009.

[P4g4nite]

Explain why Saab is good.
Because Saabs go first and sweep up the mooses.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightline/saab%20moose%20555.jpg

[LeonOfTheDead]

oh my sweet baby jesus:


GM Accelerates its Reinvention as a Leaner, More Viable Company

Updated Viability Plan Speeds, Deepens Restructuring of U.S. Operations

DETROIT -- General Motors (NYSE: GM) today presented an updated Viability Plan that will speed the reinvention of GM’s U.S. operations into a leaner, more customer-focused, and more cost-competitive automaker.



The Viability Plan is included in an exchange offer whereby GM is offering certain bondholders shares of GM common stock and accrued interest in exchange for certain outstanding notes.



Revised Viability Plan goes further and faster



The Viability Plan announced today builds on the February 17 Viability Plan submitted to the U.S. Treasury. GM Media Online (http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=52168). The revised Plan accelerates the timeline for a number of important actions and makes deeper cuts in several key areas of GM’s operations, with the objective to make us a leaner, faster, and more customer-focused organization going forward.



Significant changes include:

§ A focus on four core brands in the U.S. – Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC – with fewer nameplates and a more competitive level of marketing support per brand.

§ A more aggressive restructuring of GM’s U.S. dealer organization to better focus dealer resources for improved sales and customer service.

§ Improved U.S. capacity utilization through accelerated idling and closures of powertrain, stamping, and assembly plants.

§ Lower structural costs, which GM North America (GMNA) projects will enable it to breakeven (on an adjusted EBIT basis) at a U.S. total industry volume of approximately 10 million vehicles, based on the pricing and share assumptions in the plan. This rate is substantially below the 15 to 17 million annual vehicle sales rates recorded from 1995 through 2007.



“We are taking tough but necessary actions that are critical to GM’s long-term viability,” said Fritz Henderson, GM president and CEO. “Our responsibility is clear – to secure GM’s future – and we intend to succeed. At the same time, we also understand the impact these actions will have on our employees, dealers, unions, suppliers, shareholders, bondholders, and communities, and we will do whatever we can to mitigate the effects on the extended GM team.”



Fewer U.S. brands, nameplates, and dealers



As part of the revised Viability Plan and the need to move faster and further, GM in the U.S. will focus its resources on four core brands, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Buick and GMC. The Pontiac brand will be phased out by the end of 2010. GM will offer a total of 34 nameplates in 2010, a reduction of 29 percent from 48 nameplates in 2008, reflecting both the reduction in brands and continued emphasis on fewer and stronger entries. This four-brand strategy will enable GM to better focus its new product development programs and provide more competitive levels of market support.



The revised plan moves up the resolution of Saab, Saturn, and Hummer to the end of 2009, at the latest. Updates on these brands will be provided as these initiatives progress.



Working with its dealers, GM anticipates reducing its U.S. dealer count from 6,246 in 2008 to 3,605 by the end of 2010, a reduction of 42 percent. This is a further reduction of 500 dealers, and four years sooner, than in the February 17 Plan. The goal is to accomplish this reduction in an orderly, cost-effective, and customer-focused way. This reduction in U.S. dealers will allow for a more competitive dealer network and higher sales effectiveness in all markets. More details on these initiatives will be provided in May.



Sales volume and market share projections



The Viability Plan anticipates improved financial results despite more conservative U.S. sales volume expectations going forward. The lower volume expectations are the result of managing the business with fewer nameplates and dealers, leaner inventories, and reduced market share. To address the inventory issue, GM on April 23 announced U.S. production schedule reductions of approximately 190,000 vehicles during the second and early third quarters of 2009.



The Viability Plan also reduces GM’s market share projections to adjust for the impact of the brand and dealer consolidation, as well as for the short-term impact of speculation regarding a GM bankruptcy. The plan assumes a 19.5 percent share in 2009, with share stabilizing in the 18.4 to 18.9 percent range in subsequent years.



“We have strong new product coming for our four core brands: the Chevrolet Camaro, Equinox, Cruze and Volt; Buick LaCrosse; GMC Terrain; and Cadillac SRX and CTS Sport Wagon and Coupe,” said Henderson. “A tighter focus by GM and its dealers will help give these products the capital investment, marketing and advertising support they need to be truly successful.”



Lower structural costs, lower breakeven point



The Viability Plan also lowers GMNA’s breakeven volume to a U.S. annual industry volume of 10 million total vehicles, based on the pricing and share assumptions in the plan. This lower breakeven point (at an adjusted EBIT level) better positions GM to generate positive cash flow and earn an adequate return on capital over the course of a normal business cycle, a requirement set forth by the U.S. Treasury in its March 30 viability plan assessment.



GM will lower its breakeven point by cutting its structural costs faster and deeper than had previously been planned:



§ Manufacturing: Consistent with the mandate to accelerate restructuring, we plan to reduce the total number of assembly, powertrain, and stamping plants in the U.S. from 47 in 2008 to 34 by the end of 2010, a reduction of 28 percent, and to 31 by 2012. This would reflect the acceleration of six plant idling/closures from the February 17 plan, and one additional plant idling. Throughout this transition, GM will continue to implement its flexible global manufacturing strategy (GMS), which allows multiple body styles and architectures to be built in one plant. This enables GM to use its capital more efficiently, increase capacity utilization, and respond more quickly to market shifts.

§ Employment: U.S. hourly employment levels are projected to be reduced from about 61,000 in 2008 to 40,000 in 2010, a 34 percent reduction, and level off at about 38,000 starting in 2011. This further planned reduction of an additional 7,000 to 8,000 employees from the February 17 Plan is primarily the result of the previously discussed operational efficiencies, nameplate reductions, and plant closings. GM also anticipates a further decline in salaried and executive employment as it continues to assess its structure and execute the Viability Plan. More details will be announced as soon as they are finalized with the various stakeholders.

§ Labor costs: The Viability Plan assumes a reduction of U.S. hourly labor costs from $7.6 billion in 2008 to $5 billion in 2010, a 34 percent reduction. GM will continue to work with its UAW partners to accomplish this through a reduction in total U.S. hourly employment as well as through modifications in the collective bargaining agreement.



As a result of these and other actions, GMNA’s structural costs are projected to decline 25 percent, from $30.8 billion in 2008 to $23.2 billion in 2010, a further decline of $1.8 billion by 2010 versus the February 17 Plan.



Strengthening GM’s balance sheet



Another key element of GM’s restructuring will be taking the necessary actions to strengthen its balance sheet. GM today took an important step in improving its balance sheet by launching a bond exchange offer for approximately $27 billion of its unsecured public debt. If successful, the bond exchange would result in the conversion of a large majority of this debt to equity.



“A stronger balance sheet would free the company to invest in the products and technologies of the future,” Henderson said. “It will also help provide stability and security to our customers, our dealers, our employees, and our suppliers.”



Another important part of improving the balance sheet will be the ongoing discussions with the UAW to modify the terms of the Voluntary Employee Benefit Association (VEBA), and with the U.S. Treasury regarding possible conversion of its debt to equity. The current bond exchange offer is conditioned on the converting to equity of at least 50 percent of GM’s outstanding U.S. Treasury debt at June 1, 2009, and at least 50 percent of GM’s future financial obligations to the new VEBA. GM expects a debt reduction of at least $20 billion between the two actions.



In total, the U.S. Treasury debt conversion, VEBA modification and bond exchange could result in at least $44 billion in debt reduction.



Throughout the Plan, GM will continue to make significant investment in future products and new technologies, with an investment of $5.4 billion in 2009, and investments ranging from $5.3 to $6.7 billion from 2010 to 2014. Very importantly, development and testing of the Chevy Volt extended-range electric car remains on track for start of production by the end of 2010 and arrival in Chevrolet dealer showrooms soon thereafter.



“The Viability Plan reflects the direction of President Obama and the U.S. Treasury that GM should go further and faster on our restructuring,” Henderson said. “We appreciate their support and direction. This stronger, leaner business model will enable GM to keep doing what it does best – provide great new cars, trucks and crossovers to our customers, and continue to develop new advanced propulsion technologies that are vital for our country’s economy and environment.”

[switters78]

Isn't anyone going to miss the Aztek? :D

[Rockefella]

Isn't anyone going to miss the Aztek? :D

The Aztek? WHAT ABOUT THE BONNEVILLE?!?!?

[glasstop]

Well F1 Master, that stupidity is how Motown got in this mess in the first place, and over and over again!

[Lets Gekiga In]

The Aztek? WHAT ABOUT THE BONNEVILLE?!?!?

Both have been dead for quite some time, but I'll take your post as a joke. :D

[Timothy (in VA)]

A sad day for the American auto industry. Pontiac has a great history, and it's really a shame that the brand has been so horribly bungled in the past couple decades. It'd never really hit me just how bad things are right now.

:(

[Kitdy]

Why is it a sad day to see such a useless automaker go under? Other than the G8 and the Solstice, what cars does Pontiac have that are worth anything? What cars have they made of interest in the last 20-30 years? If you wanted to mourn Pontaic, you shoulda done so long ago as they've been "dead" for much longer than since today.

[f6fhellcat13]

Why is it a sad day to see such a useless automaker go under? Other than the G8 and the Solstice, what cars does Pontiac have that are worth anything? What cars have they made of interest in the last 20-30 years? If you wanted to mourn Pontaic, you shoulda done so long ago as they've been "dead" for much longer than since today.

GTO >> your ****ing face.
Yay for Oztrayleeuh!

[clutch-monkey]

^well, at least there will be no more molested holdens with stupid front ends and bonnet scoops.
maybe they will be sold as chevy's, with a discreet bowtie badge, like how they're sold in the middle east.

[NSXType-R]

^well, at least there will be no more molested holdens with stupid front ends and bonnet scoops.
maybe they will be sold as chevy's, with a discreet bowtie badge, like how they're sold in the middle east.

That's what I said earlier. Kill the Saturn brand, make everything under Chevy.

Bring back the G8 sport truck, sell it as an El Camino. Bring back the G8, sell it as a Malibu. Done.

And sell the Solstice as a Chevy. Done. With new styling of course.

Geez, did no one realize badge engineering practically painted GM into a corner?

I hate to see brands go- especially when I see the really old Oldsmobiles- they really were exciting! But when you turn them into cars grandparents lust for, then it's really time to go.

[Timothy (in VA)]

Why is it a sad day to see such a useless automaker go under? Other than the G8 and the Solstice, what cars does Pontiac have that are worth anything? What cars have they made of interest in the last 20-30 years? If you wanted to mourn Pontaic, you shoulda done so long ago as they've been "dead" for much longer than since today.

What can I say? I'm a sentimentalist.

Maybe most Pontiacs today aren't particularly special, but back before I was born Pontiacs were awesome and certainly not useless. GTOs, Firebirds, Grand Prix...es(?), Bonnevilles, etc. Even if Pontiac has been dying a long, slow death, today will still be marked as the day it became official, and thus today is a sad day.

Highlights of the past 30 years: the Firebird (admittedly not very distinct from the Camaro), the Fiero (has any other GM brand had a mid-engined car in the given time span?), the GTO (something for the Aussies to lord over us), the G8 (ditto), the Solstice (child of affirmed car-guy Bob Lutz).

And a lowlight of the past month: Based on how many they have already built, and how many they've sold so far, General Motors has a 2-year supply of the Pontiac G3, which will likely serve as one final lesson on the perils of badge-engineering: REPORT: GM already has nearly two year supply of Pontiac G3 (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/14/report-gm-already-has-nearly-two-year-supply-of-pontiac-g3-at-c/)

[Kitdy]

GTO >> your ****ing face.
Yay for Oztrayleeuh!

Pontiac sucks - but yes they do have a few modernish cars that have been good, the recent GTO (I hate the old one) the G8... basically the ones that Timothy mentions below.


^well, at least there will be no more molested holdens with stupid front ends and bonnet scoops.
maybe they will be sold as chevy's, with a discreet bowtie badge, like how they're sold in the middle east.

They look sick sold as Chevys.


That's what I said earlier. Kill the Saturn brand, make everything under Chevy.

Bring back the G8 sport truck, sell it as an El Camino. Bring back the G8, sell it as a Malibu. Done.

And sell the Solstice as a Chevy. Done. With new styling of course.

The El Camino won't sell sadly even though it probably makes more practical sense than a truck; that that's probably why Pontiac didn't sell the Sport Truck. The G8 as a Malibu would be cool, but the Malibu itself is supposedly a good car and maybe they want to retain the G8 as a more sporty image rather than in Australia where it is both common trooper and extreme performer. I really really hope that the G8 survives as something under Chevy - Jalopnik mentioned it too but they said it is doomed to fail - they suggested a Camaro SS Sedan.


What can I say? I'm a sentimentalist.

Maybe most Pontiacs today aren't particularly special, but back before I was born Pontiacs were awesome and certainly not useless. GTOs, Firebirds, Grand Prix...es(?), Bonnevilles, etc. Even if Pontiac has been dying a long, slow death, today will still be marked as the day it became official, and thus today is a sad day.

Highlights of the past 30 years: the Firebird (admittedly not very distinct from the Camaro), the Fiero (has any other GM brand had a mid-engined car in the given time span?), the GTO (something for the Aussies to lord over us), the G8 (ditto), the Solstice (child of affirmed car-guy Bob Lutz)

I thought the Firebird was ugly - I'd take the Camaro any day over it but the rest are all cool and definitely good cars. Compare the amount of good cars with the amount of crap cars they made though and that's part of why they are gone. And badge engineering - that is a devil too.

[Dino Scuderia]

If the G8 were to be under the Chevy banner it should be the Impala, not Malibu....the current Malibu is doing great.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I don't understand why the G8 should be called the new "Malibu"...is it so difficult to create a new name, period?

This trend of reviving the past has lead Pontiac to digging its own grave giving fanmous name to pretty average cars.

Just call it "The Uber fast Chevy you didn't buy as a Pontiac"

it's the naming-day.

[digitalcraft]

Both Impala and Malibu are sort of a meaningless name nowadays. They just give it to whatever sedan they think might sell with it. The current Imapala might as well have a Honda badge its so bland. Same thing with the malibu. It made sense calling it a malibu back in the day because it was cool, but now it's just a random economy car. They should kill both and replace them with more conventional names that don't stain the lineage of Impala and Malibu. Call one or the other the Chevrolet Meh.

[Lets Gekiga In]

Both Impala and Malibu are sort of a meaningless name nowadays. They just give it to whatever sedan they think might sell with it. The current Imapala might as well have a Toyota badge its so bland. Same thing with the malibu. It made sense calling it a malibu back in the day because it was cool, but now it's just a random economy car. They should kill both and replace them with more conventional names that don't stain the lineage of Impala and Malibu. Call one or the other the Chevrolet Meh.

Fixed.

[clutch-monkey]

If the G8 were to be under the Chevy banner it should be the Impala
two edged sword... recognition for the name, but then criticsim for not fulfilling the name's expectations?

[Ferrer]

two edged sword... recognition for the name, but then criticsim for not fulfilling the name's expectations?
Fulfilling them less than what it is now?

[NSXType-R]

two edged sword... recognition for the name, but then criticsim for not fulfilling the name's expectations?

I'd rather them fulfill it properly than to fulfill it half-assed.

[Dino Scuderia]

two edged sword... recognition for the name, but then criticsim for not fulfilling the name's expectations?

No expectations attached to the name anymore....but the G8 would be a helluva improvement over the whole line of second generation of Impala's.

[clutch-monkey]

wait, is the current impala the FWD V8 one?
if yes, LOL and re-badge away

[The_Canuck]

wait, is the current impala the FWD V8 one?
if yes, LOL and re-badge away

Hahah well the SS anyways...the regular one has....a v6, ooooooooh.

Aussie that shit up.

[cargirl1990]

a sad day for the post gigilo. :(

[NSXType-R]

wait, is the current impala the FWD V8 one?
if yes, LOL and re-badge away

Yes. And the only reason why it's around is because rental car fleets and the police wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they were out of production.

[Ferrer]

Yes. And the only reason why it's around is because rental car fleets and the police wouldn't know what to do with themselves if they were out of production.
Doesn't the police use Crown Vics and Chargers?

[cmcpokey]

Doesn't the police use Crown Vics and Chargers?

yes and yes, but the Vic is out of production as of last year, and the charger is still only used in a few areas. there are many long standing contracts with either ford or chevy, and those are being filled by the leftover crown vics or the impala. neither of which are a good solution.

according to the jalopnik, LAPD has already put an order in for Commodores badged as chevys and set up for police work. i say badass, and bring the aussies on.

[Dino Scuderia]

A couple of G8 variants....the Lumina would make a great Impala.

GM updates 2009 Chevrolet Caprice for Middle Eastern Markets - World Auto News & Reviews (http://allworldcars.com/wordpress/?p=11581)

Chevy Lumina SS named Middle East's "Sports Saloon of the Year" (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/13/chevy-lumina-ss-named-middle-easts-sports-saloon-of-the-year/)

[NSXType-R]

The Lumina is a G8, right?

[Dino Scuderia]

The Lumina is a G8, right?

Pretty much, yeah.

[NSXType-R]

Pretty much, yeah.

So yeah, it was in my idea originally.

I just called it a Malibu. ;)

I love how Lumina here refers to an old piece of shit and in the Middle East it's a G8. How unfair. :D

[Dino Scuderia]

So yeah, it was in my idea originally.

I just called it a Malibu. ;)

I love how Lumina here refers to an old piece of shit and in the Middle East it's a G8. How unfair. :D

One of my company cars was a '95 Lumina...it was the Camry(which is my company car now) of American cars...simply bleh....but surprisingly I put 120,000 trouble free miles on it.

[Kitdy]

Chevy badged Commodore copcars would be exceptionally sick.

[NSXType-R]

One of my company cars was a '95 Lumina...it was the Camry(which is my company car now) of American cars...simply bleh....but surprisingly I put 120,000 trouble free miles on it.

Hey, at least it's a good workhorse.


Chevy badged Commodore copcars would be exceptionally sick.

Probably too expensive...? Base model, maybe.

[nota]

Chevy badged Commodore copcars would be exceptionally sick.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery :p


Holden badged Commodore SS copcars (http://www.midnorthcoastpolicevehicles.fotopic.net/p55745091.html)

[Dino Scuderia]

Nice...and sad article about Pontiac.

Autoextremist.com
No. 494,
April 29, 2009


The Soul Survivor is now just Dust in the Wind.

By Peter M. De Lorenzo

(Posted 4/27, 6:00PM) Detroit. Three years ago (3/1/06) I wrote a column entitled, “Soul Survivor or just Dust in the Wind?” It was about what Pontiac needed in order to survive and thrive again. Now, of course, it doesn’t matter. In the headlong rush to shrink General Motors – which is either looking more and more like chasing a moving target with no end in sight, or a motion-controlled train wreck, depending on your point of view – Pontiac, the once-storied enthusiast division that was breathing down Ford’s neck for second place in an auto business that once existed in a galaxy far, far away, has been relegated to the dust heap of an imploding American automobile industry, and will cease to exist sometime in 2010.

Since I’ve been writing about GM’s perpetual conundrum of too many models, too many divisions and too many dealers from Day One of this publication, it’s no big surprise that with the latest GM moves for “right-sizing” the company Pontiac was going to be put on the shelf. It didn’t have to come to this, of course, but it’s reality, as Fritz Henderson is fond of saying. The new GM will feature Cadillac and Chevrolet - and rightly so - with assists from Buick and GMC, but to see Pontiac come to an end like this, an afterthought discarded by the side of the road, is pathetic.

So today I am going to pause to honor one of the most glorious chapters in American automotive history, and an automotive brand that for one brief shining moment lit up the streets and byways of America with some of the finest automobiles this country has ever produced.

The legendary Pontiac names alone could power a rollcall from Detroit's golden era - Bonneville, Catalina, Tempest, Le Mans, GTO, "The Judge," Grand Prix, Firebird and Trans-Am. The rich additions to the automotive lexicon were legendary too - "389," "421," "455SD," "Tri-Power," "eight-lug" aluminum wheels, Royal Bobcats, "Endura" front bumpers, hood-mounted tachs, and on and on. And the marketing and advertising hooks were equally memorable - with the famous "Wide Track" campaign still resonating to this day. This was no ordinary car company, and its heyday marked an extraordinary time in American automotive history.

As most longtime AE readers know, Pontiac will always hold a special place in my heart for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is that for a kid growing up in the epicenter of the automotive universe at the time, and being part of a GM family to the core – my father was GM’s VP of Public Relations (only the second person to direct that function in the corporation’s history) – Pontiac was one of the GM brands that captured my imagination. I liked Chevrolet and Buick, too (my dad came up through Buick), but Pontiac, well, there was just nothing like it.

Rest of the article here:

Rants - Autoextremist.com ~ the bare-knuckled, unvarnished, high octane truth... (http://www.autoextremist.com/)

[fpv_gtho]

according to the jalopnik, LAPD has already put an order in for Commodores badged as chevys and set up for police work. i say badass, and bring the aussies on.

Maybe thats a contract someone in the US can keep. GM's almost killed Holden by pushing for the VE Commodore to be bigger than we needed it, then cancelling all plans (other than the G8 attempt) to either take a badge engineered variant or something spun off its platform like Camaro.

[digitalcraft]

I think this is a good example of the absolute corruption of the lineage of Dodge and GM. can you imagine Ford taking the Fusion and saying 'hey, that car could pass for a new Mustang!'? No. Because the Mustang lineage has something. Even 'it could be the next Thunderbird.'. The lates thunderbird effing SUCKED but it was at least true to the lineage. That's something Ford has done, keep some names valuable, which absolutely does not happen when you'll put any old POS car as the next in the series of the line for profit. it dilutes the name and makes it worthless, absolutely.

[SlickHolden]

So when does Pontiac got off-line ?.

[Dino Scuderia]

So when does Pontiac got off-line ?.

Sometime in 2010.

[cargirl1990]

I think this is a good example of the absolute corruption of the lineage of Dodge and GM. can you imagine Ford taking the Fusion and saying 'hey, that car could pass for a new Mustang!'? No. Because the Mustang lineage has something. Even 'it could be the next Thunderbird.'. The lates thunderbird effing SUCKED but it was at least true to the lineage. That's something Ford has done, keep some names valuable, which absolutely does not happen when you'll put any old POS car as the next in the series of the line for profit. it dilutes the name and makes it worthless, absolutely.

thats like when Ford was going to replace the 'Stang with that flippin Probe. what was going through their minds? Probes are just an uglified version of a Nissan 240SX.

[cmcpokey]

thats like when Ford was going to replace the 'Stang with that flippin Probe. what was going through their minds? Probes are just an uglified version of a Nissan 240SX.

actually, its a mazda MX-6..

[LeonOfTheDead]

and it's difficult to make an 240SX uglier.

[cargirl1990]

and it's difficult to make an 240SX uglier.

very true, im not saying it cuz i'm a Nissan fanatic, just saying it cuz alot of people in my city have these cars, and turn them into ricers. but then again...:D