Next Generation Viper to get Ferrari/Maserati Based V10? [Archive]

View Full Version : Next Generation Viper to get Ferrari/Maserati Based V10?

Kitdy

08-10-2009, 11:23 AM

So the rumour according to Car and Driver (http://blog.caranddriver.com/rumor-mill-viper-to-get-ferraserati-v-10/) via Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/10/report-next-gen-dodge-viper-could-get-ferrari-derived-v10/) is that the new Viper could get a version of the Ferrari/Maserati V8 that's been converted to a pushrod V10.

This sounds pretty sweet to me, maybe some pursits will cry foul but I say bring it on! A pushrod Italian derived V10 in a Viper sounds awesome!

wwgkd

08-10-2009, 11:26 AM

DesmoRob

08-10-2009, 11:29 AM

awesome! I like the idea. Hopefully we'll get an angry howl instead of the usual oversized camshaft splutter from the old V10.

Dino Scuderia

08-10-2009, 11:40 AM

My eyes glazed over when I read 'converted to pushrod'.....which also makes the rumor sound like a bad April Fools Joke.

wwgkd

08-10-2009, 11:50 AM

My eyes glazed over when I read 'converted to pushrod'.....which also makes the rumor sound like a bad April Fools Joke.

It's a viper, it has to.

LotusLocost

08-10-2009, 02:02 PM

My eyes glazed over when I read 'converted to pushrod'.....which also makes the rumor sound like a bad April Fools Joke.

This.

How would you 'convert' a V8 to a V10?? and from DOHC to pushrods?
Sounds like a new engine to me.. Why create a new one when they already have a pushrod V10? Technology normally goes forward.. not backwards..

Dino Scuderia

08-10-2009, 02:15 PM

It's a viper, it has to.

If so they need to call it 'Snake Oil', not Viper.

Kitdy

08-10-2009, 02:40 PM

pimento

08-10-2009, 04:59 PM

While I like the idea of a V10 being made available to Maserati, converting it to push-rod does seem ridiculous. Why wouldn't they just convert the Hemi if they want to do that?

wwgkd

08-10-2009, 05:13 PM

While I like the idea of a V10 being made available to Maserati, converting it to push-rod does seem ridiculous. Why wouldn't they just convert the Hemi if they want to do that?

Would make more sense. I just watched a car show where they converted a LS1 from FI to carbeurated. Seemed like kind of a travesty to me, but they ended up making 490hp so I guess at least they didn't screw up that part.

Roentgen

08-10-2009, 05:16 PM

Isn't the Viper famous for that V10 truck engine? Wouldn't this spoil the car a little? Idk...

For Viper money... I wouldn't buy a Viper.

wwgkd

08-10-2009, 05:18 PM

Isn't the Viper famous for that V10 truck engine? Wouldn't this spoil the car a little? Idk...

For Viper money... I wouldn't buy a Viper.

I don't know if it would be a real viper anymore, but it doesn't seem like the viper is going to last a whole lot longer as is anyways. I'd definitely buy a viper, as a 3rd or 4th car.

Turbo.Jenkens

08-10-2009, 05:35 PM

wwgkd

08-10-2009, 05:38 PM

I must be pretty dense, because I cannot comprehend where the pushrods and cam would go.

Personally I really don't think it matters how many cylinders or what the valvetrain configuration is. As long as performance, looks, and value compared to competitors is there people will by them.

Which is why 911s run any engine they think will work, and the corvette runs a turbo V6, right? No, for many cars the identity of the car is closely tied to the engine configuration it runs.

Turbo.Jenkens

08-10-2009, 05:44 PM

Which is why 911s run any engine they think will work, and the corvette runs a turbo V6, right? No, for many cars the identity of the car is closely tied to the engine configuration it runs.

No one cried when chevy dropped the blue flame 6. Viper doesn't exactly have the history of the two you mentioned either.

wwgkd

08-10-2009, 05:56 PM

No one cried when chevy dropped the blue flame 6. Viper doesn't exactly have the history of the two you mentioned either.

But they would if a corvette ran a turbo 4. Viper's haven't been around as long but the only engine they've run in 18 years is that monster V10. The only changes have been small increases in displacement and recently the addition of variable valve timing. You can't even think of a viper without thinking of that huge V10, so I'd say the history isn't as long, but it is there.

Turbo.Jenkens

08-10-2009, 06:11 PM

Not being a viper fan I have no emotional ties to the lump. If the next generation had a turbo V8 that made 10% more power, weighed 10% less, and sounded much better would you hate it?

pimento

08-10-2009, 06:11 PM

I think if they changed it to a better V10 and showed a nice performance increase then people wouldn't mind too much, but they'd probably cry foul if a V8 ended in there. Mainly because it'd likely be the 6.1 hemi, which isn't good enough for the Viper.

See The Fanboys vs Water Cooled 911s for precedence..

Turbo.Jenkens

08-10-2009, 06:25 PM

See The Fanboys vs Water Cooled 911s for precedence..

True, but they are still selling plenty of 911s....

If everyone was so resistant to change that they couldn't recognize the advantage of a new technology this would be Ultimatehorsepage.com

So how are they going to get the cam in the block? :D

wwgkd

08-10-2009, 06:31 PM

Not being a viper fan I have no emotional ties to the lump. If the next generation had a turbo V8 that made 10% more power, weighed 10% less, and sounded much better would you hate it?

I don't know about hating it, but I probably wouldn't like it anymore. I like it for what it is, I even like the bad interior. Change it too much and it may be a good car but it wouldn't really be a viper. If you want a turbo V8, why not just get a ZR1?

Black Edition

08-10-2009, 08:16 PM

hmm. a v10 for a viper developed by the italians. I guess they'll be reducing the displacement on this one.

Kitdy

08-10-2009, 09:15 PM

If everyone was so resistant to change that they couldn't recognize the advantage of a new technology this would be Ultimatehorsepage.com

Ferrer is probably that resistant to change - I hope when he comes back (he's taking a UCP vacation at current) that he reads this.

Ferrer, you ride them horses true and strong pal!

1 hp is all you need bro!

LTSmash

08-10-2009, 09:37 PM

cargirl1990

08-10-2009, 10:22 PM

Isn't the Viper famous for that V10 truck engine? Wouldn't this spoil the car a little? Idk...

For Viper money... I wouldn't buy a Viper.

no. the Viper got most of its engineering and design ( i think ) in Italy. they just put the V10 in the SRT10 Ram. very pointless i must say. and i thought this car was going to be killed/sold!

70cuda88

08-11-2009, 12:22 AM

I honestly think it's all a sham. If they were attempting to hype it up with all this Italian derived stuff, why would they ruin it with a pushrod style cam. And I'm pretty sure converting a DOHC to pushrod wouldn't be worth the trouble.

Just mah 2 cents.

pimento

08-11-2009, 12:27 AM

Seems it's not so much a conversion as developed with and related to the next generation of V8s. Or at least, that's how I read it.

Still a dumb idea.. make it DOHC and put it in the Quattroporte too..

digitalcraft

08-11-2009, 02:39 AM

So basically they're just going to carry over the Ferrari label?

LeonOfTheDead

08-11-2009, 03:21 AM

My eyes glazed over when I read 'converted to pushrod'.....which also makes the rumor sound like a bad April Fools Joke.

this once again

Would make more sense. I just watched a car show where they converted a LS1 from FI to carbeurated. Seemed like kind of a travesty to me, but they ended up making 490hp so I guess at least they didn't screw up that part.

that could have been achieved even with a good ECU tuning, something they probably weren't familiar with. I'd personally prefer to tune a carburetor than an ECU too.

I think this is just a BS spread by bored bloggers.
it's a complete nonsense. While I agree with wwgkd, that the Viper is pretty tied to its old school V10, I don't see the point of starting from a pretty expensive and possibly hand assembled engine for such a car.
Starting with an Hemi would just cut it, people didn't ask for an heritage of the V10 when it appeared, and having Lamborghini doing a part of the job was just the exotic touch to lunch the game. Nothing more.
Also, Lamborghini has a pretty different image from Ferrari and Maserati.
People like to think the Viper was one of the reasons why Fiat bought Chrysler, while ti was just a part of the deal, and even if I don't think they are going to drop it and let it die lonely, I think they will just allow the American side to develop it and spend a certain amount of money for it.
There are people waiting for more brutal Maserati', if you have to do something, do it that way, not trying to convert the Viper in something Italian and sophisticated because it is not that, it's possibly the most American car out there, to the eyes of the average European dude.

Black Edition

08-11-2009, 04:18 AM

So basically they're just going to carry over the Ferrari label?

I hope it wouldn't

culver

08-11-2009, 05:53 AM

Sounds like BS. As others have mentioned converting to pushrods would be very complex if not impossible. Also, the Viper engine is about big displacement. The Ferrari V8 is what half the displacement? How is adding two cylinders going to increase displacement to 8+ liters?

LeonOfTheDead

08-11-2009, 06:01 AM

possibly they don't even know how to decently design a pushrods engine...

culver

08-11-2009, 06:48 AM

possibly they don't even know how to decently design a pushrods engine...

Well in theory Ilmor and Mercedes had no idea how to design a pushrod motor but they did OK. However, rumor has it Ilmor was working on the general idea when they were still working with GM. Who knows, maybe GM gave them a few pointers without realized what they were actually giving away. Just speculation.

The whole notion seems somewhat silly as the Viper V10 is part of the character of the car and currently makes 600hp. However, I wouldn't cry if the car got a HEMI V8. It would nice to again see the HEMI in a real sports car, not just a muscle car.

(Yes, the Viper is a real sports car).

wwgkd

08-11-2009, 07:23 AM

that could have been achieved even with a good ECU tuning, something they probably weren't familiar with. I'd personally prefer to tune a carburetor than an ECU too.

There are people waiting for more brutal Maserati', if you have to do something, do it that way, not trying to convert the Viper in something Italian and sophisticated because it is not that, it's possibly the most American car out there, to the eyes of the average European dude.

That show has actually built 900hp multi port fuel injected monster, so it's not that they don't know how to tune one. I can understand someone wanting a carbureted engine (I prefer FI myself but I can at least recognize the appeal,) but I really don't see the point of converting an LS1.

I'll take that as a compliment, I think.

Well in theory Ilmor and Mercedes had no idea how to design a pushrod motor but they did OK. However, rumor has it Ilmor was working on the general idea when they were still working with GM. Who knows, maybe GM gave them a few pointers without realized what they were actually giving away. Just speculation.

The whole notion seems somewhat silly as the Viper V10 is part of the character of the car and currently makes 600hp. However, I wouldn't cry if the car got a HEMI V8. It would nice to again see the HEMI in a real sports car, not just a muscle car.

(Yes, the Viper is a real sports car).

They had a couple of concept where they put a hemi into the viper chasis, but aside from the styling they weren't that popular. With the weight being basically the same and a huge cut to power the only real advantage was cost, which wouldn't have been that huge of a difference.

LeonOfTheDead

08-11-2009, 07:49 AM

I'll take that as a compliment, I think.

I think it was :).

NSXType-R

08-11-2009, 01:29 PM

Converting a V8 to a V10 is doable I think - Audi's V10 as I recall is an extension of their V8 - just two added cylinders and it remains a 90 degree angle.

As for the pushrods I don't know enough about engines to know if that makes any sense but it does seem unnecessarily complicated.

Keep in mind, this story is rumour and by the sounds of Dino and Lotus then it's probably BS.

In theory, I don't think it's as easy as that, but if this rumor is true, that's what they would do. The casting process would be completely different, etc etc.

Isn't the Viper famous for that V10 truck engine? Wouldn't this spoil the car a little? Idk...

For Viper money... I wouldn't buy a Viper.

Yeah, I always liked the Viper over the Corvette by a little bit. We'll just have to wait and see what happens to the car.

No one cried when chevy dropped the blue flame 6. Viper doesn't exactly have the history of the two you mentioned either.

It would be equivalent I think to Honda dropping all inline 4s and going with V6s and bigger engines. It just wouldn't work with the idea of the car itself.

But they would if a corvette ran a turbo 4. Viper's haven't been around as long but the only engine they've run in 18 years is that monster V10. The only changes have been small increases in displacement and recently the addition of variable valve timing. You can't even think of a viper without thinking of that huge V10, so I'd say the history isn't as long, but it is there.

Yeah, I agree, they should keep it a massive V10. That was the whole point of the car anyway. If I wanted a high revving V10, I'd get a Lamborghini or Audi R8 V10.

ThisBlood147

08-22-2009, 01:45 AM

Convert DOHC to a pushrod design? WTF? That's not a conversion. That's a different motor. Kind of like converting a VW Bug into a Datsun pickup truck: sounds............stupid.:D

Ferrer

08-22-2009, 03:57 PM

Ferrer is probably that resistant to change - I hope when he comes back (he's taking a UCP vacation at current) that he reads this.

Ferrer, you ride them horses true and strong pal!

1 hp is all you need bro!
Viper with an italian engine is like a culturist top model. It doesn't make any sense.

Muscle cars are one thing. Italian cars that brake down all the time are another.