Car and Driver 10Best Engines of the Moment

[Kitdy]

I think they are talking about US market engines here.

BMW Twin-Turbo 3.0-liter Inline-6

BMW 4.0-liter V-8

Ferrari 4.3-liter V-8

Ford Twin-Turbo 3.5-liter V-6

GM Supercharged 6.2-liter V-8

Honda 2.0-liter Inline-4

Lamborghini/Audi 5.2-liter V-10

Mercedes-Benz 6.2-liter V-8

Porsche 3.8-liter Flat-6

VW/Audi Turbo 2.0-liter Inline-4

What do you guys think? What would you put in there from European market cars?

[henk4]

obviously they have a blind spot for the d-word.

[clutch-monkey]

i think they just don't have any good ones, henk.

[henk4]

i think they just don't have any good ones, henk.

I know that C&D tested the 335D....in comparison to the petrol version, and IIRC, it won....

[Ferrer]

I know that C&D tested the 335D....in comparison to the petrol version, and IIRC, it won....
And it's not as good as ours. And if you want a diesel one of the new twin turbo fours are probably a best bet.

Off the top of my head I would include VW's TSi and Fiat's new Multiairs.

[Kitdy]

I know that C&D tested the 335D....in comparison to the petrol version, and IIRC, it won....

The diesel was actually included for some reason with the 335i engine (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_engines_of_the_moment_-10best_cars).

Pretty stupid that they lumped the diesel and gasoline together.

[henk4]

The diesel was actually included for some reason with the 335i engine (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_engines_of_the_moment_-10best_cars).

Pretty stupid that they lumped the diesel and gasoline together.

stupid indeed, they could also have mentioned that the 2 liter VAG engine comes as a diesel...

[Ferrer]

So that's actually the 11Best engines...

[henk4]

So that's actually the 11Best engines...
perhaps counting further than 10 meets with great difficulties....

[Kitdy]

Ferrer I thought you might be interested, apparently the N54B30 in the 335i in the US has trouble. From Wiki:


In at least the US market, the N54 engine has been characterized by a very large number of High Pressure Fuel Pump (HPFP) failures, leading to many BMW NA vehicle Lemon Law "buy backs" and reduced customer goodwill. On some engines the HPFP was replaced four times within the first few years of service. BMW has instituted a 10-year, 120,000 mile warranty on the part, but only for 2007 and 2008 model year vehicles with the N54 engine. Other model years, to include 2009 models, continue to report HPFP failures.[4] As of late 2009, the low pressure fuel sensor has become suspected of causing some premature failures of the HPFP by engine tuners such as AMS and CP-E.

That ain't good. Lemon law buy backs? Poor.

[Ferrer]

That's not good indeed. But I haven't heard or read about anything similar here.

[RacingManiac]

surprised GTR's lump isn't in that list......granted I don't know what would be bumped off that...

[drakkie]

The powerplant in the Honda Insight. 1.3liter petrol 65kW + 10kW electric motor. Very smooth. The first hybrid I like. Takes a while to get used to buy I'd but it if I had the money. The car even oversteers very nicely!

Not just performance engines can be good ;)

[Ferrer]

The powerplant in the Honda Insight. 1.3liter petrol 65kW + 10kW electric motor. Very smooth. The first hybrid I like. Takes a while to get used to buy I'd but it if I had the money. The car even oversteers very nicely!

Not just performance engines can be good ;)
Having driven the latest Prius they aren't entirely a bad idea, but it needs more development. For what they are, they are too expensive.

[culver]

The Prius drive line is much different than the Insight's. In the Honda system the IC Engine and electric motor are attached. One can't spin without the other. Toyota's system allows a large degree of blending of the two motors and allows electric only operation without spinning the gas motor.

[drakkie]

Having driven the latest Prius they aren't entirely a bad idea, but it needs more development. For what they are, they are too expensive.

The latest Insight is just €1500 more than a VW Golf, drives just as well and is more economic. That argument doesn't go anymore. After a few thousand kilometers in the Insight it grew on me unlike the Prius.

We have a Insight Mk.1 preseries model and a Mk.2 at the office now. I have done about 2500km in the Mk.2 and 800km in the Mk.1 at the moment.

[henk4]

The latest Insight is just €1500 more than a VW Golf, drives just as well and is more economic. That argument doesn't go anymore.
don't compare Dutch prices, you know how much hybrids are subsidised over here.

[drakkie]

don't compare Dutch prices, you know how much hybrids are subsidised over here.

True. But so they are in a lot of other countries. I'll try and find some untaxed prices tomorrow.

[Ferrer]

The latest Insight is just €1500 more than a VW Golf, drives just as well and is more economic. That argument doesn't go anymore. After a few thousand kilometers in the Insight it grew on me unlike the Prius.

We have a Insight Mk.1 preseries model and a Mk.2 at the office now. I have done about 2500km in the Mk.2 and 800km in the Mk.1 at the moment.
Honda Insight base model 18.900€. Combined fuel consumption 4,4l/100km.

Seat Leon 1.9 TDI Ecomotive 16.450€. Combined fuel consumption 4,5l/100km.

So they are still fail. And at European driving speeds and conditions they are even more fail.

As I said though, the idea isn't inherently bad. They just need more development.

[Kitdy]

The Insight is supposed to be a piece of shit too. I read it rode horribly and was in general was garbage. I can't remember specific problems though.

[coolieman1220]

don't see whats sooo great about some of these engines. some of them you need to spend near 100k to get in a car and then when you do that how often will you get to use it?

[Kitdy]

don't see whats sooo great about some of these engines. some of them you need to spend near 100k to get in a car and then when you do that how often will you get to use it?

What do you propose then? A certain VQ perhaps?

[clutch-monkey]

don't see whats sooo great about some of these engines. some of them you need to spend near 100k to get in a car and then when you do that how often will you get to use it?

at least 8 of those look to be perfectly useable every day?

[henk4]

True. But so they are in a lot of other countries. I'll try and find some untaxed prices tomorrow.
try to find untaxed prices for diesel cars too..they are rather penalised...

[culver]

I didn't realize diesel cars faced tax penalties in Europe. From what I've seen most European countries have lower taxes on diesel fuel than gasoline. The price at the pump may still be higher than for gas but that is a factor of the base cost of the fuel, not the taxes levied. Of course that is a statement generalized across Europe. When I looked at the data, which I think was posted on this site, some countries had about equal taxes for diesel.

[henk4]

I didn't realize diesel cars faced tax penalties in Europe. From what I've seen most European countries have lower taxes on diesel fuel than gasoline. The price at the pump may still be higher than for gas but that is a factor of the base cost of the fuel, not the taxes levied. Of course that is a statement generalized across Europe. When I looked at the data, which I think was posted on this site, some countries had about equal taxes for diesel.

Tax penalties for diesels are especially levied in Holland. As Drakkie was comparing the Dutch price for an Insight with that of a (petrol) Golf, he should also have mentioned that hybrids come under a special tax tariff (or exempt from the regular tax). Ferrer then brought the Seat Tdi into the equation. This only concerns purchase taxes. (There are also differences in annual road tax depending on the fuel, i.e. petrol, diesel or LPG)

[Ferrer]

Here annual road tax is applied depending on the dispalcement of the engine and the number of cylinder (fiscal power).

Registering taxes (to be paid when you buy the car) are applied depending on CO2 emissions. I believe cars under 120gr/km are exempt.