Ford Focus 2011-12

[Dino Scuderia]

I think this is one of the stars of NAIAS.

Ford is on a roll with it's new product pipeline. This is a massive improvement in design over the current Focus IMO and towers above the looks of the Mazda 3.



The 2011 Focus could be described as the first, second-generation Kinetic design from Ford, as the look has evolved a bit from the most recent batch of European Fords. Among the hallmarks of Kinetic design have been a large trapezoidal lower grille, bold wheel arches and a prominent character line running from the front wheel back to the rear quarter.

On the new Focus, longitudinal creases in the hood extend down between the upper grille into the trapezoid dividing it into three sections. The wheel arch creases now extend straight back from the top of the arch above the main lateral crease blending out a few inches behind the start of the lower line. A similar crease is echoed on the rear quarter with the overlap area at each end forming a "Z" that Ford refers to as a "Zorro flip." The rear quarter character line also forms a prominent rear shoulder area. Around the back, large tail-lamp clusters finish off the bold styling. Some might consider the styling a bit too bold or over-done, but it works quite well in person and certainly makes the new Focus stand out in this crowded segment.

This is hardly Ford's first attempt at a global design. The early '80s Escort, the first-generation Focus and the Mondeo/Contour were all attempts at "world cars" that went awry. Ford addressed the question of such world cars having failed in the past and why it might work now. First of all, each of those previous attempts ended up diverging because of different regional demands and tastes. However, Ford says that global tastes are converging in terms of design and vehicle requirements in this Internet age.

When the U.S. Focus was refreshed a couple of years ago, management opted to discontinue the previous three- and five-door hatchbacks in favor or a two-door coupe to accompany the sedan. In the intervening years, it's become increasingly clear that hatchbacks do have some appeal in this market if they're made desirable enough. As a result, the next-gen Focus, which likely will be labeled a 2011 model, will be offered to Americans as a four-door sedan and five-door hatchback just like the new Fiesta. The sedan also will get a swept roof-line and tall rear deck profile like the Fiesta sedan.

The new sedan is dimensionally about one inch lower than the outgoing Focus sedan but a little less than an inch wider than the current European model. The overall length and weight are claimed to be about the same, as is the interior volume. Speaking of the interior, the sedan that we previewed had an interior that takes compact cars to a whole new level. The car we were shown was a Titanium trim level, which is new to the U.S. market but has been offered in Europe for several years already.

After Ford started offering the Titanium trim in Europe, it was surprised at the popularity of such a premium finish in this class of car. As many as 40 percent of European buyers have opted for the Titanium trim level, and on the Mondeo it's up to 60 percent. The inside of the new Focus looks like something you would expect to find in an Audi or Lexus more than the direct descendant of the Escort. Will Americans be willing to pay prices up to the low $20,000-range for a Focus? We'll find out soon enough. At this point, we don't know what the base level trim will look like, but if the Fiesta is anything to go by, it should still be much nicer than any current Focus.

After being the debut vehicle for SYNC three years ago, the Focus will be one of the first Ford models offered with the optional MyFord Touch control system that debuts this summer in the new Lincoln MKX. In addition, drivers who opt for navigation will get a new eight-inch screen – by far the largest we've ever encountered in a small car.

When the first-generation Focus appeared a decade ago, it was praised for its driving dynamics and the current Euro model is considered among the best of its breed. The 300-hp Focus RS has been renowned as one of the most un-front-wheel-drive-like front-wheel-drive cars ever. While there are currently no plans for an RS model here in the U.S., North American Focus chief engineer Jim Hughes does promise that nothing will be lost in translation when this Focus hits U.S. roads.

Like other new Fords, the next-gen Focus also is getting an electric power assist system (EPAS) for its steering, which helps to reduce fuel consumption by cutting parasitic losses. Hughes claims the Focus dynamics team has improved the steering precision and feel with this EPAS system, something we'll have to judge for ourselves later in the year when we get a chance to drive it. Until now, EPAS has tended to be a mixed bag, with some applications like the Honda Fit having excellent feel while others have no feedback. Ford applications have generally done pretty well on this count, so we are hopeful.

One more interesting feature that will be available on the next-gen Focus is Dynamic Cornering Control. While torque vectoring has been increasingly used in high performance all-wheel-drive systems from Acura, BMW and Audi, Ford is applying the concept to the front-wheel-drive Focus. If it delivers, this should help provide even better handling balance with less understeer in the new compact.

American Focus buyers will get one brand new engine and two transmission options at launch early next year. Like other new Fords, six-speed gearboxes are now the norm for Focus with a choice of manual or dual-clutch PowerShift units available. No traditional torque converter automatic will be offered in the Focus, but the PowerShift will get manual shift capability unlike the Fiesta. Unfortunately, the manual control comes by way of a switch on the side of the shift knob – no wheel-mounted shift paddles.

The engine is a new 2.0-liter direct-injected four-cylinder, which will also form the basis of the upcoming 2.0-liter EcoBoost. The normally aspirated unit will be rated at an estimated 155 hp and 145 pound-feet. Both cams are equipped with variable phasing using the same cam-torque actuation system as the Fusion's 2.5-liter and the new 5.0-liter V8 in the Mustang. Thanks to the charge cooling effect of direct injection, the new engine will have a 12:1 compression ratio, which should aid low end torque production. The new engine will also be E85 flex-fuel capable, a first for a DI engine. No one from Ford would confirm the availability of an EcoBoost engine in the Focus, but they did hint that the 1.6-liter GTDI would eventually be an option. Another feature that will be new to the Focus is automatic start-stop functionality that switches off the engine when the car comes to a halt. This will be one of the first such applications in the U.S. market in a non-hybrid vehicle.

The other powertrain that we'll definitely see in the Focus is a full battery electric option. The Focus Electric will join the lineup sometime in 2011 using a lithium ion battery pack and electric drive developed in cooperation with Magna International. The Focus Electric is expected to have a driving range of 80-100 miles.

Ford isn't talking mileage numbers for the next-gen Focus yet, but it clearly is a priority for the new car. With Chevrolet aiming for 40+ mpg on the highway for the the Cruze, Ford will surely be trying to match it. To that end, designers have also focused a lot on functional aerodynamics in addition to just aesthetic styling. One of the more interesting features are thermostatically controlled shutters behind the grille. At higher speeds when more air naturally flows through the radiator, the shutters automatically close and force air around the sides of the car.

The new Focus body has also been designed to meet crash safety standards globally with a common structure. In order to meet those divergent requirements without adding excessive weight, the structure is comprised of 55 percent high strength steels. The B-pillar is produced by a process known as tailored rolling that makes eight different gauge thicknesses across its length. This allows strength to be put where its needed while keeping mass to a minimum. As with all new cars, there is a plethora of air bags that can inflate from all directions, and new inflators allow them to deploy 30 percent faster than in the current Focus.

One of the reasons that the first-gen Focus encountered so many quality problems was untested production processes. Focuses built in Europe and North America were produced on completely different machinery with completely different processes, and Euro models never had the issues that occurred here. Going forward, the One Forward policy applies across the board including design and manufacturing. Focuses built in France, Spain, China and Michigan will all use the same equipment, work instructions and production steps.

Production of the Focus will start almost simultaneously in Wayne, Michigan and Saarlouis, France late in 2010, with additional production starting over the next two years in Russia and China. The media preview we attended a few weeks ago was held at the newly renamed Michigan Assembly Plant (MAP). Until early 2009, the plant was known as Michigan Truck Plant and housed Navigator and Expedition production. MAP is one of three truck plants that are being converted to car production and Ford is making a big bet that this is the right way to go. It will no doubt help the Blue Oval meet its upcoming CAFE obligations. Now it just has to convince consumers to buy all these cars its building. Things look promising so far with the Fusion breaking sales records, the Fiesta building buzz and now this, the next-gen Focus, which should take the fight straight to cars like the Cruze, Civic and Corolla.

Autoblog

[Dino Scuderia]

Focus 2011-12 #2

[Dino Scuderia]

Focus 2011-12 #3

[Ferrer]

It looks bloated.

Also the 2 litre Ecoboost is already available in the Galaxy and S-Max.

[RacingManiac]

It looks bloated.

Also the 2 litre Ecoboost is already available in the Galaxy and S-Max.

But you European have to look at this from our view....we've had the same Focus for 10 years.....While in the same time in Europe it has gone through 2 generations...

How much power does the Ecoboost make over there?

Finally though, the sedan looks as good as the hatch...

[LeonOfTheDead]

Finally though, the sedan looks as good as the hatch...

Except that this hatch doesn't look that good so far.
I'd rather buy a new Megane, but then again, you can't have that either.

[cmcpokey]

it excites me that we may have a tolerable american small car. while i am not in the market for one, i have been longing for the day when we get the same quality you guys do over there. now if only we got the ST and RS

[Ferrer]

But you European have to look at this from our view....we've had the same Focus for 10 years.....While in the same time in Europe it has gone through 2 generations...

How much power does the Ecoboost make over there?

Finally though, the sedan looks as good as the hatch...
203bhp IIRC.

Except that this hatch doesn't look that good so far.
I'd rather buy a new Megane, but then again, you can't have that either.
The only good Megane point (RS aside) is cheap power. Other than that I'd rather be in a Leon.

[henk4]

They could actually put in the engine that is running underneath my bonnet....would suit American driving style perfectly.

[RacingManiac]

btw, this also makes more better rental car fleet.....

[Matra et Alpine]

wth .. that is UGLY and a dogs-dinner of differing designs.
WOrst that screams "bad desgin" is the different look in the side profile for the rear and front wheel arches.
The rear is reminiscen tof the Mazda style where the front remidns me of the 70s Alfa.
Front and rear designed wiuth NO synergy and just don't# fit together.

I give it a year and their will be a "mid-life update" to correct that faux-pas.
It better handle well or it's doomed in the UK :)

[Dino Scuderia]

btw, this also makes more better rental car fleet.....

Car makers can't take that aim anymore...low margin/volume fleet sales will not be on their agenda.

[ZeTurbo]

i dont get it... why go the trouble of developing a new focus when there is an a great one one allready sold in europe? are the market demands so far a part? how can mercedes, audi, toyota, honda, mazda etc sell the same cars (though with different engines) in europe & north america and ford cant? what the hell? Didn't ford just do that with the fiesta? what is so peculiar about the european Focus thant CANT be brought to NA?

EDIT: btw, it is a definite improvement over the current focus, but still not pretty.. where is the 2door hatch anyways?

[henk4]

i dont get it... why go the trouble of developing a new focus when there is an a great one one allready sold in europe?
I can only assume that this version will also be the 2011 car sold in Europe, replacing (and improving?) the current one.

[Ferrer]

They could actually put in the engine that is running underneath my bonnet....would suit American driving style perfectly.
Fuel price advantage removed, why?

[LeonOfTheDead]

The only good Megane point (RS aside) is cheap power. Other than that I'd rather be in a Leon.

I mentioned the Megane because I think this Focus is extremely similar fromt he back, but the front is much worse, talking about style.
Talking about the technical side, I would go for the Megane if I needed a family hatch with good quality and a decent price. that would have been the Focus role, but the front bumper is ugly and I think it could also cost more, comparatively, than the present generation, which has its strongest point in the price/quality ratio.
I'd consider the Bravo as well, but its front end already looks ten years old. The interior is excellent though.

The Leon has just one good thing in my book. Actually it has just one characteristic, and that's its go-kart suspensions setup. That's interesting only if opting for some sporty version, being the FR ir the Cupra, otherwise as an everyday car I never liked, it's aging (badly), and the interior's materials' quality isn't good enough for its price.
Then I should remember myself its a VAG, so no go for me. Never liked them, even ofter having one in the family. Actually two, but that was an old Ibiza with the Porsche ignition system, another story...

[kigango123]

It is quite hard to justify the price hikes and long design time that the focus has had for the american market. I would think that most of this time was used for powerplant and transmission improvement rather than on the actual focus but i am taking a guess, I don't know what is with ford

certainly i don't think that the price hikes are necessary or prudent.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

The details let this down - the rear lights seriously look like the designer sneezed mid-line and thought "hey, thats not bad...."

No doubt they'll handle sweetly and be exceptionally well equipped for their price, and for the American market I agree, this will be a revelation, but...if this is the evolution of Kinetic and New Edge....bleh.

[Ferrer]

I mentioned the Megane because I think this Focus is extremely similar fromt he back, but the front is much worse, talking about style.
Talking about the technical side, I would go for the Megane if I needed a family hatch with good quality and a decent price. that would have been the Focus role, but the front bumper is ugly and I think it could also cost more, comparatively, than the present generation, which has its strongest point in the price/quality ratio.
I'd consider the Bravo as well, but its front end already looks ten years old. The interior is excellent though.

The Leon has just one good thing in my book. Actually it has just one characteristic, and that's its go-kart suspensions setup. That's interesting only if opting for some sporty version, being the FR ir the Cupra, otherwise as an everyday car I never liked, it's aging (badly), and the interior's materials' quality isn't good enough for its price.
Then I should remember myself its a VAG, so no go for me. Never liked them, even ofter having one in the family. Actually two, but that was an old Ibiza with the Porsche ignition system, another story...
The Focus will still drive brilliantly probably. However I guess that all we could do now is buy the second generation Focus before they retire it. Or buy the Mazda 3, which may be big but at least it's better looking than this.

As for the Leon I don't think the versions with normal suspension are that bad, but at the same time you can have a pseudo-driver's car without breaking the bank. And the 1.8 TSi is quite fast and affordable. I've read that even FR and Cupra (especially) versions are quite civilised, even compared to the first generation cars.

[henk4]

Fuel price advantage removed, why?

torque.

[Ferrer]

torque.
I guess that'll be solved with the turbo engine which will also have low down torque.

[henk4]

I guess that'll be solved with the turbo engine which will also have low down torque.

only partly and with much a higher fuel consumption...

[ruim20]

Isn't this just a 'cover' over the current Euro Focus?

[Ferrer]

only partly and with much a higher fuel consumption...
Agree, altough they solve that by giving petrol cars much shorter gear ratios than their diesel equivalents and therefore having no disadvantage in in-gear acceleration.

As for the fuel consumption, again agree. But with their fuel prices it simpley isn't an issue. Well maybe the only issue, money aside, would be having to stop more often for fuel due to the reduced range.

[henk4]

As for the fuel consumption, again agree. But with their fuel prices it simpley isn't an issue. Well maybe the only issue, money aside, would be having to stop more often for fuel due to the reduced range.

In times of increasing scarcity of mineral resources any reduction of the consumption thereof is an issue, regardless of its price.

[Ferrer]

In times of increasing scarcity of mineral resources any reduction of the consumption thereof is an issue, regardless of its price.
Touché.

[syko]

Isn't this just a 'cover' over the current Euro Focus?

As I understand it, it's the new platform that replaces the C1 platform the current focus,mazda3,vovlo c3 is based on. Which is why its not going into production until the end of the year.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The Focus will still drive brilliantly probably. However I guess that all we could do now is buy the second generation Focus before they retire it. Or buy the Mazda 3, which may be big but at least it's better looking than this.

As for the Leon I don't think the versions with normal suspension are that bad, but at the same time you can have a pseudo-driver's car without breaking the bank. And the 1.8 TSi is quite fast and affordable. I've read that even FR and Cupra (especially) versions are quite civilised, even compared to the first generation cars.

AFAIK the FR and Cupra have too harsh suspensions to consider them as comfortable. Their abilities on tracks are obvious higher than the competition, but at the same time track days are yet a minor part of the life of such a car and generally the driver won't get very close to the car's limits.

[Innotech]

this looks so much better than the current euro Focus.

[ruim20]

As I understand it, it's the new platform that replaces the C1 platform the current focus,mazda3,vovlo c3 is based on. Which is why its not going into production until the end of the year.

So this will be the chassis of the new Euro Focus as well? Maybe new look as well, like an inverted Fiesta process?

[Clivey]

it excites me that we may have a tolerable american small car. while i am not in the market for one, i have been longing for the day when we get the same quality you guys do over there. now if only we got the ST and RS

We are finally seeing a genuine "World car" here. Ford tried with the first Focus, with limited success, but there were a massive amount of differences between the European market cars and those sold in North America. In this case, it appears that the car has been designed from the start to meet the legislative criteria of most of its' intended markets without so many specific modifications.

Another interesting point is that whilst a D-segment car is the average size of a car in Europe, it's considered small in places like Australia and the U.S. I wonder how long it will be before the current craze for being "green" and the increasing price of fuel will affect the size of vehicles that consumers actually purchase.


wth .. that is UGLY and a dogs-dinner of differing designs.
WOrst that screams "bad desgin" is the different look in the side profile for the rear and front wheel arches.
The rear is reminiscen tof the Mazda style where the front remidns me of the 70s Alfa.
Front and rear designed wiuth NO synergy and just don't# fit together.

I give it a year and their will be a "mid-life update" to correct that faux-pas.
It better handle well or it's doomed in the UK :)

I totally agree Peter. There are some nice / different design touches in there, but there's no consistency and they don't gel together as a whole - it's almost as if someone photoshopped those images using various parts from lots of different cars...and the interior is just as bad - it's a mess and it'd take hours to find some of the more minor controls it's so busy in there.

And I know I keep mentioning it...but why the hell do the designers keep sticking HUGE grilles on the front of new designs now? The nose looks like a cross between an angry dragon from a Japanese cartoon and Gordon Ramsay's orgasm face. The new Astra and Golf don't look like this.


i dont get it... why go the trouble of developing a new focus....

I take it you mean "for the American market"? - If so, see my answer below.


...when there is an a great one one allready sold in europe? are the market demands so far a part? how can mercedes, audi, toyota, honda, mazda etc sell the same cars (though with different engines) in europe & north america and ford cant? what the hell? Didn't ford just do that with the fiesta? what is so peculiar about the european Focus thant CANT be brought to NA?

EDIT: btw, it is a definite improvement over the current focus, but still not pretty.. where is the 2door hatch anyways?

From reading the info in the original post, I think this design is intended as a World Car (to replace the current versions of the Focus in both Europe AND North America). The current NA Focus looks, to be frank, rubbish, and the European one is due for replacement anyway (partly because the competition has clearly surpassed it).

[syko]

So this will be the chassis of the new Euro Focus as well? Maybe new look as well, like an inverted Fiesta process?

This is the new euro focus, it will look largely unchanged when it is revealed at euro auto shows.

[cargirl1990]

That looks good.

[Ferrer]

The Mondeo/Contour was there before the Focus as a world car for Ford but that ended being a flop. Maybe there's an even earlier example, but I can't remember right now.

Apparently next is the Mondeo, being designed as a world car at the US. I don't, know at least in Europe Ford seems to me to be losing it a bit.

[Dino Scuderia]

The Mondeo/Contour was there before the Focus as a world car for Ford but that ended being a flop. Maybe there's an even earlier example, but I can't remember right now.

Apparently next is the Mondeo, being designed as a world car at the US. I don't, know at least in Europe Ford seems to me to be losing it a bit.

The Ford Fusion in the US is very successful...I can't see Ford reintroducing the Mondeo here mucking up the waters in their current pipeline. At least not for a couple more years as the Fusion ages.

Do you have a time line for the Mondeo?

[syko]

The Ford Fusion in the US is very successful...I can't see Ford reintroducing the Mondeo here mucking up the waters in their current pipeline. At least not for a couple more years as the Fusion ages.

Do you have a time line for the Mondeo?

They won't replace the fusion they just will combine the model's so that it will be the same car but sold as different names in europe and the usa.

The new Mondeo is due in 2014 with a refresh happening this year

[Ferrer]

The Ford Fusion in the US is very successful...I can't see Ford reintroducing the Mondeo here mucking up the waters in their current pipeline. At least not for a couple more years as the Fusion ages.

Do you have a time line for the Mondeo?
I believe the Mondeo is due to be replaced in late 2011 or early 2012.

However, it's not Ford reintroducing the Mondeo, since it's being designed and engineered in the US it's more like introducing the Fusion in Europe.

EDIT By the way, are Fords dynamically as highly regarded in the US as they are in Europe?

[Clivey]

They could actually put in the engine that is running underneath my bonnet....would suit American driving style perfectly.

It would, but from my experience in the US (last visit was July '09) you wouldn't save much, if any money by running a diesel due to the fact that diesel is quite a bit more expensive than petrol.

- The best option for Americans would be an efficient petrol engine or, in the future (for non-enthusiasts), electric cars using the latest (lightweight etc.) battery technology.

[henk4]

It would, but from my experience in the US (last visit was July '09) you wouldn't save much, if any money by running a diesel due to the fact that diesel is quite a bit more expensive than petrol.

As I said earlier, it surely would safe fuel, not necessarily money.

[Kitdy]

It would, but from my experience in the US (last visit was July '09) you wouldn't save much, if any money by running a diesel due to the fact that diesel is quite a bit more expensive than petrol.

- The best option for Americans would be an efficient petrol engine or, in the future (for non-enthusiasts), electric cars using the latest (lightweight etc.) battery technology.

Why do you guys always forget about Canada?!

I was at the gas station and actually thought to look at the price of diesel. As I recall, gas was 97.5 and diesel 99.9 - so a very minor difference. I shall try to note the diesel price more often in future.

I believe it's been discussed before on UCP that diesel prices in the US vary widely - though I could be wrong.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The fact that a diesel engine may not save your money never prevented people from buying hybrids when driving for 10.000 miles per year.

And if any of you want to die laughing, do the math to check how much one should drive a Tesla Roadster to have spent the same amount of money if he had bought an Elise R.

SPOILER ALERT! answer at the end in white: with an average petrol price of 1,345 € per liter here in Italy, a price difference of 52.000 €, a declared combined mileage of 8,5 liters/100 km for the Lotus and an equivalent mileage of 2 liters/100 km for the Tesla (source: EPA), over 600.000 km seems to be the answer.

And even if the Tesla is quicker on the 0-60 mph sprint, it's also 370 kg heavier, and considerably slower on a track, which should be the point of such chassis you'd say...

I'm not against hybrids (heck, I'm writing my thesis on them) or electric cars (checked them too), but quite often, and pretty obviously, it's only about the hype and the status symbol rather than saving the planet or your wallet.
We already discussed about that, just it should let us wondering why it didn't work with diesel engines (States side that is).

[Clivey]

As I said earlier, it surely would safe fuel, not necessarily money.

Oh I agree with you without question regarding that. However, there are generally two main reasons that people cite as to why they prefer diesels:

1. They save money because diesel engines usually use less fuel than their petrol counterparts

2. Some perceive diesels to be "greener" than the equivalent petrol
However, I seem to recall reading that burning diesel is in fact far worse for the environment than burning petrol. Do you (or does anyone else) have any facts?

Now from my experience, saving money matters more to most people than tailpipe emissions because they feel the effects of saving money instantly, whereas it takes far longer before they feel the consequences of their tailpipe emissions.

However if you're really serious about preserving the current environment and Earth's natural resources, the best option is to invest in new technology and move way from IC engines entirely.


Why do you guys always forget about Canada?!

I said "from my experience in the US" - The only experience I have of Canada was the inside of Gander Airport whilst the plane refuelled en-route to Florida.:D


I was at the gas station and actually thought to look at the price of diesel. As I recall, gas was 97.5 and diesel 99.9 - so a very minor difference. I shall try to note the diesel price more often in future.

That's actually less of a difference than here - at the moment petrol is around 10% cheaper than diesel here. - That means that drivers in your region have more to gain than us by switching to a fuel efficient diesel...

...although seeing as fuel is comparatively cheap in Canada, I'd stick with the greater driving pleasure offered by a nice petrol engine.;)

I just wanted to add: This is going waaaay off topic here, so shall we continue this discussion in a different thread?

[Ferrer]

The fact that a diesel engine may not save your money never prevented people from buying hybrids when driving for 10.000 miles per year.
Or diesels for that matter.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Or diesels for that matter.

I was contextualizing the situation in the States, but yes, the point is the same.

[Dino Scuderia]

I believe the Mondeo is due to be replaced in late 2011 or early 2012.

However, it's not Ford reintroducing the Mondeo, since it's being designed and engineered in the US it's more like introducing the Fusion in Europe.

EDIT By the way, are Fords dynamically as highly regarded in the US as they are in Europe?

If they put a Mondeo badge on it and sell it next to a Fusion then it is diluting the product mix. The Fusion is already a bit too close to the size of the new Taurus. Both cars enjoying spirited sales for now.

I wouldn't say Ford's are necessarily highly regarded, they are just currently enjoying a resurgence partly out of respect that they didn't have to take bail-out money and partly because people like the new cars they have.

[Kitdy]

Both cars enjoying spirited sales for now.

Where did you find sales figures for the Taurus?

[Dino Scuderia]

Where did you find sales figures for the Taurus?

38,361 through November '09 which is actually down from '08...there are the economic conditions to consider.

Ford changed the mix because of more demand for the SEL and SHO versions late in the year.

I see a lot of them on the road and have talked to a couple of new Taurus owners who are very pleased with it.

[Kitdy]

38,361 through November '09 which is actually down from '08...there are the economic conditions to consider.

Ford changed the mix because of more demand for the SEL and SHO versions late in the year.

I see a lot of them on the road and have talked to a couple of new Taurus owners who are very pleased with it.

Yes but where did you find that number? When I search for Taurus sales on google all I get is "Taurus for Sale!" etc.

[Dino Scuderia]

Yes but where did you find that number? When I search for Taurus sales on google all I get is "Taurus for Sale!" etc.

REPORT: Ford altering Taurus model mix to build more SEL, SHO models — Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/22/report-ford-altering-taurus-model-mix-to-build-more-sel-sho-mo/)

[Ferrer]

I wouldn't say Ford's are necessarily highly regarded, they are just currently enjoying a resurgence partly out of respect that they didn't have to take bail-out money and partly because people like the new cars they have.
Well here Fords are regarded, usually, as great driving cars. Their handling is second only to BMW and cars that cost several times more than them. However, this last generation they've gone too big. I'm afraid that if we start getting US-designed Fords they may be even bigger.

[Dino Scuderia]

Well here Fords are regarded, usually, as great driving cars. Their handling is second only to BMW and cars that cost several times more than them. However, this last generation they've gone too big. I'm afraid that if we start getting US-designed Fords they may be even bigger.

Ford recently stated that buyers will trend to smaller cars for an extended period to come....but whether their products match their views remains to be seen.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Well here Fords are regarded, usually, as great driving cars. Their handling is second only to BMW and cars that cost several times more than them. However, this last generation they've gone too big. I'm afraid that if we start getting US-designed Fords they may be even bigger.

I don't know if that's still true or if only something people think about Ford.
The previous Fiesta was fun and all only in the ST trim, or to a less extent with the 1.6 S, but it wasn't better than the competition, let alone better than the Clio. The base model given me the feeling of being in a Polo, just with one more cylinder, which was good tbh.
The Focus mk2 was more interesting considering the standard versions, yet it already lost some of its appeal, and the fact that the ST wasn't so special moved the attention towards...wait, Renault!
When I've read the first review on the present Mondeo, the journalist was keeping on writing about how good the previous version was to drive...weird, as they never drove it in the previous 3 years or so. Quite of long time if that's really among your favorite cars, and considering they never lost one single chance to drive the cars they like, even being a Suzuki Swift.
Eventually, they agreed that the new Mondeo is just too large and "comfortable" to be considered sporty.

The S-Max may be a performing MPV, but it's actually an MPV with hard suspensions and a pointlessly low level of comfort given its mass and category. It's sort of a family-man X6, just I can understand if someone wants a decent ride and also has two kids to bring with him and the lady, while I can't see a reason to have a swollen hotwheels with no trunk, visibility, let alone a reason for that ride height given it will sink in a puddle.
Digressing...

Now, if I had to pick a brand with renowned sporty cars at a decent price it would probably be Renault, but I actually think that when you're about to pick a car from the standard versions, many of them don't have any real characteristics which can really justify its purchase, personal taste excluded that is. Probably buying the Hyundai i30 shouldn't leave much room for a spirited driving, but on the other hand buying the base Megane just because of how good the RS is pointless.
Maybe the Focus mk2 is a good choice, especially considering how cheap it was, but I don't think that's enough to say Ford is a sporty brand, or even one with a good reputation of good building great driving cars.

The way I can have fun with a chunky Stilo, a first gen Yaris is enough for me (not that I don't want "more" from a car, but it's enough to say what I've just said).
Sure, I'd never buy the Stilo 2.4 Abarth or the Yaris TS :rolleyes:.

[Ferrer]

From experience I can only speak about the older Fords. We had a Mk I Focus and a Puma back in the day and both were brilliant. The Puma was exactly like the Mini, only cheaper and less well built, and for a family car our Focus did deliver the goods.

However I can in some parts agree with you. The specifically tuned versions usually have little to do with the bread and butter versions in terms of driving dynamics. But, the basic engineering is still there so the shouldn't drive that differently. On that basis yes, the Focus 1.6 and the Focus RS may drive very differently, but the basics are still there. In that aspect I prefer a car that goves you something else in terms of driving dynamics, everything else being equal. And I'd say that while the difference may have shrunk from a generation ago, Fords are still at the top, at least form Focus and up.

The supersize issue, is definitely a problem though.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The Focus mk1 and Puma were absolutely and excellent everyday car, but back to those days, many other cars were so. Still they were also pretty cheap.
I like the Focus mk2 because it is simple and cheap, therefore it also resembles those older cars in its feelings and dynamics. These on the other hand is just another car from this segment, and with a pretty ugly face too. I don't know if this has something to do specifically with the fact that it wiil be sold States side too, but Ford got it wrong moving away from the simple and inexpensive path of the previous generations from an European point of view.

Right now I could look at the new Astra, Megane, Bravo and Focus and...without the badge I could say they are all the same ca, basically on the inside as well. Ironically this makes the Golf 5.1 look even older, so get this VAG.

[cargirl1990]

Theres another Ford hatch I can't remember. I saw it on Youtube were this cat puts its head in the sunroof and gets decapitated. That commercial pissed me off!!

[cmcpokey]

i think that was a fiesta

edit: correction, Spork Ka

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn8TBAp96Mk

[cargirl1990]

i think that was a fiesta

edit: correction, Spork Ka

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn8TBAp96Mk

Oh right... I hate the fact that I like the way it looks. (the car). And I know THAT was a banned commercial.

[Ferrer]

Then there was the pigeon version. That was funny too.

The Focus mk1 and Puma were absolutely and excellent everyday car, but back to those days, many other cars were so. Still they were also pretty cheap.
I like the Focus mk2 because it is simple and cheap, therefore it also resembles those older cars in its feelings and dynamics. These on the other hand is just another car from this segment, and with a pretty ugly face too. I don't know if this has something to do specifically with the fact that it wiil be sold States side too, but Ford got it wrong moving away from the simple and inexpensive path of the previous generations from an European point of view.

Right now I could look at the new Astra, Megane, Bravo and Focus and...without the badge I could say they are all the same ca, basically on the inside as well. Ironically this makes the Golf 5.1 look even older, so get this VAG.
I see your point regarding the styling. That's especially clear with the Focus which has gone from a daring and different looking family hatchback, I remember whan the Mk I was out and we bought it, it was quite controversial, from unnoticeable blob. It's sad that Ford, which once had the balls to take risks with a very important car in their lineup now have descended into blandness and dullness. The others though have had a different evolution, especially the Astra which used to be Mr.Nobody and now while not especially striking at least you notice it. Bravo and Megane have suffered an beautyfication process and I don't think I can complain too much about that, even if they aren't especially original.

However I was personally refering to the driving dynamics, and while it may not be as a head of the rest of the pack as the Mark I was when it was first launched, the Mark II still is regarded as one of the best, if not the best, driving familiy hatchback currently on sale even considering the base versions. In fact it was the original Focus which made Volkswagen rethink about the strategy with the Golf, since it was so far ahead of the Golf IV that it was almost ridicoulous. Now the Golf, and VAG relatives, have caught on but still there's much to appreciate about the Focus. I can tell because while I like the Delta dynamically it isn't very competent and I can only assume the Bravo is the same and I've read that the Megane is equally unexciting (RS excepted).

So for us, who care about those things the Focus still is at the top end of the scale, or at least near the top.

[LeonOfTheDead]

The standard Bravo aren't that bad it seems, given their market position. Competent maybe not, but it isn't its role either.

[Clivey]

A summary of the European models IMO:

- The Mk1 is interesting (but really ugly in my personal opinion), although they diluted the design somewhat with the facelift.

- The Mk2 is really a boring shape, initially with boring detailing but improved since the facelift.

- The Mk3 is right mixture! Lol


The only good Megane point (RS aside) is cheap power. Other than that I'd rather be in a Leon.

Why specifically the Leon? Is that your personal favourite car from this segment (1'er aside)?

For me, a favourite isn't a straight cut decision. For example; If I were looking for another ~1.6-litre diesel I'd probably go for another C4. However, if I wanted a higher-powered diesel (140 BHP plus), I'd go for a 1-Series and for a <=£20k hot hatch, I'd probably choose the Astra VXR.


The Focus will still drive brilliantly probably.

Hopefully - as IMHO the Mk2 doesn't quite drive as "brilliantly" as some motoring journalists (probably receiving a backhander from Ford) like to pretend. Despite the high grip levels, I found the steering to be quite vague with little feel and quite a lot of play in the first few degrees of turn even when the adjustable system was set to 'Sport'...which doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Also the ride was hard, the gearshift felt like it was from a van and the clutch pedal is in an awkward position.

I'm not saying that it was a bad car to drive, because it wasn't. It just wasn't as good as some seem to think IMO and certainly no better than some of the competition. The only thing that the Mk2 Focus definitely did better than the competition was interior space - and that's because it's a bigger car overall.

[Ferrer]

Why specifically the Leon? Is that your personal favourite car from this segment (1'er aside)?

For me, a favourite isn't a straight cut decision. For example; If I were looking for another ~1.6-litre diesel I'd probably go for another C4. However, if I wanted a higher-powered diesel (140 BHP plus), I'd go for a 1-Series and for a <=£20k hot hatch, I'd probably choose the Astra VXR.
Of course sometimes there are specific models that stand out, depending on your needs, for instance I like the Megane 2.0 Turbo, which despite not being very driver oriented it gives you 180bhp and brilliant seats for 20.000€. But I'm sure that in general you could all name a car in each segment that while not being perfect at everything, more or less fullfills everything we look for in a car. I choose the Leon because it has the good chasis of a Golf with a slitghlty more handling-oriented setup and good engines for quite a lot less than what the Golf costs. For instance the 1.8 TSi is quite a bargain and quite fast and frugal (for petrol standards), which is why I mentioned it, it seems to be a good allrounder for what I look for in a car.

Hopefully - as IMHO the Mk2 doesn't quite drive as "brilliantly" as some motoring journalists (probably receiving a backhander from Ford) like to pretend. Despite the high grip levels, I found the steering to be quite vague with little feel and quite a lot of play in the first few degrees of turn even when the adjustable system was set to 'Sport'...which doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Also the ride was hard, the gearshift felt like it was from a van and the clutch pedal is in an awkward position.

I'm not saying that it was a bad car to drive, because it wasn't. It just wasn't as good as some seem to think IMO and certainly no better than some of the competition. The only thing that the Mk2 Focus definitely did better than the competition was interior space - and that's because it's a bigger car overall.
I haven't got personal experience with the Focus Mk 2, but everything I've read says that it still is at the top, or near the top, of the class dynamically. And either Ford pays more than the others to journalists or there's an element of truth in their words. Still, driving the Delta, it's not that difficult for the Focus to be better than those.

[iwmakemh]

Except that this hatch doesn't look that good so far.
I'd rather buy a new Megane, but then again, you can't have that either.

See if Renault was bothered to make their lineups pass safety and emmisions standards in North America, I would have a much larger list of cars I would consider owning. XD I would love to own a new Twingo haha