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Kitdy
02-27-2010, 01:36 AM
So 2009 comes down to these two, the Ferrari 458 and Nissan 370Z.

Which and why?

Kitdy
02-27-2010, 01:38 AM
The poll closes in 4 days aka March 3 at 3:37 AM EST.

Niko_Fx
02-27-2010, 06:56 AM
I'll throw a slightly biased vote to the 370Z. Why? Well, of course the Ferrari IS the better car, there's no doubt about that, but consider that the 370Z costs only a small fraction of the Ferrari's price and its performance is outstanding. They vastly improved the 350Z by making it lighter, giving it more hp, and improving the interior x 10,000.

I absolutely 100% would rather own / drive a Ferrari 458, but I guess we have to consider the 2 cars for what they are and offer.

370Z = US $30k - $35k
458 = 169,545 + 19,000 current dealer markup.

Performance for the buck?

W.R.
02-27-2010, 07:04 AM
I absolutely 100% would rather own / drive a Ferrari 458, but I guess we have to consider the 2 cars for what they are and offer.

370Z = US $30k - $35k
458 = 169,545 + 19,000 current dealer markup.

Performance for the buck?

But this a car of the year poll, not best value car of the year. Otherwise the Zed would've had another vote from me.

Ferrer
02-27-2010, 07:33 AM
In terms of performance or bang for buck it isn't even that impressive.

Niko_Fx
02-27-2010, 07:46 AM
In terms of performance or bang for buck it isn't even that impressive.

The Ferrari? I know, you're paying about 300.00 for every HP!!! ;)


But this a car of the year poll, not best value car of the year. Otherwise the Zed would've had another vote from me

Wouldn't "car of the year" include pricing? That being the case I'm sure Nissan can take US $300k and build a better car... If price is not even considered when voting then why bother?

RSOWNER
02-27-2010, 07:54 AM
Voted for the Ferrari here, simply because the stylists have finally made a bold move away from the rather bland (everything smooth) look of the last few models.

Ferrer
02-27-2010, 07:55 AM
The Ferrari? I know, you're paying about 300.00 for every HP!!! ;)
Haha true. :p

But we have hot hatches, and those are what get us value for money. They are to us what for you is the Mustang. :)

NicFromLA
02-27-2010, 10:07 AM
I really hate the way the 370Z looks. I think those fishhook kinks in the lights look idiotic and sort of kink in the shoulder near the b-pillar makes the car look like it's been in an accident. The 350Z was so stately and clean looking, what was Nissan thinking?

wwgkd
02-27-2010, 02:41 PM
I took the sucker vote. The Z is probably a better car when you factor in price, but I just couldn't vote for it.

Rockefella
02-27-2010, 03:34 PM
The 458 Italia is impressive, but has it even gone on sale yet?

VOGUE_MAN
02-27-2010, 05:09 PM
I feel the 370Z has a really good engine in a really good car - but the Ferrari is exceptional in every category.

Ferrer
02-27-2010, 06:33 PM
This is again another battle of the classic against the contemporary. The cutting edge against the proven receipe. The traditional approach against modern engineering.

I like the 370Z. Styling aside, in which I agree with Nic, everything where it should be. There's a big normally aspirated engie up in front, a proper manual in the middle and rear wheel drive at the back. It's what we've come to know and love as a sportscar, and I wouldn't mind at all having one. It's curious that the same company makes such different approaches to the performance question. Points for the synchro-rev-o-matic gearbox, which I don't like very much, but I reckon it is quite clever and it takes the good ol' fashioned manual into the 21st century.

And then there's the 458 Italia, which is a technological tour de force. Starting with the engine the specific power and torque outputs are simply unbelievable and it's quite a frugal car if we take into account the performance. Then there's the 7-speed dual clutch flappy paddle gearbox, a first for a mid engined Ferrari, the studied aerodynamics or the attention to detail in the interior. And let's not start with the electronic diff and traction control modes.

So, the Dino takes my vote. But give me a Datsun please.

cargirl1990
02-27-2010, 07:05 PM
" Jingle bells, new Ferrari's smell, Nissan all the way... "

Niko_Fx
02-27-2010, 08:38 PM
Since the Ferrari is like 10 times more expensive, and no one but me factored in the price... 7 (current) votes for the Nissan = 7 x 10 = 70 votes.

370Z wins car of the year award!!!

:p

CapnBoost
02-27-2010, 09:06 PM
If price isn't a consideration for "best car" then why should we consider the badge, performance, exhaust note, sensibility, etc.

Basically, if we eliminate value, why consider anything else?

Ferrer
02-28-2010, 12:51 AM
Since the Ferrari is like 10 times more expensive, and no one but me factored in the price... 7 (current) votes for the Nissan = 7 x 10 = 70 votes.

370Z wins car of the year award!!!

:p


If price isn't a consideration for "best car" then why should we consider the badge, performance, exhaust note, sensibility, etc.

Basically, if we eliminate value, why consider anything else?
Well, let's factor in the price.

I can have the 305bhp Focus RS for 10 grand less than the Nissan.

csl177
02-28-2010, 01:20 AM
Well, let's factor in the price.

I can have the 305bhp Focus RS for 10 grand less than the Nissan.

A good deal of performance for the price, the Focus is even somewhat practical.

Niko_Fx
02-28-2010, 10:01 AM
Well, let's factor in the price.

I can have the 305bhp Focus RS for 10 grand less than the Nissan.

0-60 in 5.9, while the 370Z does it in 4.9 (4.7 according to some mags).
0-100 in 14.2, 370Z in 12.0
Focus FWD, 370Z = RWD.

I didn't search much for lap times, but Top Gear got a better time for the 370Z.

Focus RS = 39,000 euros... not available in the US where a 370Z starts at US 30K or 22k euros!!

Then I searched some more since cars are usually cheaper in the US. 370Z in England costs 26,895 = 30,112.21 euros...

So for the same price in Europe I get to chose between a faster RWD vehicle and a slower FWD vehicle... Let alone the fact that the Focus RS looks like a "hooked up" econobox with extra power, while the cheapest most basic 370Z available is a sports car as it is.

Ferrer
02-28-2010, 10:13 AM
I will grant you that the Focus is at a disadvantage when it comes the layout. But for us here it does basically the same. Both are fast, powerful cars to be enjoyed in twisty mountain roads. As a result I don't care about which is faster than which, but which will give me the biggest thrill. All the reviews I've read about both do say good things, with the Focus' readily available liftoff oversteer compesating for front wheel drive, and also being far more practical than the Nissan. And the Nissan costs almost 43k and the Focus 35k. And there's also the 46k BMW 135i with a great engine a rear wheel drive dynamics.

I'm not trying to argue against the the 370Z, I'm just saying that the value for money argument has to be complemented with geographical arguments, because a broad statement might not be true everywhere.

On the other hand, I still don't know what will the Ferrari cost, but we should look at its rivals price to say if it is good value or not, not only at the list price alone.

Niko_Fx
02-28-2010, 11:00 AM
Maybe the Focus RS and 135i should be on the poll then? Or is there a reason why they are not? Maybe not everyone feels the same as you and actually give the Z a bit more credit. I'll take the 370Z any day over the RS with its "Fast and Furious" look with fake air vents and weird body kits / spoilers. Like I said, "hooked up" Focus.

Practicality? and the Ferrari has any? When did that become part of the equation? The 458 and 370Z are not practical at all... the Focus RS is, but it sacrifices speed and looks to get it.

Many argue about the looks of the 135i, while it is a little monster, most dislike how it looks... me being one of them. I'll take a 335 any day though.


I'm not trying to argue against the the 370Z, I'm just saying that the value for money argument has to be complemented with geographical arguments, because a broad statement might not be true everywhere.

Such as the Focus RS being 10 grand cheaper? ;) 10 grand cheaper where? In what currency? It's not available in the US, so I'll take your statement as a broad statement.

Ferrer
02-28-2010, 03:27 PM
I don't think the RS or the 135i should be on the poll, but neither do I think the 370Z would be a worthy winner. That doesn't mean I don't like it. I do, it's the classic sportscar, and I like classic and I like sportscars.

That's precisely (one of) the point I've been trying to argue since we started voting for the contenders. Those awards shouldn't be voted based on personal preference, but rather on how worthy the car is. That means, a variety of things, such as value for money, performance, practicality, handling and other measurable statistics, but also how much the car itsels represents an evolution or a leap forward.

The 370Z is a 350Z Mk II, whereas the 458 Italia is a completely new models with lots of new and impressive engineering and technology. And that's why I think it should win out of those two, regardless of wheter I like it or not.

wwgkd
02-28-2010, 04:37 PM
If all you wanted to argue was 0-60 for your dollar (very american argument that) then the two best ever (sold in the US, in inflation adjusted dollars) are the Neon SRT-4 and the Cobalt SS Turbo.

But yeah, I agree with ferrer once again.

Niko_Fx
02-28-2010, 06:10 PM
If all you wanted to argue was 0-60 for your dollar (very american argument that) then the two best ever (sold in the US, in inflation adjusted dollars) are the Neon SRT-4 and the Cobalt SS Turbo.

But yeah, I agree with ferrer once again.

It's not the 0-60 time what makes up the car, I know, but I'm sure you'd rather drive a car that does 0-60 in 5s over one that does it in 8s. When the Focus RS was introduced, I just pointed out that it's not as fast... it may have similar hp output, it may weigh the same, it may be cheaper, but it's not as fast and has FWD traction. .. so I figured that needed to be mentioned.

csl177
02-28-2010, 10:21 PM
If it makes you feel any better Niko, based on the aformentioned criteria I voted for the Nissan.

Kitdy
03-06-2010, 09:07 PM
The 458 easily takes the vote for UCP Car of the Year.