The skies of Europe are quiet

[Matra et Alpine]

Well not one plane flying in/out of UK for last 6 hours and nothing will move at all till tomorrow morning.
Our flight to Belfast cancelled.

Getting camera out to see what the Icelandic volcanic ash cloud will do to the sunset :)

No flights above Paris ....... Brussels, Schiphol and CDG all closed along with everything else North
RadarVirtuel.com (http://www.radar-virtuel.com/)
hmmm, intrigued at ONE private flight ... am guessing emergency medical ??

And the reasons why ....

BBC News - Icelandic volcanic ash alert grounds UK flights (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8621407.stm)

An image made available by NEODASS/University of Dundee which shows the volcanic ash plume from Iceland, top left, to the north of Britain as received by NASA's Terra Satellite at 11.39 GMT Thursday April 15, 2010. All flights in and out of the UK and several other European countries have been suspended as ash from a volcanic eruption in Iceland moves south. The UK's air traffic control service (Nats) said no flights would be allowed in UK airspace until at least 0700 BST on Friday amid fears of engine damage. The airspace restriction was the worst in living memory, a spokesman said.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Pretty scary stuff, the sort of things you'd call rubbish if first seen in a movie.

[f6fhellcat13]

Well not one plane flying in/out of UK for last 6 hours and nothing will move at all till tomorrow morning.
Our flight to Belfast cancelled.

Getting camera out to see what the Icelandic volcanic ash cloud will do to the sunset :)

No flights above Paris ....... Brussels, Schiphol and CDG all closed along with everything else North
RadarVirtuel.com (http://www.radar-virtuel.com/)
hmmm, intrigued at ONE private flight ... am guessing emergency medical ??

And the reasons why ....

BBC News - Icelandic volcanic ash alert grounds UK flights (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8621407.stm)

An image made available by NEODASS/University of Dundee which shows the volcanic ash plume from Iceland, top left, to the north of Britain as received by NASA's Terra Satellite at 11.39 GMT Thursday April 15, 2010. All flights in and out of the UK and several other European countries have been suspended as ash from a volcanic eruption in Iceland moves south. The UK's air traffic control service (Nats) said no flights would be allowed in UK airspace until at least 0700 BST on Friday amid fears of engine damage. The airspace restriction was the worst in living memory, a spokesman said.



Definitely do this and please share them!
When we have forest fires and the sky fills with ash it creates some of the best sunsets I've seen and I can only imagine this is similar.

[Dino Scuderia]

Volcanic ash....meh...try dealing with the yellow clouds of pollen here.

[Commodore GS/E]

It reached Germany now. All of the big Airports in northern Germany have closed. Now imagine the volcano just decides that it wants to smoke on. The airports will have to stay closed. Sound rather bad in my opinion.

[NSXType-R]

I heard about this too. Better safe than sorry, that volcanic dust can do some real damage to an engine.

[Fleet 500]

Must be a lot of ash and other material to ground airplanes. A wise move, I think, to be cautious.

[Matra et Alpine]

Well the sunset was VERY disappointing. SO much for listening to the weather guy :)
Just a muchy grey/washed out red. PAH :(

Ther's not a lot of ash, we're 800 miles away, BUT the concern is that the type of fine ash that is sitting above 30,000 ft is likely to clump and form glass in the heat of the engine and possibly clog. So the rules the air industry agreed have been applied.

If it doesn't clear qucikly I expect we will see the air industry modify the rules to allow some/most flights to restart. There is no way that Europe can exist without those planes flying :)

[cargirl1990]

Heard about this on the news. It would be amazing to see an eruption but volcanoes can be quite devestating.:(

[clutch-monkey]

Well the sunset was VERY disappointing. SO much for listening to the weather guy :)
Just a muchy grey/washed out red. PAH :(

Ther's not a lot of ash, we're 800 miles away, BUT the concern is that the type of fine ash that is sitting above 30,000 ft is likely to clump and form glass in the heat of the engine and possibly clog. So the rules the air industry agreed have been applied.

If it doesn't clear qucikly I expect we will see the air industry modify the rules to allow some/most flights to restart. There is no way that Europe can exist without those planes flying :)

heh you should know better by now :p

[csl177]

Volcanic ash....meh...try dealing with the yellow clouds of pollen here.
You do have my sympathy in trying to keep stuff clean... but thankfully pollen won't destroy a jet engine. A flight ban is the safest thing to do, a minor inconvenience compared to engine failure. Weird how something so dangerous can produce the most amazing sunrise/sunsets. After Pinatubo erupted, evening skies were spectacular for a couple of years.

[pimento]

Yea, given that volcanic ash can cause glass to form in the engines.. I think I'll take the pollen.

[Brix]

A danish scientist has studied the volcano and is predicting that it could stay active for up to 2 years! (based on previous activity). (Of Course not in this degree)

[Fleet 500]

Well the sunset was VERY disappointing. SO much for listening to the weather guy :)
Just a muchy grey/washed out red. PAH :(

Don't worry about it. Here are a few sunset photos I have taken over the years...

[Matra et Alpine]

CHeers Fleet :)
Sunrise was equally "boring".

Drop the flight corridors 10-15,000 feet and it will be avoided where it currently is "massing". Again, I'm betting if it hangs around too long things like this will be done.

THe last time this one went up (200 years ago) it ran for 18 months - common knowledge. I wonder how much "expertise" it takes to become a "Danish scientist" and how much you get paid, I fancy a career change :)

THis morning's "footprint" of inactivity.

[Brix]

CHeers Fleet :)
Sunrise was equally "boring".

Drop the flight corridors 10-15,000 feet and it will be avoided where it currently is "massing". Again, I'm betting if it hangs around too long things like this will be done.

THe last time this one went up (200 years ago) it ran for 18 months - common knowledge. I wonder how much "expertise" it takes to become a "Danish scientist" and how much you get paid, I fancy a career change :)

THis morning's "footprint" of inactivity.
Are you mocking danish scientist? :p

[Matra et Alpine]

Are you mocking danish scientist? :p
No, not at all, just the Hans Christian Anderson ones :)
I blame the journalist MUCH more than I do the scientist !!!

[Brix]

No, not at all, just the Hans Christian Anderson ones :)
I blame the journalist MUCH more than I do the scientist !!!
Then it's alright ;).
But im afraid the volcano will be active for long, but not a hazard like now.
A new news article say that the current active volcano might set of a even larger one close to!

[NSXType-R]

Breaking News-

Noise pollution across Europe is at an all time low.

Stay tuned for more details as we learn more from our news correspondent in London.

[Matra et Alpine]

The worry on the volcano seems to be if it buidl s up under the glacier - whre it's now shifted - then likely to have major eruption and worse huge flooding for the locals.

The wind has shifted and some Scottish airports have opened.
BUT weekend suggest the wind will bring the upper atmosphere dust particles back over us :(

We don't get much airplane noise except around the major airports :) So 90% don't care :)

[Rasmus]

I'm pretty much stuck here, and I'm f#cking frustrated. Been in CPH on business for three days and was supposed to fly home today.

I don't expect to be back in the US till sometime Monday at the soonest.

[Matra et Alpine]

Well knowing a typical 3 day business trip, then use the time and get out and see some of the beautiful city and the lovely Danish ladies :) .. oh and the beer :)
Think you'll be lucky if it's Monday, the backlog on flights and planes is MASSIVE :(

At least the company will pay to put you up, think of all the folks getting stung £200 a night for a bed -- jsut because the hotels CAN charge it :(

[cargirl1990]

I'm pretty much stuck here, and I'm f#cking frustrated. Been in CPH on business for three days and was supposed to fly home today.

I don't expect to be back in the US till sometime Monday at the soonest.

Oh wow, I feel really bad for you.:( But I heard on the news that the planes would be back in business this evening or something like that.

[Matra et Alpine]

UK stil shut till tomorrow at earliest and will be reviewd morning.
Expectations seem to be a "few days".

As predicted, in Germany a KLM flight went up - despite worse conditions than UK faced - and they are now inspecting the planes engines. Early reports are positive on "no significant damage/wear". So commercial looks to be winning over theoretical safety :(

The grey overlay is the extent of the ash "cloud" and the darker the denser.

[DesmoRob]

my mom was supposed to fly out to Germany tomorrow to visit the relatives, but that's no longer happening now. She's pretty frustrated too. Waiting patiently for notice of whats happening.

[csl177]

When world air travel stopped for a few days as a result of the WTC disaster, one of the effects was quiet most of us had never experienced. Humans are in such a big hurry... for that very brief time it seemed we thought more about how we travel and why.
This is just an inconvenience in comparison, but surely must have a similar effect for Europeans. Economics drive international
flights but the conditions must have increased continental train travel, yes?

A look at typical flight activity around the globe in a 24 hour period is sobering. America could use a high-speed passenger rail network.
YouTube - Air traffic in 24 hours.wmv (better quality: add &fmt=18 to url!)

[IBrake4Rainbows]

My poor sister.

She is attempting to attend a Wedding in Ireland in about a weeks time - inclusive was a holiday in Edinburgh before hand...well, that was the plan.

She flew Korean Air Syd-Seoul, stayed there overnight, and was en route (in the air) to London when they shut the airspace down. The plane diverted to Frankfurt.

Stuck in Frankfurt and with no real way out to get to the UK, she caught a 20 hour busride to Calais, where she caught the chunnel to London. Following that she is trying to catch a ferry over to Ireland, so she can hopefully make the wedding.

Total time lost - nearly 3 days :(

[csl177]

IB4R, that is a shame... hope she makes at least part of her holiday work, including the wedding. :( I imagine there are thousands caught in the same trap, but that's why I asked: aren't the train systems in Europe able to cope with all the redirected travel? Were there no trains direct from Frankfurt to the UK? British rail to Edinburgh, overnight ferry to Ireland?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

EDIT: that wasn't a fair comment.

There is a direct train to Paris, then Calais, but of course thats the quickest and most popular route - and tickets were as rare as hens teeth.

She'll be there in plenty of time for the wedding, but you have to think that the Public transport system has been designed with flight traffic in mind. And when there are literally millions of people who have to change plans...

[csl177]

There is a direct train to Paris, then Calais, but of course thats the quickest and most popular route - and tickets were as rare as hens teeth.

She'll be there in plenty of time for the wedding, but you have to think that the Public transport system has been designed with flight traffic in mind. And when there are literally millions of people who have to change plans...

Good that she'll have much of her holiday intact, despite the chaos this volcanic event produced. As to transportation systems pressure as a result, exactly so... but if fuel costs rise over the next decade as some project, most of us will travel very differently. Air service is a cheap convenience relative to the huge amounts of fuel used (and all that entails) that millions depend on. It would be nice to imagine humans realizing the actual cost and slow down, but the genie is out of the bottle. My comment about how we travel and why, contemplating a slower life is just wishful thinking. At least until the costs outweigh the convenience. This ash cloud illustrates what we will avoid until then.

[henk4]

EDIT: that wasn't a fair comment.

There is a direct train to Paris, then Calais, but of course thats the quickest and most popular route - and tickets were as rare as hens teeth.

She'll be there in plenty of time for the wedding, but you have to think that the Public transport system has been designed with flight traffic in mind. And when there are literally millions of people who have to change plans...

Actually the high speed trains in Europe are supposed to have the purpose to replace short distances flights to a large extent. And in total travel time many links manage that perfectly, however, if you are coming from abroad, the equation is different, as you are already "in the air" so to say. Transit passengers are now forced to use the land based transport modes too and that is a real strain. There simply are not enough trains to deal with this.

As a side note, John Cleese had to perform in Brussels and got stuck in Oslo. He ended up taking a taxi, costing him 3800 Euro...(he might have been better of buying a second hand car....). He needs the money to pay for his third divorce.

[Matra et Alpine]

France has a fraction of the internal flights ( and airports ) of the other nations thanks to it's well planned and efficient rail network.


.... and then ..... the FRENCH RAIL CONTROLLERS WERE ON STRIKE :(
Back now I believe after the chaos by the airport closures.

Update Saturday, 17 April, 2010,

TGV South-East need to transport 310 000 passengers from the Gare de Lyon. 900 000 visitors expected in Paris train stations.

Nice controllers back to work

[LeonOfTheDead]

I'll take this opportunity to say once again the Italian trains' network suck at best. I take a train (actually two) when mobing from Padova (Padua) to Modena, which is supposd to take about 2 and a half hours. It is not unusual to require 3 hours, I pay almost 10 € for that. Using the motorway with a second passenger costs less.

[pimento]

If I head to the domestic airport, it costs me $15 for the train and about $2.54 for the bus into town. When I take PT to work it's $4 for the train and the same for the bus. And the train leg is about twice as long. When I ride to work it's about 80c for fuel. Or less. I've not been too accurate about it. The normal PT costs I don't mind, but the mark up for the airport line shits me no end. I've long been of the opinion that I'd prefer to pay more tax to eliminate the airport levies and toll roads than to whine about them. Perth is civilised like that...

[Ferrer]

Chaps, just do it the Fangio way. Rent an Aurelia GT and off you go.

On a related note, my boss couldn't get to her four day holiday in Germany because... well does anyone want to guess?

[Wouter Melissen]

On a related note, my boss couldn't get to her four day holiday in Germany because... well does anyone want to guess?

She wrecked her car?

[Ferrer]

In the middle of the airport and the plane couldn't leave... :rolleyes:

[LeonOfTheDead]

My bet on "she had a baby".

[clutch-monkey]

trouble with customs/airport security? i get that a lot too

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Godzilla began attacking Hamburg by Mistake?

[NSXType-R]

France has a fraction of the internal flights ( and airports ) of the other nations thanks to it's well planned and efficient rail network.


.... and then ..... the FRENCH RAIL CONTROLLERS WERE ON STRIKE :(
Back now I believe after the chaos by the airport closures.

Haha, that's the French way!

[Commodore GS/E]

Good news, folks... the first airports over here are open again. There are some regulations ( planes aren't allowed to take off/ land after 19.00), but i expect this to end in the near future.

[wwgkd]

Good news, folks... the first airports over here are open again. There are some regulations ( planes aren't allowed to take off/ land after 19.00), but i expect this to end in the near future.

So maybe the F1 teams can get home afterall?

[Matra et Alpine]

You sure C ?
There's been another major ejection :(
Spectacular footage from above the volcanic crater on MSN Video (http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/spectacular-footage-from-above-the-volcanic-crater/2gg3n75b)
As I'd thought, the airlines are now trying to find a way for the manufacturers to let them fly :)

Latest thicker concentration over UK and heading Europe :(

[Alastor]

As I'd thought, the airlines are now trying to find a way for the manufacturers to let them fly :)

Why do they want to take the risk...obviously they are loosing money, but it seems like an unnecessary risk.

[Fleet 500]

Why do they want to take the risk...obviously they are loosing money, but it seems like an unnecessary risk.
I wonder if people who really have to be travel somewhere are using ships instead? It would take a lot longer than an airplane but they would get to their destination eventually rather than just waiting for the airline companies to get the okay for their planes to fly again.

[Ferrer]

Not only ships, but trains and cars as well. I know of a friend that had to be in Milan today and just tok his car and drove there.

[Alastor]

It just make me wonder who really has to travel and why. I mean if the odds of a plane crash were normally 1 in a 1,000,000 and now volcanic ash made it a 1,000 times more dangerous would people still fly if the plane manufactures gave the “ok”?

I mean the odds would still be 1 in a 1,000 so the plane is still more likely to make it safely than not. Would people still fly or would only the people who had to travel fly? And what would make it worth the risk…work, vacation, tickets already purchased, etc?

Or if the manufactures say it is ok do people just assume it is as safe as always.

[Brix]

It just make me wonder who really has to travel and why. I mean if the odds of a plane crash were normally 1 in a 1,000,000 and now volcanic ash made it a 1,000 times more dangerous would people still fly if the plane manufactures gave the “ok”?

I mean the odds would still be 1 in a 1,000 so the plane is still more likely to make it safely than not. Would people still fly or would only the people who had to travel fly? And what would make it worth the risk…work, vacation, tickets already purchased, etc?

Or if the manufactures say it is ok do people just assume it is as safe as always.
You can't put it up like that.
If a plane fly into a "cloud" of ash, the risk of the engine clocking up is HUGE, so therefor very dangerous.
What you do is putting 2 figure of speech up against each other.

[Commodore GS/E]

Yep, i was right... flights are now allowed all over middle and southern europe, only the north has still closed airports. There are still no night flights allowed since a jet was damaged during a test flight (i dunno where exactly it happened). Hopefully everybody will get home now... but just as a warning: scientists have already found out that the volcano won't stop spitting out ash in the near future (speaking of the next week). Anybody who HAS TO travel should go by car, train or ship, everything else is pretty unsafe at the moment.

[Matra et Alpine]

British Navy ships are on their way to Calais ports and down to Spain.
Problem is PASSPORT and border control when these alternative routes are attempted.
Enterprising Norwegian hired an old ferry which used to sail to Newcastle and put it back on the route :)

Issue for cost in Europe is that UNDER ALL REASONS the airline is responsible for the passenger if they cannot get them home. So there are hundreds of thousands of people booked on European airlines stuck and having to be fed, watered and put up till it clears. This amounts to millions per day and NO INCOME from any flights.

Interesting radio commentary today that in the US they WARN of risk and leave it to the airline to decide. Here our national flight safety/control bodies determine if "safe" or not and as guideline take the plane manufacturers rules. WHICH not unsurprisingly says "do not fly with volcanic ash". I'd rather have a non-profit organisation making the decisions :)

Test flight in an instrumented plane in the UK this afternoon reported layers of ash at different heights, though clear above 30,000. So "safe" once you get up there .... jsut a little risky getting up and down !!!

www.nats.co.uk[/url] - Statement on Icelandic volcanic eruption: Monday April 19, 2200"]
Since our last statement at 1530 today, the volcano eruption in Iceland has strengthened and a new ash cloud is spreading south and east towards the UK. This demonstrates the dynamic and rapidly changing conditions in which we are working.

Latest information from the Met Office shows that the situation is worsening in some areas. Based on this information, the situation for Northern Irish airports for the morning is uncertain, due to the new ash cloud. The latest information shows that Scottish airports should be available from 0700 and more airspace over England may become available from 1300 although not as far south as the main London airports.

We will continue to monitor Met Office information and the situation is likely to change overnight. We will make a further statement at approximately 0300 (local time), tomorrow, Tuesday 20 April and again at 0900 (local time).

NATS is maintaining close dialogue with the Met Office and with the UK's safety regulator, the CAA, in respect of the international civil aviation policy we follow in applying restrictions to use of airspace.

We are working closely with Government, airports and airlines, and airframe and aero engine manufacturers to get a better understanding of the effects of the ash cloud and to seek solutions.

[kingofthering]

Anybody who HAS TO travel should go by car, train or ship, everything else is pretty unsafe at the moment.

So it's like living in the early 20th century, then?:p

[pimento]

So it's like living in the early 20th century, then?:p

Retro is still 'in', right?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

It's very good that Airlines are requried to get their passengers to the destination regardless of their ability to do so - that's some good legislation right there.

And to those who think it's fairly safe to travel through a volcanic ash storm, may I recommend....

not doing so?

[jediali]

Just out of curiosity: Many airports opened again today apparently from 7AM across northern europe. My office overlooks Aberdeen airport & I have seen no planes or helicopters (lots usually) yet.

[pimento]

It's very good that Airlines are requried to get their passengers to the destination regardless of their ability to do so - that's some good legislation right there.

And to those who think it's fairly safe to travel through a volcanic ash storm, may I recommend....

not doing so? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9)

I love how the quotes from the crew in that article can be perfectly stated in a stereotypically understated plucky brit officer type accent. If you know what I mean.

[Alastor]

You can't put it up like that.
If a plane fly into a "cloud" of ash, the risk of the engine clocking up is HUGE, so therefor very dangerous.
What you do is putting 2 figure of speech up against each other.

I am not sure what you mean by two figures of speech.

Also, it is not just loss of thrust that is an issue (although I agree can be a big one). The ash can accelerate wear/damage on the engine causing it to fail sooner than expected (i.e. before a regular maintenance interval), or so I have read.

As well there are numerous other concerns about the ash as written about last week by AviationDaily:



Volcanic ash poses serious aviation safety risks in flight and on the ground; the particles can
permeate all but the most highly sealed enclosures, leading to engine flameouts at altitude, or render vital aircraft systems inoperable.

Ash is a mix of fragments of volcanic glass and minerals (fieldspar, quartz and pyroxene), ranging in size from a fine powder to one-eighth of an inch. The hard particles can easily scratch and abrade glass, plastic and metals. It is abrasive, mildly corrosive and conductive, especially when wet, and may carry a high static charge for up to two days after being discharged from the volcano, according to Flight Safety Foundation and International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) guidance.

In flight, ingestion of ash by jet engines can seriously degrade powerplant performance or, if entering hot sections of the engines, including fuel nozzles, combustor and turbine, lead to flameout and immediate loss of engine thrust. It also can block the pitot-static system, which
would result in erroneous airspeed indications.

The volcanic particles on a runway surface can be ingested into engines during taxi, takeoff and landing — and, especially at full-power takeoffs, can cause as much damage as in flight. Runways contaminated with ash, particularly
wet ash, can affect aircraft braking ability.

The particles can easily enter small openings of the aircraft exterior and get into flight instrumentation. Forward- facing surfaces of aircraft — windows, landing light covers, leading edges of wings and fuselage — are susceptible to damage, as are landing gear assemblies and brakes. Volcanic ash is difficult to remove from aircraft electronic components, where it can cause arcing and short circuits. Ash can work itself into airport facilities and equipment, such as in ATC towers, and its removal from airport surfaces and hangars is difficult, costly and timeconsuming.

In recognition of the dangers, the worldwide aviation community forged contingency plans for air traffic controllers and pilots to mitigate the risks of encounters with volcanic ash. ICAO’s volcanic ash contingency plan (EUR Doc 019), and Eurocontrol guidance may be found at skybrary.com (Volcanic Ash). For Air Line Pilots Association written guidance to pilots and a 33-minute video, “Boeing Volcanic Ash Avoidance Flight Crew Briefing,” go to alpa.org/Portals/Alpa/VolcanicAsh/VolcanicAsh.htm

It is too soon to forecast what damage or safety incidents may result from the April 15, 2010, volcanic cloud moving across Northwest Europe from Iceland. A U.S. Geological Survey report on the effect of volcanic ash at airports notes previous eruptions that resulted in significant aircraft/airport damages or have had serious effect on operations:
• May 18, 1980: Eruption of Mount St. Helens shut down airports in Washington State area, including Spokane (3 days), Yakima (7 days), Pullman (7 days) and Grant County (15 days).
• December 1989-April 1990: Redoubt volcanic eruption widely affected commercial and military operations near Anchorage, Alaska. Flights were rerouted or canceled, and volcanic ash resulted in damage to five transport aircraft. The most serious involved a new Boeing 747-400; damage to its engines, avionics and exterior resulted in more than $80 million in repair costs.
• June 1991: Mount Pinatubo, Philippines. Closed civilian and military airports. Twenty commercial jet aircraft were damaged in flight; ash ingestion required replacement
of 10 engines. Coarse, sand-sized wet ash and ground shaking led to collapse of several airport facilities.
• June 1982: Eruption of Galunggung volcano, Java, Indonesia. Two Boeing 747-200s encountered ash cloud at night, which resulted in flameout of all four engines on each aircraft.

[Matra et Alpine]

re "damage" ... ever seen a sand blasted piece of ALLOY ?
Steel holds up pretty well, alloy gets torn apart.
THAT is what the potential of volvanic ash in an engine - ingested at 500 mph and hitting blades spinning at 15,000 rpm and a tip speed exceeds speed of sound !

THEN you have to consider the glass content of the ash.
If high, then a jet engine is an ideal place to turn it back to molten state and let it stick/coat everything in sight.

[csl177]

+1 Matra... can't imagine any pilot willing to fly into that stuff.
A pro photographer friend sent me this link of pics from Iceland.
These are beautiful images, but all show the dangers of the event.

More from Eyjafjallajokull - The Big Picture - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/04/more_from_eyjafjallajokull.html)

[cargirl1990]

+1 Matra... can't imagine any pilot willing to fly into that stuff.
A pro photographer friend sent me this link of pics from Iceland.
These are beautiful images, but all show the dangers of the event.

More from Eyjafjallajokull - The Big Picture - Boston.com (http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/04/more_from_eyjafjallajokull.html)

Those are magnificent pictures!!! I love the way the lightning was shot but to be honest, it scared me! :)

[Brix]

I am not sure what you mean by two figures of speech.

Also, it is not just loss of thrust that is an issue (although I agree can be a big one). The ash can accelerate wear/damage on the engine causing it to fail sooner than expected (i.e. before a regular maintenance interval), or so I have read.

As well there are numerous other concerns about the ash as written about last week by AviationDaily:
The numbers you put up earlier is just figure of speech, not real statistics, therefore they can not be put up in a way as you do.

[Commodore GS/E]

Another update, guys. All german airports are now open, even the night flight restrictions have gone. But i don't expect this to hold on that long as the next ash cloud is already coming. So if you need to fly somewhere, do it NOW.

[Matra et Alpine]

^^^ UNLESS you're hoping to be able to fly BACK from that "somewhere" :) :)

Spectacular footage from above the volcanic crater on MSN Video (http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/spectacular-footage-from-above-the-volcanic-crater/2gg3n75b)

See lightning and also the rock ejections from the ash cloud - spectacular.

I loved the "the pilot is confident" while the reporter is clearly bricking it :) :)

Radar track added ... Getting busier :(

[NSXType-R]

^^^ UNLESS you're hoping to be able to fly BACK from that "somewhere" :) :)

Spectacular footage from above the volcanic crater on MSN Video (http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/spectacular-footage-from-above-the-volcanic-crater/2gg3n75b)

See lightning and also the rock ejections from the ash cloud - spectacular.

I loved the "the pilot is confident" while the reporter is clearly bricking it :) :)

Radar track added ... Getting busier :(

Isn't the helicopter turbine powered?

How's it still flying? Or was this the beginning of the eruptions?

[Matra et Alpine]

The reporter was confirming with the pilot that as they were staying NORTH of the volcano then the wind was keeping them "safe". Ironically Iceland's airport has stayed open as it's North of the volcano :)

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Well my sister made it to her destination - only took her 4 days longer than she thought :(

Problem is now the Groom's Family is still stuck in Australia waiting to take off - QANTAS is still not flying to europe to ease the backlog they have for existing customers....

[Matra et Alpine]

Mate stuck in Malta till 4th MAY :)

[Brix]

The reporter was confirming with the pilot that as they were staying NORTH of the volcano then the wind was keeping them "safe". Ironically Iceland's airport has stayed open as it's North of the volcano :)
It's "annoying" that so little of Island is effected by this eruption, and Europe just get all the shit! ;) (meant sarcastic)

[Matra et Alpine]

As has been suggested , they're getting their own back on the British and Dutch for trying to get the money back from failed banks.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

There was a beautiful quote I nicked from somewhere;

"It was the last wish of the Icelandic economy that its ashes be spread over Europe"

[Tati25]

^^^ UNLESS you're hoping to be able to fly BACK from that "somewhere" :) :)

Spectacular footage from above the volcanic crater on MSN Video (http://video.uk.msn.com/watch/video/spectacular-footage-from-above-the-volcanic-crater/2gg3n75b)

See lightning and also the rock ejections from the ash cloud - spectacular.

I loved the "the pilot is confident" while the reporter is clearly bricking it :) :)

Radar track added ... Getting busier :(

Wow.. amazing stuff

Most people got/will go home by airplane today. Poor people that rented cars yesterday for thousands of km trips.

[Alastor]

The numbers you put up earlier is just figure of speech, not real statistics, therefore they can not be put up in a way as you do.

Yes...they were just figure of speech to make a point, I don't see a problem with that. Feel free to substitute the numbers with real statistics, I don't have that information, the point I was trying to make is the same.

[Brix]

Yes...they were just figure of speech to make a point, I don't see a problem with that. Feel free to substitute the numbers with real statistics, I don't have that information, the point I was trying to make is the same.
Real numbers or not, it's the fact you put two figures of speech up against each other, which is wrong.
Just because volcanic ash makes it 1000 times more dangerous doesn't mean that it's "only" 1 out of 1000 of crashing! (using our "maths"), it's more likely that a plane flying thru the ash has a 1/1000 chance of NOT crashing!

[csl177]

There was a beautiful quote I nicked from somewhere;

"It was the last wish of the Icelandic economy that its ashes be spread over Europe"

Dear United Kingdom and European Union:

In response to your recent demands that we send cash immediately, please note the Icelandic Alphabet does not contain the letter "C". We have complied with your request as best as our language allows. It was not easy, but we have done all we can to conjure up a volcano at will to spew tons of ash. Please consider our debt paid in full.

Respectfully yours,
Iceland

:D

[Matra et Alpine]

I like the one going around here that the UK were fed up and intended to send a note demanding immediate CASH , but a typo occurred in the e-mail.

[Brix]

I like the one going around here that the UK were fed up and intended to send a note demanding immediate CASH , but a typo occurred in the e-mail.
That's going to be a classic :p

[Cotterik]

im not too bothered about all this ash cloud. im pretty sure its john locke escaped from the island anyway.

the only way it effects me is that liverpool have had to make an epic journey involving all kinds of transport to get to madrid for the UEFA cup game tomorrow. and if it affects their performance. i'll be raging.

[Alastor]

Real numbers or not, it's the fact you put two figures of speech up against each other, which is wrong.
Just because volcanic ash makes it 1000 times more dangerous doesn't mean that it's "only" 1 out of 1000 of crashing! (using our "maths"), it's more likely that a plane flying thru the ash has a 1/1000 chance of NOT crashing!

I see where you are coming from now.

But I don't follow how a 1000 times more dangerous equates to a the chances of NOT crashing of 1/1000.

Originally I said the chances of a crash where 1:1,000,000. So if it 1000 times more dangerous don't you just multiply the 1 by a 1000. Then you get in 1000:1,000,000 = 1:1,000 of a crash.

Is the math wrong, or is it just the terminology "1000 times more dangerous" that causes the disconnect?

[Brix]

I see where you are coming from now.

But I don't follow how a 1000 times more dangerous equates to a the chances of NOT crashing of 1/1000.

Originally I said the chances of a crash where 1:1,000,000. So if it 1000 times more dangerous don't you just multiply the 1 by a 1000. Then you get in 1000:1,000,000 = 1:1,000 of a crash.

Is the math wrong, or is it just the terminology "1000 times more dangerous" that causes the disconnect?
Well, it don't equate to 1/1000 of NOT crashing, i just stated that to clarify that it's very dangerous to hit such a cloud.

The math is right, 1,000,000 / 1000 = 1000, that is correct. But firstly the figure of speech "1000 times more dangerous" is just a way of telling its VERY dangerous - It's sound "good" when said in the media - therefor it cant be used for calculating statistics.
Secondly you can't take 2 risk factors and divide them up in each other as there will be some formalities that will clash (ex that the original risk factor has the ash calculated in it (which is not the case)).

[Matra et Alpine]

Looks like that's London back to "normal".
Edinburgh still quite quiet. I'm guessing because the airline are diverting their planes to clear the larger/busier hubs

[jediali]

Loving radar virtuel. Lulz though at my crappy work IE6 which struggles with anything bigger than a gif and chooses to virus scan pages at the most inopertune moments.

[Brix]

Loving radar virtuel. Lulz though at my crappy work IE6 which struggles with anything bigger than a gif and chooses to virus scan pages at the most inopertune moments.
Some need to switch to mac ;) (not trying to de-rail the thread :))

[jediali]

Some need to switch to mac ;) (not trying to de-rail the thread :))

haha. chrome at home on vista does fine, just work PC is slow. Nothing personal against macs though.

Another quiet day at Aberdeen airport. Makes commuting past the airport a dream with all that airport traffic gone. As an aside I had to laugh at the taxi rank mutterings as all the airport taxis have been in to city centre stealing business with no air travellers.

[Matra et Alpine]

BBC News - RAF Typhoon training halted as ash found in engine (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8637978.stm)


The CAA also says conclusions should not be drawn from the RAF's statement about the air-worthiness of civilian aircraft.
My cynical side says, AGREED..... the RAF dont have shareholders worrying about profit first :)

[Commodore GS/E]

*totally shocked*
"The ash cloud returns!!!!!"
*ohnoes*
"The airport of Reykjavik has been closed...again!!!"
*mass panic*

[pimento]

I didn't think Reykjavik airport had to be closed because all the ash was to the south..? Or did they close it anyway?

[IBrake4Rainbows]

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=333012&stc=1&d=1272168519

This is for you, sister!