Return of Lancia Stratos?

[Ecnelis]

One of the most legendary cars from the rich pages of automotive history is al set to be reborn, as a prototype, that closely mirrors a modern day reinterpretation of the fearsome Lancia Stratos, has been caught testing in secret at Fiat's Balocco test track.

italiaspeed.com (http://www.italiaspeed.com/2010/cars/lancia/07/stratos/0308.html)

:D

[Brix]

SWEET!
That car looks goood!
I wonder if it will feature a Ferrari engine like the original?

[csl177]

A remarkable design that even after 40 years couldn't be improved upon. Hope it gets built!

[aiasib]

Cool, but why does that look like a screenshot from forza or some other videogame?

[Brix]

Cool, but why does that look like a screenshot from forza or some other videogame?
If it's a spy shot, then it's likely that the photographer hasn't had the best settings for great shots. :)

[aiasib]

If it's a spy shot, then it's likely that the photographer hasn't had the best settings for great shots. :)

Actually, I think I know why now: These are photos of photos, which is why they appear bright in the middle and dark in the corners. The EXIF data shows that these were taken by a BlackBerry device; some guy probably used his Blackberry to sneakily snap some pictures of some spy shot hard copies that were laying around.

Now if only more people would leave spy shots laying around...

[blingbling]

italian cars are funny

[Ferrer]

In my opinion it's a preposterous idea.

[LeonOfTheDead]

A few additional info:

- Copyright for the "Stratos" name is owned by Phenomenon Ltd, no relationship to Fiat
- that design is quite like the concept Phenomenon showcased in Geneva a few years ago (2005?)
- Balocco is Fiat's own proving ground, rarely rented to other automakers and not for testing but only for PR events (think of the Bertone Mantide's unveiling)
- the whole area isn't visible from the outside because of the high speed track, except for a small portion which is used for the aforementioned activities. Judging by those shots, it could be that part of the track, or even a photoshop.

Personally I'm skeptical.

[aiasib]

Is it just me or are there no side-view mirrors?

[NicFromLA]

A few additional info:

- Copyright for the "Stratos" name is owned by Phenomenon Ltd, no relationship to Fiat
- that design is quite like the concept Phenomenon showcased in Geneva a few years ago (2005?)
- Balocco is Fiat's own proving ground, rarely rented to other automakers and not for testing but only for PR events (think of the Bertone Mantide's unveiling)
- the whole area isn't visible from the outside because of the high speed track, except for a small portion which is used for the aforementioned activities. Judging by those shots, it could be that part of the track, or even a photoshop.

Personally I'm skeptical.

I've been hearing rumors about a new Stratos based around the design and engineering from the Phenomenon show car for the last few years. I thought the project was dead, but this looks pretty real to me.

[Ferrer]

A few additional info:

- Copyright for the "Stratos" name is owned by Phenomenon Ltd, no relationship to Fiat
- that design is quite like the concept Phenomenon showcased in Geneva a few years ago (2005?)
- Balocco is Fiat's own proving ground, rarely rented to other automakers and not for testing but only for PR events (think of the Bertone Mantide's unveiling)
- the whole area isn't visible from the outside because of the high speed track, except for a small portion which is used for the aforementioned activities. Judging by those shots, it could be that part of the track, or even a photoshop.

Personally I'm skeptical.
If it's real, it looks a bit like a production version of the Phenomenon, with conventional doors and windscreen.

They said back then that they planned a production version based on 360 Stradale mechanicals.

Meanwhile, Ferrari is already two generations ahead...

[LeonOfTheDead]

Still it would surprise me if they were allowed to use Balocco for test purposes.

[Ferrer]

Maybe, just maybe, Phenomenon and Fiat have teamed up to make a new Lancia Stratos?

I still think it's a stupid idea, in any case.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Just found it's "Fenomenon".
Anyway, their website isn't updated since 2006.

If it really is a privately funded one-off project, it could be real, but those are definitely not spy shots (unless someone made spy shots of some pictures he stumbled upon).

[Clivey]

It does just look like a 'shopped Fenomenon concept...

...here are some pics that I took at the British Motorshow in 2006:

[LeonOfTheDead]

It appears this one-off was commissioned by an European entrepreneur to Pininfarina, but it is not clear if Fenomenon was actually involved, if not for the use of the "Stratos" name.
The car should be based on a Ferrari 430 Scuderia.

With Pininfarina involved, it isn't that unlikely that the car was actually tested at Balocco.

[Brix]

To bad!
Would be nice to see the Stratos back :)

[Clivey]

Maybe, just maybe, Phenomenon and Fiat have teamed up to make a new Lancia Stratos?

I still think it's a stupid idea, in any case.

Why? A sports car that's actually capable of dealing with roads that aren't as smooth as glass...isn't that what we need?

[LeonOfTheDead]

Why? A sports car that's actually capable of dealing with roads that aren't as smooth as glass...isn't that what we need?

Except the original Startos wasn't capable of dealing with roads as smooth as glass without trying to kill you :D

[Ferrer]

Well, if you are referring to tarmac roads there are plenty of cars that can deal with them, if you don't go all berserk with the options. If you refer to dirt roads, well it's probably better to buy a proper off-raoder like a Bowler.

But apart from anything, this money could be better spent elsewhere at Lancia. Not with a mid engined sportscar that bears no resemblance to any other Lancia product, or current FGA product for that matter.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Well, if you are referring to tarmac roads there are plenty of cars that can deal with them, if you don't go all berserk with the options. If you refer to dirt roads, well it's probably better to buy a proper off-raoder like a Bowler.

But apart from anything, this money could be better spent elsewhere at Lancia. Not with a mid engined sportscar that bears no resemblance to any other Lancia product, or current FGA product for that matter.

Again, if this is real, it has nothing to do with Lancia, FGA or any "bigger picture". Just a gearhead, a spare Scuderia, and a lot of money.
Presently I'm at step 1.

[Ferrer]

The thing is, I still think it won't do any good to Lancia. And it looks like the prototype is bearing current Lancia badges.

Just give us the Fulvia, dammit!

[LeonOfTheDead]

If I was Lancia, I wouldn't see a reason not to concede using the badges. It may not be useful for the company, but I can't see why it hurting either.
Plus it's free ad, even if it's a form of advertising I won't take advantage of.

[f6fhellcat13]

Lancia needs to put its money into a design department not run by blind people. As a marque, Lancia has made a decent number of good-looking cars and those have all died and been replace by some a bunch of Ssanyong-grilled Lovecraftian horrors. (Sorry, Ferrer :))

I wouldn't mind a new Fulvia in the least, though.

EDIT: As to this thing, good for whomever made it, but I'll pass. Like the Ford GT, it manages to look like its predecessor from a distance, but all of the subtle of details and proportions seems to have been lost.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Talking about the Ford GT, I wasn't oh so impressed the first time I saw it, and I thought I was going to be. Shame.

[Commodore GS/E]

Or to say it right out: give us a new rwd Lancia Coupe. I don't care what it's called, but really, i miss the old Lancias.
However, if they actually build a new Stratos, they should take care that it doesn't end up as a fat luxury barge filled with loads of options (like most of todays Lancias). Lancia needs a new halo car, or people will simply forget about them (which would be sad).

[Kitdy]

Just give us the Fulvia, dammit!

It'd only be a disappointment.

Leave dead names in the past.

[Clivey]

Except the original Startos wasn't capable of dealing with roads as smooth as glass without trying to kill you :D

Touché. Lol!:D


Well, if you are referring to tarmac roads there are plenty of cars that can deal with them, if you don't go all berserk with the options. If you refer to dirt roads, well it's probably better to buy a proper off-raoder like a Bowler.

But apart from anything, this money could be better spent elsewhere at Lancia. Not with a mid engined sportscar that bears no resemblance to any other Lancia product, or current FGA product for that matter.

According to what I heard at the Motorshow back in 2006, the "point" of this car was supposed to be that buyers in countries with poorly surfaced roads could enjoy a sports car without having to worry about the ground clearance issues etc. etc. they'd have with some of the competition.

Due to the abysmal state of some of the roads local to me, I strongly suspect that a "normal" car like a Golf GTI would be faster than some of the "proper" sports cars due to the fact that it could maintain composure over the potholes, ridges, broken patches in the road surface etc. On the way to the TVR Car Club's annual gathering last year, I managed to stay with a Chimaera 450 purely because he couldn't drive any faster over the bumpy roads without damaging his car.

On British country roads, an Evo FQ400 is faster then an F430 Scuderia most of the time.;)

[pimento]

There's always the right vehicle for the right road.. hell, my postie bike is the fastest thing on wheels in heavy traffic...

[Clivey]

There's always the right vehicle for the right road.. hell, my postie bike is the fastest thing on wheels in heavy traffic...

Precisely. And so this concept is intended to be an all-road sports car, rather than a garage/trailer queen that only sees the light of sunny days.

[LeonOfTheDead]

latest news wants this car penned by Jason Castriota while it was at Bertone, based on some drawings he did while he was at Pininfarina.
Regardless, car may be produced in more than one car by Bertone.

If that the case I think it would be like with the Mantide, meaning it could be produced in more than one unit if more than one car is commissioned.
Initial production for the Mantide was up to 6, then up to 10 cars, but as far as I know only two were made.

Source: italiaspeed.com (http://www.italiaspeed.com/2010/cars/lancia/08/stratos/0908.html)
Rumormill: Lancia Stratos revival won't be one-off, production planned Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/10/rumormill-lancia-stratos-revival-wont-be-one-off-production-p/)

[Ferrer]

I'm still not holding my breath...

[Commodore GS/E]

I'm still not holding my breath...

good idea because you would be dead when this finally arrives.

[McReis]

The thing is, I still think it won't do any good to Lancia. And it looks like the prototype is bearing current Lancia badges.

Just give us the Fulvia, dammit!
If they are to give us back the Fulvia like they gave us back the Delta, they better stay still.

[Brix]

If they are to give us back the Fulvia like they gave us back the Delta, they better stay still.
The Delta is/was a HUGE disappointment.
Still getting sad every time i see it.

[Ferrer]

If they are to give us back the Fulvia like they gave us back the Delta, they better stay still.
The problem with the Delta is the HF Integrale. I will elaborate further tomorrow.

But a Fulvia as the 2003 concept? Count me in.

[McReis]

The problem with the Delta is the HF Integrale. I will elaborate further tomorrow.
You are right. The Turbo and the Integrale are the ones that make people nostalgic about the Delta because, in fact, it was a rather lousy car. No one misses, for example, a 1.6 GT. I honestly believe that today's Delta is a better car for it's time than the original ever was. The problem is with people associating the name Delta to a flame spitting menacing looking beast.
To be honest, I was fortunate to have driven several Integrales and never fell inlove with them. The driving position, the horrible gearbox and the flexible chassis are a huge disapointment.

[Ferrer]

You are right. The Turbo and the Integrale are the ones that make people nostalgic about the Delta because, in fact, it was a rather lousy car. No one misses, for example, a 1.6 GT. I honestly believe that today's Delta is a better car for it's time than the original ever was. The problem is with people associating the name Delta to a flame spitting menacing looking beast.
To be honest, I was fortunate to have driven several Integrales and never fell inlove with them. The driving position, the horrible gearbox and the flexible chassis are a huge disapointment.
Indeed you are right. I was personally against of calling the Mk3 a Delta, because even if it was totally line with the original car, and even the Mk2, a poshed up mid-size Fiat, the car everyone remembers is the car that won 6 World Rally Championships in a row. No one really care about the 1.6 GT, let alone the 1.3 base model.

Lancia has had a bit personality crisis ever since Fiat bought Alfa Romeo back in 1986. What does it really want to be? A posh Fiat? A luxury Alfa Romeo? A cheaper, slower Maserati? A sports saloon with a Ferrari V8? Or maybe dirt covered, flame spitting rally car? Or, perhaps none of the above.

The fact of the matter is though, that despite everything Lancia is far more profitable than Alfa Romeo (I know, it is an oxymoron) and sells as many cars with much reduced line up. It is completely unloved yet it soldiers on.

The Top Gear piece, sums up Lancia rather well. The greatest car maker in the world.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I drove the original Delta 1.3. A brick on wheels.
The mk2 was a much better car, quite similar to the present one, just less "crossoverish".

[pimento]

This just got a bit more real (http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/14/modern-day-lancia-stratos-gets-real-w-video/). I like it.. there's a shot there next to an original Stratos, you can see that it's pretty much the same size as the original, which is nice.

[Brix]

But we do need some sort of confirmation from Lancia/FIAT that it's them who are in the development, and not someone else.

[LeonOfTheDead]

But we do need some sort of confirmation from Lancia/FIAT that it's them who are in the development, and not someone else.

it isn't them at all. It was Michael Stoschek (German entrepreneur) who commissioned this car to Pininfarina.

[Brix]

it isn't them at all. It was Michael Stoschek (German entrepreneur) who commissioned this car to Pininfarina.
Well, without a proper factory backing, then I'm afraid this car wont reach a proper "level"

[LeonOfTheDead]

Well, without a proper factory backing, then I'm afraid this car wont reach a proper "level"

It isn't even sure if it will be produced in more than just one unit, so no need of factory backing. If that's what the deal with the commissioner allows, they will produce a certain number of cars if a certain numbers of buyers show up, otherwise it will be just a one-off.

[Ferrer]

Will it actually carry a Lancia badge?

[LeonOfTheDead]

Will it actually carry a Lancia badge?

It apparently already does, judging by those shots.

[NSXType-R]

It needs more pop up headlights!

And I never knew the original roadgoing Stratos was a semi-off road car. Chances are you probably wouldn't bring it off road, it would strand you in the middle of nowhere. :D

[Ferrer]

IAnd I never knew the original roadgoing Stratos was a semi-off road car.
That's because it wasn't.

[Commodore GS/E]

Sorry to disappoint you guys... but the Lancia seems to be a one-off ordered by a german who thought the Fenomenon concept looked too modern and wanted something more traditional looking. At least that's what i heard.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Sorry to disappoint you guys... but the Lancia seems to be a one-off ordered by a german who thought the Fenomenon concept looked too modern and wanted something more traditional looking. At least that's what i heard.


it isn't them at all. It was Michael Stoschek (German entrepreneur) who commissioned this car to Pininfarina.

:D...

[Commodore GS/E]

oh...ähm...lol :D

[Matra et Alpine]

That's because it wasn't.
WELL, it was kind of a.
It was a rally homologation special.
Rallying back then had REAL forest stages and rough roads and so it was built for "off road", but not for things like Baja :)

Famously exluded from RAC for having "no rear lights" after the bodywork got ripped off. Lancia added ANOTHER set of lights on the chassis as being so short wheelbase it spent lots of time in the forests sideways and using the bushes to keep it on track. Most times then losing the very flimsy rear bodywork.

Saw Waldegard in the 75 RAC and as the body lifted up you could see all the paddock lights shining THROUGH the fibreglass it was so thin.

[Brix]

http://www.new-stratos.com/
A website have now been launched.
Apparently the new Stratos will be based on the Ferrari F430 Scuderia.

[Matra et Alpine]

but .... but ..... BUT .... then engine is THE WRONG WAY ROUND :(
and in the wrong place and the wrong number of cylinders.

It's an even worse "copy" than the BMW Mini :(
Stick with Hawk HF3000 and Alfa V6s ......
( Despite what the a-holes at TG made-up, did and said )

[NSXType-R]

That's because it wasn't.

I thought so.


Sorry to disappoint you guys... but the Lancia seems to be a one-off ordered by a german who thought the Fenomenon concept looked too modern and wanted something more traditional looking. At least that's what i heard.

Supposedly, it's based on the F430. It'd be sort of the Mantide, an expensive limited build collector car.


but .... but ..... BUT .... then engine is THE WRONG WAY ROUND :(
and in the wrong place and the wrong number of cylinders.

It's an even worse "copy" than the BMW Mini :(
Stick with Hawk HF3000 and Alfa V6s ......
( Despite what the a-holes at TG made-up, did and said )

What, it was reversed on the original Stratos?

[Ferrer]

WELL, it was kind of a.
It was a rally homologation special.
Rallying back then had REAL forest stages and rough roads and so it was built for "off road", but not for things like Baja :)

Famously exluded from RAC for having "no rear lights" after the bodywork got ripped off. Lancia added ANOTHER set of lights on the chassis as being so short wheelbase it spent lots of time in the forests sideways and using the bushes to keep it on track. Most times then losing the very flimsy rear bodywork.

Saw Waldegard in the 75 RAC and as the body lifted up you could see all the paddock lights shining THROUGH the fibreglass it was so thin.
Well it's not more an off-road car than an A110 or a 911 are, isn't it? ;)

[Dino Scuderia]

It's too much a caricature of the original...but not as bad as that recent Miura retro.

[wwgkd]

OK, props for an owner that wants something that won't only be able to run on glass. But off road and dirt roads still aren't the same thing.

[clutch-monkey]

i hope they make more than one.
sure it's not true to the original, but it's still bold and pretty enough to look good on the road compared to most other crap/

[pimento]

Apparently they're open to the possibility of a run of about 25 cars, so.. get your chequebooks out gentlemen!

[Ferrer]

OK, props for an owner that wants something that won't only be able to run on glass. But off road and dirt roads still aren't the same thing.
Well...

I still maintain it wasn't built for off-roading, though.

[pimento]

With that shape it's a good candidate for an amphibious car.. just gotta put a nice smooth undertray on there.

[wwgkd]

Well...

I still maintain it wasn't built for off-roading, though.

Haha. All right, I may have to concede that bit. :)

Still, as you say it wasn't built for it. I once saw a second to last gen T-Bird crossing a creek about that deep and 10 feet wide by getting a run at it and skipping across. Doesn't mean it was designed to do that.

[cargirl1990]

This car made my day!!!

[Matra et Alpine]

Well it's not more an off-road car than an A110 or a 911 are, isn't it? ;)
Former winning the Morrocan Rally, the latter the DAKAR.
You don't get much more "off road" than those to win :)

THough I agree, compared to the strength of the Escorts and the to follow Integrales, Quattros and 205s :(

hey, let's not be too slective on pics.
Even Escorts struggle on those wide running water fords :)
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Gkalx9NVxwyq2M:http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/autohabit/RogerClark1977Safari.jpg&t=1
These are from when rallies WERE real and men drove them hard and long :)

[wwgkd]

Former winning the Morrocan Rally, the latter the DAKAR.
You don't get much more "off road" than those to win :)

THough I agree, compared to the strength of the Escorts and the to follow Integrales, Quattros and 205s :(

hey, let's not be too slective on pics.
Even Escorts struggle on those wide running water fords :)
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:Gkalx9NVxwyq2M:http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/autohabit/RogerClark1977Safari.jpg&t=1
These are from when rallies WERE real and men drove them hard and long :)

1. Those cars are still very different from their street versions with a lot of midifications aimed at offroading.

2. Those rallies are still fairly tame as offroading goes. They're really more about going fast over mild terrain than getting over really tough terrain.

[Ferrer]

1. Those cars are still very different from their street versions with a lot of midifications aimed at offroading.

2. Those rallies are still fairly tame as offroading goes. They're really more about going fast over mild terrain than getting over really tough terrain.
These days the cars weren't that different from the ir road going counterparts. At least not as different as today.

And don't dismiss the value of stamina, endurance and just general toughness in proper rallying. And over to you now, Matra... ;)

[Brix]

Former winning the Morrocan Rally, the latter the DAKAR.
You don't get much more "off road" than those to win :)
Wasn't it the 959 which won Dakar? :)

[Matra et Alpine]

911 carrera 4x4s were 1st and 2nd in '84.
But I consider 959 a 911 just as much as a 996 or 997 etc etc :)
It's the silly shape and engine position dna.

wwqkd, I think I said already that I wasn't referring off-road to the likes of Baja or Icelandic ash climbing or coudl argue the Dakar :)

Proper rallies in proper cars :)
In the 70s rally cars were pretty much standard with additional plating at suspension mounting points welded on and for live rear axles additional links. Soft/hard, long/short springs to alter suspension height and compliance. That and skid sump/diff guards and off you go ! To a reasonable inspection our Mk1 Escort was a Boreham works shell -- all welded at home :)

[wwgkd]

These days the cars weren't that different from the ir road going counterparts. At least not as different as today.

And don't dismiss the value of stamina, endurance and just general toughness in proper rallying. And over to you now, Matra... ;)

No argument there. You'll notice my lazy butt is sitting on the couch eating a pizza watching it on TV. ;)


911 carrera 4x4s were 1st and 2nd in '84.
But I consider 959 a 911 just as much as a 996 or 997 etc etc :)
It's the silly shape and engine position dna.

wwqkd, I think I said already that I wasn't referring off-road to the likes of Baja or Icelandic ash climbing or coudl argue the Dakar :)

Proper rallies in proper cars :)
In the 70s rally cars were pretty much standard with additional plating at suspension mounting points welded on and for live rear axles additional links. Soft/hard, long/short springs to alter suspension height and compliance. That and skid sump/diff guards and off you go ! To a reasonable inspection our Mk1 Escort was a Boreham works shell -- all welded at home :)

Ahh. I read the "it doesn't get more offroad than that" and had forgotten the earlier bits.

That's how proper rally cars should be built, IMO. These days it seems like nothing but the name resembles the actual car. Still even with those simple mods you can make a pretty big difference in the cars abilities.

[Matra et Alpine]

That's how proper rally cars should be built, IMO.^^^^ SOME of us lamented GroupB for the same reasons.

and then we saw ( and HEARD ) them in the flesh :) :) :)

[Ferrer]

Late 70's was the best rallying era.

Group B is overrated.

[Matra et Alpine]

wtf?
Integrale, 6R4, RS200, 205T16, RX7 (!)
never "overrated" :) Well over-powered tho' :) :)

[Ferrer]

wtf?
Integrale, 6R4, RS200, 205T16, RX7 (!)
never "overrated" :) Well over-powered tho' :) :)
That's a Group A car. ;)

Overrated in the sense of evryone considering it the best era ever. When it isn't.

[Brix]

That's a Group A car. ;)

Overrated in the sense of evryone considering it the best era ever. When it isn't.
Nope was converted into an Group A car, but debuted as a B car ;)

[Matra et Alpine]

That's a Group A car. ;)

Overrated in the sense of evryone considering it the best era ever. When it isn't.

S4 was the GroupB, full space frame with plastic body parts laid on top.
HF came when GroupB was banned then from that grew the integrale

In terms of spectator sport it was WAY best.
Long wheelbase, short wheelbase, front engine, mid engine, rear engine.
Locked centre difs, variable torque diffs.
NO two came at a corner the same way.

Modern rally cars are too formulaic. They all tend to the same design, the same features, the same basic handling and the same line/performance.
Just as F1 was better before the modern computer-designed, wind-tunnel-refined eacha copy era :(

[DigitalLuke64DD]

Would be great if Lancia release a new Stratos. Since they're owned by Fiat, all they have been producing lately is garbage Fiat Punto's and Bravo's with different bodywork and badges. But Fiat also own Ferrari, so maybe they could build a re-modernized design on a 458 Italia chassis...