Jenson Button in Gun Attack

[VOGUE_MAN]

I'm sure you've all seen this story but I just came across it.

After finally admitting that his 2010 title defence had slipped away, Jenson Button had a terrifying journey from the Interlagos circuit back to his hotel in the Sao Paulo suburb of Morumbi.

A few minutes into the drive in a bullet-proof Mercedes driven by a special armed chauffeur, bandits brandishing machine guns attempted to rob the 2009 world champion and his entourage.

The local driver sped away, smashing into five other cars, but McLaren confirmed that neither Button nor the other passengers - his father, manager and trainer - were hurt.

"My driver was a legend," Button told the Mail on Sunday. "He bounced off about five cars. We were driving over the top of them. It was very scary."

When I started reading this I knew he'd okay but I wasn't expecting machine guns. Does anyone know what kind of car this would have been that he was travelling in? As in S600 Guard or other custom Mercedes?

[NicFromLA]

Might've been an armored GL or G Wagon.

[henk4]

another track off Bernie's list.

[VOGUE_MAN]

I had wondered about an armoured GL or G too. I remember seeing a Fifth Gear or Top Gear video with the 7 Series Security and they were just using it like a battering ram.

[Matra et Alpine]

HUGE money in Brazil and it's a "tiger economy" and let's not forget the oil :)
Bernie will keep it and in his rationale he'll no doubt quote the World Cup and the Olympics :)

Have to say it woudl be expected.
I've been driven through Sao Paulo and the first thing is all the doors are locked and the second the car NEVER stood stationary for longer than a couple of minutes. Road signs don't seem to matter most of the time :)

Brasil do seem to be trying to spend the new money on upgrading/removing the many and large "favelas" ( slums ). So is a hope there long term perhaps .... or do I put too much hope in mankind

[Dino Scuderia]

They may have to move that venue as it seems to sit in the middle of a hell hole.

[Matra et Alpine]

"hell hole" not that fair.

It's a lot of little controlled building for decades and looks chaotic.
Not alot of interest is given by Sao Paulo'ans about the exterior of their property.
But once inside what looks a horribel concrete box they are nice.

Different attitudes :)
BUT once you're near the "favelas" then it's seriously dangerous.
BUt no worse than some of the districts of big cities I've been in around the world :(
Jsut the SCALE though.
Was sobering to see a shanty town with no official water or electricity housing >300,000 people in poverty. BIGGER than the city of Edinburgh. Made me feel sad.
Only way out is crime profits.

However, again like all other large cities. Some of it is beautiful and people very nice.

Brazil will likely pass our economies in the next 10-20 years. SO we better be careful what we say as we start the slide down :)

[roosterjuicer]

BUT once you're near the "favelas" then it's seriously dangerous.


No joke, I remember once, me and my SAS team (led by the venerable soap mctavish) were caught in an ambush there. the enemy had the high ground but we managed to fight our way out. Ultimately I had to jump off a cliff onto a helicopter or something wild like that. Later, the favela became a haven for knife wielding back stabbers.

[Dino Scuderia]

They could at least move it to Mexico City where there's less crime.

[Matra et Alpine]

Classic rooster :)
I got mugged in Rio and survived Mexico City ( though HP salesman told me he didn't know how not when I told them what I did at the weekend :) )
'course I've had the same "feedback" in NY, Chicago, Atlanta, LA, SF etc.
Frankfurt was more about the red light district than the ghettos :) :)

[DesmoRob]

from Spalding Guardian (http://www.spaldingtoday.co.uk)


Button father's fears after attack


Published on Sun Nov 07 17:56:09 GMT 2010

Jenson Button may have been a deliberate target for the armed gang which threatened the Formula One world champion, his father fears.

Button, his father John, manager Richard Goddard and trainer Mike Collier escaped unharmed following the attack that occurred as they returned to their hotel after qualifying for the Brazilian Grand Prix on Saturday night.

Despite the ordeal, Button was ready to race on Sunday but he described the incident as "horrendous".

"You hear about it happening over the years, but until you are actually involved you don't know how it feels, and it's a pretty scary situation," said Button after arriving at the track. "Initially you don't believe it's happening, so it's quite strange.

"But we weren't the only people who had it yesterday. The Sauber mechanics were also held up, and they actually had to stop and give their assailants everything. They had a pretty horrible ordeal, so I feel sorry for those guys.


"As for myself, looking back now, it's an horrendous thing to have happened, although I feel fine now. But there's obviously a lot of attention because it's the first time a driver has been held up. Hopefully it will show the dangers that are there, that we'll take more care."

Button's father, John, fears his son may have been a deliberate target for the gang.

"We're aware of the dangers. We've heard of many, many incidents," said Mr Button, speaking to Press Association Sport.

"But the only thing that really worries me this morning is whether they were after Jense. It was really weird because we were in a very small, compact Mercedes, and they couldn't see in. But it looked like they were waiting for someone. I don't know if someone at the circuit had told them we had left.

"So that's a little bit worrying. Maybe I'm wrong, but yes, it was scary. Our driver, though, was awesome - straight out of Hollywood, the damage he caused. It was unbelievable, just like in a film, like Sylvester Stallone in Rambo. He was really cool, there was a lot of damage. But we're all cool, all fine."

whats a very small compact mercedes? A class, B class, Smart For Four ? haha

[Matra et Alpine]

BY the time the up-armour a road car/SUV for personal protection there's less space insiade than a Smart FourTwo :) So John maybe just a little confused.

Also dont' see WHY woudl anyone bother to target Jenson :)
MOre likely as already covered by press, they knew lots of expensive cars with rich contents woudl be leaving the track .....

[DesmoRob]

BY the time the up-armour a road car/SUV for personal protection there's less space insiade than a Smart FourTwo :) So John maybe just a little confused.

Also dont' see WHY woudl anyone bother to target Jenson :)
MOre likely as already covered by press, they knew lots of expensive cars with rich contents woudl be leaving the track .....

How much armoring do they put in those things anyway? I thought an armored vehicle had not much more than reinforced body panels and bullet proof glass all around.

[Matra et Alpine]

The serious stuff HP used to use in Mexico was the windows ( non opening ) were about 3 inches thick. There are different levels of protection. I guess I'm picturing McLaren woudl pay for the best going. THAT has serious multiple layers to the doors too.
But, yeah, partly tongue in cheek --- thought the Smart comment woudl have made that clear :)
Google for Centigon the German company and their range is liekly one of what was used. M-B S-class.

[Savageduck]

The serious stuff HP used to use in Mexico was the windows ( non opening ) were about 3 inches thick. There are different levels of protection. I guess I'm picturing McLaren woudl pay for the best going. THAT has serious multiple layers to the doors too.
But, yeah, partly tongue in cheek --- thought the Smart comment woudl have made that clear :)
Google for Centigon the German company and their range is liekly one of what was used. M-B S-class.

Kevlar armor is replacing steel in the panels as a weight saving device. Glass is still the major modification area due to the thickness needed to provide high levels of protection.
There seem to be quite a few specialists in that business, in the US, Mexico and Europe. They offer the ability to protect vehicles as unlikely as Mini-Coopers.

https://armoralliance.com/Specifications.htm
http://bulldogdirect.com/
http://www.worldwidearmor.com/

[Matra et Alpine]

^^^ I know from a chat with a guy many years back that the top protection is fitting chobham armour ( US burlingham ) and "similar" into the door areas and making them MUCH wider. Kevlar on it's own doesn't stop much beyond large calibre rounds.
Aware that the top guys attract the toip attackers they need to protect against armour piercing and plasma-jet/shaped charge weapons not just the RPGs of a decade ago.
I think that's why the top ones have such thicker doors.

[Savageduck]

^^^ I know from a chat with a guy many years back that the top protection is fitting chobham armour ( US burlingham ) and "similar" into the door areas and making them MUCH wider. Kevlar on it's own doesn't stop much beyond large calibre rounds.
Aware that the top guys attract the toip attackers they need to protect against armour piercing and plasma-jet/shaped charge weapons not just the RPGs of a decade ago.
I think that's why the top ones have such thicker doors.

Chobham armor on a civilian passenger vehicle! That sounds like an urban myth. :rolleyes:

There might well be a civilian, bonded ceramic/metal armor plate similar to Chobham, and they might promote it as "Chobham", but it will be a poor distant second cousin, and only an up-sell for the "security" consultant. For most civilian applications you protect for likely threat, and that is mostly hand gun, and high power rifle.
Hell! If you are going to protect door & body panels with a ceramic/metal armor the obvious weak point is the glass. That can withstand multiple 30 cal and 7.62mm impacts, but was never intended to protect against an RPG, or LAWS. Few of the civilian protected vehicles will be able to handle a .50 API.
There is a reason tanks, and armored fighting vehicles have limited glass exposure.

[Matra et Alpine]

Sorry, I was only going from what was told to me by the company doing the serious ones.

Chobham armour is nothing "special" and dependant on the number of layers and materials it doesn't ahve to be a foot thick :)

The US Presidential Limo .. quote ... "It is completely fitted with military grade armor at least five inches thick". So are you thinking that's 5 inches of solid steel ? OR a mix of steel, ceramic, kevlar ??

Please note I also said that they said this was a case of upscaling the armour to match the threat.
I think you've gone off at a tangent thinkgin I'm saying ALL :( bad :(
If you read I quoted the different US version and "similar".
Chobham is called that jsut because of where it was invented. There isn't just ONE version of Chobham, there are numerous dependant on the perceived threat to protect against. Each has differences in the layers and quantity.

[clutch-monkey]

No joke, I remember once, me and my SAS team (led by the venerable soap mctavish) were caught in an ambush there. the enemy had the high ground but we managed to fight our way out. Ultimately I had to jump off a cliff onto a helicopter or something wild like that. Later, the favela became a haven for knife wielding back stabbers.
LMAO
haha +1


How much armoring do they put in those things anyway? I thought an armored vehicle had not much more than reinforced body panels and bullet proof glass all around.
not sure but if you head over to box o' truth you can see some 'independant' testing lol.
The Box O' Truth #48 - Laminated Bullet Proof Glass - Rifles - Page 1 (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot48.htm)

[Savageduck]

Sorry, I was only going from what was told to me by the company doing the serious ones.

Chobham armour is nothing "special" and dependant on the number of layers and materials it doesn't ahve to be a foot thick :)

The US Presidential Limo .. quote ... "It is completely fitted with military grade armor at least five inches thick". So are you thinking that's 5 inches of solid steel ? OR a mix of steel, ceramic, kevlar ??

Please note I also said that they said this was a case of upscaling the armour to match the threat.
I think you've gone off at a tangent thinkgin I'm saying ALL :( bad :(
If you read I quoted the different US version and "similar".
Chobham is called that jsut because of where it was invented. There isn't just ONE version of Chobham, there are numerous dependant on the perceived threat to protect against. Each has differences in the layers and quantity.

Agreed, "Chobham" is the common label for ceramic/metal armors. It is prudent to protect for the threat, however, for the most part the threat is not elevated to HEAT rounds, or missiles. The logical protection level is against firearm disablement, combined with defensive driving techniques.

There is also nothing stopping a civilian company from developing its own ceramic/metal laminated armor, except that most formulations of the ceramics and the laminate sequences are highly classified by the nations producing and using "Chobham" type armor.

As far as the Presidential limo(s)(there are more than one) and its "military grade armor" protection go, I would not classify them as civilian vehicles. It is not built from a regular Cadillac limo. They are a one off special government order, built on a GMC TopKick truck chassis, and they are only styled to look like a Cadillac, and do not share any body panels with the Caddy. It has the frame to carry the considerable weight of several different types of "military grade" armor.

[Chernaudi]

Also, Kristen Stewart, Rob Pattinson and Stephenie Meyer are in Rio filming scenes for The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn. Their own security and the Brazilians are taking no freakin' chances there! They've been driven around in armored SUVs with armed guards and Military Policemen. I have to say that the fans are better behaved than in several areas in America or Europe, by the way!

I know that Brazil takes a lof of flak, but there are cities in American and Europe where crime--random gangs or organized crime--are equally as rife.

[Matra et Alpine]

So savage you agree then that the "top guys" get it then.
Go back and READ coz that is all I said about the REALLY advanced stuff :(
It REALLY pisses me off about forum pussies who can't be effing bothered to READ :( :(

[Savageduck]

So savage you agree then that the "top guys" get it then.
Go back and READ coz that is all I said about the REALLY advanced stuff :(
It REALLY pisses me off about forum pussies who can't be effing bothered to READ :( :(

All it takes is money, and sometimes that money comes out of a national budget.
…and reading is a skill I mastered some time ago, one I take out and exercise frequently. ;)

[Matra et Alpine]

^^^ well why not this time savage as most of your previous posts clearly did NOT demontrate that skill being used before you typed :(

I see now you've come round to "all it takes is money".
roflmao

[Savageduck]

^^^ well why not this time savage as most of your previous posts clearly did NOT demontrate that skill being used before you typed :(

I see now you've come round to "all it takes is money".
roflmao

Sorry, I just don't know how to "demontrate". So I guess that could be the reason it was not clear.

…and yes, money is all it ever takes. It is sort of a universal truth, when it comes to cars, cameras, women, and armor protected vehicles. :rolleyes:

[roosterjuicer]

So I watched the race today a bit and the announcers mentioned that one of the other teams had their briefcases stolen at gunpoint also. After saying that the announcer goes "thats just modern life in brazil" or something along those lines haha

[roosterjuicer]

I know that Brazil takes a lof of flak, but there are cities in American and Europe where crime--random gangs or organized crime--are equally as rife.

I cant speak for europe but there are no cities in America where crime is "equally as rife" as what it sounds like that brazilian city is like.

[Magnum9987]

On the armor thing,

No private security company would ever use chaubum armor. It is extremely heavy, and drastically hampers handling. If a security driver can't get away (and if they can afford Chaubum armor, they can afford a driver), all the armor in the world is useless.

Jenson himself accredited his driver's driving skills to his escape.

[NSXType-R]

By the way, is chaubum armor depleted uranium armor?

I tried googling it, it never showed up.

[Magnum9987]

By the way, is chaubum armor depleted uranium armor?

I tried googling it, it never showed up.

It really depends on the compound. Like said previously, Chaubum is a general term, and is applied everywhere. I know for a fact that the M1 Abram COMBAT TANK uses depleted uranium as a part of its Chaubum compound.
But, it's heavier than lead, so its applications in private security just about negate its benefits as a protective material.

[Savageduck]

By the way, is chaubum armor depleted uranium armor?

I tried googling it, it never showed up.

Wrong spelling, it is "Chobham".
…and no it is not usual to find depleted uranium in Chobham armor, but it is found in some special variants of Chobham. It is typically a laminate of specially formulated ceramics and metal, usually titanium alloys, and sometimes heavy metal which can include depleted uranium.

Wikipedia gives as good an explanation as you will find outside of classified documents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chobham_armour

[DesmoRob]

not sure but if you head over to box o' truth you can see some 'independant' testing lol.
The Box O' Truth #48 - Laminated Bullet Proof Glass - Rifles - Page 1 (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot48.htm)

That's awesome, but if I was on the receiving end of that, I still wouldn't hesitate to shit myself.

[clutch-monkey]

That's awesome, but if I was on the receiving end of that, I still wouldn't hesitate to shit myself.
yep for sure!
this is their test on a normal car :eek:
The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth #1 - Windshields Inside/Out - Page 1 (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot1.htm)

[DesmoRob]

yep for sure!
this is their test on a normal car :eek:
The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth #1 - Windshields Inside/Out - Page 1 (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot1.htm)

I like that. Too bad hollywood doesn't do more research on these things before they release a movie lol.

[Matra et Alpine]

Sheez, CHOBHAM :)
Call it Burlington if you want the ripped off USA copy after visiting Chobham Common where it was invented.
It can vary dramatically. In lightweight vehicles it uses an aluminium backing instead of the steel on the heavy armour. As stated many variants exist and yes we Brits are maybe guilty of calling all multi-layered ceramic/metal/fibre 'chobham' ... coz WE INVENTED IT :)
So "Magnum...", yes the CHOBHAM armour on an Abrahms weighs LOTS coz it is intended to stop a top end anti-tank weapon. On a lighter vehicle it can be thinner/loghter.

Man I sometimes wish google did NOT ezist and stop internet-experts reading wiki pages and thinking that's it :) :)

Only joking lads, BUT pleae check facts adn sources

[Matra et Alpine]

I like that. Too bad hollywood doesn't do more research on these things before they release a movie lol.
I liked too, especially the bit
"It should be noted that armored vehicle glass works 2 ways, so do not try to shoot through armored vehicle glass."
:)

Hollywood ? RESEARCH ?? Hell they cant even get things like Enigma right and you expect windscreens ?????

[roosterjuicer]

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/07/sauber-engineers-also-ambushed-in-brazil/

looks like thats another one to add to the list

[Dino Scuderia]

This isn't the first year teams were robbed there....maybe it's the worst though.

[Matra et Alpine]

Happens dozens of times ever day for tourists.
Even multinational corporates advice sets the expectation :(
And not to bother wasting time going to the police !!

I was mugged 10 yards having just walked out of a 4star hotel on the Copacabana beach. THey got nothing --- sadly my Scottish upbringing over-rode the training and I DID fight them off. Silly :( But I went in, changed my torn clothes and back out again.

[DesmoRob]

I was mugged 10 yards having just walked out of a 4star hotel on the Copacabana beach. THey got nothing --- sadly my Scottish upbringing over-rode the training and I DID fight them off. Silly :( But I went in, changed my torn clothes and back out again.

Did you sunshine them and yell freedom really loud??

[Sledgehammer]

Did you sunshine them and yell freedom really loud??

ROFL. He had to do that second to smearing blue paint on his face to help with the effect.

[Kitdy]

My cousin is a Scot (he's also wee) and he was visiting here and was at a bus terminal. He was in the washroom when a guy said gimme your wallet. My cousin turned around and said something like: "Have you seen Braveheart? Well, I am Scottish. Screw off."

The dude left.

[Matra et Alpine]

"screw off" ??? He must be from Edinburgh :)

Glaswegian would have told him feck off, pick a windae ..... yer leaving and gave him a Glasgae kiss :)

Rest of you ... typical Hollywood nonsense .... we don't stand their shouting anything ..... we get the first hit in and THEN shout :)

[Kitdy]

"screw off" ??? He must be from Edinburgh :)

Glaswegian would have told him feck off, pick a windae ..... yer leaving and gave him a Glasgae kiss :)

Rest of you ... typical Hollywood nonsense .... we don't stand their shouting anything ..... we get the first hit in and THEN shout :)

No, he didn't say that, but the forum does not permit me to write what he said.

He was born in Dundee and raised in Arbroath (Arbroath FC FTW!)

[DesmoRob]

we don't stand their shouting anything ..... we get the first hit in and THEN shout :)

If put in a similar situation, I would probably be shouting.... while running in the opposite direction. Well I guess that depends on the size of the guy, but I'd rather not get stabbed. All I ever have on my person is a swiss army knife, and those don't open very quick, especially not with finger nails as dull as mine.

[Matra et Alpine]

See that's why the whole world fears a Scot with a few drams in him :)

[Rockefella]

See that's why the whole world fears a Scot with a few drams in him :)

What you call fear is actually a look of confusion on the other man's face since he has no f'n idea what the Scotsman is saying.

[Matra et Alpine]

ay true, very true :)
It's our equivalent of "shock and awe" .... confuse and beat up :)

But as like all historical missionaries I always took the opporuntity to teach it !
There's many a professional in the cities of the US who can ask for a beer, chat up a nice looking lass or threaten violence in the best taught and trained Glaswegian :)

[Kitdy]

Glasgow is a terrifying place.

Luckily, I have only driven through it and stopped in a fairly nice suburban area.

[Matra et Alpine]

Glasgow is a beautiful city with some of the best Victorian architecture in Britain and one of the best musems bequeathed to trhe city.

It's negativity is over-played and because we are comfortable enough to make jokes about ourselves then the negative image drunk , looking for a fight Glaswegian dominates outside image.

I've walked in jsut as bad and a lot worse all over the world and was shocked at only one block from the White House :)

Next time you're over if family are scared then give me a call and I'll show you things of interest and beaty and all of it as safe as every other city :)