Ferrari 612 replacement, the FF

[Dino Scuderia]

Well, what a swerve in styling for Ferrari.:eek:

[aNOBLEman]

A swerve in styling is right! Looks good from the side and rear in my opinion but the front is not my taste for sure. Has plenty of horsepower to go very fast. It will be interesting to see how it will handle with the all wheel drive system.

[Dino Scuderia]

The jury is still out as to whether the roofline is just for the show car.

[Man of Steel]

Alfa Romeo Brera anyone? Not pleasant --> for a Ferrari.

Another killed dream for purists, plus now including 4WD system.

[RacingManiac]

Front is odd looking, remind me of Citroen for some reason...

The roof line looks like a big M Coupe....the old Z3 one...

[teatako]

Because vomit is the new "Are we there yet?"

[thebrochureman]

I love the idea of this car, but i don't Really like the looks.
here is some info

TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

Engine
Type: 65-degree V12
Overall displacement: 6,262 cc
Maximum power: 660 CV @ 8,000 rpm
Maximum torque: 683 Nm @ 6,000 rpm
Dimensions and weight
Length: 4907 mm
Width: 1953 mm
Height: 1379 mm
Dry weight: 1790 kg
Weight distribution: 47% front, 53% rear
Weight/power ratio: 2.7 kg/CV
Performance
Maximum speed: 335 km/h
0-100 km/h: 3.7 sec
Fuel consumption and emissions (ECE+EUDC)
Fuel consumption: 15,4 l/100 km
Emissions: 360 g/km

i love the fact that its got 660 bhp 6.3L V12 and 4WD so you could say i kind of like it.
but is a it a true Ferrari if it has 4WD.

[Cobrafan427]

it should be named the WTF

[thebrochureman]

it looks like the 458 crossed with the 599 GTO, not a good look.

[andycoates]

The jury is still out as to whether the roofline is just for the show car.
I really hope that's a rumour...if it goes to a fully fledged high off the ground 4x4 it'll be a sad day indeed! :(

[blingbling]

it may look unconventional and controversial

but at least they had the balls to get away from generic looks

[Dino Scuderia]

I really hope that's a rumour...if it goes to a fully fledged high off the ground 4x4 it'll be a sad day indeed! :(

Nope, that is the production roof.

[092326001]

I don't mind the shooting brake look, I even like it a bit.
But that cartoony angry front end is horrible.

[Dino Scuderia]

Rear 3/4 view.

[Rockefella]

I usually exaggerate when I say things like this but, that is HORRIBLE. The rear looks good but that side profile is a mess. Front looks goofy too.

[Ferrer]

I quite like it. Except for the four wheel drive and the automatic gearbox.

Not quite sure if it works as a Ferrari. Or an italian car for that matter.

[Man of Steel]

The bottomline will be that people who can afford it, will still buy this. Just because it has the prancing horse on it. That doesn't mean it is a beauty.

I pronounce a diesel version. And maybe a SUV after that. Poor Enzo.

[DesmoRob]

The first thing that came to mind when I saw the front bumper/grill was Peugeot. I don't mind the car, but for a Ferrari its very different. They seem to be all over the place with their styling.

[NicFromLA]

I need to see more pictures (I'd like to see the interior), but from what I see I like it. I especially like it in that silver-grey color. I always liked the Aston Martin DB5 Shootingbreak and the BMW Z3 Coupe, but if you hated those cars I'm sure you won't like this either.

I'm assuming the "4WD" is more of a rear-biased AWD system similar to the Audi RS cars and the Porsche Panamera 4.

[pimento]

Why so serious?

I like the overall design and I think the wagon shape is a great idea. The 4WD is an on-demand setup, so under normal conditions it's RWD. I imagine there'll be several settings for it a la the 458's traction control, from snow (no slip) to race (no 4WD unless you're crashing) or similar.

Also, there won't be a diesel version but there will be a hybrid one.

[NSXType-R]

Front is odd looking, remind me of Citroen for some reason...

The roof line looks like a big M Coupe....the old Z3 one...

All the Ferraris have odd smiles now- the front is a lot like the 458 Italia.

It's really terrible looking.

I don't mind the fact that it's a breadvan- it's not the first Ferrari breadvan. It's just so freaking awkward. I never found the Z3 coupe to be awkward at all actually- just the typical German weirdness.

Ferraris aren't styled the way they're supposed to anymore. Nor are BMWs.

[pimento]

Those screen grabs won't be doing it justice, save your final opinions for when you've seen it in the flesh or at least better pictures.

[Magnum9987]

If it where a fast back I'd love it....

But I hate it. That and AWD and automatic gearbox is NOT what Ferrari is supposed to be.

[pimento]

It's not an auto, it's a 7 speed dual clutch transaxle.. same as the Cali and 458.

[MilesR]

I am more mystified by the name. Are we all quite sure that "FF" does not stand for "Ferguson Formula"? I am not sure that I can really believe that it is coincidence. The similarities extend to the size, layout, target market, engine size, and the technological improvements. Even the shape is similar, albeit with a shorter boot.

[LHamilton_w]

Not diggin the front end at all. The rest of the car actually seems fairly decent.

[whiteballz]

I like it. It's out there and new.

[csl177]

The "FF" designation surprised me too... but Jensen's WAS 40 years ago. I like most of the styling and appreciate the technical specification, but not crazy about the overly aggressive anime face Ferrari has decided to roll with. This week is Cavallino; last night was the cocktail gathering and about thirty 2011 cars were lined up, new styling cues evident.

[f6fhellcat13]

If sold, I'd say this proves Enzo right about his costumers.

[csl177]

If sold, I'd say this proves Enzo right about his costumers.
That what they really want are Lamborghinis? The FF finally addresses a market last met with the Espada but with FWD. :rolleyes:

[IBrake4Rainbows]

The 612 was a car with some pretty poor detailing that was exacerbated by an awkward footprint and wheelbase.

This is merely a shooting brake version of that awkwardness, with a little bit of sculptural change thrown in for good measure.

And the rear hatch is bloody boring considering the rest of the car. It genuinely looks like an Upscaled Z3 Coupe.

[McLareN]

One of the ugliest Ferraris I've ever seen. So incredibly awkward/over-designed.
The mere sight of it enrages me.

[Matra et Alpine]

Yeah the Ferrari site on the car - it's sweet ,shame the car's ugly :) - says the AWD system is "4RM" and the FF stands for "Ferrari Four" for 4 seats and 4 wheel drive.
The FF revealed to the world
(http://www.ferrarifour.com/Start.aspx?lang=en)

[Ferrer]

I'm assuming the "4WD" is more of a rear-biased AWD system similar to the Audi RS cars and the Porsche Panamera 4.
I believen you meant that as something positive, but to me you made it worse...

It's not an auto, it's a 7 speed dual clutch transaxle.. same as the Cali and 458.
So, it's still an auto...

[thebrochureman]

what is with car Manufactures at the moment you have got the ferrari FF which is not a Proper Ferrari and pig Ugly, and you have Pagani with their Replacement for the Zonda which look Horrible.

[Cobrafan427]

I am more mystified by the name. Are we all quite sure that "FF" does not stand for "Ferguson Formula"? I am not sure that I can really believe that it is coincidence. The similarities extend to the size, layout, target market, engine size, and the technological improvements. Even the shape is similar, albeit with a shorter boot.

The name mislead me to believe it was front engined and front wheel drive before i got the details on it. I still don't like it, i don't like the concept, i don't like the name and most importantly i don't like the styling

[Matra et Alpine]

with you 100% cobrafan:)

[Badsight]

reminds me of the breadvan side on

& Z bmw's

but still , under 1800 kg with a V12 & 4WD - something the 612 could only dream of

[Badsight]

front end is based on the demonic italian pokemon btw

[faksta]

with you 100% cobrafan:)

I tend to be on the opposite side of the barricades. The fact that it is a shooting brake alone makes me like it, and when you think of a V12 shooting brake...
Let Mercedes-Benz turn red with their 5-door 'shooting brake' interpretation and decide not to make its 7, 9 and 11-door versions.

[Commodore GS/E]

The 612 was a car with some pretty poor detailing that was exacerbated by an awkward footprint and wheelbase.

This is merely a shooting brake version of that awkwardness, with a little bit of sculptural change thrown in for good measure.

And the rear hatch is bloody boring considering the rest of the car. It genuinely looks like an Upscaled Z3 Coupe.

I loved the Z3. And I also quite like the fact that this will possibly be the fastest ever production hatchback ;). They hatch could have bee designed a lot nicer, but it is certainly better than the blob called the 612.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Awesome, love it. Give me a black one on bronze TE37's with open pipes.

[NicFromLA]

I believen you meant that as something positive, but to me you made it worse...

So, it's still an auto...

First, I'm no fan of AWD sports cars either. Hopefully it's one of those things where you can dial in the power to go mainly to the rear wheels.

Really on anything over 400hp a stick/clutch ceases to be fun and becomes a burden. I'll take a dual-clutch on something like this and a stick on vintage cars, hot-hatches or little roadsters like the Elise or the Z4.

[Kitdy]

I find the dual-clutch less offensive than the looks, the shooting break design, and the AWD.

[Kooper]

I like it. Not crazy about it, but I like it. Compared with the 612, this car is a huge improvement, unfortunate grille notwithstanding.

Are we absolutely sure this is the final product, or perhaps just a prototype to showcase Ferrari's 4WD system? If it is only a prototype, I've no doubt most styling elements will carry over to the actual 612 replacement. If that is the case, the shooting brake bit might disappear, which to me is a pity as that's one of the things I really like a lot.

[Sledgehammer]

Based on this new Ferrari and the new Zonda, I would say that ugly is the new "look"... according to the Italians.

[Ferrer]

Really on anything over 400hp a stick/clutch ceases to be fun and becomes a burden. I'll take a dual-clutch on something like this and a stick on vintage cars, hot-hatches or little roadsters like the Elise or the Z4.
Disagree. A gear lever and a clutch pedal are always fun, no matter the amount of horsepower.

[pimento]

Disagree. A gear lever and a clutch pedal are always fun, no matter the amount of horsepower.

I agree that nothing beats a clutch and a gear lever (though I've not driven anything all that powerful) but at least it's not a slushbox.

[Ferrer]

I have driven cars with 400-plus bhp and the manual made the experience better not worse. Flappy paddles can be very efficient and fast but they feel artificial, and in my opinion cannot beat the satisfaction you get from a well executed gear shift.

[andycoates]

Nope, that is the production roof.
Phew! :o

[Cobrafan427]

First, I'm no fan of AWD sports cars either. Hopefully it's one of those things where you can dial in the power to go mainly to the rear wheels.


I visited Ferrari's website and they have a whole video thinger devoted to it with tech specs and it said that they split the power 57% to the rear wheels

[Rasmus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn99cOS6QY0

[csl177]

Tierra del Fuego is gonna be a hot market for them.

[digitalcraft]

I really don't undestand the short-sightedness of 'lets completely dilute our brand to make a little cash on this new car'. There's plenty of other badges they could have put this thing under. Race inspired an AWD 4seater is not.

[Ferrer]

I really don't undestand the short-sightedness of 'lets completely dilute our brand to make a little cash on this new car'. There's plenty of other badges they could have put this thing under. Race inspired an AWD 4seater is not.
Maserati Treporte?

[Badsight]

while Ferrai could probablly do a really great 4WD sports tourer , FF is a really dumb name . someone had the final say on that - & that someone is lacking in the creative department upstairs

it gives me visions of a front wheel drive 4 cylinder

and seriously - that angle at the front is screaming "evil pokemon"

[clutch-monkey]

and seriously - that angle at the front is screaming "evil pokemon"

thanks. i'll never be able to 'unsee' that, now that you pointed it out LOL

[Dino Scuderia]

The FF looks like it's styling is adjusted for the asian market.

[Kitdy]

This site - and Ferrer in particular - has made me feel more like an old man when it comes to cars. I am now fighting against the current trends in the automotive industry.

One of my friends likes cars, and basically insists that every new generation of car is better than the preceding. I kind of thought this in years past, but then I learned that so many new cars are so artificial.

I think former poster Turbo.Jenkins said that automatic gearboxes are like condoms - I remember this quote well. He said they remove all feeling - and hence enjoyment - from the act.

I kinda feel like that is what cars are becoming in general. More electronic gizmos, more computers making decisions for you, less interaction between human and machine. The fundamental interaction between human and machine is what I desire. Driving a go kart is absolutely exhilarating, as is riding a motorcycle. I think a large part of why that is the case is due to the large degree of synergy between driver/rider machine. I think there is a happy balance point between technology and simplicity (which differs from person to person), but many new cars are moving far from that balance.

Electronic steering -which particularly enrages me - lane change warnings, adaptive cruise control... These things may be good for some, but probably not for most of us. I thought the point of driving a car was to... drive a car. Not be driven in a car. Fair game though, for most, a car just gets you around. Most of the time for me that is the case as well. However, what we are seeing now is sportscars and other enthusiast cars being dumbed down as well in the name of progress and efficiency.

I meant to start by talking about the FF, but have diverged massively. So to the matter at hand...

Some say that you need to see this thing in the flesh to fully rate it, but I have a good idea it's going to look just as bad as it does in these pictures. Looks are the first thing that is wrong with the car - it looks absolutely terrible. The whole shape is terribly awkward. The rear end is unbelievably brutal.

So you see this Ferrari, and that is the first thing you think of. Then you look deeper. You see it has AWD. It does not have a manual gearbox which is not surprising. People are saying AWD is needed for FF drivers to to be able to handle the power. Maybe the AWD will make it super quick. I imagine journalists will say this car is absolutely incredible to drive - and it probably is. The problem is that the car's philosophy is wrong. Why does it need AWD? Because it has so much power. Why does it have so much power? There is no need (other than for prospective owners to dickwag) for a GT of this nature to have 660 hp. 660 hp just a few years ago is what Ferrari's supercar was putting out. The 612 had 130 hp less than this. Power wars are fun, but this seems fairly unreasonable. I guess Ferrari has to do it though - the next gen always must be heavier, have more technology, be faster, and be "better." Manuals are going the way of the do do it seems.

I don't so much lament the loss of a manual in this car as it has no chance to sell, but to see Ferrari's "budget" sportscar without a manual is quite sad.

I have open in another tab a timeline of Ferrari's cars. Let's turn back the clock to not so long ago - 1996. In 1996, the Ferrari lineup consisted of the 355, the 550, the 456, and the F50. Would you rather that lineup, or the current lineup of California, 458, 599, and FF?

As a final thought, why the hell is that it's name?! 522 doesn't have a nice ring to it, but abandoning the traditional naming convention is annoying as well, and you could always fudge it and make it 524 or 526 or something.

[Ferrer]

Kitdy, while I mostly agree with all you what you say, there are still some gems to be enjoyed currently. From the Renault Twingo RS to the Pagani Zonda F, I'm sure there are at least 10 cars we could name car enthusiasts would enjoy. They won't be the same as the olden cars, but still enjoyable.

The problem is, proper (and proper is the important word here) car enthusiasts make for a very small percentage of the world's car customers. Which means that even before starting we are figthing a lost battle unfortuntely.

For instance I was arguing some days ago with one my work colleagues that their Audi A4 didn't need 255 tires on 19 inch wheels, while she disagreed and tried to convince me that with a 240bhp diesel engine they were necessary.

Unfortunately to most people this would be a car enthusiast. Even though she is completely wrong, and those are (some, maybe most?) of the people who have perverted proper drivers cars.

[092326001]

That youtube video made me realise one thing.
It looks pretty good in the dark.

[Badsight]

this maybe Ferraris Cayenne

with the car world so full these days , & with credit (not money) tight , they are only going to go foward with what they think will sell best

staying "true" to the marque will only appease a minimal number that are hardcore faithfull

[pimento]

Haters gonna hate dot gif.

I'm sure Ferrari aren't intentionally making a car that the mass majority of people think is ugly, so on that front either most people here are in the minority or they know something we don't. As for the tech, I don't see why a GT car shouldn't be designed with an appropriate* AWD system - they're meant to be the fastest way to cross a continent and Ferrari are meant to make the best GTs, so why not factor in some inclement weather. Tradition is all well and good and there is definately good reasons why there should be RWD, front engined V12 Ferraris available but the 599 and its successors can and should be that. With the gearbox it was inevitable. I do agree that nothing beats a clutch pedal and an H-pattern, but in such a high-tech, low volume car they have to go with what the majority of the people who actually buy these things want. Engineering an H-pattern option into the fancy new drivetrain just isn't worth the outlay for them.

*Rear biased, tarmac focused, able to be powerslided like a proper FR can be:


Ferrari said the 4-wheel drive system dubbed "4RM" is patented by itself, and is 50% lighter than conventional 4WD sytems. Details are scarce. We learned that it is a part-time 4WD system, i.e. drive is normally sent to the rear wheels, and only to the front wheels when the rear starts losing traction. Ferrari claims its electronics allows the torque transfer to the front wheels instantaneously. The system employs a transfer case made by Italian gear expert Carraro. Its electronics is provided by Marelli, a subsidiary of FIAT.

[2ndclasscitizen]

This site - and Ferrer in particular - has made me feel more like an old man when it comes to cars. I am now fighting against the current trends in the automotive industry.

One of my friends likes cars, and basically insists that every new generation of car is better than the preceding. I kind of thought this in years past, but then I learned that so many new cars are so artificial.

I think former poster Turbo.Jenkins said that automatic gearboxes are like condoms - I remember this quote well. He said they remove all feeling - and hence enjoyment - from the act.

I kinda feel like that is what cars are becoming in general. More electronic gizmos, more computers making decisions for you, less interaction between human and machine. The fundamental interaction between human and machine is what I desire. Driving a go kart is absolutely exhilarating, as is riding a motorcycle. I think a large part of why that is the case is due to the large degree of synergy between driver/rider machine. I think there is a happy balance point between technology and simplicity (which differs from person to person), but many new cars are moving far from that balance.

Electronic steering -which particularly enrages me - lane change warnings, adaptive cruise control... These things may be good for some, but probably not for most of us. I thought the point of driving a car was to... drive a car. Not be driven in a car. Fair game though, for most, a car just gets you around. Most of the time for me that is the case as well. However, what we are seeing now is sportscars and other enthusiast cars being dumbed down as well in the name of progress and efficiency.

I meant to start by talking about the FF, but have diverged massively. So to the matter at hand...

Some say that you need to see this thing in the flesh to fully rate it, but I have a good idea it's going to look just as bad as it does in these pictures. Looks are the first thing that is wrong with the car - it looks absolutely terrible. The whole shape is terribly awkward. The rear end is unbelievably brutal.

So you see this Ferrari, and that is the first thing you think of. Then you look deeper. You see it has AWD. It does not have a manual gearbox which is not surprising. People are saying AWD is needed for FF drivers to to be able to handle the power. Maybe the AWD will make it super quick. I imagine journalists will say this car is absolutely incredible to drive - and it probably is. The problem is that the car's philosophy is wrong. Why does it need AWD? Because it has so much power. Why does it have so much power? There is no need (other than for prospective owners to dickwag) for a GT of this nature to have 660 hp. 660 hp just a few years ago is what Ferrari's supercar was putting out. The 612 had 130 hp less than this. Power wars are fun, but this seems fairly unreasonable. I guess Ferrari has to do it though - the next gen always must be heavier, have more technology, be faster, and be "better." Manuals are going the way of the do do it seems.

I don't so much lament the loss of a manual in this car as it has no chance to sell, but to see Ferrari's "budget" sportscar without a manual is quite sad.

I have open in another tab a timeline of Ferrari's cars. Let's turn back the clock to not so long ago - 1996. In 1996, the Ferrari lineup consisted of the 355, the 550, the 456, and the F50. Would you rather that lineup, or the current lineup of California, 458, 599, and FF?

As a final thought, why the hell is that it's name?! 522 doesn't have a nice ring to it, but abandoning the traditional naming convention is annoying as well, and you could always fudge it and make it 524 or 526 or something.

http://i.imgur.com/jMSM5.gif

[clutch-monkey]

Engineering an H-pattern option into the fancy new drivetrain just isn't worth the outlay for them.
this
besides, majority of their customer base expects paddles anyway.

[Kitdy]

There should not be a manual in a car like this. Ferrer may disagree, but a GT is about ease of use, and a manual is more troublesome for a gentleperson.

That being said, old school GTs with manual are pretty sweet.

The car has other problems.

[Ferrer]

Gran Tourers aren't about ease use. They are about covering a lot of terrain in little time in comfort. They are mile eaters.

Furthermore, any gentleman should be able to operate a manual gearbox. It'd also make for natural selection.

I know no one agrees with me, but I couldn't care less. Also, I'm not going to change the market of Paris Hiltons and P.Diddys, so don't worry. The manual isn't coming back.

[pimento]

Gran Tourers aren't about ease use. They are about covering a lot of terrain in little time in comfort. They are mile eaters.

Furthermore, any gentleman should be able to operate a manual gearbox. It'd also make for natural selection.

I know no one agrees with me, but I couldn't care less. Also, I'm not going to change the market of Paris Hiltons and P.Diddys, so don't worry. The manual isn't coming back.

I fully agree with you, but most unfortunately I'm not in the market for this car. :p

[Kitdy]

Ferrer, you said you quite like it though.

What's to like?

This is one of the most unFerrari, and unFerrer, Ferraris.

[pimento]

Ferrer, you said you quite like it though.

What's to like?

This is one of the most unFerrari, and unFerrer, Ferraris.

I don't think it's really all that 'unFerrari' to be honest. It's a very fast, very capable, very technologically advanced GT with a V12 up the front. It's also taking a cynical view of their customers as fools who'll fund the racing endeavours. Sounds like Enzo to me.

[IBrake4Rainbows]

On pure looks, I have a problem with the top & tail of the car, particular the rear, which seems like a bit of a boxy afterthought in terms of the hatch glass.

In terms of the idea, It's not one that offends my sensibilities, Automatic doesn't bother me (Most performance manufacturers include some for of automated gearbox as part of their range) and if you want a faster, harder Ferrari they'll happily sell you a 599 or something.

It's not pretty, but it is the future. I just wished they'd work on getting the proportions right - the wheelbase looks roughly equivalent to a stretch limo.

[BarneyBoy]

Hmm...
mechanically - very interesting, overall body concept - OK (the 2 door shooting brake style), actual styling - disastrous.

And the name?
Stands for Fugly Ferrari doesn't it?

After the very pretty Italia, this is quite a step backwards, isn't it?
Maybe Bangle's doing some consulting these days... ;-)

[thebrochureman]

I agree with Kitdy there should not be a manual in a car like this. I think a Manuals are better in some ways and they are more fun, but in this car i think a manual would be out of place.
Also some manual Gearboxes can’t handle the power and torque of some cars, and other gearboxes handle the power better like the transaxle dual-clutch F1 gearbox. I am not saying all car should not have a manual gearbox but i think they do not belonge on high Performance cars.

[ScionDriver]

I kind of like it. I think it takes the Italia styling into a new direction. I like it. Although I've been known to like boxy and odd looking cars.

[Ferrer]

Ferrer, you said you quite like it though.

What's to like?

This is one of the most unFerrari, and unFerrer, Ferraris.
I am fan of Grand Tourers. I like the combination of comfort and speed. I like the sense of crossing continents, the feeling of moving.

And this as a grand tourer seems pretty much spot on. Big normally aspirated V12 up front for the performance, a very long wheelbase for lineal stability, a body which combines the spirit of the sportscar with the practicality and space of an estate (also a fan of shooting breaks) all are the ingredients of a great grand tourer. Make it rear wheel drive and a manual and it could be almost perfect.

I don't know if it works as a Ferrari or an italian car (said it the first time I replied), but I love the concept behind the car.

[Dino Scuderia]

Enjoy the idea of the V12 before they also cave in to the 4 cyl. turbo 80's era redux.;)

[NSXType-R]

I think I would hate it less if it were marketed as a Lancia.

[Cobrafan427]

Apparently the writers at Yahoo! autos are raving about it

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1694/the-ferrari-of-station-wagons/

Don't know how much credibility they have since they call it a station wagon in the title. I also found what they thought of the rear end interesting haha

[Klemmel]

Hi-res photos.

[Dino Scuderia]

New view.

[pimento]

Top Gear's Paul Horrell popped down to Maranello to check it out (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ferrari-ff-2011-01-25). Tasty bit about the AWD system:


Well, the FF doesn't actually have a normal heavy 4WD system with a centre diff and an extra prop shaft. It has a normal Ferrari configuration, with the drive going from the V12 back to a seven-speed twin-clutch gearbox driving the rear wheels. This is good for weight distribution, and in the dry the FF is as fast around a track as a 599 (it's only a little heavier, yet usefully more powerful). Felisa swears it feels like a proper front-engined RWD V12 Ferrari, too. And he has spoken the truth to me in these matters all the 16 years I've been interviewing him.
Ferrari FF

So what about the four-wheel drive, then? Uniquely, power is also taken off the front of the engine, which is behind the front wheel centres. It's fed to a compact lightweight unit containing a set of clutches that can progressively feed in torque to a tiny integrated gearbox and front diff. It has only two gears, roughly the equivalent of third and seventh in the main box. How can this be? Because the clutches are always slipping under electronic control, and the front tyres would never be able to make use of all the V12's torque in first or second.

What this means is the car's electronics can smoothly dial up a portion of drive to the fronts if they predict a loss of traction at the back. Yes, they're predictive as well as reactive. And they only do this in the road and slippery-road settings of the steering-wheel manettino. In the more hardcore modes, you can still run it as pretty well entirely rear-drive.

[Ferrer]

So if you want rear wheel drive only, why all the complexity, electronics and bits and pieces? Surely it could even lighter and simpler (and therefore better) with two wheel drive hardware only.

[pimento]

Because the actual customers for this car want to be able to use it for skiing holidays.

[csl177]

Because the actual customers for this car want to be able to use it for skiing holidays.
...instead of pedestrian Audis, which Ferrer surely appreciates. :p

[Sledgehammer]

Because the actual customers for this car want to be able to use it for skiing holidays.

Ahh so thats what the front air scoop is for before the door, a sliding slot for your skiis. Car makes much more sense now.

[Ferrer]

...instead of pedestrian Audis, which Ferrer surely appreciates. :p
Ironically my Audi has no traction at all, in first or even second. And if the surface isn't dry, forget it. :o

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Vorsprung Durch Hedgerow.

[thebrochureman]

i would love ferrari to make a 458 with a 599 GTO engine and 4WD, it could probably do 0-60 in under 3 secs, does anyone one like the sound of that

[Ferrer]

i would love ferrari to make a 458 with a 599 GTO engine and 4WD, it could probably do 0-60 in under 3 secs, does anyone one like the sound of that
No.

(5c)

[Commodore GS/E]

No.

(5c)

Wait.
I think it is technically possible because the dct is quite good. Could be hard to bring the power to the ground, tho (and I'm also not sure if the dct could cope with the V12's torque).

[Ferrer]

I'm not arguing if it's technically possible (given enough money, it surely is). Just said that I don't like the sound of that.

[jediali]

interesting....

Funky Four: Explaining the Ferrari FFs Two-Gearbox Four-Wheel-Drive System - Car and Driver Blog (http://blog.caranddriver.com/funky-four-explaining-the-ferrari-ffs-two-gearbox-four-wheel-drive-system/)

[LeonOfTheDead]

458 V12? yes (won't fit)
458 awd? why?!

[pimento]

Reading this (http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ferrari-ff-worlds-first-drive-2011-03-23) about the FF makes me think someone should photoshop it into the catbus from Totoro.

Also, that's a glowing review.

[Man of Steel]

It can accelerate and handle magically, and have loads of grip. But it still is fugly for a Ferrari IMO. Even if I had the money... no.

[Dino Scuderia]

I'm sick of their marketing videos showing the car running through snow and sand...just be honest if you want to build a SUV and build one already.

[henk4]

I'm sick of their marketing videos showing the car running through snow and sand...just be honest if you want to build a SUV and build one already.

do you say that also about a BMW x-drive, a Subaru Legacy or a simple Audi A4 quattro? I think these types of 4WD are the sensible ones, and I think it is a wise decision to stay away from towering SUVs.

[Dino Scuderia]

BMW, Subaru and Audi are not Ferrari!

[henk4]

BMW, Subaru and Audi are not Ferrari!

as if I did not know....

are you also opposing the lambo 4WD systems then? Or is it simply that you do not like the shape of the car?

[Commodore GS/E]

What's the problem with the shape? The back could have been designed in a more, äh, sensible way, but it's still a Ferrari and also a real shooting brake (not simply a four door called so for maketing reasons). I'm not a fan, but respect the decision Ferrari has made. At least nobody can argue that it looks generic.

[Dino Scuderia]

as if I did not know....

are you also opposing the lambo 4WD systems then? Or is it simply that you do not like the shape of the car?

I don't care what Lambo does, my view is that of a long time fan(boy) of the Ferrari marque.

Maybe My thoughts would be different if I liked the car at all... but I don't like it and the AWD is just another change at the brand that is hard to accept...especially tromping around in snow and sand.

Guess I'm just an old phart set in his ways.;)

[henk4]

Guess I'm just an old phart set in his ways.;)

well, it is YOUR analysis......

[pimento]

I don't care what Lambo does, my view is that of a long time fan(boy) of the Ferrari marque.

Maybe My thoughts would be different if I liked the car at all... but I don't like it and the AWD is just another change at the brand that is hard to accept...especially tromping around in snow and sand.

Guess I'm just an old phart set in his ways.;)

Personally I feel the AWD system that has been developed for this car is a pretty natural extension of the e-diff in the 458. It's really nothing like what anyone else is offering, and it makes a car that would be severely hobbled in the wet (TSC killing the power due to wheel spin every 5 seconds) into an all weather speed machine.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Personally I feel the AWD system that has been developed for this car is a pretty natural extension of the e-diff in the 458. It's really nothing like what anyone else is offering, and it makes a car that would be severely hobbled in the wet (TSC killing the power due to wheel spin every 5 seconds) into an all weather speed machine.

My house mate, who worked on the car, told me that there is actually another car company with a similar system, but he couldn't remember which one it was, either did I.

[pimento]

Hmm.. well, it's nothing like anything its competitors have then.. that we can think of. :)

[Ferrer]

as if I did not know....

are you also opposing the lambo 4WD systems then? Or is it simply that you do not like the shape of the car?
Four wheel drive is, 95% of the occasios where it is bought, innecessary.

[henk4]

Four wheel drive is, 95% of the occasios where it is bought, innecessary.

I agree, but to that I would say these 5% might be important, and also it looks like the FF does not suffer from the disadvantages of AWD like we see in other brands, so it sits just there until needed...a bit like ABS.

[McLareN]

Ugh, Ferrari really dropped the ball on this one. Next to this the 612 looks like a masterpiece.

[Ferrer]

I agree, but to that I would say these 5% might be important, and also it looks like the FF does not suffer from the disadvantages of AWD like we see in other brands, so it sits just there until needed...a bit like ABS.
In (most of) those occasions the problem won't be four wheel drive, but ground clearance and inadequate tyres.

[henk4]

In (most of) those occasions the problem won't be four wheel drive, but ground clearance and inadequate tyres.

we got more snow than you obviously.....and ice rain. Ground clearence is hardly a problem, an inclination on a slippery road is....

[Ferrer]

we got more snow than you obviously.....and ice rain. Ground clearence is hardly a problem, an inclination on a slippery road is....
But then again with proper winter tyres you shouldn't need four wheel drive.

[henk4]

But then again with proper winter tyres you shouldn't need four wheel drive.

don't overestimate the capabilities of winter tires, many people here did so this year, and found out that it easily possible to loose a vehicle...and on ice covered roads AWD gives you a chance, but not 100% chance for success....but you have no chance with 2WD only.

[Ferrer]

Well, when we went to Sweden to attend the Swedish Rally our two wheel drive Volvo S80 managed fine, allowing us to even cross a frozen lake.

Mind you it had studded tyres.

[henk4]

Well, when we went to Sweden to attend the Swedish Rally our two wheel drive Volvo S80 managed fine, allowing us to even cross a frozen lake.

Mind you it had studded tyres.

which are not allowed in non-scandinavian countries....

[Ferrer]

If normal winter tyres aren't enough, maybe they should be.

[henk4]

If normal winter tyres aren't enough, maybe they should be.

they once were, but they destroy the roads when there is no snow, and nobody changes his tyres six or seven times per winter.

[Dino Scuderia]

Some people have sense enough not to go driving if conditions are that bad.....you certainly wouldn't be out in your FF.

[henk4]

Some people have sense enough not to go driving if conditions are that bad.....you certainly wouldn't be out in your FF.

no, it is definitely not going to be a popular commuter car....but Switzerland is an important market for Ferrari.

[Dino Scuderia]

Anywhere there is enough money is an important market for Ferrari. ;)

[henk4]

Anywhere there is enough money is an important market for Ferrari. ;)

even for an AWD Ferrari.

[Ferrer]

Interesting that actually only 38% of all new Audis (including SUVs and everything) are four wheel drive Quattro models.

Maybe four wheel drive isn't all that appreciated...

[henk4]

Interesting that actually only 38% of all new Audis (including SUVs and everything) are four wheel drive Quattro models.

Maybe four wheel drive isn't all that appreciated...

erm, what Audi buyers want is mostly the badge and the "interior materials". Perhaps you should check the figures for Subaru also.

[Cyco]

My house mate, who worked on the car, told me that there is actually another car company with a similar system, but he couldn't remember which one it was, either did I.

I believe there where a few Bentley Anarges with a similar system, but I believe it only worked with 1st gear on those.

[Ferrer]

erm, what Audi buyers want is mostly the badge and the "interior materials". Perhaps you should check the figures for Subaru also.
It wouldn't be very representative probably since in many markets Subarus are sold in four wheel drive guise only, so there's no choice to be had.

[LeonOfTheDead]

It wouldn't be very representative probably since in many markets Subarus are sold in four wheel drive guise only, so there's no choice to be had.

IF you buy an Audi (ok, I know you did, but you're... special ;)) you are mainly interested in showing off. AWD is taking money away from xenon lamps, 30" wheels and S-S-S-S-Line kits.

[Rizaven]

Looks Like it could be a slow seller for Ferrari. I have a feeling that the F70 or ENZO II could be a disappointment also, they'll sell every copy but probably at a lower price than they hope. The good news, these two events could possibly force Ferrari to do what it has refused to do for almost 40 years. Revive the Dino name. A 1250kg car powered by 330 HP V6 with a price tag of less than 100,000 Euros would be just right. Still out of my price range, but one hard fall at WALMART or food poisoning at MCdonald's and a good lawyer, and I'm in.

[Revo]

Looks Like it could be a slow seller for Ferrari
The first year production run of the Ferrari FF is already sold out.

That is 800 cars - each with a price tag of €260,000.

[Rizaven]

Get back to me next year, first year production runs for new Ferraris tend to be hot.

As for the F70 with a price over $1 million, I don't know.

[LeonOfTheDead]

Maybe it's a bit less than 800 cars, as I know they developed the car with a target of 3.000 units during the whole life span. There are possibilities about selling 4.000 units according to some projections though.

I can't really see why this should be a slow seller though. Even the 612 was regarded as some sort of a fail, yet it managed to sell all the units they planned. Then again I'd like to know how on Earth you could point the finger against the F150 (code name for the new Enzo) when it's not even out, with its design still evolving.

[derekthetree]

.... Then again I'd like to know how on Earth you could point the finger against the F150 (code name for the new Enzo) when it's not even out, with its design still evolving.

I thought the F150 was the codename for this years F1 car, that is until Ford stepped in with some sort of complaint ;)

[thebrochureman]

The first year production run of the Ferrari FF is already sold out.

That is 800 cars - each with a price tag of €260,000.

I read somewhere that Ferrari asked it's potential customer what they wanted from a new Ferrari, and the Ferrari FF is what people with the money want, i think even if car enthusiast don't like Ferrari FF you still have to give it to Ferrari, I mean they know what they are doing when they sell cars.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I thought the F150 was the codename for this years F1 car, that is until Ford stepped in with some sort of complaint ;)

F150 is the codename if the new supercar, as with F151 being the codename of the FF. Actually I still don't know if its called Ferrari Four or Ferrari FF.
F150th Italia or whatever it is it's just the name of the formula car.

No room for Ford there.:D

[Revo]

I read somewhere that Ferrari asked it's potential customer what they wanted from a new Ferrari, and the Ferrari FF is what people with the money want, i think even if car enthusiast don't like Ferrari FF you still have to give it to Ferrari, I mean they know what they are doing when they sell cars.
Well I'm sure that what customers REALLY want from Ferrari is a huge Stupendously Useless Vehicle.

[Ferrer]

This must be the next best thing then.

[thebrochureman]

Well I'm sure that what customers REALLY want from Ferrari is a huge Stupendously Useless Vehicle.

Maybe they have kids and they wanted a Ferrari they can use everyday, it would be cool if your a kid and your parents own a Ferrari FF and they take you to school everyday in it.

[Badsight]

so there will be an Enzo 2 as well as a F70 ?

will the Enzo 2 come out before 2017, because otherwise wouldnt they kind of cancel each other out ?

[Rizaven]

There's going to be only an F70 no Enzo II, I'm sorry if my previous post was confusing.

[csl177]

Maybe they have kids and they wanted a Ferrari they can use everyday, it would be cool if your a kid and your parents own a Ferrari FF and they take you to school everyday in it.
All road Ferraris are everyday cars. In households of that sort, young Braydon and Isabelle are not likely to be driven to school by their parents. Ferrari know exactly the market for the FF and will do well. Should be a right bargain in 10 years, just as the 456 is now.

Speaking of which...

[pimento]

Always wanted a 456 wagon.

[Ferrer]

Always wanted a 456.

[pimento]

Always wanted a 456.

Well yea, that's a gibbon.

[thebrochureman]

Some new pictures off the net.

351524 351525 351526 351527

[thebrochureman]

More.

351528 351529 351530 351531 351532

[Chunchun]

Awesome, love it. Give me a black one on bronze TE37's with open pipes.

Will do. Your spam sig has been removed.