Hyundai versus Kia

[Kitdy]

So I just read a review of the Kia Optima and I got to thinking about an automotive issue that I have been considering for a few months.

Hyundai Kia Automotive Group are closely affiliated, and share many platforms. Their vehicles are similar in price. Hyundai and Kia both have moved upmarket, with Hyundai moving even further upmarket with the Genesi and Equus. Kia has a bit tigher suspension, and bit harder design language.

Why do these two manufactures exist? They seem to similar to me to make it worthwhile to continue to keep both brands around. Wiki says Hyundai owns only 34.58% of Kia as it stands (they used to own 51%). Is it wise for the group to keep these two brands alive, potentially having them cannibalize each others sales while offering very similar products?

I thought Hyundai would move upmarket of Kia, but Hyundai bought Kia in 1998 and I fail to see much differentiation in their product lines (at least in North America).

On that matter, I also am a bit perplexed that Hyundai has not spun off a luxury brand with a Westernized name to shed themselves of the negative perception that Hyundais still often carry.

What are your thoughts on this matter? Can anyone enlighten me?

[Matra et Alpine]

One theory goes give the customer three choices and if you own two of them you've increased your chances by 50% of winning the deal :)
Works for VAG group and I suspect the model that are using - Seat versus VW models
It seems a uniquley American ( North ) perspective that the name matters.
Only Lexus have chosen to follow suit in Europe and nobody gets fooled over here :)
( well nobody intelligent !! (ducks) )
So perhaps Kia and Hyundai chose to let the product speak and keep their marketing, branding and cosmetic costs down.
my tuppence

[RacingManiac]

For one, Kia's current line up of cars looks better than Hyundai....I've caught myself doing double take to them when I drive by one.

Though really, I still won't buy either...

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Hyundai have the stronger brand of the two, at least in Australia, purely because they've done their best to rise above the cheapy tag. Kia is still a value based brand in the sense they sell transport at a cost, but again, thats quickly changing.

For the most part they share nearly every market sector with similar vehicles, it really does come down to aesthetics and the deal you can get from the dealer on the day.

Hyundai, for the record, are doing their best to shake the Budget tag with the "Equus" model, which doesn't feature a Hyundai logo on the car. From most tests I've read it seems like it's 85% as good as a Lexus for 70% of the cost. So roughly what, 65% as good as a European for 50% of the cost or something? IDK.

[Ferrer]

I thought Hyundai and Kia were a fully integrated industrial group.

Anyway, having direct experience with a modern Hyundai I can say they are good cars and nice allrounders but not the best at anything. They do retain excellent value for money though.

Wheter the space for Hyundai and Kia I don't know, but that hasn't stopped others trying the same plan including VW, GM or Ford.

[vanessalane]

Hyundai has made amazing strides to become a top car maker. They were mediocre but cheap when they first exported in the mid 80s. Since the 90s they have gained considerable quality, and are a highly recommended brand. They have the best warrantee in the industry.

Kia is quite a bit lower in quality. Some of their models aren't bad, but they definitely cut down in quality.

Edit: If you want to advertise, please contact the administarator. Advertising without permission will be rewarded with a ban.

[LeonOfTheDead]

I've recently spoken with a local mechanics, one of those who rate the cars according to their maintenance bills and that kind of stuff. He has quite a good opinion of Hyundai's cars, didn't talk about Kia.

He advised my brother as he is consider a Hyundai Coupe.

I didn't have many concerns about the company tbh. Considering how large and powerful the two brands are now, I'd expect their recent cars to be decent products (generating profits while also gaining new customers) without being a pain to service (spending money and loosing customers).

[thebrochureman]

I think they both make good cars which are excellent value for money. I have been very impressed with the new Hyundai modals, take the Hyundai i10 for example, our friends just brought one in gray and it looks quite smart, when i looked inside i expected it to be very basic because of the price, but in fact it's quite kited out and the trims pretty nice. The Hyundai i10 seems to be great value for money and so are all the other Hyundai modals. I prefer Hyundai over Kia, although not by much.

[Equinox]

I agree that I prefer Hyundai over Kia. I just find Kia's look alot like other brands. I noticed one of their cars look like a Mercedes, and another looks like a Ford (I think it was.) They don't really have their own look or style.

But I would even consider buying a hyundai myself. There are a few models I do like. Having said that, they are far down on my list of potential purchases.

[KenPeterson]

My vote for Hyundai. Because This company has plans in every country of the world,but Kia has very few plans in major country.
I actually don't know about Performance of kia cars.

[ScionDriver]

Both are decent cars, my family owns two Hyundai's and I like them very much. They are very nice cars, durable and cheap, etc. The two products are very similar and I admit Kia has come a long way from the first time I rode in one of their cars, back in like 02-03 and I felt like I was riding in a soda can. But I would still take Hyundai, I think they offer an overall better package that's high quality but you're right, often times I have wondered why both brands exist.

However, the last couple years Kia has struck out on its own with it's designs (The Forte, Sportage and Soul) to differentiate itself from Hyundai, so maybe the two brands can co-exist.

[digitalcraft]

I thought hyundai owned more of kia than that. It actually makes more sense that they both exist because of that. People want to own and control their own thing and have their own vision and all that.

In my mind, the intended market direction (not the mechanics of the business relationship) is akin to Toyota and Scion in market direction. I think what they want ultimately is more like Lexus and Toyota but one step at a time, right.

[FastDriver]

Both are horrible car manufactureres, but if i had to chose it would be the hyundai, at least they make an attempt at a sports car :)

[thebrochureman]

Both are horrible car manufactureres, but if i had to chose it would be the hyundai, at least they make an attempt at a sports car :)

Horrible? How can you say that, yes they don't make high end sports cars like Porsche, but it doesn't mean their horrible. Most people don't what high end sports car, they whant eco car instead and Hyundi are good at making them.

[Dino Scuderia]

Both are horrible car manufactureres, but if i had to chose it would be the hyundai, at least they make an attempt at a sports car :)

Completely uneducated statement.

[thebrochureman]

I totaly agree.

[FastDriver]

Horrible? How can you say that, yes they don't make high end sports cars like Porsche, but it doesn't mean their horrible. Most people don't what high end sports car, they whant eco car instead and Hyundi are good at making them.

Ive never heard of hyundai producing any sort of award winning car, neither the Kia... If you want a car that gives you good gas mileage get a VW passat or a Jetta or a Ford Mondeo or a honda accord. There are just so many more good cars to chose from. Why would you buy a Hyundai or Kia. If it is price, there are plenty more cars that are more reliable. I never see any older hyundai or kias driving around, I figure that is because they have all stopped working? :)

Are you wanting to get a Hyundai or Kia? I don't understand the nature of this thread. Are you really wanting to know wich is more reliable or is it just to see if anyone likes these cars?

[RacingManiac]

Ive never heard of hyundai producing any sort of award winning car,?

I'll just leave this here:

Hyundai Sonata Named 2011 International Car of the Year - TheCarBlogger: Latest Hyundai News Kia News (http://www.thecarblogger.net/2011/01/hyundai-sonata-named-2011-international.html)

Personally I am not a fan, though some of it cultural reason more than anything else. I do know some people who worked in powertrain testing that some of their motor is still really not at industry standard for NVH and power. But for one their car looks better now, so if you see a lot of them on the road you at least won't feel bad looking at them...

[FastDriver]

well they probably won the international car of the year award, because they export to more countries than other cars? I don't know, it is definitely not a top rated manufacturer, there must be some loop holes in there somewhere. Although, I could be wrong. I remember when Hyundai started making cars and they were the biggest pieces of crap ive ever seen. So maybe i have a biased opinion...

[henk4]

well they probably won the international car of the year award, because they export to more countries than other cars? I don't know, it is definitely not a top rated manufacturer, there must be some loop holes in there somewhere. Although, I could be wrong. I remember when Hyundai started making cars and they were the biggest pieces of crap ive ever seen. So maybe i have a biased opinion...

Far Eastern countries are fast learners, the same was said about Japanese cars when they came on the scene, and so is the current case with Chinese cars. I don't think you would would question the quality of Japanese cars these days and Korean cars have come a long way to become their (almost) equal. I'll hope you will still be around here in 10 years time when we will be discussing the next Chinese supercar.

[Matra et Alpine]

FastDriver, you may not know ( being US ) that Kia manufactured the FWD Lotus Elan when Lotus stopped. That was one of the best handling FWD ever and the power unit was an Isuzu. It's silly in today's world to think a nation can't do engienering as well as any other ( if they chose to ) :)

[LeonOfTheDead]

I think I've already posted this information in the past, maybe asnwering to carlgirl?

Both Kia and Hyundai are more than 50 years old, they didn't start making cars in the nineties.

[Ferrer]

Are you wanting to get a Hyundai or Kia?
I want a Genesis Coupé.

[FastDriver]

FastDriver, you may not know ( being US ) that Kia manufactured the FWD Lotus Elan when Lotus stopped. That was one of the best handling FWD ever and the power unit was an Isuzu. It's silly in today's world to think a nation can't do engienering as well as any other ( if they chose to ) :)

actually no, i didn't know that, I just know that the Elan was probably my least favorite Lotus, and I love Lotus! That would explain why it was FWD though. I can believe hyundai and kia are better than they used to be, but I can't say I like any of their car models. We could argue that all day, I tend to be more old school in that manner as i tend to go for cars with more of a reputable history as apposed to newer car makes.

I agree Japanese cars are very reliable. I used to have an old 1988 Subaru Justy 4x4. It was one of the most fun cars to drive and was as reliable as anything ive ever driven.

[clutch-monkey]

i quite like some of hyundai's small car offerings at the moment, has to be better than the shitbox honda jazz.

[Matra et Alpine]

FD, nic eto read you knew of the Elan 100 .... but did you try driving one ?

It STILL stands as the only FWD car that felt like a RWD and was quick.
It needed follow up investment at a time Lotus when were skint :(

As others posted Hyundai and Kia are long term manufacturers with history :) Just not in the US with cars :)

[LeonOfTheDead]

actually no, i didn't know that, I just know that the Elan was probably my least favorite Lotus, and I love Lotus! That would explain why it was FWD though. I can believe hyundai and kia are better than they used to be, but I can't say I like any of their car models. We could argue that all day, I tend to be more old school in that manner as i tend to go for cars with more of a reputable history as apposed to newer car makes.

I agree Japanese cars are very reliable. I used to have an old 1988 Subaru Justy 4x4. It was one of the most fun cars to drive and was as reliable as anything ive ever driven.

Once again, Kia Motors was established in 1944, Hyundai Motor Company in 1967. That's not what I'd call "newer" car makes.

[thebrochureman]

Ive never heard of hyundai producing any sort of award winning car, neither the Kia... If you want a car that gives you good gas mileage get a VW passat or a Jetta or a Ford Mondeo or a honda accord. There are just so many more good cars to chose from. Why would you buy a Hyundai or Kia. If it is price, there are plenty more cars that are more reliable. I never see any older hyundai or kias driving around, I figure that is because they have all stopped working? :)

Are you wanting to get a Hyundai or Kia? I don't understand the nature of this thread. Are you really wanting to know wich is more reliable or is it just to see if anyone likes these cars?

You realy don't see the point do you?

Did i say in my thread i whanted one? NO

Did i say they are the best eco car? NO

The point i was trying to get across was this, you can't say a car manufacture is bad because they don't make sports cars, and yes Hyundi don't make the best eco car but the i10 and i20 aren’t exactly heavy on gas are they?

I may not be the Cleverest on UCP but at least i don't think car manufactures are bad just because they don't make fast cars.

[Kitdy]

I want a Genesis Coupé.

So do I.

As an aside, I have noticed that this conversation is turning into a gangbang.

I am busting out the popcorn and a cigar.

[Ferrer]

The point i was trying to get across was this, you can't say a car manufacture is bad because they don't make sports cars, and yes Hyundi don't make the best eco car but the i10 and i20 aren’t exactly heavy on gas are they?
Actually the base petrol i30 is suprisingly thirsty in demanding use.

[Commodore GS/E]

Actually the base petrol i30 is suprisingly thirsty in demanding use.

So is almost every single base-engined small/compact car. The basic engines mostly have no power and need masses of fuel.

[Ferrer]

So is almost every single base-engined small/compact car. The basic engines mostly have no power and need masses of fuel.
Indeed. It is not a problem of the little Hyundai. Which considering its heritage, is a suprisingly good little car, this.

[Commodore GS/E]

Indeed. It is not a problem of the little Hyundai. Which considering its heritage, is a suprisingly good little car, this.

btw, i know this should belong into the fuel economy thread, but how much does petrol cost where you live right now? We've hit 1.70/l yesterday. At that point, I've decided that it's better to use my bike for everything I have to do in a radius of 10 km. So damn annoying -.-*

[Ferrer]

1,54€/l for 98. Spent 93€ for a full tank on friday.

I'm even considering selling the muscle car for a small diesel hatch.

That's how bad it is. Pieter will be pleased I guess.

[FastDriver]

1,54€/l for 98. Spent 93€ for a full tank on friday.

I'm even considering selling the muscle car for a small diesel hatch.

That's how bad it is. Pieter will be pleased I guess.

If you want fuel economy and still want some h/p get a v8 turbo diesel. you can get 40 mpg with one of those! and if you get a smaller turbo diesel saloon even better!

[LeonOfTheDead]

So do I.

As an aside, I have noticed that this conversation is turning into a gangbang.

I am busting out the popcorn and a cigar.

Mind if I join you?

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/stingrays01/Misc%20Picks%20and%20Avatars/MichaelJacksonEatingPopcorn.gif

[Kitdy]

Mind if I join you?

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk34/stingrays01/Misc%20Picks%20and%20Avatars/MichaelJacksonEatingPopcorn.gif

Bandwidth exceeded! Upgade to Pro today!

[Ferrer]

If you want fuel economy and still want some h/p get a v8 turbo diesel. you can get 40 mpg with one of those! and if you get a smaller turbo diesel saloon even better!
I doubt I can get 6l/100km from those with my use. Well maybe with some turbo diesel saloons. But I probably can't afford those.

[FastDriver]

I doubt I can get 6l/100km from those with my use. Well maybe with some turbo diesel saloons. But I probably can't afford those.

I think the Audi A8 is quoted at 39mpg and that is a pretty powerful engine. you could go smaller than that and still be doing pretty good. unfortunately in america we don't have as many diesel cars to chose from :(

[Fleet 500]

So do I.

As an aside, I have noticed that this conversation is turning into a gangbang.

I am busting out the popcorn and a cigar.
How long have you been smoking cigars?

[Ferrer]

I think the Audi A8 is quoted at 39mpg and that is a pretty powerful engine. you could go smaller than that and still be doing pretty good. unfortunately in america we don't have as many diesel cars to chose from :(
Yes but those are the official manufacturer figures. In real usage they can vary quite a lot.

For instance, even if my Audi has an official worse fuel consumption figure than our Hyundai, with my usage (which is about 70% motorway at 160-170km/h cruising speed, 25% normal roads and 5% city driving) the Audi nets (slitghly) better figures than the Hyundai.

[FastDriver]

Yes but those are the official manufacturer figures. In real usage they can vary quite a lot.

For instance, even if my Audi has an official worse fuel consumption figure than our Hyundai, with my usage (which is about 70% motorway at 160-170km/h cruising speed, 25% normal roads and 5% city driving) the Audi nets (slitghly) better figures than the Hyundai.

I'm going to have to agree with you there. I tested out my '93 bmw 525i which was rated at 26mpg hw

noted: Fuel Economy of the 1993 BMW 525i (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/9890.shtml)

I reset my mpg readout on the car and drove an hour up and down hils with windy roads, through small towns and on county highways and AVERAGED 32.7 mpg. This was with about 10G of petrol in the car. So it can be done. However that was driving the speedlimit and not putting my foot down. My normal average driving MPG for that car was around 22 and that was with driving mostly around town.

[Kitdy]

Yes but those are the official manufacturer figures. In real usage they can vary quite a lot.

For instance, even if my Audi has an official worse fuel consumption figure than our Hyundai, with my usage (which is about 70% motorway at 160-170km/h cruising speed, 25% normal roads and 5% city driving) the Audi nets (slitghly) better figures than the Hyundai.

What are other drivers' speed when you are going 160-170?

[Kitdy]

How long have you been smoking cigars?

Just since I started reading this thread.

[Ferrer]

What are other drivers' speed when you are going 160-170?
Depends. I'm overtaken sometimes. But I would say that the average for cars is about 140km/h.

[kingofthering]

Ive never heard of hyundai producing any sort of award winning car, neither the Kia... If you want a car that gives you good gas mileage get a VW passat or a Jetta or a Ford Mondeo or a honda accord. There are just so many more good cars to chose from. Why would you buy a Hyundai or Kia. If it is price, there are plenty more cars that are more reliable. I never see any older hyundai or kias driving around, I figure that is because they have all stopped working? :)

Are you wanting to get a Hyundai or Kia? I don't understand the nature of this thread. Are you really wanting to know wich is more reliable or is it just to see if anyone likes these cars?

Car and Driver awarded the new Sonata with a spot on the 10 best. :)

[NSXType-R]

I also noticed how similar Kia and Hyundai was as well. Not a good thing in my opinion- look at Ford and Mercury- one of them had to go. GM had issues with repetition in their lineup as well.

If the economy is good (for the Korean companies at least), then that's fine. But if things get rough, one of them will have to go.

[Dino Scuderia]

I also noticed how similar Kia and Hyundai was as well. Not a good thing in my opinion- look at Ford and Mercury- one of them had to go. GM had issues with repetition in their lineup as well.

If the economy is good (for the Korean companies at least), then that's fine. But if things get rough, one of them will have to go.

Not necessarily true.

The losers are Honda and Toyota who are losing sales to them.

[Sid447]

I read somewhere,

that Hyundai and Kia use Mitsubishi power-trains licence-built in S.Korea.

Kia's styling "improvements" are down to the ex-VAG designer they took on a few years ago.

Having both brands (Hyundai & Kia) gives us more choice. Most wouldn't argue about that. :)

[thebrochureman]

My dad was talking to a Hyundi dealer when he was buying his Hyundi iload and the dealer said Hyundi is planing to be bigger than Toyota, eather that or they said they wanted to be the 3rd largest car manifacture. is that possible, it would sertanly be hard. Maybe they plan to be bigger than Toyota in just uk sales.

[FastDriver]

Well just in my experience, Korea doesn't make a lot of quality products. When I look at something and it says made in Korea, im usually not too impressed. But then again, maybe they are really trying to make better quality cars. I wish them luck, but so far all ive seen is plasticy fake looking cars.

[Ferrer]

Well just in my experience, Korea doesn't make a lot of quality products. When I look at something and it says made in Korea, im usually not too impressed. But then again, maybe they are really trying to make better quality cars. I wish them luck, but so far all ive seen is plasticy fake looking cars.
In how many have you sat, lately?

And how many have you driven?

[Commodore GS/E]

Well just in my experience, Korea doesn't make a lot of quality products. When I look at something and it says made in Korea, im usually not too impressed. But then again, maybe they are really trying to make better quality cars. I wish them luck, but so far all ive seen is plasticy fake looking cars.

Hey, they make some good nuclear weapons!




....wait. They don't even know where they are going once they fire them.



...oh, nevermind.

[Kitdy]

In how many have you sat, lately?

And how many have you driven?

I haven't driven any, but the new crop have quite nice interiors and are getting good reviews from the US car magazine establishment.

[FastDriver]

In how many have you sat, lately?

And how many have you driven?

enough... I know Europe has a lot more cars to chose from, but its no secret that in america Kia and Hyundai are the bottom of the barrel cars. They are pretty crappy. No offense if you own one. But i would rather have a toyota, subaru, mitsubishi or honda anyday (if we are talking about the asian car market) why anyone would chose kia or hyundai over those car companys is beyond me...

[Ferrer]

I haven't driven any, but the new crop have quite nice interiors and are getting good reviews from the US car magazine establishment.
In terms of interior I would say they are nearly there, if a bit to asian, if you know what I mean. Too many blinking LEDs abd shiny screens. As if it was a Casio factory in the 80's.

In terms of handling and performance they've got nothing to envy, this side of any mainstream european manufacturer. I'd even say they can teach a lesson or two to some of them.

but its no secret that in america Kia and Hyundai are the bottom of the barrel cars.
Ah yes, I forgot. Never get in the way of known facts.

Like all Alfa Romeos are unreliable. Or all Audis are the best cars to have ever graced mother earth.

[FastDriver]

In terms of interior I would say they are nearly there, if a bit to asian, if you know what I mean. Too many blinking LEDs abd shiny screens. As if it was a Casio factory in the 80's.

In terms of handling and performance they've got nothing to envy, this side of any mainstream european manufacturer. I'd even say they can teach a lesson or two to some of them.

Ah yes, I forgot. Never get in the way of known facts.

Like all Alfa Romeos are unreliable. Or all Audis are the best cars to have ever graced mother earth.

well i wouldn't know about that. we don't get Alfa Romeos here in the Colonies, but Audis are very good cars. I can't argue with that. I wouldn't say they are the best, it is hard to pick a best car. but they definately have some high tech features :)

[Kitdy]

well i wouldn't know about that. we don't get Alfa Romeos here in the Colonies, but Audis are very good cars. I can't argue with that. I wouldn't say they are the best, it is hard to pick a best car. but they definately have some high tech features :)

He was annoyed before, now he's gonna be angry.

[FastDriver]

well i just quit smoking 3 days ago, so lets have a go at it! :p

[Ferrer]

He was annoyed before, now he's gonna be angry.
It would probably be going too much off topic.

We can discuss Audi's undeniable prowess at lenght in anothe thread if anyone's interested...

[RacingManiac]

To be continually OT, Audi are laws of physic challenged....

Right now I think Koreans are still playing the bang for the buck side of the car buying logic than outright quality. They offer a robust warranty plan with good financial incentive plus good trim level vs their competitors. Though at the end of the day you are still net a lower level car, but you paid a lot less for it. NVH and refinement still somewhat suspect with them, but the typical response is "you can't argue with the price". Sooner or later though they will shift to the quality side of the equation...

Aside from some of the industry chit-chat about the engine benchmarked performance below that of the competitor, and some bad experience from my friend who have bought newer ones in the recent years with lemon issue. In general they are pretty good for the money, especially with their warranty. But I have preconceived national prejudice against Korean products....so.....

[Ferrer]

Well the i30 has a fully independent rear suspension, something whih can't be said from Fiat, Renault, Honda or Toyota to name just a few. Also, their base 1.4 litre engine is more powerful than Fiat's, Volkswagen's or Seat's.

Maybe it's an Euro thing, but we certainly aren't getting less.

Some further OT, the Audi thing isn't only defying the laws of physics, but those of common sense as well...

[FastDriver]

well im not interested in it at all, you are the one who brought it up for some reason...

[FastDriver]

Well the i30 has a fully independent rear suspension, something whih can't be said from Fiat, Renault, Honda or Toyota to name just a few. Also, their base 1.4 litre engine is more powerful than Fiat's, Volkswagen's or Seat's.

Maybe it's an Euro thing, but we certainly aren't getting less.

Some further OT, the Audi thing isn't only defying the laws of physics, but those of common sense as well...

we don't get fiats or renaults here, toyota and honda are much better quality though. the new Honda Civic is an excellent car and so is the Toyota FJ cruiser, just to name a few...

[clutch-monkey]

i own a honda jazz and i have no idea how you can say they are much better quality than the equivalent hyundai I30 etc. especially with the CVT gearboxes grenading themselves at 100k.

[FastDriver]

what is a honda jazz? is that like the Honda fit? im not really interested in those super compact cars, like smaller than a ford focus, or honda civic, they are just so small its really rediculous and they become impractical for daily use.

[f6fhellcat13]

we don't get fiats or renaults here, toyota and honda are much better quality though. the new Honda Civic is an excellent car and so is the Toyota FJ cruiser, just to name a few...

Ours have IRS, though, and most Toyota products the world over are just about irrelevant to gearheads, though they are by no means objectively "bad" cars.

I have heard that the Renaultsport Meganes are able to use their torsion beams quite well, but it does strike me as odd that the Yuroes aren't using IRS, with Honda even taking it away from one generation of (Euro)Civic to the next. Next thing you know we Americans, will be driving around in featherweight twin-turbo four-pot FWD Mustangs and all of Europe will be propelled by old tractor-engined buckboards.

[Ferrer]

well im not interested in it at all, you are the one who brought it up for some reason...
I think you are not familiarised with sarcasm.

what is a honda jazz? is that like the Honda fit? im not really interested in those super compact cars, like smaller than a ford focus, or honda civic, they are just so small its really rediculous and they become impractical for daily use.
How can a car than can easily cruise at 100-110mph (and feels stable at those speeds), tops out at around 120mph and you can have 500 miles from each tank, be impractical?

(Not the Jazz, one from its class)

There's more than massive V8s, and wide straight roads out there.

[FastDriver]

I think you are not familiarised with sarcasm.

How can a car than can easily cruise at 100-110mph (and feels stable at those speeds), tops out at around 120mph and you can have 500 miles from each tank, be impractical?

(Not the Jazz, one from its class)

There's more than massive V8s, and wide straight roads out there.

because the backseats are too small for people with legs and there is no room in the boot for anything more than a handbag... why buy are care that small with back seats, you would be better off getting a lotus elise. At least you would look good and still get good gas mileage...

[Ferrer]

Really? Are you serious?

[FastDriver]

yeah. why not? besides, if you really are looking to save money. why not just buy a used car that you really like. the money you save on the actually car price would outweigh the gas you would save i think.

[Ferrer]

I am living proof that you do not save money with a used car.

Or you could buy a second hand commie hatchback. Which means we are back where we started.

As I said other parts of the world have other requirements when it comes to cars.

[FastDriver]

well lets see, i guess i would be living proof that you DO save money haha! I bought my 1993 BMW 525i for $4500 and had it for 3 years. it gave me no problems and i averaged 25mpg on a 20gal tank, so that means i could go 500 miles on a tank. and it was comfortable to drive long distances with good power from the strait 6 and room for passengers and 2 weeks worth of groceries :) Did regular oil change and filter changes and never had a problem with it.

[Ferrer]

The commie hatchback could easily see at least a 50% increase in mileage. Probably more.

[FastDriver]

The commie hatchback could easily see at least a 50% increase in mileage. Probably more.

I have no idea what you are talking about?

[pimento]

because the backseats are too small for people with legs and there is no room in the boot for anything more than a handbag... why buy are care that small with back seats, you would be better off getting a lotus elise. At least you would look good and still get good gas mileage...

You can fit a 4ft high potted plant in a Jazz (yes, same car as a Fit) standing up in the back. They'll also do high speed cruising if you want to (not my first choice for a road trip, obv.) and they are fine for around the town driving. My friend('s parents) had one, it suited the purpose just fine. We also fit five people in there adequately, rear leg room was fine for around the town stuff.

I appreciate they're not your cup of tea, they're not something I lust after either, but they have a place in the market and for some they're are the perfect vehicle. Personally I'd rather your old BMW too, I had an '85 E30 323i that was wonderful.. though legroom in the back was a little lacking. :p

[FastDriver]

I just don't see the appeal to cheap small cars with limited features and uncomfortable seating. Although I understand what you are saying. some people really just want a small cheap car that doesn't cost much to repair or maintain and still have being fairly newer. I have always prefered superior built quality if i have to buy an older model that is fine :)

[RacingManiac]

Ours have IRS, though, and most Toyota products the world over are just about irrelevant to gearheads, though they are by no means objectively "bad" cars.

I have heard that the Renaultsport Meganes are able to use their torsion beams quite well, but it does strike me as odd that the Yuroes aren't using IRS, with Honda even taking it away from one generation of (Euro)Civic to the next. Next thing you know we Americans, will be driving around in featherweight twin-turbo four-pot FWD Mustangs and all of Europe will be propelled by old tractor-engined buckboards.

Beam or no beam its all on how you tune it. They take up less space and allow for a flatter cargo floor. If you've seen how some the Peugeot IRS rear(407, one we have at work, in US) are laid out you can see why beams are so appealing. The way the 407 rear was set the shock had horrid motion ratio and the kinematic is rather "intriguing". At that point you might as well go with a beam set up and cost less money....

On really sporty models(like Renaultsport) IMO they can get away with more things since you are compromising more ride quality for out and out performance....on FWD car you don't want the rear to do that much work anyway...

Civic Type R JDM vs EU spec is kinda interesting since its rare you have the chance to compare the same car with different setup. The JDM model was superior but by all account that was much more hardcore car....

[Ferrer]

You can fit a 4ft high potted plant in a Jazz (yes, same car as a Fit) standing up in the back. They'll also do high speed cruising if you want to (not my first choice for a road trip, obv.) and they are fine for around the town driving. My friend('s parents) had one, it suited the purpose just fine. We also fit five people in there adequately, rear leg room was fine for around the town stuff.

I appreciate they're not your cup of tea, they're not something I lust after either, but they have a place in the market and for some they're are the perfect vehicle. Personally I'd rather your old BMW too, I had an '85 E30 323i that was wonderful.. though legroom in the back was a little lacking. :p
I'd happily have a Ford Puma or a Mini, you know... ;)

[clutch-monkey]

what is a honda jazz? is that like the Honda fit? im not really interested in those super compact cars, like smaller than a ford focus, or honda civic, they are just so small its really rediculous and they become impractical for daily use.

the honda jazz/fit is the same size as the corolla and civic of ten years ago..

[pimento]

I'd happily have a Ford Puma or a Mini, you know... ;)

Also good. Well, the Mini. Never considered a Pooma.

[Ferrer]

Also good. Well, the Mini. Never considered a Pooma.
Well it's pretty much like the Mini. Only the interior disintegrates after 10 minutes of ownership.

Which automatically makes it the Ford Puma Superleggera.

Probably.

[henk4]

Well it's pretty much like the Mini. Only the interior disintegrates after 10 minutes of ownership.

Which automatically makes it the Ford Puma Superleggera.

Probably.

Ask Drakkie :D

[pimento]

Ya, they weren't available here anyway.

[clutch-monkey]

i swear i've seen puma's around? or is that the cougar

[pimento]

Cougars we had, but we had the [kia] festiva, the Laser and the Laser Lynx instead of the Fiesta and Pooma.

I think we've covered this before somewhere.. :p

[Matra et Alpine]

I just know that the Elan was probably my least favorite Lotus, and I love Lotus! That would explain why it was FWD though.
Talk about co-incidence :)
Check out what was competing at this weekends hillclimb ......

[FastDriver]

the honda jazz/fit is the same size as the corolla and civic of ten years ago..

yeah i remember growing up in the 80s how small they were :P my mom had a dodge omni when I was 4 years old, hit a dear and smashed the front end in real good :P

[drakkie]

Well it's pretty much like the Mini. Only the interior disintegrates after 10 minutes of ownership.

Which automatically makes it the Ford Puma Superleggera.

Probably.

And I won't even start on the weight reduction *cough* rust making various bits of the car disappear..:rolleyes:

Good reason to save up money for my dream car. Hopefully it will be a Elise Mk.1... Some day..

[thebrochureman]

About reliabilaty, well both Hyundai and kia have great warrantys so they must be reliable because to give warrantys like that they have to test them and be confident that their reliable.

[thebrochureman]

My dad has just brought a Hyundai van so now i kind of have some personal experience, i mean i haven’t driven my dads Hyundai van, but i have been a passenger and I’ve asked him what is like to drive.

So if their car are like their vans this is what i think because the Hyundai iload is basicaly a Hyundai i800.

They feel very well built, very nice inside, the vans very nice inside especialy for a van. For example, it has air con, ipod conectivaty, you can control a number of things by the stearing wheel, and lot more. not bad for a van. So i think very highly of Hyundai car and vans.

[Commodore GS/E]

My dad has just brought a Hyundai van so now i kind of have some personal experience, i mean i haven’t driven my dads Hyundai van, but i have been a passenger and I’ve asked him what is like to drive.

So if their car are like their vans this is what i think because the Hyundai iload is basicaly a Hyundai i800.

They feel very well built, very nice inside, the vans very nice inside especialy for a van. For example, it has air con, ipod conectivaty, you can control a number of things by the stearing wheel, and lot more. not bad for a van. So i think very highly of Hyundai car and vans.
Is this identical to the Hyundai H1?
However, I'm not sure it could top the VW T6 or the Mercedes Viano (I know that the price of those is quite a bit higher, but still).

[thebrochureman]

Is this identical to the Hyundai H1?
However, I'm not sure it could top the VW T6 or the Mercedes Viano (I know that the price of those is quite a bit higher, but still).

What do you mean top other vans, do you mean space price specs, what do you mean? I didn't even know there was a VW T6 out yet, i havn't senn one, is their one out? does it look like a face lifted T5, if so iv'e seen a few. The iload is a very good van trust me, My granddad used to drive van for a living before he retired about two weeks ago, so he's driven a few van and he said the iload is a great van compaired to the vans he's drove. Also the van dealer love them, there just starting to get a bit more populaer in the UK, iv'e only seen 2 other iloads in my area. I know they big in other countrys. Have a good look for yourself on the net at pictures inside and out and specs, you may just be impreased.

About the VW T5 well they have problems, the cylinder head goes and there so expensive for what they are.

As for the Merc vans, they rust like hell, well in the uk they do.

[FastDriver]

America doesn't even see any of these funny vans! sometimes I wish i lived in Brittain...

[thebrochureman]

^^^ Yea the chose of cars/vans are so much better. Unless you love american cars.

[pimento]

Of the vans I've driven the Merc Sprinter is probably the stand out, but the 12 seater Hiace I drove a month ago was surprisingly great on crap roads while fully loaded. It also has ipod connectivity and air-con btw, they're not unusual in vans nowadays.

[csl177]

Completely uneducated statement.
Perhaps the understatement of the month. :)

I want a Genesis Coupé.

So do I.
Exceptional taste, gentlemen. Drove one a couple of months ago, very impressive. Destroys some perceptions left over from the '90s. :cool:

If you want fuel economy and still want some h/p get a v8 turbo diesel. you can get 40 mpg with one of those! and if you get a smaller turbo diesel saloon even better!
Please, go on... do tell us more. :rolleyes:

As an aside, I have noticed that this conversation is turning into a gangbang.

I am busting out the popcorn and a cigar.
Sounds good. Should I bring over some herb to blunt it and a couple of ice cold 40's? :cool:

Depends. I'm overtaken sometimes. But I would say that the average for cars is about 140km/h.
160-170 Seems about right. Most traffic travels at 85% the speed appropriate for conditions... the other 15% drive accordingly. ;)

[csl177]

Oh yeah: funny vans in the USA include the Merc Sprinter (great trucks for light/medium duty), Suzuki and Daihatsu both sell mini trucks in some states (often used by municipalities as service vehicles) and of course the Ford Transit. Do wish we could have some of the European vans, maybe Fiat will bring the Multipla back since the 500 is already here.

[kingofthering]

Oh yeah: funny vans in the USA include the Merc Sprinter (great trucks for light/medium duty), Suzuki and Daihatsu both sell mini trucks in some states (often used by municipalities as service vehicles) and of course the Ford Transit. Do wish we could have some of the European vans, maybe Fiat will bring the Multipla back since the 500 is already here.

There's also a fleet of Chinese-made kei-vans floating around my school for light-duty work. Frankly, I think they need more of these as I saw somebody in an Econoline tear a wooden bollard in half squeezing through a space less than the width of two cyclists side-by-side.

[csl177]

^^^ Yikes. I need to take a photo of the mini garbage trucklets used on Palm Beach. They are a hoot.

[Kitdy]

Sounds good. Should I bring over some herb to blunt it and a couple of ice cold 40's? :cool:

Don't bring your garbage Yankee mind altering substances to this flame fest.

[Ferrer]

160-170 Seems about right. Most traffic travels at 85% the speed appropriate for conditions... the other 15% drive accordingly. ;)
There was study which said that the AP-7 motorway (the one on which I drive 99% of the time) had an average speed of 134km/h. I don't know if that includes lorries and buses, but certainly it's a fast motorway.

There's a mix of Audis, Mercs and Bimmers, with Volvos and Saabs popular too. At 160km/h I get overtaken often...

[csl177]

Don't bring your garbage Yankee mind altering substances to this flame fest.

Flamefest? Still waiting for the heat. You're no fun anymore, brah. Besides, I bought the weed in BC. :p

[Commodore GS/E]

What do you mean top other vans, do you mean space price specs, what do you mean? I didn't even know there was a VW T6 out yet, i havn't senn one, is their one out? does it look like a face lifted T5, if so iv'e seen a few. The iload is a very good van trust me, My granddad used to drive van for a living before he retired about two weeks ago, so he's driven a few van and he said the iload is a great van compaired to the vans he's drove. Also the van dealer love them, there just starting to get a bit more populaer in the UK, iv'e only seen 2 other iloads in my area. I know they big in other countrys. Have a good look for yourself on the net at pictures inside and out and specs, you may just be impreased.

About the VW T5 well they have problems, the cylinder head goes and there so expensive for what they are.

As for the Merc vans, they rust like hell, well in the uk they do.


Sorry... VW confused me with them telling that the facelifted T5 wqas an "all-new model"...
As for the problems of the Merc with rust, I havent heard anything like that until now. A good friend's parents have a '06 Viano which has no problems at all, so I can only speak of my own experiences.

[Cyco]

The Mercs are good vans, until the front motor mount dies, and the engine clonks into the fire wall every time you accelerate.

My GF drives a Kia Pregio regularly, and like every other one I've seen the side panel inserts are rusting. It also sufferes from massive wind noise it highway speeds.

A brief time as a passenger in an iLoad impressed me.

[thebrochureman]

Sorry... VW confused me with them telling that the facelifted T5 wqas an "all-new model"...
As for the problems of the Merc with rust, I havent heard anything like that until now. A good friend's parents have a '06 Viano which has no problems at all, so I can only speak of my own experiences.

Merc vans are genraly good, when i was talking about rust i ment their sprinter van, the Viano don't have such a problam. I think their newer van are better. Merc vans are good but the price is so high, you paying for the merc badge and that's bad for a van.

Maby the rust problam is just in the UK, it rains alot.