what car was the first?

[FastDriver]

what was the first production car to have the following:

electronic anti lock breaks
airbags
3 point safety belt
satellite navigation

yes, there was one car that did it all first. what was it?

[acfsambo]

The 1st to have all 4 in one car? Or the first for all of them but over different years?

[FastDriver]

the same car had all of those before any other production car :)

[culver]

I'm waiting to here the answer and also waiting to call BS when I do ;)

[f6fhellcat13]

Skoda Fabia 1.6 TDi.

EDIT: Though the Contie did have a stupendous safety record...

[culver]

Well since the Old's Toronado was the first car with airbags for sale to the public and it isn't on the list I'm going to vote none.

[FastDriver]

Well since the Old's Toronado was the first car with airbags for sale to the public and it isn't on the list I'm going to vote none.

sorry, you're wrong.

In 1981, Mercedes-Benz introduced the airbag in Germany as an option on its high-end S-Class (W126). In the Mercedes system, the sensors would automatically pre-tension the seat belts to reduce occupant's motion on impact (now a common feature), and then deploy the airbag on impact. This integrated the seat belts and airbag into a restraint system, rather than the airbag being considered an alternative to the seat belt.

[FastDriver]

Numerous technological innovations have been introduced on Mercedes-Benz automobiles throughout the many years of their production, including:
The internal combustion engined automobile was developed independently by Benz and Daimler & Maybach in 1886
Daimler invented the honeycomb radiator of the type still used on all water-cooled vehicles today
Daimler invented the float carburetor which was used until replaced by fuel injection
The "drop chassis"—the car originally designated the "Mercedes" by Daimler was also the first car with a modern configuration, having the carriage lowered and set between the front and rear wheels, with a front engine and powered rear wheels. All earlier cars were "horseless carriages", which had high centres of gravity and various engine/drive-train configurations
The first passenger road car to have brakes on all four wheels (1924)[57]
The "safety cage" or "safety cell" construction with front and rear crumple zones was first developed by Mercedes-Benz in 1951. This is considered by many as the most important innovation in automobile construction from a safety standpoint[58][verification needed]
In 1959, Mercedes-Benz patented a device that prevents drive wheels from spinning by intervening at the engine, transmission, or brakes. In 1987, Mercedes-Benz applied its patent by introducing a traction control system that worked under both braking and acceleration
Traction control and airbags in the European market, were Mercedes-Benz innovations.[citation needed] These technologies were introduced in 1986, and 1980 respectively
Mercedes-Benz was the first to introduce pre-tensioners to seat belts on the 1981 S-Class. In the event of a crash, a pre-tensioner will tighten the belt instantaneously, removing any 'slack' in the belt, which prevents the occupant from jerking forward in a crash
In September 2003, Mercedes-Benz introduced the world's first seven-speed automatic transmission called '7G-Tronic'
Electronic Stability Programme (ESP), brake assist,[59] and many other types of safety equipment were all developed, tested, and implemented into passenger cars—first—by Mercedes-Benz. Mercedes-Benz has not made a large fuss about its innovations, and has even licensed them for use by competitors—in the name of improving automobile and passenger safety. As a result, crumple zones and anti-lock brakes (ABS) are now standard on all modern vehicles.[58][verification needed]


Mercedes M156 engine
The most powerful naturally aspirated eight cylinder engine in the world is the Mercedes-AMG, 6208 cc M156 V8 engine at 85 PS per litre. The V8 engine is badged '63 AMG', and replaced the '55 AMG' M113 engine in most models. The M156 engine produces up to 391 kW (532 PS; 524 bhp), and although some models using this engine do have this output (such as the S63 and CL63 AMGs), specific output varies slightly across other models in the range[60]
The (W211) E320 CDI which has a variable geometry turbocharger (VTG) 2.8 litre V6 common rail diesel engine (producing 224-horsepower), set three world endurance records. It covered 100,000 miles (160,000 km) in a record time, with an average speed of 224.823 kilometres per hour (139.70 mph). Three identical cars did the endurance run (one set above record) and the other two cars set world records for time taken to cover 100,000 kilometres (62,137 mi) and 50,000 miles (80,000 km) respectively. After all three cars had completed the run, their combined distance was 300,000 miles (480,000 km) (all records were FIA approved).[61]
Mercedes-Benz pioneered a system called Pre-Safe to detect an imminent crash—and prepares the car's safety systems to respond optimally. It also calculates the optimal braking force required to avoid an accident in emergency situations, and makes it immediately available for when the driver depresses the brake pedal. Occupants are also prepared by tightening the seat belt, closing the sunroof and windows, and moving the seats into the optimal position.
Half a century of vehicle safety innovation helped win Mercedes-Benz the Safety Award at the 2007 What car? Award

[culver]

sorry, you're wrong.

In 1981, Mercedes-Benz introduced the airbag in Germany as an option on its high-end S-Class (W126). In the Mercedes system, the sensors would automatically pre-tension the seat belts to reduce occupant's motion on impact (now a common feature), and then deploy the airbag on impact. This integrated the seat belts and airbag into a restraint system, rather than the airbag being considered an alternative to the seat belt.

No, you are wrong. The 1973 Toronado was the first car for sale with an airbag.
The History of Airbags (http://inventors.about.com/od/astartinventions/a/air_bags.htm)

The Volvo PV 544 was the first car with a 3 point belt.

I'm not sure what your question was meant to ask but for all the things the S-class did introduce, it was not the first with 3-point belts or airbags. Certianly the 1981 was not the first with 3 point belts. We had 3 point belts in a '78 Ford truck.

[culver]

FastDriver,
Please do not copy paste other's work. That is a copyright violation and generally not good form.

[FastDriver]

FastDriver,
Please do not copy paste other's work. That is a copyright violation and generally not good form.

I didn't copy anyones work. everything i posted was quoted directly from wikipedia, which isn't actually copywrited to begin with...

Airbag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbag#Rebirth:_supplemental_restraint)

here is the link. Yes the united states made some failed attempts at the airbag, but the Mercedes S class implimented the first suplimental restraint system. The united states version of the airbag as you can read ended with 7 known fatalities suspected to be caused by the airbag.

you were close, though that car wasn't on the list. I think the overwhelming vote for the Mercedes S class proves it to be the winner in having the first practical airbag system.

[clutch-monkey]

The 1973, Oldsmobile Toronado was the first car with a passenger air bag intended for sale to the public.
whelp, can't argue with that.

[culver]

I didn't copy anyones work. everything i posted was quoted directly from wikipedia, which isn't actually copywrited to begin with...

Airbag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbag#Rebirth:_supplemental_restraint)

here is the link. Yes the united states made some failed attempts at the airbag, but the Mercedes S class implimented the first suplimental restraint system. The united states version of the airbag as you can read ended with 7 known fatalities suspected to be caused by the airbag.

you were close, though that car wasn't on the list. I think the overwhelming vote for the Mercedes S class proves it to be the winner in having the first practical airbag system.

Your new here so we will forgive you for being wrong. You asked which car was first with airbags... that would be the Oldsmobile. You asked which was first with 3 point belts. That would be Volvo. I suspect you are also wrong about ABS. The question is what qualifies as "electronic" ABS. Both GM and I think Jenson had ABS before the 1980s.

The overwhelming vote proves nothing since this isn't a polularity contest. Even though the wiki entry isn't copyrighted it is against forum rules, you did read them when you just signed up right, to post work of others as your own without citations or links. You didn't do that.

Please don't act like a 15 year old on the computer. That is a poor way to be part of the community here.

[FastDriver]

well i think you misunderstood, but that is ok. The question was for which car model was to be the first for each of those safety features. The Mercedes was the only one that qualified from the choices. You were right about the volvo but the Mercedes was the first to have the 3 point BIS (belt in seat) instead of the belt being attached to the B piller.

anyway it was just supposed to be a fun little quiz, not to be turned into a serious matter. so I am not going to argue with you about it.

[culver]

well i think you misunderstood, but that is ok. The question was for which car model was to be the first for each of those safety features. The Mercedes was the only one that qualified from the choices. You were right about the volvo but the Mercedes was the first to have the 3 point BIS (belt in seat) instead of the belt being attached to the B piller.

anyway it was just supposed to be a fun little quiz, not to be turned into a serious matter. so I am not going to argue with you about it.

No, you didn't ask the question you wanted to ask. You didn't ask which was the first to have all 4. You asked which was the first to have an airbag. It wasn't the MB. You asked which was first to have 3 point belts. It wasn't the MB. If you wanted MB to be the answer you should have asked the correct question. We already had one newbe in love with random questions and poles. Please don't be another.

[Ferrer]

Skoda Fabia 1.6 TDi.
Indeed.

Also has other industry firsts, such as wheels and an engine.

Probably.

[henk4]

No, you didn't ask the question you wanted to ask. You didn't ask which was the first to have all 4. You asked which was the first to have an airbag. It wasn't the MB. You asked which was first to have 3 point belts. It wasn't the MB. If you wanted MB to be the answer you should have asked the correct question. We already had one newbe in love with random questions and poles. Please don't be another.

it is debatable.
The final line in post #1 was: Yes there was a car that did it ALL first, so maybe that has caused some misunderstanding. And having read an article about the 6.9 Benz recently I would have known the answer right away if the question had posed while I was awake...
Personally the 6.9 is an all time favourite, because it is the only German car ever that came up with a suitable suspension for long distance travelling, but they had to borrow it from the French. Also Rolls Royce did that once.

[henk4]

Indeed.

Also has other industry firsts, such as wheels and an engine.

Probably.

Yesterday I read that Audi invented the TDi engine...in an Audi pressrelease about the engine of the new R18.

[aiasib]

Will you guys decide on something so I know which one to vote for already?!? :P

[henk4]

Will you guys decide on something so I know which one to vote for already?!? :P


just vote for me, I even have much more safety features than the ones mentiond in the poll.

[FastDriver]

Will you guys decide on something so I know which one to vote for already?!? :P

LoL!!! that was the funniest thing ive heard all day :)

[:Exige:]

FastDriver, Please do not copy paste other's work. That is a copyright violation and generally not good form.
It doesn't quite work like that.

No, you didn't ask the question you wanted to ask. You didn't ask which was the first to have all 4.

yes, there was one car that did it all first. what was it?
Looks like he did, actually.

Although I'm not particularly interested in poll threads like these, I think you were more than a bit unfair on FastDriver.

</Bureaucracy>

[culver]

Not really. He said what was the first car to have A, B, C, and D. He claimed one was first to have each technology. I asked if he meant the first to have all 4. He said:
"well i think you misunderstood, but that is ok. The question was for which car model was to be the first for each of those safety features. "
Since the question was "each" then the MB was not the correct answer. It was the closest of the list but not right.
Also, pasting wiki articles as if they are your own work is bad form. It's not a copyright violation as the material wasn't protected but it isn't good practice.

[henk4]

it takes some time to adapt to a proper automotive internet forum....:D

[Matra et Alpine]

Also, pasting wiki articles as if they are your own work is bad form. It's not a copyright violation as the material wasn't protected but it isn't good practice. a common error with "copyleft" materials.
It IS still copyright but license is given to distrbute as long as conditions are met. These usually require listing of the contirbutors to the item and for wiki is best done by including the link to the wiki page(s).

But I'm with your first statement as the more powerful one .... it's just bad to use other info without making it clear it's borrowed.

[culver]

a common error with "copyleft" materials.
It IS still copyright but license is given to distrbute as long as conditions are met. These usually require listing of the contirbutors to the item and for wiki is best done by including the link to the wiki page(s).

But I'm with your first statement as the more powerful one .... it's just bad to use other info without making it clear it's borrowed.

Man the left is ALWAYS mess'n with things!

[Matra et Alpine]

rofl :)

[:Exige:]

Also, pasting wiki articles as if they are your own work is bad form. It's not a copyright violation as the material wasn't protected but it isn't good practice.
Bad form? This is a discussion forum, not a dissertation. We could spend all day correcting each others grammar, but we don't.

I see little reason why FastDriver's excerpt from Wikipedia would not be considered under Fair Use (what you and I call Fair Dealing here in the UK) with regards to Copyright Law.

Indeed if it's violating copyright law to the extent that someone has to make a new member feel less welcome, why hasn't the violation been deleted? ;)

[culver]

Bad form? This is a discussion forum, not a dissertation. We could spend all day correcting each others grammar, but we don't.

I see little reason why FastDriver's excerpt from Wikipedia would not be considered under Fair Use (what you and I call Fair Dealing here in the UK) with regards to Copyright Law.

Indeed if it's violating copyright law to the extent that someone has to make a new member feel less welcome, why hasn't the violation been deleted? ;)

If Matra is correct (and I think he is) the material is copyrighted. The copyright is such that use only needs to include a citation which was later added. Grammar is one of those things that bugs people but I try not to be too critical. I often type, post, then read what I thought I was typing... not cool.

I was actually more critical of Fast for a few other reasons. First, when you get a new poster who quickly posts a number of short new threads and quick blurbs on several topics it looks like we have a novice who just wants to make noise vs actually talk and learn. I am rather knee jerk to assume that sort of thing will be followed by a signature line including links to Nieke shoes and discount auto parts. We have had more than our fair share of one time spam posters around here.

I will also admit the new guy didn't improve my view of him when he told me I was wrong about the answers to his questions. He apparently wanted to trumpet the innovations of Mercedes (and they have a lot) but two out of the four and possibly one or both of the other two innovations were out on other brands before Mercedes. When I pointed this out I was told that I was wrong and I had misunderstood the question. Again, not a great way for a new guy to make a good impression. I didn't see I was being treated with any great respect so I was blunt in response.

FastDriver is certainly welcome here as it doesn't look like he is trying to troll or spam. However, I would suggest he spend a bit more time learning and being involved in discussions rather that telling people they are wrong when they correct his misinformation.

[Matra et Alpine]

yeah as said, the copyright isn't the big thing with that post for me.
As usual "defence" on copyright is not benefitting and nobody will check --- all of which is true UNTIL someone decides otherwise and then you're screwed :)

It was the blatant cut/paste and no acknowledgement :(

[LeonOfTheDead]

yeah as said, the copyright isn't the big thing with that post for me.
As usual "defence" on copyright is not benefitting and nobody will check --- all of which is true UNTIL someone decides otherwise and then you're screwed :)

It was the blatant cut/paste and no acknowledgement :(

Agreed.

I can definitely see culver's point of view and agree with him as well.

[henk4]

Agreed.

I can definitely see culver's point of view and agree with him as well.

I suggest we put this discussion to rest and store it in the file: Lessons learned.

[culver]

So now that I have chastised FastDriver, I hope he takes this as just a bump in the road and joins in the talks here. Remember, even some of us who know we are right all the time have been proven wrong... damn it.

[culver]

BTW, it appears that Chrysler was the first to have electronic ABS with GM and Nissan nipping at their heals and all well before the 1980s.
Anti-lock braking system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system)

The automotive navigation page seems to mention a number of different technologies. If Wiki is to be believed (and I have used it liberally in the past) then Olds was actually the first with GPS satellite navigation in a production car. Mitsubishi and Pioneer claim earlier non-GPS but satellite based systems.

So in the end I will go with none of the above because it appears Mercedes wasn't first with any of the four technologies. Given that the Olds with GPS nav would have had airbags, likely ABS and certainly, by law, 3 point belts it appears the winner is the Oldsmobile 88!

What do I win?

Automotive navigation system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Ferrer]

Yesterday I read that Audi invented the TDi engine...in an Audi pressrelease about the engine of the new R18.
They are wrong.

Skoda invented the TDi engine. And high performance rear engined cars. Amongs other things. Like doors and windows.

Or something.

[culver]

So really, what do I win for finding the first car with all four technologies?
:D

[kingofthering]

The automotive navigation page seems to mention a number of different technologies. If Wiki is to be believed (and I have used it liberally in the past) then Olds was actually the first with GPS satellite navigation in a production car. Mitsubishi and Pioneer claim earlier non-GPS but satellite based systems.

So in the end I will go with none of the above because it appears Mercedes wasn't first with any of the four technologies. Given that the Olds with GPS nav would have had airbags, likely ABS and certainly, by law, 3 point belts it appears the winner is the Oldsmobile 88!

What do I win?


Honda actually made a mechanically-based navigation system.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/11/11-30-07-hondanav.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro_Gyrocator

Of course, the 1981 Accord probably didn't have ABS. Or airbags.

edit - But the 1990 Eunos Cosmo not only came with what looks like an airbag, it also had ABS, three-point-belts, AND GPS navigation. So do I win? :D

[culver]

I named the Olds system as first not because it I thought it was the first car nav system or the first installed in a car. In this case it appears to be the first factory installed system. I wonder what FastDriver was specifically thinking of when he started the pole. Was it first car with a GPS nav screen (I could believe the GM system didn't have a traditional color LCD nav screen)?

FastDriver,
What specifics were you thinking with this question? You said MB S-class. Was this based on something you had read or some details such as the S-class likely being first with airbags in Europe? Looking at the Olds system it wasn't exactly better integrated than most aftermarket systems so it would be reasonable to claim it was basically a factory installed after market system.

[FastDriver]

I was basing this off of wikipedia which as i know is not entirely reliiable, so I guess it was kind of a gray area with many possible answers. So i deemed this thread closed. except i cant close it. so its still open :p

[culver]

I was basing this off of wikipedia which as i know is not entirely reliiable, so I guess it was kind of a gray area with many possible answers. So i deemed this thread closed. except i cant close it. so its still open :p

Which systems did you have specifically in mind? The S-class probably was the first if we narrow some of the criteria. Like I said with the nav system, it appears that the Olds system wasn't better integrated than an aftermarket solution so perhaps it shouldn't count.

[FastDriver]

Which systems did you have specifically in mind? The S-class probably was the first if we narrow some of the criteria. Like I said with the nav system, it appears that the Olds system wasn't better integrated than an aftermarket solution so perhaps it shouldn't count.

Perhaps you're correct, but I'm over it. I posted the part that I was reading, but there are a lot of cars out there, so maybe thier information isn't exactly acurate.

[culver]

Yes, but it would have been nice if you apologized for telling me I was wrong rather than stating that you were over it ;)

[FastDriver]

oh ok, well i appologize for dismissing your answer so quickly. That was my bad :)

[culver]

oh ok, well i appologize for dismissing your answer so quickly. That was my bad :)

ok :)

[henk4]

now that the peace treaty has been officially signed, do we want to leave the thread open or shall I close it?

[LeonOfTheDead]

Can't we just wait for the proverbial new user to revive it in some 5 years? :)

[csl177]

now that the peace treaty has been officially signed, do we want to leave the thread open or shall I close it?


Can't we just wait for the proverbial new user to revive it in some 5 years? :)

Needs another poll to decide the outcome. :rolleyes:

[henk4]

Needs another poll to decide the outcome. :rolleyes:

never underestimate the power of real decision making....:)

[Matra et Alpine]

Please no more on voting ..... the UK is bogged down in a slagging match over whether an AV ( Alternative Vote ) system is better than the traditional "first past the post" for British elections. PEOPLE ... throwing darts at a board woudl be better than the mockery of an "election process" Britain has now. Thank goodness Scotland got the chance to use it's own, come on rest of Britain ... catch up :)

[kingofthering]

Needs another poll to decide the outcome. :rolleyes:

We'll first create a ten-person committee to decide whether we'll need a committee to decide if we'll need another poll - something like the E.U. - ineffectual at everything except spending money.

[Matra et Alpine]

ah now what do you mean when you say "EU" ?
European Parliament gets a nod to your POV.
BUT, the underlying co-operation that the EU created has given a sterling (!) effort to recovery and future protection after the last american-debt triggered world crisis.
UNLESS you watch Glenn Beck and then it's a communist ridden, anti competitive, anti-christ ( well his variant of "christ" anyway ) :) :) :)

So please let's not go too far off topic with gov bashing ... it's hard enough swinging the hammer on our own ones without aiming at others :)

[pimento]

UNLESS you watch Glenn Beck and then it's a communist ridden, anti competitive, anti-christ ( well his variant of "christ" anyway ) :) :) :)


It's ok, his show has been canned now.

[Matra et Alpine]

it has ? how did he respond to THAT ?
Thoug he seemed to cleverly build up his own "brand" so no doubt guaranteed personal appearance money for decades :)

[pimento]

I can't find the article now, nor can I remember where I read it.. I hope it wasn't just a dream. The crux was basically that now that the economy is recovering and things are generally getting better there's really no place for the doomongering and so forth.

[cowboy14]

I forgot ...... any one of sedan

[culver]

cowboy14,
Please stop you useless posting. If you are going to actually contribute fine but if you are just here to spam the site later on please leave now.