Top gear - how many are left?

[Matra et Alpine]

Latest Top Gear mentioned this new capability in the UK and it makes interesting reading for your favourite model.

Exploreing can be fun ... like the near 1500 E-types ADDED since 1994.
All those barn finds and imports as prices climbed no doubt :)

http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/


Sad to see how many other A610 owners have them off road along with mine :( But on the plus, means we still have the vast majority of those RHD available !!

http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/renault_a610_turbo

Matra not so good, 2 of those are mine. Didnt' realise we were down to such low numbers ... shame it doesnt reflect in the prices :)

http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/simca_matra_bagheera_s

[thebrochureman]

^^^ What a cool website.

[RacingManiac]

So how many of the E-type left showed up in that episode....lol

[Matra et Alpine]

not nearly as many as planned for the big 50th anniversary gathering at Silverstone Classic (22-24 July).

Expecting over 1000 ..... going to make for a great pic, tho' hard pressed to match Subaru's tear-inducing image for Colin ....

http://autoworld.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/subaru-impreza-colin-mcrae-honor-parade-img_4.jpg

So hoping they dont just park 1000 E-types in a parallel lines :)

[coolieman1220]

The Marauder would climb over those Etypes! haha Great episode!

Bobsled chick was very cute too!

[Matra et Alpine]

Bobsled chick was very cute too!
Noticable that her outfit was not quite so tight or revealing from her competition days :) Think they toned it down a bit for public viewing for Top Gear :)

[TVR IS KING]

Fantastic picture Matra :) And a very interesting site, shame it's only the UK.

[Ferrer]

Bobsled chick was very cute too!
Indeed. Highlight of the episode.

Of the series too, probably.

17x01 was at most average, though.

[Matra et Alpine]

For all those still fantasising about British women bobsledders :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYIxwM7GVik

[kingofthering]

What's the difference between licensed and SORN'd? I see some cars with more licensed than SORN'd - does licensed mean that it's just registered while SORN'd mean it's actually road-legal?

[csl177]

^^^ SORN means "Statutory Off Road Notification", a notice requirement in some countries (and US states) that the car isn't road legal, unlicensed and/or uninsured, failed required safety inspections, scrapped, etc. It pertains to all cars but in the case of collectible autos it can be a pain to reverse, as in the case of long-term restorations, cars that have been off the road for years or repaired wrecks. In Florida (and several other states) a car can't be legally scrapped without a clear title, but thankfully returning an old car to the road isn't as hard as it is in places like the UK or Germany. I'm sure Matra will fill us in on the UK statutes, but I think "getting SORNed" is the act of re-licensing a car for the road.

Cool site, BTW... wish that was a world-wide database! :)

[Matra et Alpine]

Other way round csl :)

You "SORN" a car when you are NOT re-taxing it.
We pay an annual road fund licence ( none of which goes to fund very much to do with roads ! ).
Each year you must ba the road tax.
As some were avoiding paying they needed a way for there to be a means of knowing if a car still existed or not. EVEN though you are required to inform when a car is scrapped. but I digress ...... so in their infinite(ly small) wisdom they created the SORN system.

So each year for all of my cars and bikes I either pay road tax OR declare it as SORN.
They've not yet got round to charging us to SORN a car but no doubt are considering it :(

So when you come to want to put the car back on the road you pay the road tax and it automaticaly is "un-SORNed"

It's a pain in the arse if you hav ea car collection as each year you have to repeat this. Failure to do so results in an IMMEDIATE FINE. I've been twice charged and being me opted NOT to pay the fine and instead demand my day in court. SO far never paid any monies nor had the pleasure of exposing the scam in court. The statistics show it hasn't reducde the number of cars driving illegaly on the roads in the UK !!

Sorry, you got me on to one of my "SORN rants". Bloody idiots we have in government who cant do joined up thinking - of all parties :( I had the Quantum clamped when I was rebuildng a wall at the rear of my property so moved the cars out of the way to allow access. Short on hard standing space, I put the car outside. It was declared SORN. BUT you're not supposed to put it on the road while it's SORNed. It was outside for all of 6 hours and in that time a van drove past with an automatic number plate recognition camera and triggered the clamp-nazis. In the meantime lots of crimes were ACTUALLY happening in the area !!! I really wanted that one to go to court, but they backed down :(

See, you shouldn't get me started on SORN :)

So summary, SORN is a way of telling the authorities you have a car that MAY some day be on the roads. IF you dont SORN a car then if you rebuild a classic and then try to register it they may chose NOT to give you the original registration plate. Another piece of nonsense. We are a nation of car collectors and govermnents over the years seem to be trying to find ways to piss us off so we scrap them and buy new ones so they can get the VAT on new car purchases :) Me ? CYNICAL ?? never :)

[drakkie]

For the Dutchie's:
Wagenparkstatistieken - Auto's - Bedrijfswagens - Aanhangwagens en Opleggers - Motorfietsen (http://www.raivereniging.nl/markt-informatie/statistieken/wagenparkstatistieken.aspx)

Here you can find how many of a certain model are still on our roads :)

Surprisingly this shows only 17% of vehicles are a diesel! I was expecting a bit more.

[henk4]

For the Dutchie's:
Wagenparkstatistieken - Auto's - Bedrijfswagens - Aanhangwagens en Opleggers - Motorfietsen (http://www.raivereniging.nl/markt-informatie/statistieken/wagenparkstatistieken.aspx)

Here you can find how many of a certain model are still on our roads :)

Surprisingly this shows only 17% of vehicles are a diesel! I was expecting a bit more.

Rather superficial where it concerns the older cars. Check Citroen, the most common type is the Citroen Citroen, which probably includes all other models non elsewhere specified.

[csl177]

Other way round csl :)

You "SORN" a car when you are NOT re-taxing it.

So summary, SORN is a way of telling the authorities you have a car that MAY some day be on the roads. IF you dont SORN a car then if you rebuild a classic and then try to register it they may chose NOT to give you the original registration plate. Another piece of nonsense. We are a nation of car collectors and govermnents over the years seem to be trying to find ways to piss us off so we scrap them and buy new ones so they can get the VAT on new car purchases :) Me ? CYNICAL ?? never :)

Thanks Matra. :) So... it's the exact opposite of our requirements. Insane. We only pay to RE license... and booting?!? That's beyond comprehension!

[pimento]

I'm pretty sure they pay to keep things licensed too csl.

[csl177]

Understood... but we don't. A car can sit years without paying a dime in taxes, if scrapped it needs papers, only costs when relicensing for the road.

[pimento]

Oh, I thought that once declared SORN there was not something to pay until putting it back on the road.

Or do you mean that once it's licensed it's licensed and you don't have to pay yearly renewals? I'm a little slow.. it's 2:45am. Late night working sucks, especially when you're just sitting around waiting to see if something goes wrong...

[csl177]

No worries, do that bleary thing too often myself. We forget there's a buncha time zones involved. :)

In some US states there's something similar to a SORN document, but in most there's not. Once a car is licensed, yearly renewal is required while it's on the road, usually along with proof of insurance and in some states, annual safety inspecton. But you can park it a decade if you want with no fees to the state; when recommissioning just pay for safety inspection (if required) and fresh tag & insurance.

In some states if you want to scrap a car, proof of ownership is required to do the deed.

[Matra et Alpine]

Sorry guys in my rant I think I over simplified.
It jsut pisses me off every time have to jump through their hoops.

SORN doesn't cost anything, BUT you have to complete the procedure each year.
IF you dont then you get hit with a heavy fine.
They do send a reminder, but if you dont receive it or they dont receive the completed form in return then you get fined.
At least these last couple of years you can reSORN online.
However, many classic cars are in the garages of elderly folks without computers or perfect memories and this is a system to heavily penalise the innocent mistake.

You’ll get an automatic penalty of £80.
You could also get a County Court Judgment against you, and be fined a minimum of £1,000.
The maximum penalty for making a false SORN, when the vehicle is actually used or kept on a public road, is £5,000 and imprisonment.
They threatened me with the latter, despite the clear evidence that the car was not "being used" but had simply been placed there while moving other vehicles for access.
The law in Britain has NO leaway anymore and the car owner is just an easy source of enforcable immoral fines :(

So you best not forget to SORN one of the classic cars in the barn or it's £80 per car and no option but to pay ( or threaten legal action as I did, but most wont bother, they'll pay up )

There are 5000 people employed in the centre that handle car registrations in the UK and frankly this looks like an idea to keep them in jobs as it hasn't actually stopped unlicensed cars on the road !! If they stopped nonsense like this we woudlnt' need to employ lots of people to monitor it. Oops, I've swtiched in to rant mode again :)

So summary.
Each year in the UK you must pay the "road fund license" for a car before it can be taken on the road. This can be as high as £450.
If you own a car but dont want to use it - or are restoring it - then you must complete a SORN form at the time the road license expires and every year thereafter.
Failure to SORN a car WILL lead to a fine if it is on the road for ANY reason - even if it has no engine or wheels !!!
Forgetting to SORN a car and then SORNing it later can lead to a fine for having failed to SORN it in the past.

THey are now talking about more severe punishment and the possible removal and crushing of a vehicle.

[Matra et Alpine]

Bobsled chick was very cute too!
With clothes on ..... http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2011/06/27/behind-the-scenes-james-and-amy-williams/

[Kitdy]

No worries, do that bleary thing too often myself. We forget there's a buncha time zones involved. :)

In some US states there's something similar to a SORN document, but in most there's not. Once a car is licensed, yearly renewal is required while it's on the road, usually along with proof of insurance and in some states, annual safety inspecton. But you can park it a decade if you want with no fees to the state; when recommissioning just pay for safety inspection (if required) and fresh tag & insurance.

In some states if you want to scrap a car, proof of ownership is required to do the deed.

Speaking more generally, the myriad of differences in state laws must make it very frustrating to be a person who consistently moves state-to-state in the US.

[Matra et Alpine]

^^^ Not just USA :(
Off to drive Europe and tyres are well within legal UK limits but on the limit for Germany.
So off to buy 4 new tyres --- DAMN, that's less £££ on wine to come home with :)

( Will hold on to old ones though and use them in a drift/fun event next time :) )