Oh noes, RX-8 gone the way of Matra...

[RacingManiac]

Mazda stops RX-8 production (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/22/mazda-stops-rx-8-production/)

Doesn't really do much for me, the car was meant to be a showcase for the new gen of Rotary Engine, and in that light it wasn't that compelling since the car neither has the power or the fuel consumption....While the car clearly is a handler, more likely than not a equivalent piston engine car can probably deliver similar or better result as well....

But still, a shame to see another piece of automotive diversity sidelined....

[NSXType-R]

No offense, but it really wasn't a direct RX-7 replacement, which would have been the smarter direction in my opinion.

Therefore, it wasn't really all that special for me.

Let's hope they keep the rotary engine alive.

[RacingManiac]

And I(nor the article) said it was....it was supposed to be a showcase for Renesis though, which is supposed to solve the issue with the older design, but it really didn't do much in that respect...

[demonrunning07]

From all accounts I've heard, the RX8 was a fun little car but I think it lacked the "flair" it would have needed to draw stupid people away from buying the Mustang. It was definitely the "thinking man's" car of it's class.

I don't know if anyone remembers the Kabura concept from 2006 but that is the kind of car that I wish someone would build. Small and light with a gasoline-powered 2L I4 turning the rear wheels. As long as they had kept it simple, it would have been cheap and light. And as long as they had kept it light, it would have been economical. It was supposed to be a midpoint between the Miata and the RX8 but it probably would have cannibalized them both. I think the RX8 would have been a lot more appealing if it had been more simple, like this or the RX7. But instead they tried to make it do too much and appeal to too wide of an audience.

[Kitdy]

From all accounts I've heard, the RX8 was a fun little car but I think it lacked the "flair" it would have needed to draw stupid people away from buying the Mustang. It was definitely the "thinking man's" car of it's class.

In Canada, a V6 Mustang with 300 hp is 23k, and an RX-8 is 43k.

Do the math: is the RX-8 20k more of a car than a Mustang? I think not.

[clutch-monkey]

i'd like the development of rotaries to continue. direct injection etc maybe.
there's nothing quite like a quad rotor at WOT...

[RacingManiac]

Mazda can probably build a RWD sportscar based on the RX8 chassis with their 2.3 liter Turbo from MS3 and it'll probably be a cheaper and faster car. But obviously that won't be a "RX" anymore.

[csl177]

From all accounts I've heard, the RX8 was a fun little car but I think it lacked the "flair" it would have needed to draw stupid people away from buying the Mustang. It was definitely the "thinking man's" car of it's class.

But instead they tried to make it do too much and appeal to too wide of an audience.
Too wide an audience while also being the thinking man's car? Seems contradictory. See below:

In Canada, a V6 Mustang with 300 hp is 23k, and an RX-8 is 43k.

Do the math: is the RX-8 20k more of a car than a Mustang? I think not.
Exactly.

Mazda can probably build a RWD sportscar based on the RX8 chassis with their 2.3 liter Turbo from MS3 and it'll probably be a cheaper and faster car. But obviously that won't be a "RX" anymore.
This. So, pulled because rotaries are thirsty or simply STILL not as widely accepted as traditional ICEs? Can't be cost, gotta be cheaper to tool and build rotaries, they have far fewer parts. It would be a shame if they became another footnote to automotive history, but credit Mazda with going further with the Dr. Wankle's invention than anyone else.

[RacingManiac]

Rotary may have less parts, but they don't have the economy of scale.....the 2.3 can be used in 3, 6 and probably many other cars. The Renesis will always only be in low volume sportscar, its characteristic pretty much unsuitable to anything else.....

It may well be just the automotive version of Darwinism at work....

[f6fhellcat13]

In Canada, a V6 Mustang with 300 hp is 23k, and an RX-8 is 43k.

Do the math: is the RX-8 20k more of a car than a Mustang? I think not.

That's just you guys getting screwed again. The top of the line R3 is $32,000 and the base is $27,000 here. V6 Mustangs are $22,000, V8s are $30,000, and Bosses are $40,000. Nissan Zs start at $31,000, which pretty much takes cars of Japanese sportscar enthusiasts.
So with its questionable aesthetics and ill-defined market segment (read: compromised design), there was no way the Rex would ever do well.

I cannot say that I'll miss the RX-8 dearly, but I will the rotary.

[csl177]

That's sort of my point... being less fuel efficient was just one issue that kept rotaries from being built in the same numbers, and therefore less profitable. It's had 50 years in production and has plenty of fans (many here, myself too), so Darwinism in manufacturing maybe, but enthusiasts will keep them around.

I was disapointed when the old RX7 (last gen) was killed, and always wished Mazda had powered the MX5 with a rotary. If they drop it entirely, cult status remains.

[RacingManiac]

I guess fact is that the real advantage of rotary, being small and compact(I am assuming light too), is more or less being masked in the car like RX8. A car with the "practical" intention, made to be bigger than it needs to be for a real sportscar, and saddled with a normally aspirated version of a less than powerful rotary, you just get a car that is not really that much of a stand out in a really crowded market....

As mentioned though if it were in a Miata, I think it'll be a more promising use since it probably is smaller than the current 4 banger in that car, whilst being more powerful, and probably even torquier too....

How are Renesis in long run though? Apex seal still a must replace item?

[f6fhellcat13]

That's sort of my point... being less fuel efficient was just one issue that kept rotaries from being built in the same numbers, and therefore less profitable. It's had 50 years in production and has plenty of fans (many here, myself too), so Darwinism in manufacturing maybe, but enthusiasts will keep them around.

I was disapointed when the old RX7 (last gen) was killed, and always wished Mazda had powered the MX5 with a rotary. If they drop it entirely, cult status remains.
I think killing off the RX-7 as a part of the Japanese turn-of-the-millenium fun-car purge was the lethal blow. By havig a pure sportscar, Mazda needn't have worried themselves with all the idiosyncrasies of the rotary engie. The people buying 7s wanted a sportscar and knew the high maintenance came with the territory. Making the RX-8 "family friendly" and ugly as sin turned away that core rotard contingency by watering the concept down. I agree about the Miata and think that basically all carnuts have bee wanting a RX-5 since the Miata debuted. Maybe that will be the vehicle for the rotary to hide from this economic hardship in, but something tells me it will not.

On a more lighthearted note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxsY4lEGRBI

[Kitdy]

Mazda can probably build a RWD sportscar based on the RX8 chassis with their 2.3 liter Turbo from MS3 and it'll probably be a cheaper and faster car. But obviously that won't be a "RX" anymore.

I would say that potentially the reason why the RX-8 failed was because of its engine. Sticking a rotary in an MX-5 would be tinkering with something that works well as it stands; not a good idea to me.

It is preferable that Mazda make a pure sportscar - one with a rotary would be ideal, if not only for the variety - but the market may well not support it at this time.

Maybe something like what RM mentioned above would be a reasonable solution.

Yes, I also resent that heterogeneity is being lost.

[csl177]

Kitdy, I meant I was disappointed that Mazda didn't build the MX5 as the RX5 in the first place. Hairdresser's car my ass. ;)

[TVR IS KING]

I would say that potentially the reason why the RX-8 failed
Did it fail? It seems to have sold quite well, it lasted a solid 8 years, and received praise for being a good-handling sports car with better-than-most space.

I'm seeing this as not the death of the RX-8, but the start of the RX-9. I mean, the RX-8 was getting dated, it's been around for a while, it's fair that they're ready to replace it.

[Ferrer]

I doubt Mazda is dropping the rotary engine completely. They have invested too much money and time in it to actually cancel the programme for good. Maybe they are taking and hiatus to work on better solutions for oil and fuel consumptions, but even when they have made alternative fuel versions (hydrogen), it's hard to believe the rotary is disappeasing from Mazda. It'd be like Audi dropping four wheel drive or Toyota to stop making hybrid cars.

Furthermore, IIRC at least some of the extended range Audi hybrids had rotaries as the ICE generator.

[demonrunning07]

Too wide an audience while also being the thinking man's car? Seems contradictory.

I guess I should clarify what I meant by "thinking man's car" as opposed to "stupid Mustang owners". In my opinion, the Mustang's largest market is fat baby-boomers who want a retro-styled "sports" car that's quick in a straight line and has all the conveniences of a modern plastic car. And it's worked very well for Ford because that's a huge demographic of car-buyers. The RX8, I feel, was designed for a young college professor with one young child who wants a sporty car for the weekends that he can still live with on the weekdays. A much smaller demographic. But some people still bought the RX8. Why? And how many of these RX8 owners actually use those goofy rear doors to drop their kids off at soccer practice? I think that the majority of RX8 drivers--save for the rotary cultists and the college professor--bought it because it was the lightest and purest sportscar in it's class. Underneath the questionable attempt to give it mass-appeal, there was still a great sportscar and the smart people saw that. These, in my opinion, are the thinking men.

And an I4 sports coupe like the Kabura obviously would not be an RX. It would just be a damn good car: the lightweight FR layout of the RX8 but cheaper and with all the other advantages that have made piston engines "catch on" so universally.

Sorry for rambling.

[Brix]

Am i the only one remembering and noticing this?:
http://www.mazda.com/mazdaspirit/rotary/hre/about/index.html
http://www.hydrogen-motors.com/Mazda/images/im/Mazda%20RX-8.jpg
I don't think we will see rotaries go away, the fact that you can keep the same basic engine design, and just add hydrogen instead of petrol gives Rotaries a huge advantage over new designed engine concepts.
Besides, Mazda is doing well, but need more public attention, and the RX8 didn't do that. I believe we might see a new green RX7, to compete with the rumored Green NSX replacement, and what Toyota/Lexus come up with instead of the Supra.

[crisis]

As a big cubic inch Luddite I personally am not sad. I remember being regaled by rotary fanboys over the endless advantages of these motors. The only place I saw them work well was in small cars on amateur racing circuits. Putting that engine in a car like the RX-8 is pretty much trying to find an excuse to use it. How good would that body have been with a V6?

[Lukeno52]

Terrible, as the entire car would've been taller, heavier and wouldn't be as sweet handling.

[crisis]

Terrible, as the entire car would've been taller, heavier and wouldn't be as sweet handling.
Yeah coz this things horrendous...

http://www.google.com.au/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://cdn.cbsi.com.au/story_media/339292933/nissan-370z_2.jpg&sa=X&ei=dYFTTuOnJuSTmQXyxJHqDw&ved=0CAUQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNE3wp8S2aUddH1667I4drER3ISQEw

[Dino Scuderia]

RX-8 overall pretty cool car, different.

But as has been discussed before when the Renesis was introduced it was already obsolete...terrible fuel mileage, terrible emissions(especially if modded). Completely going in reverse of the trend.

Apparently the rotary works well in a hydrogen config but that's still beyond the horizon.

[thebrochureman]

It's a shame, but i'm not going to miss it. It didn't do anything for me.

[RacingManiac]

Apparently the rotary works well in a hydrogen config but that's still beyond the horizon.

And that is still ignoring the point of Hydrogen will never be a viable "Fuel", not to mention burning it is probably not that efficient as a mean to utilize it as a energy storage medium....

[Brix]

And that is still ignoring the point of Hydrogen will never be a viable "Fuel", not to mention burning it is probably not that efficient as a mean to utilize it as a energy storage medium....
Well that is a whole other discussion.
But if emission free energy production is available (ei. wind, solar, nuclear) Hydrogen is a good way to store energy as it will never fade.

[Dino Scuderia]

Hydrogen will never be a viable "Fuel"

Can we say 'never'?

[RacingManiac]

Yes we can, since regardless what you do you are storing energy that you get from something else to make it....

[Brix]

Yes we can, since regardless what you do you are storing energy that you get from something else to make it....
That still make it a very good alternative for Oil based fuel.

Again, as long the energy used to produce hydrogen is green, hydrogen is a key to a green future.

One must remember that Hydrogen is the only alternative to oil fuel where you don't need to do major changes to the current Fuel station system.

Besides, all energy is just stored or transferred. Hydrogen is just the only source where we actually "produce" the storing, instead of just harvesting it.

But this is side tracking.
Hydrogen is a big part of the future, otherwise there wouldn't be as much development in the area as there is.

[RacingManiac]

One must remember that Hydrogen is the only alternative to oil fuel where you don't need to do major changes to the current Fuel station system.



Storing hydrogen is by no means easy, in either gaseous form or liquid. Requires very high pressure container and difficult seal design. It is by no means practical at all.....and if you think gasoline is volatile then hydrogen is on a different level....

Hydrogen is also not anywhere close to being near term. Fuel cell or hydrogen combustion car have been around for a long time without any real realworld results....

I think some of these discussion probably is better move to "State of Cars" thread...

[demonrunning07]

I don't think there is anything special about a rotary engine that makes it better for converting to hydrogen. I know that other companies made piston-engines that ran on hydrogen. And hydrogen is NOT a viable alternative to fossil fuels. Sure, it burns clean but at this point it is perhaps more expensive and more harmful to the environment to produce than gasoline. And it's a lot harder to transport and store and even more unstable because it is a gas and has to be stored under high pressure.

[Matra et Alpine]

First to put hydrogen aside .... cost effective extraction and a SERIOUS distribution/delivery network is a major need before anyone will advance on delivering real world hydrogen. THe former is making advances. The other "safety" thinking has been debunked. It can be safe ... even if anti-hydrogen thinkers will insist in showing videos of the Hindenburg :)

To come back to this "news" , it was 11 months ago that production of RHD for the UK ended. So we're used to the "shock". Can't meet one of the emissions targets despite the engine being LOTS better in the other nasty emissions. The legal need to use catalytic convertor was the REAL killer for the rotary. On short journeys it has to through lots of excess fuel to get the cat up to temp. If they'd been allowed NON cat solutino then it woudl have had a better chance. Another example of bad laws over riding good engineering !

Regardign putting other engines into the RX-8 it just woudlnt' ahve worked. THe engine is tiny and VERY low down and well back. So giving a perfect 50/50 weight balance and one of the best handling cars available --- IF you have the courage to use the engine to give the speeds IN the corner. Problem is most folsk who aspire to being "fast" achieve it by useing throttle on exit rather than brain on entry to corners. Thus BS about no torque being the big problem.

Cost of the motor is quite high because the seal fitting is done by hand. If it had had the investment over decades and the manufacturing scale of a piston engine then I think that may well have been addresssed. THey also stuck for too long with the same size of rotor and chamber. The 16X engine is bigger and more torque/power but shelved as petrol prices went ballistic. However you cant get away that the Renesis engine IS thirsty ... but is consistent. So the 40mpg you CAN get out of a Nissan 350/70 is impressive but drops to less than 15 if you cane it. My RX-8 gives about 17-18mpg of 95 octane in competition ..... shame it gives me on average 20mpg the rest of the week :(

It's a car that some either love or hate but most of all HAS to be shown how to drive to get the most fun out of it. Those folks that get that chance then usually want one !!

Re the MX-5 no, dont put a rotary in it in production. It's a copy of an Elan. Keep it simple.

PS: It was NEVER meant as a "showcase for engine" car. It was a novel approach to provide a sports 4 adult seat coupe.

[Rasmus]

I guess I should clarify what I meant by "thinking man's car" as opposed to "stupid Mustang owners". In my opinion, the Mustang's largest market is fat baby-boomers who want a retro-styled "sports" car that's quick in a straight line and has all the conveniences of a modern plastic car.

Excuse me?

[RacingManiac]

I guess I should clarify what I meant by "thinking man's car" as opposed to "stupid Mustang owners". In my opinion, the Mustang's largest market is fat baby-boomers who want a retro-styled "sports" car that's quick in a straight line and has all the conveniences of a modern plastic car.


You know A 2011 V6 Mustang is 4 sec faster around Virginia International Raceway than a RX-8 R3 right? Its also faster than a STI, Evo 9 MR, 135i, S2000, my car...etc...

All for $22k, I think a thinking man, who cares about his wallet and speed, will probably go for that....

[Matra et Alpine]

All about tracks. VIR has big straights where the more power will win over the others hadnling on the corners.
I can attest the Mustang is fast having matched laps with him on the Nurburgring GP track and as we expected the RX-8 was faster through corners but lost ot all again up the hill and along the main straight.

Prices in the US are difficutl to do comparisons as it does seem some models in the US are extremely skewed in prcing and I wonder if anyone ever does a profit by model comparison ??

[Dino Scuderia]

You know A 2011 V6 Mustang is 4 sec faster around Virginia International Raceway than a RX-8 R3 right? Its also faster than a STI, Evo 9 MR, 135i, S2000, my car...etc...

All for $22k, I think a thinking man, who cares about his wallet and speed, will probably go for that....

The Camaro beat the RX-8 in the rain on VIR in Grand Am...never thought that would happen.

[RacingManiac]

Big straights or not, it still needs to slow down, brake for corners, take off again...and this is still a V6 Mustang, a car that used to be exclusive to high school cheerleaders.....

Hardly a car implied for "stupid owners", and only quick in straight lines...

[Kitdy]

Did it fail? It seems to have sold quite well, it lasted a solid 8 years, and received praise for being a good-handling sports car with better-than-most space.

I'm seeing this as not the death of the RX-8, but the start of the RX-9. I mean, the RX-8 was getting dated, it's been around for a while, it's fair that they're ready to replace it.

I believe sales have been terrible in the past few years, and if you add to that the fact that the rotary engine program may be dead... Then yes, I think you could call it a failure. The RX-8 also never lived up to the standards set by its predecessor. That being said, I think it is a cool car.


Prices in the US are difficutl to do comparisons as it does seem some models in the US are extremely skewed in prcing and I wonder if anyone ever does a profit by model comparison ??

The RX-8 was not selling, and has been cancelled. The Mustang sells well and is cheap.

Certainly far from conclusive evidence, but a potential big hint.

[Kitdy]

Big straights or not, it still needs to slow down, brake for corners, take off again...and this is still a V6 Mustang, a car that used to be exclusive to high school cheerleaders.....

Hardly a car implied for "stupid owners", and only quick in straight lines...

So why'd you buy a GTI then?.. Heh.

[PRC777]

Haha. No love for the Challenger? :)

As for the RX-8; I guess there just wasn't a market. The styling is questionable, and there were also mixed reviews for it. They've still kept the MPV (now MAZDA5) and I'm surprised that, as well as all vans, are still in the (U.S.) market today.

[RacingManiac]

So why'd you buy a GTI then?.. Heh.

I am not a thinking man....lol

Mustang is a big car, I was not after one....I'd admit its tempting though....The biggest problem aside from size, is that in the end you'll always want the V8 if you buy the V6...

But that TV ad is sweet though one with the dark grey with the black wheel, just a good looking car...

[f6fhellcat13]

So why'd you buy a GTI then?.. Heh.

Could you live with yourself driving a V6 Mustang?

EDIT: Like he said.

[clutch-monkey]

i think i'm going to buy a bent RX8 and stick the engine into a series 1-3 RX7.

[Kitdy]

I could live with a V6 Mustang now that it is not the 4L.

[Sledgehammer]

Call it blasphamy, but I think that multiple engine configurations would have been a nice option for the rx8. Four years ago when I was looking at a new car, I would have bought the rx8 had it not been for the rotary engine. In the real world where a perfect 50/50 distribution is hardly necessary, the 2.3 from the speed 6 would be very appealing to me. Nowadays, the Hyundai Genesis Coupe has taken the basic rx8 platform and uses and inline 4, or NA 6. The recipe of front engine, rwd in an affordable platform that isn't the most common sports car in history that also includes a rear seat is left to the H'Coupe, and that's about it for under 30k. For my own preference the 350/370z is out due to the lack of a rear seat. Same story for the S2000. I'm terms of practical sports cars (excluding American behemoths) that have 4 seats and a trunk the list is quite short. The RX-8 held a great spot in the marketplace and was held up in my opinion by one drawback, the engine.

[Ferrer]

I believe sales have been terrible in the past few years, and if you add to that the fact that the rotary engine program may be dead... Then yes, I think you could call it a failure. The RX-8 also never lived up to the standards set by its predecessor. That being said, I think it is a cool car.
Maybe the mistake was considering it the RX-7 successor.

Haha. No love for the Challenger? :)
I like it and couldn't care less about lap times.

[ScionDriver]

I always liked the RX8 but I think they let it go for too long without a big redesign. It was a pretty cool idea for a sporty car, yes there were drawbacks as others have pointed out here, but I think it was decent. Could become a cult classic (if it isn't already!).

[RacingManiac]

Maybe the mistake was considering it the RX-7 successor.


Was RX7 a sales success though? You don't see used ones around that much really...

[Ferrer]

Well, I would say that, at least, the third generation RX-7 was certainly Mazda's halo car outside their domestic market, so I guess sales weren't that important. It was also part of Mazdas' ambitious diversification plan with several newly created brands that didn't end well.

On that aspect the RX-8 was a much more conventional car and probably more conventional business results were expected.

[NSXType-R]

Whew, sorry for the late replies everyone!


And I(nor the article) said it was....it was supposed to be a showcase for Renesis though, which is supposed to solve the issue with the older design, but it really didn't do much in that respect...

No, that comment I made was for the RX-8 lovers- Matra. :D


From all accounts I've heard, the RX8 was a fun little car but I think it lacked the "flair" it would have needed to draw stupid people away from buying the Mustang. It was definitely the "thinking man's" car of it's class.

I don't know if anyone remembers the concept from 2006 but that is the kind of car that I wish someone would build. Small and light with a gasoline-powered 2L I4 turning the rear wheels. As long as they had kept it simple, it would have been cheap and light. And as long as they had kept it light, it would have been economical. It was supposed to be a midpoint between the Miata and the RX8 but it probably would have cannibalized them both. I think the RX8 would have been a lot more appealing if it had been more simple, like this or the RX7. But instead they tried to make it do too much and appeal to too wide of an audience.

That wouldn't have made a very good RX car. I think that it's not a bad idea though, Mazda is marketed towards enthusiasts, they do need a cheap-ish sports car to hold up the image as the MX-5 isn't practical enough in use.

If they were able to make a shared platform where they could have made a cheap-ish practical MS3 engined sports car and a somewhat expensive not very practical halo rotary car (like the 370Z), I think that would have worked better.


That's sort of my point... being less fuel efficient was just one issue that kept rotaries from being built in the same numbers, and therefore less profitable. It's had 50 years in production and has plenty of fans (many here, myself too), so Darwinism in manufacturing maybe, but enthusiasts will keep them around.

I was disapointed when the old RX7 (last gen) was killed, and always wished Mazda had powered the MX5 with a rotary. If they drop it entirely, cult status remains.

I would have enjoyed seeing a rotary MX-5, maybe as a halo MX-5 or a track day car, somewhat like the MX-5 version of the 911 GT3.


I would say that potentially the reason why the RX-8 failed was because of its engine. Sticking a rotary in an MX-5 would be tinkering with something that works well as it stands; not a good idea to me.

It is preferable that Mazda make a pure sportscar - one with a rotary would be ideal, if not only for the variety - but the market may well not support it at this time.

Maybe something like what RM mentioned above would be a reasonable solution.

Yes, I also resent that heterogeneity is being lost.

I agree, I think that was the downfall of the RX-8. It tried to please everyone but the fuel mileage didn't reflect a practical 4 passenger coupe. The fact that it drank fuel pointed it as a serious sports car, but it didn't have the power or go of a serious sports car. It might have had the handling but that by itself didn't sell the car well enough.


Am i the only one remembering and noticing this?:

I don't think we will see rotaries go away, the fact that you can keep the same basic engine design, and just add hydrogen instead of petrol gives Rotaries a huge advantage over new designed engine concepts.
Besides, Mazda is doing well, but need more public attention, and the RX8 didn't do that. I believe we might see a new green RX7, to compete with the rumored Green NSX replacement, and what Toyota/Lexus come up with instead of the Supra.

Others have said it already, hydrogen may be viable in the future, but it isn't now.

I wouldn't want to see a green NSX, unless it was done right, like in the vein of a Porsche 918 hybrid or with the hybrid system of the GT3 racer.


Call it blasphamy, but I think that multiple engine configurations would have been a nice option for the rx8. Four years ago when I was looking at a new car, I would have bought the rx8 had it not been for the rotary engine. In the real world where a perfect 50/50 distribution is hardly necessary, the 2.3 from the speed 6 would be very appealing to me. Nowadays, the Hyundai Genesis Coupe has taken the basic rx8 platform and uses and inline 4, or NA 6. The recipe of front engine, rwd in an affordable platform that isn't the most common sports car in history that also includes a rear seat is left to the H'Coupe, and that's about it for under 30k. For my own preference the 350/370z is out due to the lack of a rear seat. Same story for the S2000. I'm terms of practical sports cars (excluding American behemoths) that have 4 seats and a trunk the list is quite short. The RX-8 held a great spot in the marketplace and was held up in my opinion by one drawback, the engine.

Just curious, are you interested in the Toyota/Subaru creation? I'm pretty interested in it.


Well, I would say that, at least, the third generation RX-7 was certainly Mazda's halo car outside their domestic market, so I guess sales weren't that important. It was also part of Mazdas' ambitious diversification plan with several newly created brands that didn't end well.

On that aspect the RX-8 was a much more conventional car and probably more conventional business results were expected.

I would seriously prefer Mazda to have a halo RX car. It didn't work with the RX-8. If they continue with that recipe with only so-so mpg, it's going to fail miserably.

[Matra et Alpine]

The RX-8 was not selling, and has been cancelled. The Mustang sells well and is cheap.

Certainly far from conclusive evidence, but a potential big hint.

EXCEPT , it misses tyhe facts from years back....

Mazda coudl not make the RX-8 pass the more stringent European emission laws and so stopped development, promotion and then production.

LONG before the sales tail started for the RX-8 the writing was on the wall for its demise.

As I already stated, the UK production has been stopped for nearly a year.

[clutch-monkey]

Was RX7 a sales success though? You don't see used ones around that much really...
there are plenty around, plenty for sale/imported and several models from the touring car days still command high prices

[RacingManiac]

I guess I'll chalk that down to in N. America they got canned early...much like all the other Japanese sports cars here....