Corvette C6 branding in Europe

[md11]

I have a very simple question for those enthusiasts that pay attention to this sort of details.

As far as I know, when the C6 generation of the Corvette came out in 2004, it was branded as a "Corvette" in Europe because of the cheap image of the Chevrolet brand still dealing with the Daewoo brand legacy and its ageing portfolio.
The main difference in this was that Chevrolet dealers couldn't sell the Corvette which in turn was sold at Cadillac/Saab dealers as with the C5 (which was a Chevrolet worldwide as far as I know).

Now the C7 is definitely branded as a Chevrolet, but I found some articles on the internet dating back to 2010 saying that the Corvette brand was soon to be replaced with Chevrolet in Europe as well.

The question is, did this happen in 2010 or only with the new C7? Even if at autoshows the C6 was exhibited next to the various regular Chevrolets, I tend to think the C6 was never branded as a Chevrolet.

Thanks in advance.

[Revo]

I guess they did drop that silly branding nonsense after all.

German MY2013 brochure (https://www.chevrolet.de/images/pdf/MY13_DE_DE_CORVETTEebro_LHDe.pdf) says it loud and proud: Chevrolet Corvette.

[Ferrer]

Don't quote me on that, but I think the change was done when the Camaro was introduced in Europe.

The Camaro has always been sold through Chevrolet dealers.

This also coincided with the cancellation of the diesel CTS and the rethink of the Cadillac strategy in Europe, with most dealers closing down.

[md11]

Thank you both.
2010 was indeed the year GM introduced the European version of the 5th gen Camaro, so I guess that's when the Corvette line was brought into the Chevrolet portfolio as both models (Camaro and Corvette) would have gained from this.

On the other hand, this is a particular day as GM apparently announced there won't be a Chevrolet brand in Europe by 2015.
Which brings back the question on how they plan to sell both the Corvette and the Camaro (assuming the 6th gen will be sold here as well) now that they don't have any sort of an upscale brand/dealer network after both Cadillac and Saab went off the map.

It was about time though that they realized the marginal difference in price between Opels and Chevrolets. They tried to move Opel upscale adding a lot of options which made an Astra even more expensive than an A3, but that wasn't the right strategy for sure. I wonder what will happen to the Cruze, meaning to the slightly cheaper sister of the Astra.

[henk4]

On the other hand, this is a particular day as GM apparently announced there won't be a Chevrolet brand in Europe by 2015.


So all the efforts to re-brand Daewoos as a Chevrolet, ultimately are in vain? Are we getting the Daewoos again, or will the Sparks be gone forever?

[Cobrafan427]

Another interesting little detail would be to look at a European Corvette's badge and see if it still has the little Chevy bowtie on one of the flags.

The Camaro would have an even bigger badging issue, the bowtie on there is humangous big (internet cookie to whoever knows who i quoted by spelling humongous wrong)

[Ferrer]

On the other hand, this is a particular day as GM apparently announced there won't be a Chevrolet brand in Europe by 2015.
Which brings back the question on how they plan to sell both the Corvette and the Camaro (assuming the 6th gen will be sold here as well) now that they don't have any sort of an upscale brand/dealer network after both Cadillac and Saab went off the map.

It was about time though that they realized the marginal difference in price between Opels and Chevrolets. They tried to move Opel upscale adding a lot of options which made an Astra even more expensive than an A3, but that wasn't the right strategy for sure. I wonder what will happen to the Cruze, meaning to the slightly cheaper sister of the Astra.
Serendipity?

Just as you were asking when did GM start branding Corvettes and Camaros as Chevrolets they announce that they are withdrawing Chevrolet from Europe. Curious.

Corvettes and Camaros will continue to be sold though, possibly through the Cadillac dealer network, which apparently will be revamped too.

Is withdrawing Chevrolet from Europe a good idea? I don't know, to be honest. The good thing about mainstream Chevrolets in Europe, though, is that they were bargains compared to the competition, which afforded them a sizeable market share.

With them gone they won't be direct to Opel sales, as they appealed to the different customers, but nevertheless Opel will be able to have more resources at their disposal (Cadillac Europe too) which could help them improve results.

By the way, there's rumour that says that GM is also planning to close Holden down for good in 2016...

By the way, Pieter, I don't think we will get any of the current Chevrolet range in any form when it is finally phased out in 2015.

[pimento]

I wonder if they'll try to merge the Daewoo based platforms/products into the Opel based ones. Seems like there's some synergising to be done there anyway. Maybe leverage some of the various paradigms to form one cohesive whole.

Or something.

[Kitdy]

Nice wordings pim.

Daewoo. That's who. I will not forget those ads anytime soon.

[md11]

The Spark never managed to achieve the same success as the Matiz, but then again the Matiz' replacement was long overdue and eventually the wait deteriorated the image. Switching to a new name was another terrible idea, at least in Europe.

The Cruze revived for a couple of years the small sedan market, but it didn't last. The estate variant is possibly absent from the streets, same for the 5-doors model. As a matter of fact, it was only two days ago that I've seen my first 5-doors Mitsubishi Lancer, and it wasn't bad at all, but I've seen more multi million dollars cars in the same period of time. How about that.

What should Opel do now?
Have an entry level city car, something between the Agila and the Spark, keep the Adam if they really think they can sell some, have lower trims of the Astra cost a bit less, probably no need for a sedan version, keep the Insignia just because, and have the next gen Antara available also as a 7-seater. As for the Mokka, it's probably cannibalizing the Adam market. Small, "cool" and expensive cars. Doesn't matter one is not an SUV and that the other never pretended to be one, it's not on the job description (see the three words above).

That's basically a German Fiat, except for the cannibalizing bit so far and the fact they did realize there is presently no need for a flagship sedan or wagon, an SUV or crossover is all you need. Unfortunately.

[Kitdy]

Outside of Germany and Britain, how much does one see and how well does Opel/Vauxhall do? I see a metric s-word ton of Vauxhalls in Britain but have not crossed the channel to the continent and do not know sales numbers. Which reminds me, I semi-reliably see Canadian and US market sales numbers; any of y'all got a good source for the Europe?

My thoughts on Chevy in Europe is that they must have been at or near the very bottom of the pekking order with cars like the Matiz and Spark. There are other valueist (if we are going to use Ferrer's new car terminology scheme... So I guess we gotta use premiumist manufacturers too?! Or luxuriest!?) carmakers that would come first on a shoppers list than an American brand with tons of cars designed and built by the bad Korean car maker.

[Ferrer]

This how the Spanish sales chart looks, updated to November 2013.

Brands Units %12/13 YTD %12/13
SEAT 3738 0,9 54 772 8,4
Volkswagen 4010 21,0 51 458 0,2
Peugeot 3717 4,0 49 233 -3,4
Renault 3951 18,9 48 530 5,5
Opel 3539 4,5 46 717 3,5
Citroën 3135 -20,3 42 114 -13,4
Ford 3380 32,5 38 158 -10,5
Nissan 2656 7,9 31 221 -0,9
Toyota 2976 31,3 29 770 -1,4
Audi 1571 -6,4 25 817 1,1
Mercedes-Benz 1810 45,0 20 296 18,1
Hyundai 1452 -30,2 19 527 10,3
FIAT 1457 37,6 19 287 28,7
BMW 1198 -22,1 17 211 3,8
Dacia 1881 122,6 17 048 67,1
KIA 1163 45,4 12 383 28,8
Skoda 1020 57,2 11 311 -1,1
Chevrolet 620 -19,2 9217 -25,9
MINI 528 11,6 6943 2,6
Volvo 320 -5,3 3611 -4,7
Honda 225 8,2 3222 -10,8
Mazda 343 100,6 2786 7,2
Alfa Romeo 162 -30,8 2782 -14,5
smart 106 -0,9 2229 -1,0
Lexus 179 58,4 1506 -2,1
Lancia 108 -24,5 1492 -13,1
Suzuki 108 12,5 1063 -13,3
Jaguar 81 22,7 802 1,5
SsangYong 42 -17,6 752 39,3
Subaru 64 16,4 684 -5,7
TATA 47 30,6 549 100,4
Porsche 38 -25,5 440 -3,5
Landwind 0 - 161 -
Mitsubishi 20 -13,0 144 9,9
Infiniti 3 -40,0 42 -46,8
Ferrati 3 50,0 35 -25,5
Maserati 2 100,0 22 15,8
Aston Martin 1 -50,0 22 22,2
Bentley 1 - 19 -17,4
Lada 0 - 5 -16,7
Garbi 0 - 3 -
McLaren 0 - 3 -50,0
Dodge 0 - 3 -57,1
Lotus 0 - 3 50,0
Chrysler 1 - 2 -85,7
Lamborghini 1 0,0 2 -71,4
Rolls Royce 1 - 2 0,0
Morgan 0 - 2 -33,3
Caterham 0 - 2 -
PGO 0 -100,0 2 100,0
Cadillac 0 - 1 0,0
Spyker 0 - 1 -
Buick 0 - 1 -
Daihatsu 0 - 1 -66,7

Source: km77.com. As va el mercado. (http://www.km77.com/mercado/espana/2013/datosnoviembretur.asp)

(BTW, this a reliable source for Spanish car sales)

Opel is relatively big player (5th), but bear in mind Opel has a big plant in Figueruelas, so that affects the sales numbers too.

As for Chevrolet they aren't that important, at least in Spain. Mainly Aveos and Cruzes, but that's about it. Unveiling the Cruze as a saloon-only range didn't help either. Oh, and yesterday I saw a Malibu! They are as a popular as the Suzuki Kizashi...

Chevrolet's market positioning is cheap, basic transportation. Not quite to Dacia's levels, but just above.

[crisis]

By the way, there's rumour that says that GM is also planning to close Holden down for good in 2016...

Holden chief executive Mike Devereux says no decision has been made about the future of its car manufacturing operation in Australia.
“Mr Devereux told the Productivity Commission that the cost of losing the car manufacturing industry would dwarf the cost of keeping it, and warned of the disastrous effect Holden's withdrawal would have on the economy.
"The economic benefit of us making things is $33 billion to the Australian economy," he said.
"That's 18 times the assistance we receive."
Mr Devereux said every job in the automotive industry created two to three others in the wider economy.
He told the commission it costs the company $3,750 per car, or around $300 million extra per year, to manufacture cars in Australia.
"We have one of the most unprotected markets on the planet.
"Is the cost of labour higher here than it is in Asia? Of course it is ... it's one of the challenges we have to overcome, but it's not the only driver of why things cost more to make here."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-10/holden-boss-to-appear-at-productivity-commission-amid-speculati/5145614

I can’t see it surviving despite the cost to our economy if it goes. There are two linked but distinctively different issues here. One is propping up an American company with public money and the there is hanging onto an industry that employs people far beyond the fences of Holden’s factories. That together with the fact that those industries that support Holden are able to leverage off of their sales there to also supply other markets.
The previous support was by the way of import credits so there was no actual outlay of cash, merely the government did not collect import duties on parts destined to be used in Australian built cars. I can’t help thinking that if it costs $3,750 per car extra to manufacture here we the government should subsidies that difference perhaps upon purchase to consumers. Of course Australia seem to want to be leaders in free trade when in reality we are not economically powerful enough to do it.

[pimento]

According to the internet (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/gm_decides_holden_will_close_80690_20131209) the decision has been made, they just don't want to tell us yet.

[Ferrer]

How big is the Australian car market?

Also, Fisler will be very happy if both the Falcon and Commodore disappear at once. With the 300/Charger they could have winner.

[Kitdy]

Shame. The Chevy SS with more of the current Impala front features badged an Impala appeals more to me than the Charger, which has never done it for me.

RIP Aussie Auto Industry. You will be missed.

[crisis]

How big is the Australian car market? Around a million cars a year.


Also, Fisler will be very happy if both the Falcon and Commodore disappear at once. With the 300/Charger they could have winner. Winner or not they will be in an almost unique position in the world as the only manufacturer of a large powerful rear wheel drive car under AUS$70,000. Of course the current VF SS Commodore with a 6.2 Chev is only $50,000.


Shame. The Chevy SS with more of the current Impala front features badged an Impala appeals more to me than the Charger, which has never done it for me.

RIP Aussie Auto Industry. You will be missed.
Even more so when GM have decided to retain the Holden badge and try to sell us this with it pasted on. How stupid do we look? (rhetorical)

http://www.carsguide.com.au/images/uploads/holden-commdore-buick-from-china-W.jpg

Now for Holden Commodore from China | carsguide.com.au (http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-news/now_for_the_holden_commodore_from_china_20131213_7 9790?origin=hpc2)

Whether it looks good, bad or anything it could look like Katy Perry in a string bikini and it will still be a generic front wheel drive 4 cylinder in a sea of other (likely better made) generic front wheel drive 4 cylinders. :mad:

[Ferrer]

Around a million cars a year.
That's slightly bigger than the car market in Spain.

[f6fhellcat13]

There is talk of the Commodore being produced in America (North America) and being sold back to Australia. At first this seems like a brilliant idea, but I don't have that much faith in GM management and their ability to fluidly move products across world markets.

[Ferrer]

There is talk of the Commodore being produced in America (North America) and being sold back to Australia. At first this seems like a brilliant idea, but I don't have that much faith in GM management and their ability to fluidly move products across world markets.
I'm sure that if they do that they'll actually discontinue it before they realise that actually it wasn't that bad.

By the way, I was thinking, for normal cars, what's the point of rear wheel drive at all? Surely there aren't any advantages; front wheel drive has better packaging characteristics, more predictable handling, safer when grip goes missing and better fuel economy.

Why would anyone, actually, want rear wheel drive?

[f6fhellcat13]

I'm sure that if they do that they'll actually discontinue it before they realise that actually it wasn't that bad.

By the way, I was thinking, for normal cars, what's the point of rear wheel drive at all? Surely there aren't any advantages; front wheel drive has better packaging characteristics, more predictable handling, safer when grip goes missing and better fuel economy.

Why would anyone, actually, want rear wheel drive?

For the non-enthusiast crowd, the only advantages I can think of are better cooling, the ability to fit wider V, H, X, or W engines, and perhaps smugness.

[Ferrer]

On the engine side, I know a man who went straight from an E90 330i to an F30 328i.

He has had the newer Bimmer for about three months and although he remembers fondly the old straight six, the new turbo four is just as good, goes pretty much as hard and is a little bit more frugal.

So, when V6s fit perfectly under a front wheel drive car bonnet, Joe Average probably does not need anything else.

Of course if image and/or big power comes into play, then yes rear wheel drive can/does make a difference. But for a Commodore owner (or an Impala or Insignia one for that matter) rear wheel drive is pretty much useless.

Unfortunately.

[pimento]

RWD isn't that useless for a commode driver.. not for when there's a V8 under the bonnet. Also it's been cheaper to leave it RWD than to re-engineer it for FWD with all new powertrains at the same time.

[crisis]

There is talk of the Commodore being produced in America (North America) and being sold back to Australia. At first this seems like a brilliant idea, but I don't have that much faith in GM management and their ability to fluidly move products across world markets.
I can’t really see it. I think rear wheel drive is dead for Holden after 2017. Most people who just want a car for transport couldn’t give a rats. Most people don’t really “drive” anyway.


By the way, I was thinking, for normal cars, what's the point of rear wheel drive at all? Surely there aren't any advantages; front wheel drive has better packaging characteristics, more predictable handling, safer when grip goes missing and better fuel economy.
Why would anyone, actually, want rear wheel drive? Well in answer to your last question not many people really. As I said above. The advantages for me though are the feedback and general feel when the front wheels are steering and the back ones are putting the power down. I guess it is accentuated with a powerful engine under the bonnet. To me there is nothing like that feeling. And when the “grip goes missing” the fun begins. But it’s obviously not for everyone. That said, while I adored some of my rwd V8s I have never felt the slightest attachment for any front wheel drive car I have owned or driven. They have all been bland means of transport. And the more powerful ones merely highlighted to me how putting power through the driving wheels is plain wrong. But I am a dinosaur as well. ;)

[Ferrer]

Oh surely, there are advantages, if you can notice and appreciate them. That's why cars like the Toyota GT86 exist, for the three lunatics that understand rear wheel drive (and I'm pretty sure two of those lunatics actually post here).

But in the big scheme of things these are a pretty limited niche. The niche of niches if you will. For most people what is important is the illusion of sportiness, not the actual sportiness.

I recently had a discussion with a family member on that. Now, as everyone knows here I quite like driving, often in the accepted dab-of-oppo manner. When I made the choice for my car I discarded performance because I specifically wanted a rear wheel drive. So I ended with something that handles beautifully but is actually quite slow.

The person I was speaking to, owns the grey A-Class, and my argument was that because I like going places slightly sideways she had a silly premium hatchback with a stupid ride. It's not only that sportiness sells to young people which helps lowering the age of your customer base (a 20 something is bound to buy more car, for longer, than a 60 something) but also that old people like to feel young and therefore sportier cars are bound to generate more sales.

But it gets worse than that. The other car in the house is a magnificent rear wheel drive sports saloon with a V8 engine. Do you want to have a guess at which car is used more often? Nope, you are wrong, it's the stupid Mercedes. So, I'm afraid rear wheel drive really is useless.

[crisis]

But in the big scheme of things these are a pretty limited niche. BMW, Mercedes…. ?




But it gets worse than that. The other car in the house is a magnificent rear wheel drive sports saloon with a V8 engine. Do you want to have a guess at which car is used more often? Nope, you are wrong, it's the stupid Mercedes. So, I'm afraid rear wheel drive really is useless. Correlation does not imply causation. We have a V8 Landcruiser and a Mitsubishi Mirage. I know what I would rather drive but the Mirage gets used the most for daily commuting. Because it doesn’t use any fuel that I can observe. If I had a RWD V8 sedan I would probably default more often to that but in the end the most economical car will get used for mere commuting. But I won’t be having any fun.

[Ferrer]

BMW, Mercedes…. ?
They are image-led cars. People are buying a roundel or a three-pointed star, not a rear wheel drive vehicle.

And anyway both have switched to front wheel drive, are selling just as well if not even better.

Correlation does not imply causation. We have a V8 Landcruiser and a Mitsubishi Mirage. I know what I would rather drive but the Mirage gets used the most for daily commuting. Because it doesn’t use any fuel that I can observe. If I had a RWD V8 sedan I would probably default more often to that but in the end the most economical car will get used for mere commuting. But I won’t be having any fun.
Well they do not commute as such, as they are (almost) retired.

And anyway, what's the point of having a rear wheel drive V8 car if you are not using it? Certainly I can see the point if you used the little front wheel drive diesel hatchback for (short) trips to the shops; but if you have to go somewhere which is a bit (or a lot) further and that you might find interesting roads along the way, what the point of not using the proper driver's car?

(Especially if the other option is a stupid A-Class Merc, but that's another story)

[Kitdy]

Well your relative is free to like what she likes!

[crisis]

They are image-led cars. People are buying a roundel or a three-pointed star, not a rear wheel drive vehicle. To a large extent they are image led cars but it is a sweeping generalization to presume all buyers buy for that reason alone.


And anyway both have switched to front wheel drive, are selling just as well if not even better. These are probably the ones that are led by image driven reasons to buy. ;)


And anyway, what's the point of having a rear wheel drive V8 car if you are not using it? Certainly I can see the point if you used the little front wheel drive diesel hatchback for (short) trips to the shops; but if you have to go somewhere which is a bit (or a lot) further and that you might find interesting roads along the way, what the point of not using the proper driver's car? I couldn’t agree more. That is my point.