Alpine Vision Concept 2016

[Ferrer]

Monte Carlo, Monaco - At the home of the world-famous Monte Carlo Rally and on the Col de Turini, site of some of racing’s most memorable moments, Groupe Renault today announced plans for a new Alpine sports car, and unveiled the Alpine Vision show car.

“Motorsports and sports cars are deeply rooted in the DNA of Groupe Renault,” Groupe Renault Chairman and CEO Carlos Ghosn said. “Earlier this month we announced our return to Formula One with a Renault team, and today we are announcing Alpine. This is an exciting next step in our strategy to leverage talent and technology between road and track, and we look forward to reaching new customers in the sport premium cars segment.”

The show car Alpine Vision combines sensual design with outstanding agility, true to the great Alpine A110 Berlinette loved and admired by enthusiasts around the world. Alpine Vision is powered by a new 4 cylinder turbocharged engine, built by experts at Renault Sport, and its low weight will allow the car to achieve 0 to 100 km/h in less than 4.5 seconds - the target for the future production model.

Alpine will be managed by a small team of passionate experts within Groupe Renault, with one sole mission – to meet and exceed the expectations of the demanding sport premium customer. Michael van der Sande will lead as Alpine managing director, and Antony Villain will head Alpine design.
Alpine will draw on the extensive resources of Groupe Renault, and Renault Sport.

“All of us at Alpine are proud to have been entrusted with the task of bringing back Alpine to sports car lovers around the world”, said Michael van der Sande, Alpine managing director. “Our job is to faithfully re-interpret famous Alpines of the past and project Alpine into the future with a beautifully designed, agile, high-performance sports car. Our Alpine Vision show car is immediately recognizable as an Alpine yet resolutely modern. We look forward to revealing the production model later this year.”

Over the next 12 months, the Alpine team will focus on building an outstanding car, very close to today’s show car in terms of design, weight, handling, agility and attention to detail. Priorities will also include building out the team and the network, and finally, to pursue racing. The current Signatech-Alpine Racing Team has already won two European endurance championships, and won the LMP2 class in the World Endurance Championship last year in Shanghai; and this year, the team will enter two Alpine LMP2 cars in the World Endurance Championship, including Le Mans.

Made in Dieppe, France, the new Alpine will go on sale in 2017 initially in Europe, followed by other markets worldwide.

[Ferrer]

Far too retro, but other than that not bad #2

[f6fhellcat13]

I doesn't really look like the Alfa 4C, like I misspoke (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1006502&postcount=68) about the Veloster. What I meant, however, and what I mean here, is that the design language seems similar as does the proportioning. They all have some of the Stormtrooper-helmet aesthetic, especially in white.
Overall, I'd say the Alpine is much, much more successful than the Hyundai and a little bit worse than the Alpha Romero.

[Rasmus]

What's with the A7 rear?

[Ferrer]

A thought popped into my head this morning. This and the 4C (let's be honest, the Alpine's only true rival) have, unless I'm mistaken, the traditional front-tranverse engined layout behind the rear seats. Since the engine and gearbox are above the rear axle, does this make them mid or rear engined?

By the way, at least this doesn't have the eye infection the 4C had (although it's only a prototype) and it also looks like it will be more civilised. If the price is good it could sell moderately well, but even with a full carbon fibre chassis the 4Cs and their 50+ price tag the Alfas are languishing in the dealer lots apparently...

[Revo]

A thought popped into my head this morning. This and the 4C (let's be honest, the Alpine's only true rival) have, unless I'm mistaken, the traditional front-tranverse engined layout behind the rear seats. Since the engine and gearbox are above the rear axle, does this make them mid or rear engined?
4C engine position is clearly shown here. (http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=400194&d=1397057911)

[Ferrer]

Thanks Revo!

So somewhat like a Stratos (or a Smart) then; not rear engined but not quite mid engined either.

[Revo]

What, exactly, are you on about?

Both 4C and Stratos are textbook examples of mid-engined layout.

[Ferrer]

What I meant is that in longitudinal-engined mid-engined cars the whole of the engine (or almost of all of it is in front of the rear axle. Here the Porsche 917 as an example.

http://free-ri.t-com.hr/AlfredVracar/Porsche/917b.jpg

On the other hand in cars like the Stratos, the 4C or (probably) this one, there's a lot of engine over the axle or near it, making it have a more rearward weight bias than other mid engined cars. So despite not being rear engined, those cars will display a weight distribution which is more similar to rear engined cars than other mid engined cars do.

I hope it makes sense now.

[Revo]

Porsche 917 is a poor example you gave, because it actually has more rear weight bias than Alfa 4C (36/64 vs 38/62 in numerical values).

However, compared to another mid-engined car like Porsche Cayman with weight distribution 45/55, Alfa 4C has indeed more of its weight on the rear axle.

Naturally, one should not forget the weight difference of about 450 kg. That is what really makes the difference between the two.

[Ferrer]

My bad... :o

Still, apparently then the 4C has the same weight distribution as the basic 911 997 (38/62).

[Kitdy]

I was talking to my friends at the Autoshow, and I impressed on them how much of a hard sell the 4C was.

FCA make some interesting business and engineering decisions. The Viper, 200/Dart, Alfa reboot... Curious.

This Alpine also smacks of being a poor allocation of resources. Will this bring any prestige or cash to Renault if its made?

[pimento]

I was talking to my friends at the Autoshow, and I impressed on them how much of a hard sell the 4C was.

FCA make some interesting business and engineering decisions. The Viper, 200/Dart, Alfa reboot... Curious.

This Alpine also smacks of being a poor allocation of resources. Will this bring any prestige or cash to Renault if its made?

They sure as hell hope it will. Misses the mark for me cos of the simple fact that it's meant to be a small, light fun to drive car.. but it's auto only, likely the gearbox out of the Clio RS which is apparently particularly awful. So there goes the fun.

[Kitdy]

They sure as hell hope it will. Misses the mark for me cos of the simple fact that it's meant to be a small, light fun to drive car.. but it's auto only, likely the gearbox out of the Clio RS which is apparently particularly awful. So there goes the fun.

I mean, it also is not badged as a Renault. It's an Alpine; which always was a niche brand. Will this draw showroom traffic for Renault's more pedestrian offerings? Is relaunching a dormant niche sub-brand a good use of company/shareholder capital?

A similar (and yet very different) scenario was VW's experiment with Bugatti. How can Bugatti be a halo car, if it has no other cars in its lineup? Bugatti being a halo brand for VW Group makes no sense.

If Renault proceeds and makes an (singular) Alpine, after kicking around the can with a few concept cars... What does that achieve?

[Ferrer]

I'm sure they'll waste no time in badging it Alpine-Renault when it comes to put it into production. I also doubt they will set an entirely new dealer network for just one car.

So, there you have you showroom traffic driver.

On the other hand if it's successful they want to unveil several new models, including SUVs and whatnot. Then the brand should be able to sustain itself, much like Lexus isn't a showroom traffic driver for Toyota but rather an entirely different entity.

[Kitdy]

Alpine-Renault isn't Renault though. It's something else. This will be sold alongside other Renaults, but my feeling is the buyer coming in to look at the Alpine is an older car enthusiast unlikely to be drawn to the Renaults sharing the floor. And it's not as though Alpine has the best name recognition anyways (yes, I know it is better known in Europe).

I just can't get this wrapped around my head. Were I management, I would want to focus on my core brands, as opposed to developing a sub-brand fronted by a singular sportscar. We've all seen how sportscar sales have done in the past decade. The Toyabaru isn't flying off the shelves.

FCA's limited success with increasing sales for Maserati and Alfa Romeo would be a warning to me as a Renault-Nissan exec. This seems like a vanity project destined to lose money.

An awesome vanity project though; a compact coupe sportscar with decent looks? Sign me up.

[Rasmus]

Well, it would make sense if they deliberately did not want to dilute/pollute/infuse/contaminate/confuse any brand with that of another. As you say, which archetypal Renault buyer is going to buy an Alpine anyway? Separate brands for different market segments have long been proven successful, eg. Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti, Honda/Acura, Lincoln/Ford. Granted, Mercury and Scion are gone, but I digress.

At the local auto mall, I still get a kick out of the fact that the 4C is being sold out of the same showroom as they're using for the 500/500L/500X. Two brands, two different segments, but, I suppose, they figured, "small European cars go in that building over there." I'm still waiting on where they're going to stick the Giulia.

[Ferrer]

Well that's not how a showroom traffic driver works, is it?

Imagine you are in the market for a small supermini. You are not interested in a sportscar, maybe you can't afford it or maybe it isn't practical for your needs or maybe you find cars and utter ballache; whatever.

You enter a Skoda dealer, and immediately you are in a sea of grey cars. All very practical but hardly exciting. The salesman tells you all about boot sizes and warranty extensions. You fall asleep. Then leave.

Next, you enter the Renault showroom. And in the same showroom floor full of grey cars there is also this 2 seater mid engined sportscar. You notice it and the salesman tells you that the company that makes the grey hatchback you want to buy also makes it. You discuss rear leg room and finance payments and, of course, fall asleep. But in the back of your head there's this thought... "Even if I can only afford a grey citycar which costs 3p if I get this instead of the Skoda I'll have a bit of 2 seater sportscar magic, even when I'm in a traffic jam, at eight o'clock in the morning, on my way to the office, on a Monday". There's a smither of excitement even if you know nothing about cars. And excitement is good, makes you look and feel interesting and that's even better than good.

That's how (or at least one of the ways) showroom traffic drivers work, don't they?

[Rasmus]

Well that's not how a showroom traffic driver works, is it?

Imagine you are in the market for a small supermini. You are not interested in a sportscar, maybe you can't afford it or maybe it isn't practical for your needs or maybe you find cars and utter ballache; whatever.

You enter a Skoda dealer, and immediately you are in a sea of grey cars. All very practical but hardly exciting. The salesman tells you all about boot sizes and warranty extensions. You fall asleep. Then leave.

Next, you enter the Renault showroom. And in the same showroom floor full of grey cars there is also this 2 seater mid engined sportscar. You notice it and the salesman tells you that the company that makes the grey hatchback you want to buy also makes it. You discuss rear leg room and finance payments and, of course, fall asleep. But in the back of your head there's this thought... "Even if I can only afford a grey citycar which costs 3p if I get this instead of the Skoda I'll have a bit of 2 seater sportscar magic, even when I'm in a traffic jam, at eight o'clock in the morning, on my way to the office, on a Monday". There's a smither of excitement even if you know nothing about cars. And excitement is good, makes you look and feel interesting and that's even better than good.

That's how (or at least one of the ways) showroom traffic drivers work, don't they?

Well, sure, I don't disagree with that at all, but it still is only one perspective.

What you are saying is that the clout of the exciting is going to make the lesser models interesting to an otherwise oblivious market segment. What I'm saying, on the other hand, is that the sea of gray and boring is going to inevitably, and on some level, tarnish the impression of the new and exciting. If that new and exciting bit turns out to be an up-scale, more luxurious build than the plain, it only becomes more polarizing.

I know the following example is a bit egregious, but bear with me on this one: if you're going to go look at a Ferrari, you don't exactly want to fight your way through the ranks of Fiat Pandas.

Whether Renault decides to market the thing as a Renault-Alpine or simply a separate Alpine, I believe they have plenty of reason to do either.

[Ferrer]

I could very well be wrong, but I think it will work out like that:


Their idea is to either create a new Lexus or a new Audi (probably the most appropiate example is the latter, as Alpine does have a history behind). As such they want exciting new products to create brand which boasts a brilliant image and boosts fat profit margins (which Renaults, never mind Dacias, probably do not have)

Nobody wants an expensive French sportscar from a brand name whose customer base is mostly dead or can't drive any more. The Japanese, not really known for having few resources and making things the half-assed way, have failed with their approach in Europe (let's remember that Alpine's playground will mainly be Europe). This doesn't bode well for the Alpine

Finally, when nobody buys one and you can get one really cheaply because they are languishing on dealer lots it will gain the traffic showroom driver role we discussed in the previous post(s). Which anyway is what Alpines have been since Renault bought the company from Jean Redélé back in the seventies. In fact the last Alpine that wasn't based on a production Renault was... the Renault Spider. This will probably (possibly unfortunately) end up being the same, the only difference is that in this case they have chosen to revive the Alpine name.


Who knows, if I'm wrong maybe Renault has the next Lexus. Maybe they had the work so advanced when they broke up with Caterham that they had no option but to finish it and put it on sale anyway. Or maybe they see the need to move on because of DS or the planned resurgence of Alfa Romeo. Or maybe it's a bit of both. Or maybe it has nothing to do with anything I have said here.

Only time will tell.

[Rasmus]

I think you're right on the separate brand, and I'm wondering how they're going to market one or more cars under this one brand now.

Just noticed that they are running their social media campaign very separately from Renault: Alpine_cars (@alpine_cars) | Twitter (https://twitter.com/alpine_cars)

[Ferrer]

Live launch was on the Group's main Twitter account, though.

Renault (@Groupe_Renault) | Twitter (https://twitter.com/Groupe_Renault)

[Kitdy]

Nobody wants an expensive French sportscar from a brand name whose customer base is mostly dead or can't drive any more. The Japanese, not really known for having few resources and making things the half-assed way, have failed with their approach in Europe (let's remember that Alpine's playground will mainly be Europe). This doesn't bode well for the Alpine

This is why I am skeptical, and I'm finally taking a stance here, I don't think this is a good idea.

Lexus, Infiniti, and Cadillac (to throw an American brand in there) may have been failures in Europe, but Lexus especially does well in North America. It is interesting how the luxury divisions of the Japanese big three have largely struggled outside of our market, and as a Japanese executive, I would really want to see Acura et al. do well globally, especially in places like the Middle East.

Japan may not have the recipe right for Europe in this class, but I could see a better play for these brands in the Middle East and some emerging markets.

[pimento]

The market for the Alpine is probably about the same as the Toyobaru, only it probably skews a little older and a little less 'lets modify this'. So basically the MX-5 crowd, only the Alpine will be worse to drive and it has a roof.

So yea, I don't have a lot of faith in it being a success either. Although, maybe someone will stuff the driveline in a Twingo, at which point the project will be a success in my books.

[Ferrer]

Lexus is the only luxury division (after Audi) that is what we could call a success. Even here in Europe they do moderately well (bearing in mind the limited range of models and lack of suitable powertrains).

It takes a lot of money and effort, ask executives at Volkswagen and Toyota, to make a successful luxury brand stand out in the market places. You need excellent products, undercutting the rivals' prices, lots and lots of marketing and many other things. Ate up with motor's Lexus LS article is particularly insightful.

http://ateupwithmotor.com/model-histories/lexus-ls400/

As for NA sales (Canada + USA), well let's look at the 2015 totals:


Mercedes-Benz 416,787
BMW 381,025
Lexus 366,626
Audi 228,956
Acura 198,168
Cadillac 182,999
Infiniti 144,819
Lincoln 102,413
Volvo 74,835
Jaguar 15,762 (doesn't include LR)


Essentially, BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Lexus play in another league compared to the others; Audi does well because it does well in the rest of the world (the others have no RoW to rely on). Acura outsells Cadillac!

What about Europe?


Audi 767,173
BMW 748,176
Mercedes-Benz 737,278
Volvo 285,861
DS 75,233
Alfa Romeo 56,796
Jaguar 40,268 (doesn't include LR)
Lexus 39,598
Cadillac 590


In this case it's the three Germans which any of them not only outsells all of the others combined but it's almost twice as much as all the others combined. Volvo sells more in Europe than Cadillac (more than 50% more) and for some reason Jaguar outsells Lexus. Infiniti doesn't even feature in the sales charts. DS sales are actually down from 2014 (85,214).

You mention emerging markets, but China apparently is doing as well as it had been hoped (which is the only other market which matters).

So in essence, very difficult to get a slice of this very lucrative market. But they apparently want to try.