during the musclecar era, were there...

[d-quik]

european or asian cars that offered sweet preformance at a relatively low price? (sort of how muscle cars could have been much more expensive than they were). if so, what were some popular/good/classic/notable ones?

thnx my knowledge of old/classic cars is crap

[digitalcraft]

Toyota 2000gt

[Egg Nog]

The 2000GT was not cheap...

In 1967, when a fully-loaded Shelby GT500 Mustang cost around $4200, the 2000GT cost $6800, which is a price increase of more than 50%. Keep in mind that Toyota was a completely different company in 1967. They didn't make economy cars... :)

If we're talking about later on in the Muscle Car era, there were smaller roadsters at fairly low costs. not nearly as much power, of course, but they weren't all slow. How about the MGB or a Porsche 914?

[mawi427]

Plymouth Duster

[henk4]

Muscle cars in the classic american sense were four seaters and due to the enormous market could be produced at relatively low cost. The concept was also simple, put a large engine in a simple chassis, reinforce the brakes and the suspension a little bit and here you go, straight line speed galore. It should also be remembered that car prices in the USA have always been much lower than in Europe, so comparisons are difficult to make.
In Europe at that time there were the classic (cheap) sportscars, two seaters, such as the TR5 and 6 and the MGB, whereby the 2.5 litre TR 6-pot engine was already considered quite big. Comparable 2+2 seaters form the sixties were always smaller (Fiat 124 coupe, Alfa GT) and were much more oriented to handling than to sheer performance. Hot four door saloons there were a few also, with the Giulia TI Super and the BMW 1800TI pioneering that brand. Their BHP (around 110-112) may look pretty low now, but at that time they really blew away the competition. Of course Europe had the expensive cars, Ferrari's Porsches, Astons etc, but that was not the question here. In short at the time of the US muscle cars we had nothing that could compare to the GTO and the 442.

[Egg Nog]

Plymouth Duster

First line of this thread: "european or asian cars that offered sweet preformance at a relatively low price?" ;) :)

[mawi427]

First line of this thread: "european or asian cars that offered sweet preformance at a relatively low price?" ;) :)
annnnnnd summer break kicks in

[Matra et Alpine]

Of course Europe had the expensive cars, Ferrari's Porsches, Astons etc, but that was not the question here. In short at the time of the US muscle cars we had nothing that could compare to the GTO and the 442.
and then the E-typoe arrived :)

[Falcon500]

well During asustralias muscle car era some of the best hadeling Cars around for a decent price where jap the 1600 (510) datsun 1000 was a good car in that respect so was the 240Z...but they where much more expensive then our locally built v8s and didnt have the speed either....They also didnt suit our long ditance travel or our tastes either...ford and holden (with imported Chevrolets) in the 50s and early 60s where an abvious prefernce with ford locally built customlines selling as soon as they built them...we also saw alot of mustang and camro wins in the ATCC...as well as in our production raceing (bathurst 1000 and other popular events) we saw the falcon GTHOs and Monaro GTS' gaining out right vitroys in these races....while the datsuns won their class year in year out that didnt carry the same clout an outright victory had....and we didnt have the cost of fuel to worry about either.....Also part of what stirred this was the american version of out Falcon the Falcon "SPRINT" which out performed the(well some) mustang and gained considrable achievments in rally....
The price the unsuitability...and queastionable styleing is what kept euro cars from being big sellers here...and still does! Jap car havealways sold well but higher prices and again not being a full preference also held them back....

[Matra et Alpine]

hmmm, Lotus Cortina ?

On anything but the driest of circuits would beat the big racing Ford Galaxie.
On dry tracks with long straights the V8 grunt was enough to take a lead, often recovered ( and some ) in any twisty bits Made for great racing :)

[Falcon500]

hmmm, Lotus Cortina ?

On anything but the driest of circuits would beat the big racing Ford Galaxie.
On dry tracks with long straights the V8 grunt was enough to take a lead, often recovered ( and some ) in any twisty bits Made for great racing :)
True words of wisdom...my father both a datsun and ford Gt owner usedto love whatching abthrust where the Ford ATe everything on the straights and the 100 used to hound the absolute hell outof it down the mountain....

[Matra et Alpine]

and of course Alpine A110s and Matra d'jet :)

Light small and very fast.

Europe just has different roads, different driving needs and saught handling and agility over grunt.

[fpv_gtho]

i think you gotta also realise the different motorsport needs different markets would have used them for. whilst america focused mostly on NHRA drag racing it seems, europe and australia to some extent focused more on rally and circut racing

[Falcon500]

Yanks focused more on Stock cars...which where modifyed road going cars that was when american raceing was really kewl :cool:

Personallyid prefer grunt though id thing my opions wouldchange driveing through Sclotland or whales.....

[Matra et Alpine]

Personallyid prefer grunt though id thing my opions wouldchange driveing through Sclotland or whales.....
hey I'm the only one allowed to have crap typing here on UCP :)

Or is that a new country and a larege mammal - could be messy :)

[Falcon500]

hey I'm the only one allowed to have crap typing here on UCP :)

Or is that a new country and a larege mammal - could be messy :)
Dont worry old man you wait till you have a read of a line of the drunken Scotts song in Mishos still alive thread ;)
Wales :p I dont think the Whale would appreciate being driven on...or worse through....Green peace wouldent see the funny side of these posts :rolleyes:

[Mustang]

larege

MUHAHAHA

*Large

you are the true master of bad typing - you know how to spell just your fingers dont know how to type :p

[Matra et Alpine]

MUHAHAHA

*Large

you are the true master of bad typing - you know how to spell just your fingers dont know how to type :p

They used to but their suffering from early senility.

They used to hang out and do bad things when I was younger :)

[NAZCA C2]

Datsuns had good performance and low cost.

[digitalcraft]

Datsuns had good performance and low cost.


And was sold after the toyota 2000gt took off. Even though Datsun originally funded the design, they decided to not make. Toyota did, then datsun came out with their 240z that was nearly the same car. (Both designed by Yamaha)

And yes the 2000gt was expensive, but it was made BECAUSE toyota was then known for dependability and economy.

[henk4]

and then the E-typoe arrived :)

which was not exactly cheap either, but just cheaper :) It also did not seat more than two people. (until the 2+2) arrived

[nrcafootball68]

european or asian cars that offered sweet preformance at a relatively low price? (sort of how muscle cars could have been much more expensive than they were). if so, what were some popular/good/classic/notable ones?

thnx my knowledge of old/classic cars is crap


no all european 'muscle cars' are pieces of crap

[IBrake4Rainbows]

Methinks you Misinterpret him.

He said HIS KNOWLEDGE of old cars was crap, not OLD CARS are crap.

[Matra et Alpine]

no all european 'muscle cars' are pieces of crap
name them.

[Fleet 500]

The 2000GT was not cheap...

In 1967, when a fully-loaded Shelby GT500 Mustang cost around $4200, the 2000GT cost $6800, which is a price increase of more than 50%. Keep in mind that Toyota was a completely different company in 1967. They didn't make economy cars... :)


That's true. I have a magazine with some specs on 1970 cars and the Toyota 2000 GT is listed at $7,150. It had a good top speed of 137 mph., but took 10.1 seconds to get to 60 mph, about the same as a same-year 318 Dodge Dart with economy (2.76) gears. The 2000 GT is also short on power... 150 hp and 130 lbs/ft torque (compared to 230 hp and 320 lbs/ft torque for a 318).

[d-quik]

what were some good cars (european cars) during the 60's and 70's that you could get for the price of a good corvette

[Matra et Alpine]

what were some good cars (european cars) during the 60's and 70's that you could get for the price of a good corvette
Well before I go digging out old mags - can't find original prices on any club sites :( - do we agree that UK prices for ALL cars were double the price of US ? It's a matter of fact that Eureop ain general and UK espcially has high prices for cars. it's nothing to do with cost to build, they chage what they think we'll pay.
Totaly different pricing to the US :(
How do we try to 'compare' equivalanet ????

[fpv_gtho]

Well before I go digging out old mags - can't find original prices on any club sites :( - do we agree that UK prices for ALL cars were double the price of US ? It's a matter of fact that Eureop ain general and UK espcially has high prices for cars. it's nothing to do with cost to build, they chage what they think we'll pay.
Totaly different pricing to the US :(
How do we try to 'compare' equivalanet ????


just have a look at that thread i made UK vs US vs OZ Matra, and you'll see your getting screwed around with the Monaro

[d-quik]

Well before I go digging out old mags - can't find original prices on any club sites :( - do we agree that UK prices for ALL cars were double the price of US ?

How do we try to 'compare' equivalanet ????
yes, i CAN agree to that

so i guess the new question is what are some good european cars that you can get for that cost less than or around the price of two corvettes

[Adrian]

wow!!!what a bomb

[jcp123]

easy. take a Z-car, drop in a 383, and you have an asian-built, muscle-powered sports car. not that expensive, i wouldn't think, either.

[charged]

easy. take a Z-car, drop in a 383, and you have an asian-built, muscle-powered sports car. not that expensive, i wouldn't think, either.Why wreck a sweet handling car with such a heavy motor what about a 855ci Cummins diesel :D You can get some pretty big hp figures out of the nissan 6 in the 240-260z

[Sharpie]

Haha. What about a twin Merlins...or you couls just drop in an RB26 and churn out 1100hp.

[DodgeNitroBIRM]

Why wreck a sweet handling car with such a heavy motor what about a 855ci Cummins diesel :D You can get some pretty big hp figures out of the nissan 6 in the 240-260z

BECAUSE, during the muscle car era it was all about drag racing. That was the popular thing to do! If anyone had thought about it at the time, that car would have become what the mid to late 70s Nova became. Also, during that time, the Datsun 240Z was a 4 cylinder (if I remember correctly). ALSO during that time, the horsepower figures you see out of that six cylinder just weren't possible at the time. I mean, supercharges for the bracket and heads-up classes didn't come into play until the end of the Era. Turbos have just started to get popular in the non-import dominated classes. If you look at the Fun Ford Weekend's Pro-5.0, it's just started to use turbos in the mid to late 90's.

[taz_rocks_miami]

Why wreck a sweet handling car with such a heavy motor what about a 855ci Cummins diesel :D You can get some pretty big hp figures out of the nissan 6 in the 240-260z

You can buy aluminum small block V8s for about $3,000.00 USD. Besides, I seen iron V8 Z cars and they handle very well....and go like a poor mans Cobra!!!

[Matra et Alpine]

BECAUSE, during the muscle car era it was all about drag racing. That was the popular thing to do!
Going back to the original question about waht was 'sweet' I'd have to say you wouldnt' need to touch a 240Z as it was already a WORLD WINNING car in rallying with the straight 6.
NOT all competition was drag-racing :)
and some muscle-cars were tried in rallying by a few brave folks but with distinct lack of real success :(
So, it's not really required to downgrade a 240Z with a bigger engine to make it 'sweet'.
And if anyoen has a 240Z they can't stand because it's too slow or handles badly in their mind then drop me a line, I'd GLADLY put one back on the roads for rallying. In the UK they're expensive :(

[fpv_gtho]

and some muscle-cars were tried in rallying by a few brave folks but with distinct lack of real success :(


Some crazy people out here quite successfully rallied Falcon GT's, i believe even one of the 3 XA GTHO race cars was converted to a rally spec car

[charged]

You can buy aluminum small block V8s for about $3,000.00 USD. Besides, I seen iron V8 Z cars and they handle very well....and go like a poor mans Cobra!!!Dollar per hP bloke I know bgot a v12 BMW engine from a fire and theft car 3grand,twin gtr turbos1grand ,gtr 32 intercooler 300bucks,600hp @6psi,14psi over 1000bhp got dyno sheets to prove it now thats cheap horsepower,no internal engine mods all stock apart from changing static comp ratio, in a rod GIDDY UP :D

[charged]

Some crazy people out here quite successfully rallied Falcon GT's, i believe even one of the 3 XA GTHO race cars was converted to a rally spec carGood fun though :D

[fpv_gtho]

yeah, well back in the early 70's, there wasnt any 4wd rally cars going around so they were really all just Falcon GT's (reason why Ford had the option to put the black anti glare patches on GT's) and probably some monaros and kingswoods, not the mention the odd datsun

[taz_rocks_miami]

Going back to the original question about waht was 'sweet' I'd have to say you wouldnt' need to touch a 240Z as it was already a WORLD WINNING car in rallying with the straight 6.
NOT all competition was drag-racing :)
and some muscle-cars were tried in rallying by a few brave folks but with distinct lack of real success :(
So, it's not really required to downgrade a 240Z with a bigger engine to make it 'sweet'.
And if anyoen has a 240Z they can't stand because it's too slow or handles badly in their mind then drop me a line, I'd GLADLY put one back on the roads for rallying. In the UK they're expensive :(

I would hardly call putting a small block in a 240Z downgrading it Matra, the straight 6 is a very good engine, I've seen them hopped up to over 300 HP. The V8 240Zs do very well in modified SCCA road racing competitions in the US, and believe me, they handle very well and will outrun almost anything:) True V8s do weigh a bit more than the straight 6, but for road racing and drag racing, they give you HP and low end torque.

I had a 240Z back in college that I bought for about $1,500.00 USD in good condition, while I really liked the straight 6, I always wished I'd put a 350 Chevy in it, never got around to it though :(

[jcp123]

Why wreck a sweet handling car with such a heavy motor what about a 855ci Cummins diesel :D You can get some pretty big hp figures out of the nissan 6 in the 240-260z

i dont doubt it. too high strung for my tastes though. someone here wanted a car that had sweet handling and muscle car performance, that's the ticket.

[PsychoChimp22]

I think we can all agree that the BEST car ever releaced during this time was the AMC Pacer!!! LOL :D:D:D

http://www.amcpacer.com/cgi-bin/archives.cgi?num=50&s=1

[gtrjazz]

NO. When I was 13 up watched all the road movies Two lane Black top ,Bullet ,Vanishing Point and wanted 55 Chevys, Shelby Mustangs, Dodge Challangers Etc but did not have the money to import any so the Legend grew. Much the same thing is happening with Skylines at the moment for most American people.So if you want to swap your Shelby Mustang Etc please PM me :)

[Falcon500]

yeah, well back in the early 70's, there wasnt any 4wd rally cars going around so they were really all just Falcon GT's (reason why Ford had the option to put the black anti glare patches on GT's) and probably some monaros and kingswoods, not the mention the odd datsun
You forgot the toranas....and the rs escorts....and we also had other imports running but lack of factory support limited them...