New Magna

[Falcon500]

I think this current look is mitsubishis idea of making world cars that look very uniform. The idea is that if a look proves popular the rest will change like it.

[fpv_gtho]

well they couldve picked a better look to start with

[Falcon500]

I only could wish

[fpv_gtho]

the new look looks better on the lancer than it does on the magna though, kinda like fords new edge designing, it looked alright on small cars like the focus but something the size of the falcon shows how shit it is

[Falcon500]

it just dont suite larger cars i would of them just rehash the old model with all the extra gear.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but that wouldnt have gotten them anymore sales. the new look at least makes the car look fresher

[Falcon500]

Granted but the old one wast that bad looking you have to admit. I stang by what i say when they should of kept the current model and put all the fruit on it. Im also a little dissapointed they wernt going to make that v8 awd vr-X

[fpv_gtho]

where did u hear about that one?

[Falcon500]

That was one of the many rumors that were spawned when they were planning on making an entry in v8 super cars the boss gave me a funny look and siad i dont think its gonna happen.

[fpv_gtho]

soem people would probably enjoy seeing the old ford vs holden vs chrylser rivalry return though

[pato]

new magna takes ugly mitsubishi's to the next level - look at those headlights!

[fpv_gtho]

its called a corporate face, get used to it. the pajero and outlander already had it, he just got the lancer and magna with it and we've yet to get the colt. no one would hate it more than falcon500, he works around them

[pato]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
its called a corporate face, get used to it. the pajero and outlander already had it, he just got the lancer and magna with it and we've yet to get the colt. no one would hate it more than falcon500, he works around them

just cause its on all their cars doesnt mean we have to like it

[fpv_gtho]

australia is one of the smallest automotive markets in the world. on the global scale it doesnt matter what we think

[pato]

i know that but this is a forum where u post ur opinions so get used to people saying it how they think it is

[Falcon500]

Well they are ugly I might no longer have to only just wash them our yard man got the boot and i put my hand up for the job (crosses fingers) But yeah get used to it mate the new world cars that a lot of manufactors will be making will look similar worldwide some places will like it others wont just wait till a lot of others adopt that view also.

[pato]

if they look that bad now imagine what they will look like in two years

good luck for the yard man position

[fpv_gtho]

in two years the magnas replacement will hopefully be here. ford tried global styling with their "new edge" designing, first shown on the gt90. i think it worked on all but the falcon, now i think everyones using toned down version of it, like the new mondeo and the BA.

[Falcon500]

Ty for your support
In 2 years time they will be into the face lift for the next model id expect and i dont think it could get much worse from here. The camry looks a bit auish also but its boot line reminds me of a p76 (its aparently even bigger boot space then the p76)

[fpv_gtho]

well if you have a look at the history of the current magna back to 96, they havent really done anything that major. the new face is by far the most distinquishable mod done, so maybe weve seen the worst

[pato]

hopefully, but i bet it will turn off many of its older buyers because it stands out too much for a magna

[fpv_gtho]

well once some more CH lancers hit the streets they wont be so unique on the road

[pato]

still pig ugly

[fpv_gtho]

ive seen worse

[pato]

worse? okay exculding the pontiac GTO with its shit front fascia name one worse than the mitsubishis

[fpv_gtho]

4 words: pontiac aztek/toyota matrix

[Falcon500]

mercades smart thats uglier and any dawoo.

[fpv_gtho]

KLUGER!! is it just me or does it look like a jacked up subaru forester. they shouldve used the name highlander like they do overseas. i cant believe toyota australia actually think that in a year or so people will be used to that name and think nothing of it

[pato]

have u seen the dash in the new ford focus? it is a discrace!

[fpv_gtho]

thats just your opinion. it may not be as good as the falcon xt's dash but i could learn to live with it

[Falcon500]

a disgrace yes it must be how many car of the year awards has it racked up now like 13 or somthing?

[pato]

dude have u sat in one? the dash has all these lines cut through it and is all straight edged then curvy all of a sudden it looks like a dogs breakfast trying to be too modern id say

[Falcon500]

I have sat in one there was nothing wrong with it if you want weird in a dashboard sit in a citroen. The dash is well sort out and fairly functional its just the european styling somthing well have to put up with more and more.

[pato]

well european styling is shit

[Falcon500]

Well get used to it thats the way all cars are moving holden has a big restyle comming and guess what theyll probly follow the trend.

[pato]

hopefully we will still have a few elements of the old cars left though

[Falcon500]

Yeah none of this retro shit like the dials on the VY for example i prefer the executive facia then the SS's one. just hope for somthing nice.

[fpv_gtho]

from what ive heard the VE commodores gunna look like a stretched, proper 4 door rx8, based on the opel insignia and chevrolet ss concept

[Falcon500]

I dont like that i think all those GM products you just mentioned are ugly.

[fpv_gtho]

well the ss concept has some nice lines to it, and the insignia looks too much like a hatchback, but theyre definately paying too much attention to the styling of the rx8. im surprised mazda themselves hasnt made any actions against them, especially agaisnt chev for the ss

[Falcon500]

Well it is very hard to claim anything as origoanl nowdays but i dont know maybey the cost involved wouldent be worth it?

[fpv_gtho]

well GM's trying to cut costs by jointly developing the VE commodore to be a global car to be badged also as a chev in the us and an opel in europe

[Falcon500]

Sounds like a good idea in theory but will it work?and will gm follow its current treand an bollux it up?

[fpv_gtho]

well lost of things sound good in theory, people probably thought fords new edge designing sounded good, and the idea of a global face for mitsubishi, but look where that put the falcon and i think the magnas headed to a similar fate, although with only 2 years until the replacement not as much damage can be done to mitsubishi as was done to ford. luckily geoff polites and william clay ford jnr came

[Falcon500]

wonder if the ba facelift will be any diffrent?

[fpv_gtho]

well its not the right model to change any of the sheetmetal so headlights and tailights have to stay the same shape, the tailights already have clear indicators so they cant put them in so i guess theyve left themselves to major bodykit changes and the usual new sets of wheel and interior designs

[Falcon500]

Well hopfully the improve or at least make it just as good.

[fpv_gtho]

well theyre gunna need to make it better when holdens going to be trying to get back on top with the VZ

[Falcon500]

Well them trying and them doing somthing are 2 completly differnt things they attempted to make the unltimate aussie road car that fell through their ideas dont seem to last.

[fpv_gtho]

there styling doesnt last either. can you believe the same person designed the monaro AND the vy?

[Falcon500]

Well we know who to blame for the both of them then.

[fpv_gtho]

the point i was making was the monaro was supposed to be one of the most beautiful holden designs ever, yet the VY looks like its got styling cues form everything else

[Falcon500]

Bad person to use it on i dont view the monaro beatiful at all! Ive been in them ive looked at them and hell ive drivan one not phased at all. But the VY is just not good looking and the sries 2 isnt much improved looks like next model will be the chagne holden fans are after.

[crisis]

There are a lot of people buying VYs so obviously the styling thing is subjective. Many people did not like the VT when they first saw it but it is regarded as one of the best looking Commodores now. I think the VZ will be radically different and will also cause much controversy. Ford will have a bigger problem on their hands however as they have been extremely conservative with the BA in response to the poor sales performance of the AU. I wil require a great leap of faith for them to design anything too radical however they cannot stand still and risk being left behing as far a styling gos.

[fpv_gtho]

well we cant expect as great a change between vy and vz as there was between vx and vy as holden has to keep the same sheetmetal, but the sports versions could get more hsv like bodykits to try counter any work ford may do to muscle up the looks of the xr and fpv range. yes ford will be conservative but the BA has settled in nicely with australians unlike the AU where the series 2 version had no hope of saving sales. ford has strung a good note with BA so theyll be taking a different approach to the BA2 then what they did to the AU2. i think FPV will respond to the claims that thier cars styling are too conservative for a gt model and that they arent willing to take as big a step in styling as HSV are

[Falcon500]

Ummm im taking crisis side its still to early to try anything out of the ordinary there still is the chance it might fail.

[fpv_gtho]

well over the past couple of months, there'd be a good feeling throughout the broadmeadows plant, as ford have been for a couple of months outselling the combined /sedan/ute/wagon sales to holden and now eclipsing their sedan/wagon sales so theyd be thinking they could get away with some stuff

[Falcon500]

Well well see ideas that their having soon enough they be planning already what they want to do with the cars so well probly have picture by the start of next year.

[fpv_gtho]

well holden usually change their quarterly upgrades more so than ford so im expecting more or less the same exterior from ford

[Falcon500]

Hmm well you never know in hoping they ont spil the bas look and improve on the cars few short commings.

[fpv_gtho]

i think mainly theyll introduce a hell of alot more exterior options, similar to holden by design

[Falcon500]

Id hope for them to look very diffrent rather then having them look more and more the same.

[fpv_gtho]

well if they change them too much they may hurt their resale values which o dont think ford wants right now

[Falcon500]

yeah thats true ive noticed the VYs are depreciating faster then they have in recent history.

[fpv_gtho]

that could be because of the "contraversial" design of the VY. we had 6 years of VT/VX curves and now weve got 4 years of VY/VZ angles, or maybe because of the minor mechanical upgrades people are seeing the VY as another 2 year update rather than a mid life update though thats a pretty stupid comment

[Falcon500]

It looks like a 2 year update to me rather then a revised model. It is revised but just doesnt look it.

[fpv_gtho]

thats not a bad point. maybe people are being confused because of the effort put in by ford

[Falcon500]

Thats a possability also when ever some one talks about a new model rumors fly around left right and centre for a time ther the BA was in fact supposed to be called the AV and was going to be 4.6 powerd its hard to keep track of new models espacially when theres a lot of hype floating about.

[fpv_gtho]

there were rumours of a 220kw turbo xr6, 240kw 4.6 xr8, 270kw 5.4 gt and over 300kw gtho. the only thing thats stayed is the power intervals between xr6t, xr8 and gt. they originally found the 4.6 wasnt torqey enough and the 2 valve 5.4 wasnt quite powerful enough. right until the launch of the exterior they were calling it the AV then sprung the name change with the exterior

[Falcon500]

The AV concet looked like a good car but part of the reason the called it the BA was they didnt want it to have anything to do with the AU (which is also funny i can still spot some similaritys)

[fpv_gtho]

i dunno how many people wouldve hated the 2002 model because of an AU connection in its model designation but ford might have a bit of trouble choosing the next model name, whether they go for BC or maybe skip a few and go with BE

[Falcon500]

Dont know that one will remian to be seen. I cant wait untill say 15 years odd time when the cars get cheaper id love to own one.

[fpv_gtho]

well my brother reckons people are gunna respect the AU's styling more in 15 years time. he actually wants ford to go back to the AU's styling

[Falcon500]

Welll the au was a good thing from my point of view in 15 years theyll be cheap as shit.

[fpv_gtho]

well in 15 years we'll be treating them like we treat EA falcons now

[Falcon500]

I dont think well treat them as lowly they were good car but had a few redeming fetures the EA didnt 4 speed autos better engines and v8 engines.

[fpv_gtho]

well the EB was almost as big a turnaround as the BA. ive got a friend though that wont touch an EA but he lives EB's and now is on his second car, an ED, after crashing his first car an EB

[Falcon500]

The EAs wenrt so bad they had problems but their fairly easily fixed though id still much rather an EB or ED.

[fpv_gtho]

the EB had all those subtle styling changes that didnt make the car look as cheap i reckon, plus multipoint fuel injection engines

[Falcon500]

yeah the EBs were good but the EDs were better again the eb fixed a lot of the eas short commings espcially with the 4 liter motor that was a good step and the xr6 S pack was great and the reintroduction of the xr8

[fpv_gtho]

its too bad there was only about 20kw difference between the 6 and 8 though

[Falcon500]

yeah and the xr6 was faster the 8 had 8 kw more then hodens engine which was 160kw and motor raved about fords new v8 then.

[fpv_gtho]

well waddaya know, weve gone back to the EB days where the XR6 is quicker than the XR8. 160kw by todays standards doesnt seem very much, yet if someone was to get an EB V8 they'd think it would have plenty of power

[Falcon500]

the xr6t is not faster thent he xr8 but its damn near but still the 160kw wuidnsor seems tame by todays standards but it still will move a basic 3.9 ea can do 200 and thats witrh a fair bit to spare all the newer baseline cars are faster then you might think and hell look at the BA an XT can cut a high 15 now for your bread and butter mdoel thats damn good VPs and EBs used to do that youll notice while driveng one of them the cars are lighter have a better exaust note and probly pick up a little faster up hill.

[fpv_gtho]

the quickest times ive seen for the XR6T and XR8 have been 5.9 and 6.1 0-100km/h but the gap closes down the quarter mile

[Falcon500]

People are paying close attention to the XR6 more becuase all our local car mage (minus the commadore ones) are giving up a lot of collum space to put all the info on the tuned XR6Ts for about 3 months now street machine has a peice on them wheels has had a few page write up motor has had a few bits and peices BOOST has had several big articles on it and performance ford mage has a peice on it every issue and AMC (austrlain Muscle car) have had a few smallish peices on it.

[fpv_gtho]

well thats alot of effort people are putting in, its no wonder people are predicting it will be the next cult car. id like to see whether a turbo HFV6 is as easy to tune though, as holden most definately will put out a turbo commodore V6

[Falcon500]

Well holden as plannign on makeing a turbo motor with the current HSV it had wait for it 239kw but it fell through.

[crisis]

Waste of time making a sub 240kw 6cl HSV when you can buy a 245kw SV8 for $40000. Then spend the rest of the money you saved on extra goodies. $150 K&N air filter, $400 SS inductions cold air intake and $1500 on extractors and exhaust. You would still probably have change from the HSV price to put a good CD player in if only it was possible..

[fpv_gtho]

well although the $49K XU-6 fell through when ford released details for the XR6T then fulfilled the promise, HSV said the extra $10K over the S supercharged, although only 9kw more, was "cheap" entry into an HSV. holden wont leave the 6 cylinder market to the XR6T and although it has its own SV8 to get around, not only is it turbo 6 power to 8, but id say the actual car minus the engines would be vastly different. i reckon though that after HSV pulled the plug on the XU-6 that holden shouldve taken the 180kw 6 for the S supercharged

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
well although the $49K XU-6 fell through when ford released details for the XR6T then fulfilled the promise, HSV said the extra $10K over the S supercharged, although only 9kw more, was "cheap" entry into an HSV. holden wont leave the 6 cylinder market to the XR6T and although it has its own SV8 to get around, not only is it turbo 6 power to 8, but id say the actual car minus the engines would be vastly different. i reckon though that after HSV pulled the plug on the XU-6 that holden shouldve taken the 180kw 6 for the S supercharged
HSV may have a little more to play with when the new 6 is in the cars. The flexibility of maybe being able to work with the engine plant itself. I still fail to see the point in worrying about 6 cylinders in HSVs when it is always going to be a backward step from the V8 in the same body.

[fpv_gtho]

well until HSV get the HFV6, making a V6 HSV is gunna be considered a backwards step compared to the current outputs of the gen3. if they had the 180kw six when they were still making 220kw GTS's, then it wouldve been accepted. holden have said that they will be able to make turbo HFV6's and after seeing the huge public response to the XR6T (possibly only down to the fact its the same interior as the XR8, $6K cheaper and slightly faster) they will be considering putting the engine in one of their cars

[Falcon500]

Yeah but the gen IV is supposed to be all that much better then the gen three and it is supposed to top out at around 6.somthing liters so the hfv6 will seem as limp wristed as the current v6 sitting next to it.

[fpv_gtho]

well especially for the HFV6, holden wont stretch it out right to the full potential cause they like their cars to be able to handle 91 RON petrol which might restrict power slightly but who really knows where theyre gunna take the outputs of either of the engines. they could keep them at similar levels to what they are now and chase after better fuel economy

[Falcon500]

Yeah that is also all well and true but with a new model impending the weight of the car will more then likly ballon kerbing the power these flash new engines have look at the BA if the norman barra 6 was in an au you migh see a high 14 instead of the mid 15 it gets in the ba

[fpv_gtho]

well holden apparently copped alot for the increase in weight for the VT, but the barra182 in an AU would be competitive to a series 1 AU XR8 which i think was getting high 14's. ford still have a little more room to extract power out of the 6 amongst the usual gains from further development to the engine over time, but they might go towards the XR6

[Falcon500]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
ford still have a little more room to extract power out of the 6 amongst the usual gains from further development to the engine over time, but they might go towards the XR6
My thougghs exactly and ive seen the world car concept for the holden VE andi peronally dont like it it looks wreid im curious wether the public will lap it up like prevois models.

[fpv_gtho]

the inpression om getting from it is holden's going for another bold new change like they did for the VN and VT, but this time it might not work as well

[Falcon500]

Well thats all a guess dont forget holden has a cant do wrong thing aroua sort of thing around it. Much like peter brock he can do whatever he wants to a good portion of his fans and basicly get away with it (as i saw him do at the STPP motorsport opening) he was a bit of a snob and more then a little rude when i met him.
But cheack out the motor issue with the grren avalanche on the cover they have a motorshow caoverage from hamburg and they have pics of what the commadore will be based on and it is weird looking at best for the moment.

[fpv_gtho]

well i have to say, holden have come out with alot of love it or hate it designs lately, especially the VY in my opinion, and i dont think its gunna take them forward if they keep it up

[Falcon500]

Well as we have said before look what happened to ford when they tried somthing diffrent it bit them in the arse. The probly cant do any wrong but that wont be doing things right from what ive seen.

[fpv_gtho]

well people will be looking hard at ford to see whether they repeat themselves, but ford have admitted, getting the BA right put them under pressure they dont expect to experience any time soon

[Falcon500]

Well they still arnt under great pressure they still have a very good sales position but that does seem to be slipping a bit. I think the next model will defintly have a much diffrent face and diffrent tail end also.

[fpv_gtho]

well ford cant really afford to go all out spending yet, theyve only just gotten back out of the red. pretty much any serious amount of money they want to spend they have to ask for from detroit

[Falcon500]

Which is not ery likely since ford are making the new GT and are consdiering making a new crown vic and the new mustang...

[fpv_gtho]

i almost forgot the debts ford america would be getting into, the whole american auto industry is in a massive decline at the moment

[Falcon500]

I wouldent say debts but massive expenditures on these new models. I think the BA will be mostly cosmetic then anything else with the BAII although there are the whispers of new gear boxes as well as a diet for the very bulky BA.

[fpv_gtho]

well ford confirmed high series falcons getting the ZF 6 speed auto jaguar use and there were heaps of people saying ford would try and shed weight from the BA but ford said that thier major concern was improving fuel economy and the weight of the BA was its trick to getting a good crash result.

[Falcon500]

Well weight also= more fuel eccomy with other fringe benifts but to keep the crash rating will require $$$ somthing they dont have. Bit also dont forget to really improve the car theyll need to improve the whole range not just the one i hope they have improved that base model donk for more ecconmy.

[fpv_gtho]

well the XR6 is probably selling the best it ever has, but id say theres still buyers deciding not to buy one cause they reckon a standard XT could go just as fast if not faster, so ford might be working on a higher power XR6 engine and in non sports applications trade extra power for extra economy, that seems like a cheap enough resolution to two problems

[Falcon500]

Well the XR6 has always had somthing the base model had the way it used to be uprated suspension,sportier interior and a more powerful engine now its just suspension and interior and i dont know about that nearly everysingle BA i see here is an XR6

[fpv_gtho]

well although it has the standard 6, its by no means not sporty

[Falcon500]

Well a 15.5 1/4 and the XTs 15.8 1/4 you can see the improvement on the car performance as well as turning amazing what suspension changes can do inspite of the XTs better weight 1694 (XT with extra air bags and rear power windows and adjustable pedals) to the XR6s 1710 (premium breaks,side air bags and adjustable pedals) there is a lot of potentail there if they add in some minor performance mods.

[fpv_gtho]

i didnt realise the XR's had standard side aribags

[Falcon500]

They dont im just listing all the options because i cant find their unoptioned weights and as i say it all adds up you might find a good many kilos taken off with out all them options.

[fpv_gtho]

well wouldnt the weight quoted at the back of wheels magazine or motor be accurate?

[Falcon500]

To be honest i didnt think of that i was looking at the cars they used for the comparisn tests.:D

[fpv_gtho]

well i woulnt exactly call it accurate either though, both magazines think the XR6T weighs differently, motor thinks its the same as an XT, wheels thinks its about 40kg heavier

[Falcon500]

Well id take wheels opinion on it turbo gear is heavy as with the higher spec trim uprated suspension and the slighly bigger breaks they come out with...if anything youd be lucky if its only 40 kilos.

[fpv_gtho]

well the XR's only come standard with the basic brake package, its a $3000 option for the ventilated rears and bigger front discs

[Falcon500]

From what i inderstand their standard break package is reminiscent to the standard one on the GT (twin piston calipers andsmaller rotors) notthe XTfalcons and similar.

[fpv_gtho]

well theres the performance brakes, brembo brakes and standard brakes. all FORDS come with the standard brakes and all FPV's come with the performance brakes standard, except GT-P

[fpv_gtho]

the standard brakes consisting of a 298mm front ventilated and grooved disc with a 303mm solid rear disc, 2 piston fron caliper and single piston rear. the performance brakes upgrade to a ventilated and grooved rear disc and a 325mm front disc and the brembos have 4 piston front and rear calipers, 355mm front ventilated and cross drilled rotors and 330mm rears to the same specification. the difference in the brembo calipers being the front pistons are abotu 40mm wide and the rears are about 30mm