New Magna

[LowRider]

Anybody seen the new Magna? if you have what do you think of its design?. I personly think that the headlights are to big and they are to far up the front bonnet

[fpv_gtho]

i think theyll be selling less magnas now since they changed the look of it. the front end styling doesnt match the rest of the car like the camry which it looks like. they could have at least changed the shape of the tailights if they want this to last till 2005

[LowRider]

yeah could not have put it better myself. is that going to be around till 2005?.
I did work experience at Mitsubishi and that came in and i had a look under the bonnet and inside the engines are exactly the same and the tail lights are the same just lifted up a bit.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah 2005 comes the all new magna, which the australian government had to give them a grant to help them develop it and as well in 2006 comes a lwb version to compete with the fairlane and statesman. the lwb could also mean a crack at the ute market, but there wont be a wagon apparently

[LowRider]

I somehow think that they will not get a good enough lwb to compete with ford and holden. Will they bring out a ute you reckon?
I think they need a V8 what do you reckon?

[fpv_gtho]

i think they may consider a ute, but fords dominance in the ute market wouldnt bring them much sales, plus theyd need a rwd platform first for it to work on something that size. i think they want to bring out a V8, and i think mitsu japan has a 4.5L DOHC V8 in a limo type car sold over there that could be used

[crisis]

A V8 front wheel drive Magna! Misterbishi should leave V8s to the experts.

[LowRider]

hey talking about falcon utes what is it with them and the gap between the caban and the tray at the back? they would look mad if they left that out

[LowRider]

hey if they did bring out a V8 in a Magna reckon they would try and get into the V8 Supercars? they should stick to rallying if you ask me

[crisis]

Originally posted by LowRider
hey if they did bring out a V8 in a Magna reckon they would try and get into the V8 Supercars? they should stick to rallying if you ask me
Id love to see em in Supercars. MOre the merrier. As long as they fit the formula.

[fpv_gtho]

the falcon utes have the gap bewteen the tray and cabin so ford dont have to waste money engineering two seperate variants for a ute and one tonner. mitsubishi r currently talkin to avesco and cams about entering the v8 supercars and at the earliest could get in at about 2005

[BaRRa]

Originally posted by crisis
Id love to see em in Supercars. MOre the merrier. As long as they fit the formula.

Ford's ute is known as a 'cab-chassis' design.

[LowRider]

well what ever you call it I dont like it.
I reckon the Holden utes are better

[fpv_gtho]

the holden utes have been proven worse. they can carry less than half the amount of the fords, have been proven my motor magazine that they handle worse and tow worse

[LowRider]

Notice how this has gone from the new magna to Holden and Ford utes?. Anyway do you think that if they make a Magna ute that it will be better then then the Holden ute?

[fpv_gtho]

it will be front wheel drive, that says it all

[LowRider]

Where did you get that info. from?

[fpv_gtho]

i didnt get it from anywhere, just that the magna sedan is front wheel drive. if they were smart theyd make it awd

[LowRider]

Yeah that would be a smart idea. Could you imagine a VRX ute? cause i could not

[fpv_gtho]

what about a ralliart ute

[LowRider]

It sounds good but i dont think it would work with a ute tray on the back of it.
What do you think?

[fpv_gtho]

well hsv want to try it with the maloo, and it can be easily done with an fpv pursuit, just take the tub off the back, simple

[LowRider]

Will ford make a GT ute you reckon?

[fpv_gtho]

the pursuit was instead of a gt ute. they used it cause of the success of the xr8 pursuit 200 and xr8 pursuit 250. the top of the line ute lately has always been called pursuit so i guess they wanted to keep that for now

[LowRider]

Being a Holden fan I hate Fords, but those Pursuit utes look really good. Do they sell any of them?

[fpv_gtho]

about 20% of fpv's sales are for the pursuits.

[fpv_gtho]

i dont see why most of fords utes are about $4K cheaper than the sedan equivalents but the XR8 utes $10K cheaper than the sedan

[LowRider]

I never see many of them on the road. Ive seen a couple of AU ones but thats it.

[LowRider]

I be stuffed if i know why either. Just tell em to save there money and buy a Holden.

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
the holden utes have been proven worse. they can carry less than half the amount of the fords, have been proven my motor magazine that they handle worse and tow worse

That was of course before Holden re released the one tonner. The other Holden ute used independant rear suspension which is a joke for something that is supposed to carry loads.

[fpv_gtho]

holdens target buyer for the irs holden ute isnt the typical tradesman, its the people who'd go out and buy a hilux cab chassis, stick a fox decal on the rear winscreen and 17" rims and crome exhaust tip. holden even consider it a sports car

[crisis]

If an SS sedan is a sports car then so is a SS ute. Just lighter and cheaper. Must admit utes dont do much for me though.

[fpv_gtho]

utes are hardly lighter than their sedan equivalents these days.

[crisis]

How much does a back seat, two doors and a couple of windows weigh. Not totally insignificant.

[fpv_gtho]

how about the extra wheelbase and structural strength in utes. all the things lost from the sedan are just counteracted with the length and estra strengthening of the ute

[crisis]

Need specs to settle this.

[fpv_gtho]

falcon xl styleside box standard suspensioin: 1680kg
falcon xt sedan: 1672kg

holden commodore ute: 1478kg
holden commodore executive: 1526kg

falcon xr6 turbo styleside box: 1755kg
falcon xr8 styleside box: 1800kg
falcon xr6 turbo sedan: 1732
falcon xr8 sedan: 1795kg

holden commodore ss ute: 1560kg
holden commodore ss sedan: 1627kg

source: wheels magazine

[crisis]

Well done. Its an intersting insight into design of both camps. Fords utes are uniformly heavier than the sedans where the opposite is true for Holdens. Do the Faclon utes run independant rear suspension?

[fpv_gtho]

nope, unlike holden they wanted them to be known as a workhorse not a 2 door, big boot sports car

[fpv_gtho]

the falcon utes are probably so close to their sedan equivalents weight because of its hybrid chassis design underneath all the ute models where the cabin is monocoque and the back is seperate box section chassis

[LowRider]

Why are the Falcon Utes so heavy for? is there a reason behind that?

[fpv_gtho]

cause of how strong the body is

[Nildo]

The Ford chassis is much, much more advanced than the Holden equivalent, and is far stronger, which is why it weighs more. The Holden one tonner ute in SS guise weighs 1520 kg, continuing the trend that Crisis notes, that the Utes in the Holden range are lighter than the sedans, but the gap is much smaller.

[fpv_gtho]

holden dont make an ss one tonner, they only make a one tonner and one tonner s

[LowRider]

They may be strong but if they run into an older falcon or charger theyll be stuffed

[fpv_gtho]

any car would u idiot

[crisis]

Originally posted by LowRider
They may be strong but if they run into an older falcon or charger theyll be stuffed
Of course the occupants of the later model car would have more chance of survival.

[Nildo]

Oops, you are right Fpv. I meant the V8 optioned one tonner, which is the S. Sorry.

[LowRider]

I know that but FPV_GTHO said the new falcons utes are strong.

[LowRider]

Anyone round here like the new Onetonner? i like the acr but i like the ad even more

[fpv_gtho]

the falcon utes r strong compared to most other large cars on the market today. the AU falcon was marginally stronger than the VT/VX and the BA is 88% stronger than the AU, although for the ute its probably only about 50%. and about the new one tonner, could holden have picked a worse naming scheme? when comparing it to the falcon equivalents on the holden website, the name of the holden ended up being holden one tonner one tonner or holden one tonner one tonner s, couldnt they have gone with something like holden commodore one tonner/one tonner s? the same applies with their commo utes

[LowRider]

Beside the names what do you think of the car.
P.S have you seen the ad for it?

[fpv_gtho]

yes ive seen the ad and i reckon its about a millimetre away from breaking that new rule set to australian car manufacturers stopping ford racing the spirit of australia jet engined car and the ss ute causing desert tornadoes

[LowRider]

I hate that rule its bull, man those old ford ads with its ute and the ss doing burnouts were really good and the background music was even better. Bring em back

[fpv_gtho]

get a german in parliament as transport minister and it may happen. we may also see unlimited speed stretches on motorways and freeways then. only the european governments can realise people concentrate better at higher speeds and being told to stay to strict speeds for long distances causes accidents, instead of preventing them

[LowRider]

Why do we want a german in parliment for? this is Australia not germany.
If they do that to moterways theyll become drag strips

[fpv_gtho]

speak for yourself, but theres a reason why even with its far less population, the northern territory barely ever has a christmas or easter holiday road toll: unlimited speed highways. and the motorways wont be unrestricted fully, in germany, they have sections that are specific speeds dependant on the conditions, like they won make it unlimited near on and off ramps, only on nice, liong straight sections. the french government actually just recently adjusted their top speed limits from 110km/h to 130m/h

[LowRider]

i will, but if you dont have a spped limit everyone will be having drag races up the streets. But how mad would it be flying up the road at 200ks an hour?

[fpv_gtho]

it would be good, but people wouldnt do it much, for instance, the holden commo sv8's been clocked by wheels magazine doing about 265km/h down a dragstrip, but do u thik the car was built to do that day in, day out? probably one of the reasons why the falcons now come with speed limiters, 200 for the xt, 20 for fairmont ghia, 230 for xr and pursuit and 250 for the gt's and gt-p's. i reckon though, without the limiter and enough torque, the gt could go 300km/h, cause it doesn 250km/h at about 4900rpm, and its redline is 6000

[fpv_gtho]

210 for the fairmont ghia

[LowRider]

Why have a Fairmont Ghia when you can have a Caprice?

[fpv_gtho]

urr, the fairmont ghia and caprice arent in each others class

[LowRider]

Arnt they, then what class are they in?

[fpv_gtho]

the fairmont ghia is in the extreme luxury swb class and is against the holden calais. the caprice is the top of the line car in holdens range and is against the LTD, or G220 if u want better performance, but the G220 is based on the Fairlane Ghia

[LowRider]

ok i did not know that but i do now. but still GO THE CAPRICE!

[fpv_gtho]

u notice how the LTD and Caprice arent really competing with each other on the same level any more, theyre still going for each others sales though

[fpv_gtho]

so much for this forum being about the new magna, it went from the magna, to the magna in the v8's, to holden and ford utes, to a magna ute, to fords pursuit utes, to the irs under holedn commo utes and the different sales pitch than the new one tonner, to the weight comparisons of utes and sedans, then to the extra weight and strength in a falcon ute chassis, to the new holden one tonners, to the stupid advertising ads put to car manufacturers, to getting foreign governments, to drag racing down the motorway and now to ford and holdens top of the line cars. what next?

[crisis]

Magnas are boring.

[LowRider]

how bout datsuns or Valiant's?
The new magna is boring but i like the old VR-X

[fpv_gtho]

u rather it to the ralliart version then? i remember a road test wheels magazine did between that and the XU6 and XR6 VCT. even with the ralliart and XU6 easily $10K dearer than the VCT, the ralliart won, but the price advantage but the VCT above the XU6

[LowRider]

Nah i would take the Ralliart edition but were talking about magnas here not XU6's. You were just complaining about the fact that this has more holdens and fords then magnas.

[fpv_gtho]

what has more holdens and fords than magnas, cause if ur talking about the thread, why would i complain about that

[LowRider]

I dont know you tell me

[fpv_gtho]

so now ur trying to get me to explain a statement u put forward?

[LowRider]

so much for this forum being about the new magna, it went from the magna, to the magna in the v8's, to holden and ford utes, to a magna ute, to fords pursuit utes, to the irs under holedn commo utes and the different sales pitch than the new one tonner, to the weight comparisons of utes and sedans, then to the extra weight and strength in a falcon ute chassis, to the new holden one tonners, to the stupid advertising ads put to car manufacturers, to getting foreign governments, to drag racing down the motorway and now to ford and holdens top of the line cars. what next?
Thats what you said

[fpv_gtho]

wtf? all that about the topic changing is just saying nobody gives a shit about the new magna, not that i care nobody doesnt like it

[LowRider]

good point.
Anyone actually like it? Cause i dont

[fpv_gtho]

i had a look at one of the ads for the magna, and they were bragging about standard climate control, but upon closer inspection, it would have to be one of the cheapest systems out there. whereas holden and ford have digital systems with lcd dysplays, the magna has almost an analoque system with a knob to select temperature as if it was a fan speed and other modes

[LowRider]

Yeah would not surpise me are the engines in them iron?
I think the Varada has the LCD display

[fpv_gtho]

i think theyre all alluminium alloy. ford still has an iron block with alloy heads and holdens about to replace their all iron v6 with an all alluminium alloy one

[LowRider]

They look like there iron, is there anything good about the new magna?

[fpv_gtho]

it didnt **** up the rear styling unlike the front

[LowRider]

Thats because they barley touched the rear end.
Thats one is there another one?

[fpv_gtho]

the sohc, 24 valve motor isnt any engineering wonder, but thats the next thing on the list id say

[LowRider]

Yeah sounds like the new magna is a breakthrough in technology with its knob to select the climate control and its great engine and its great front headlights.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah and that fabulous chassis thats only been around since 1996

[LowRider]

yeah thats cars a ripper, ill have to get one when im older

[fpv_gtho]

yeah u might be able to pick one up for the same price as an au taxi thats done 400K km's

[LowRider]

Sounds good ill start saving up

[LowRider]

i just did work expierence at Mitsubhisi and here i am bagging them.

[fpv_gtho]

dont bother saving too much, ull only need about 5 grand

[LowRider]

SWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTTTTT

[fpv_gtho]

this forum just goes to show that nothing good can come from a compay, whos 4wd (pajero) is spanish for wanker

[LowRider]

Is it are you serious. HA HA thats pretty funny stuff

[fpv_gtho]

would i joke around when it comes to taking the piss out of the magna, mitsubishi or the whole of chrysler for that matter

[LowRider]

umm im not sure but ill say no.

[fpv_gtho]

did u hear about toyota trying to flog off avalons for $29990 on road with free airconditioning?

[LowRider]

Funny if one of the dudes high up in the Mitsubhisi ranks was reading what we were saying about there cars.

[LowRider]

Nah but i have now. yeah free air just wind down the windows .
would you pay 30 grand for a butt ugly car?

[fpv_gtho]

maybe, maybe not, depending on the badge. id buy an au falcon and im sure ud buy a vy commodore

[crisis]

Originally posted by LowRider
would you pay 30 grand for a butt ugly car?
Plenty of people dish that sort of dough out on Peugoets, Renaults, Citroens and other Euro trash. Speaking of peices of shit I love the TV ad on in South Oz at the moment advertising the Nissan Pulsar with "1.8 NOT 1.6 but 1.8 litre engine". A whole 200ml more! thats 50cc per pot. All that power and all through the front wheels. I just want one!

[fpv_gtho]

200ml on GM's ne hfv6 seems to do a fair bit though, about 10-15kw

[LowRider]

Yeah how good is that 1.8 litre Pulsar?
Your damn right i would buy a VY commodore hey there not that ugly by the way

[fpv_gtho]

u just think that cause ur a holden fan. most of the ford fans denied the comments about the AU's styling when it first came out, its the same with the VY

[LowRider]

yeah howd you guess.

[fpv_gtho]

its pretty obvious with ur comments about the holden ute, even after it was proven worse than the falcon ute

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
u just think that cause ur a holden fan. most of the ford fans denied the comments about the AU's styling when it first came out, its the same with the VY
A lot of people didnt like the VT and VX when it first appeared. It turned out to be on of the most popular. I personally think the VY Exec looks ordinary , especially with the black sills (something Ford avoided on their base models) but the SV8, S and SS look great. I wasnt real impressed with the HSVs in print but when I saw them in the flesh, I loved them. Ford have a more conservative, safer look which is understandable considering the shit they copped for the AU. I think they could have gone a bit further , if not with the XRs , at least with the FPVs. They really do need to expand the range but I suppose that will be dependant on their success. Something that the XR6 Turbo seems to be sabotaging if you take any stock of what the "gurus" in the car mags are saying. At the moment Ford and Holden seem to be quite different in their design philosophies.

[LowRider]

gees your quick arnt ya fpv_gtho, actually i was being carcastic.
hey crisis what do you reckon of the tail lights on the Calai.

[fpv_gtho]

theyre goin in different directions more than design wise. just have a look at the new caprice, fords 3 model lwb range and putting a turbo six up against a v8(sv8). the only models that seem to share the same philosophy now are the base and family models.

[crisis]

Originally posted by LowRider
gees your quick arnt ya fpv_gtho, actually i was being carcastic.
hey crisis what do you reckon of the tail lights on the Calai.
I like the blacked out SS version better. The Calais are ok, a bit plain though. They look ok on the HSV cause of all the other goodies.

[fpv_gtho]

u would have thought holden would go to a bit more trouble to differnetioate the high and low series tailights after the major difference with the VX

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
u would have thought holden would go to a bit more trouble to differnetioate the high and low series tailights after the major difference with the VX
They look quite different to me. The Calais lights are larger with less detail. The front is also quite different.

[fpv_gtho]

u have a point but i think theyre still only subtle differences

[Dr freedom]

On face value, Ford & Holden market their ute's as if they are half a work vehivle, & half a sports car.
Mitsubishi IMHO wouldnt be able to market a Magna ute in the same way... they would only get trades people & the like as buyers, not the 'ute fanatics' that Ford & Holden get.

[fpv_gtho]

ford and holden just try sell utes on the theory "reall aussies drive utes". holden probably more than ford try to sell the utes as sports cars and ford try to sell them as workhorses

[Falcon500]

well according to my boss mitsubishi will not be realising a v8 magna any time soon and he doubts it will ever happen
pajero means pampas cat which is like a bobcat
the tray on the holden utes is an option which you must pay for where ford offers it for free and the holden utes cant actualy hold a ton ive heard stories avbout the results of doing so and the only model they claim a true ton is the v6 model
the new mitsu looks like a snake with its giant headlights that would make an au blush and its comes with most of the options on the previous vehical as standerd features central locking,power windows,climate controll etc etc much like the au they were good cars just plain ugly and in character the saleman was telling me that during the runou sale the new magnas are worth the same as the previous model until the sales stops saving a good $2000 odd on the vehical but i can tell you the new car is disheartening because ive been washing the same magnas for a goo solid month and th only time they move is when the foreman takes them to do rounds in them i get the feeling im going to be washing them for a hell of a lot longer
:mad:

[Falcon500]

oh and please excuse my spelling i never was anygood on a key board and i keep forgetting to cheack through what i have written

[fpv_gtho]

i dunno what language u got pampas cat from but pajero is definately spanish for wanker. who cares if the new magnas got standard climate control, it looks less sophisticated than the standard air con on an AU, and the BA comes with a 14 speed fan

[escort mexico]

It is the most ugly magna yet, i thought that they should at least re-designed the back if it is a "new" model.


DODGY

[fpv_gtho]

they must have run out of money half way through the exterior re design

[Falcon500]

well the pampas cat meaning is the real one the laguage is spanish that wanker thing is a pub story and nothing more
and i know full well that the BA has more options and is a f**king brilliant car unlike the magna which is essentialy the same car it has been for what like 5 or 6 years im just on about what the salesman was telling me and if im not mistaken i was on subject talking about the magna and what it has

[fpv_gtho]

they left the major upgrade on the chassis a bit late, considering we first saw the current magna chassis in "96. do u know if the magna comes with rear parking sensors or digital rear view mirror?

[Falcon500]

the ravesing sensors are an option on the vrx i think and i honestly dont know about the digital mirror the mirrors dont look very special but ill ask the saleman when i go into work tomorrow

[fpv_gtho]

what about rear dvd entertainment

[Falcon500]

we actualy dont have any cars that arrived with it installed but we have installed it in a good many cars as options

[fpv_gtho]

hehe what about this one: a 2300kg factory tow pack

[Falcon500]

oh christ i just wash the things ;) you have to ask for the tow pack or youll not recive and on most cars in the lot its a 2 week wait if you want a tow pack the part need to be orderd in and its a ver expensive option too.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah well the falcons like the only large sedan that can tow that much according to the factory. the gt and xr8 can actually tow more in manual transmission that any other manual transmission falcon, but the 2300kg kits with an auto

[Falcon500]

but the sad fact is that the fpv vehicals do not have the tow pack option same with the te50s and such they would make great towing vheicals.Gawd im actualy learning somthing here i didnt realise that it had the higest weight

[fpv_gtho]

r u sure about that? ive seen specs saying the fpvs and xr8 manual can tow 400kg more than the 6 cylinder manual and barra220 manual. theyd be excelent at towing with 400nm available at 1000nm. i actually saw a bloody electric drill on the weekend with 200nm

[Falcon500]

well i shouldent of assumed that the fpvs wont tow things but i know for a fact that the TE50 didnt have any kind of towing option i made the wrong choice assuming theyll carry that trend

[fpv_gtho]

the ts50's transmission wasnt up to the job of pulling 1600kg. fpv requested a severly upgraded version of the TR-3650 and BTR M97 for the fpvs ova the xr8, which is making me think that even the xr8 manual can only tow 1200kg

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
hehe what about this one: a 2300kg factory tow pack
Who wants to try to drag 2 tonne with a front wheel drive. Id like to see it pull a boat up a ramp. Ah, maybe heres a use for a powerful softroader.

[fpv_gtho]

the idea behind it is it cant be done. i wasnt being serious by listing it, not even the rear drive commodore comes with a tow pack rated that high

[fpv_gtho]

ok i did my bit of reasearch and heres the facts: the gt and xr8 use the same transmissions, but because of the xr8s lower torque, it can tow more, so the auto comes with the 2300kg factory tow pack in the auto alongside the 1600kg manual. the fpv's can only carry 1600kg but it doesnt matter which transmission u choose, they tow the same

[Falcon500]

beacuase you seem to keep up to date with this stuff fpv_gtho whats the deal about ford getting this 6 speeder box? will it bes as practical as a mustangs or as useless as a GM one? and is it true that they are thinking of going more then 4 speeds for their autos? noly asking because im getting a shitload of heresay and thrid hand info im just after omthing a little more solid

[fpv_gtho]

from what ive heard, the xt, futura and xr6's will keep a 4 speed auto and 5 speed manual. the fairmont's, fairlane's/ltd's and v8 performance cars will get a 5 speed manual and the 6 speed auto that jaguar uses. theyre gunna spread the ratios out to take advantage of 2 extra ratios so that means only one overdrive, unlike the t-56 in the commo

[fpv_gtho]

the 6 speed auto has a 630nm torque limit which means it can handle a supercharger on the gt (anyone else see gtho?)

[Falcon500]

i would like to see a base model GS again somthing like an XT model with a gt motor

[crisis]

Originally posted by Falcon500
beacuase you seem to keep up to date with this stuff fpv_gtho whats the deal about ford getting this 6 speeder box? will it bes as practical as a mustangs or as useless as a GM one? and is it true that they are thinking of going more then 4 speeds for their autos? noly asking because im getting a shitload of heresay and thrid hand info im just after omthing a little more solid
Your very well read. Regurgitating the lines from every motor magazine youve ever read. One thing these guys in the motor magazines (amazingly) ignore is that there is no law that says you have to use every gear. If you drive a manual you generally use the APPRORIATE gear for the situation. I generally use 4th and 5th around town and have only ever used 6th when travalling in the country or at constant speeds of 100km or more. Using this reputedly redundant gear on a trip interstate returned me an average fuel consumption over 2000ks of 10lt per 100k. What a luxury for a 350 V8.

[Falcon500]

no, i actualy know from personal experiance that the 6th gear is fairly useless for going fast not bad for ecconemy but the 6th gear on the commos is more a sales pitch then anything else. I know from pople in competition that the mustang 6th gear isnt as tall and is more practical for racing and also this redunant gear as you call it too is actualy dead weight most of the time the gm t-56 is a very bulky gear box

[crisis]

I agree. 6th gear is useless for going fast, over 200kmh!? Its useful only for economy. Use 5th for speeds over 200kmh.

[Falcon500]

still curious about the 5 speed auto and apprently holden had plans of one too and sorry about the double post in the other board

[fpv_gtho]

holden want to use a 5 speed of the hfv6 and theres a rumour of a new 6 speed version of the hydramatic for the gen4

[Falcon500]

that rumor about the 5 speed for the new v6 has been around as long as their been saying they are going to build the new motor last i heard they were having troubles making a 5 speeder auto that was still cost effective. Im just wondering why thats so hard couldent thet borrow and modify one of GMs many other plans say made by saab or somthing (assuming they have a 5 speed auto) what im saying is just look around somwhere in GM their will be a design they could use

[fpv_gtho]

well ford still have no plans for a 5sp auto

[Falcon500]

well im hoping well gwt it when imtroduce the mazda desinged one in the 05 mustang

[fpv_gtho]

with those dates id say we're gettin it with the bc falcon(2006). we wont get the mustang 6 spd manual though since its a t-56

[crisis]

Originally posted by Falcon500
that rumor about the 5 speed for the new v6 has been around as long as their been saying they are going to build the new motor last i heard they were having troubles making a 5 speeder auto that was still cost effective. Im just wondering why thats so hard couldent thet borrow and modify one of GMs many other plans say made by saab or somthing (assuming they have a 5 speed auto) what im saying is just look around somwhere in GM their will be a design they could use
I thought I read that they will be using a box from BMW.

[fpv_gtho]

thats what ive heard as well

[Falcon500]

the queastion is will it be a viable option eg cost, maintience etc etc ive heard with most euro trash when things break down its big $$$$$$$

[fpv_gtho]

id like to know whats gm doing with a beemer tranny.

[crisis]

Originally posted by Falcon500
the queastion is will it be a viable option eg cost, maintience etc etc ive heard with most euro trash when things break down its big $$$$$$$
I may be wrong, but I think the Tranny in the BMW is built by GM or a division. In any event I dont know of many BMW transmissions shitting themselves. Is there a known problem?

[Falcon500]

no known problem just think of the poor bastard who it happens too and it will one day.....autos are alredy expensive enough to repair/replace i only hope the bmw box is around as cheap and as reliable as their current one thats all im saying though it wouldent suprise me to see "teething problems" as most new cars seem to have. And ive had some holden fans saying holden will stuff up the HFv6 which suprised me that they are casting dispursions on theis motor thats supposed to take holden to an all new level. They say itll take them around 2 years for them not have any problems with it

[crisis]

I have just read the latest Motor magazine which carried the following points.
The 5 speed auto earmarked for the next Commodore with the HFV6 is one that is being currently built in France and used by BMW and in the Cadillac CTS. ( Autos, although I prefer manuals, are generally more reliable than manuals, although as you state more expensive to repair. I have never had to have one repaired in all the cars Ive had but I have replaced two clutches)
The Gen4 is going to be produced in several variations from around 5lt up to 6.2lt. Only the smaller motors will be available with displacement on demand initially although Motor claims Holden wants the 6lt with DOD. They also claim the 6lt will be good for around 255-260kw in the SS with HSV opting for the 6.2lt at 310kw. Sticking with pushrods for size apparently. The DOD motors the only ones with dual cams. In view of this the design seems very flexible. Also claim fuel consumption will, if not decrease, stay as the current GenIII

[fpv_gtho]

wouldnt it be smarter to invest in a new ohc motor rather than keep upgrading and upgrading what is now the gen3?

[crisis]

What would be the point really. I know its a good shit stirring point for the Ford fans but really there is not that much to be gained. OHC increases the size and weight and the current Gen3 revs hard enough, goes well enough and is fairly economical in its current layout. Clearly GM are'nt convinced of the need whatever the reason.

[Falcon500]

what i ultimatly fail to see is the point of adding an extra cam and not taking advantage by adding any extra valves. It just adds to the internal reciprocating mass which in turn will hamper the motors performance (the way i see it) if they dont take advantage of the extra cam properly by adding extra smaller valves as stated before that 4 smaller valves breathe better then 2 giant ones

[crisis]

These motors are designed for average passenger cars as well as the odd performance sedan. Even then we are talking bargain basement when compared to the like of M5s etc. If someone told me 5 years ago you could buy a Berlina or Calias with a 235kw V8 I would not have beleived it. HSV GTS was around 215kw. That the Gen 4 is proposed to offer 255kw+ is incredible in a domestic car like a Commodore. Possibly excessive. (I dont mean that). In the end manufacturers have to set limits. When do you stop developing a engine? (probably never) It does seem GM is deliberatley avoiding OHC for some reason. 4 valve heads would definitely increase the cost and cost of repairs.

[fpv_gtho]

surely in the next couple of years though, GM's gunna realize they cant make the ls1 more powerful though, like 10 years ago the top camaro had 250hp and the corvettte had about 350hp. there was an article on drive.com.au when the BA came out, saying that the current 6 cylinders in the falcon and commodores were more powerful than the v8's of 5 years ago, now theyre standard v8's are better than there $70k muscle cars of 5 years ago. its turning back into the 60's where the manufacturers every model year are making the cars substantially more powerful to keep street cred. id hate to think what the japanese are thinking after all the reports the next wrx's, skylines, evos and rx's (rx-7 and rx-8) are gunna break the self imposed 206kw limit, the japs are doing the same as ford and holden r here

[Falcon500]

well shit in 92 your eb Xr8 had 168 kw you VN had 160 and later 165 and then their was the special model the EBII GT with a full 200 kw on tap now look at us we have the BA XR8 with 260 kw and a XR6T that makes 240 and their the standard line up for under 60K
bah jap buzz boxes impressive stats for them but awd fails to impress me and the fact most jap car are just tinny little things there arnt many i would own and even less id give any money for

[fpv_gtho]

the eb2 gt had only 192kw, the factory originally claimed 200kw, but after wheels tested it and complained it felt to slow for its claimed power, the engine got put back on the dyno and it got changed to 192kw. i was reading something on the new falcon six and some engineers reckon if the ford engineers could keep the straight six producing its peak torque until about 5000-6000rom, it would make about 220kw. they were saying things like getting rid of a shaft in the block that went back to the engines pushrods days and other things refining it increased the power, not the new heads developed for it, the heads decreased fuel consumption

[Falcon500]

actually they had a recall on the EB gts and they jacked the power back up to 198kw it was a computer error and yeah the motor that ford is using apparently you could share parts of the bottem end with the pursuit motor thats been with aussie falcons since the start not that thats bad thing in my opinion find somthing that works and stick by it and occasionly refine it

[fpv_gtho]

did u hear about how they had to recall some new gt's cause the ecu was letting the power increase beyond 290kw?

[Falcon500]

thats a new one on me you got any more info in that?

[fpv_gtho]

i cant confirm any of it. did ford end up setting the record straight after holden claimed they used a more generous form of poer measurement, cause wheels thought the boss290 made closer to 300kw than 290kw

[Falcon500]

yeah i cant rember the name of it wether it din or somthing but apprently holden takes off all its accsesories while testing the motors

[fpv_gtho]

i think its DIN and SAE. from what i heard holden were claiming ford used the more generous SAE system but i dont remember ford saying anything about it. holden were saying if they used the SAE measuremtn, the ss would make about 245kw (vy series 1)

[Falcon500]

well wheels done a test on the GT and said it was spot on and the xr6T was spot on too

[fpv_gtho]

yeah and how about where in the muscle car test motor doen the gt had more rear wheel power than the gts

[Falcon500]

is that a fact? well looks like ford has put more thought into their driveline then holden the 6 cog box they are using is getting on a bit maybey it hampers the rest of the system a bit? or maybey holden just used din numbers or whatever it is?

[fpv_gtho]

DIN is what holden use and SAE is what holden claim ford uses

[Falcon500]

well isnt that claim making them look stupid now? they claim they use the conservitavie method removing accseroies to increase the power to the wheels when they (ford) claim less engine hp and make more at the wheels :D

[fpv_gtho]

umm, i think uve got it the wrong way round. holden claim they use a system, that, if ford used, the boss290 would make less than 290kw, but thats if ford use the SAE system, which they havent said anything about. the fact that the gt makes more rear wheel power than the gts is just an indication of the better driveline under the gt, it hasnt got much to do with the engine, you rely on flywheel figures to judge the engine, but still more rear wheel power makes a better performance car.

[Falcon500]

no makes a better perfoming drive line what about comparing the weight of both the cars?

[fpv_gtho]

you can have 2 equal power, equal weight, equal ratio cars but its the one with the most rear wheel power thats gunna be the fastest. if the BAGT wasnt such a tank, it would beat the gts

[Falcon500]

i know thats why i asked the weight im just wondering how much slimmer the GTS is over the GT and yourr satement isnt always true its like general george custer said he who has the biggest gun wins when its not always the case he got slaugterd by indians the day he said that too

[fpv_gtho]

theres less than 100kg difference between the gts and gt. when holden claimed the tare weight instead of kerb weight, it was about 150, so with 75 litres of fuel, that figures probably half

[Falcon500]

i used to get at holdens for beingbig bloated things back in the au days the au was fairly light on only just tipping over 1500 kilos

[fpv_gtho]

yeah well the au lookis physically smaller than BA, plus the BA's 88% stronger, so ur not left in the dark for where the extra weight went

[Falcon500]

some of the weight came in the extra stree but some of the extra weight come in all that damn padding and oplastic in the interior i fell a littl clausterphobic in compared to the AU

[fpv_gtho]

i dont see how. about an extra 10kg would have gone into the interior at worst, the au had a pretty bulky interior. the ba's interior looks like it has a smooth surface without much sticking out. the au easily looks more cramped inside

[Falcon500]

no ti has no surfaces stcking out because they put in extra bits to meet the parts that are sticking out its smoother but its interior is more cramped and aslo the new ba seats would weigh a good 3 kilos each the new sound deadning carpet would be another 4 kilos it all adds up

[fpv_gtho]

yeah and my dads au ghia looks like the interior has some unnecessary things in it. the au and ba's interior weight would be pretty much the same i reckon

[Falcon500]

well any ways all the new standerd features are adding up also as the base model XT is now heavier then a loaded XR8 so that weight must come from ****ing near everthing in the car i would think.

[fpv_gtho]

the extra weight went into the things ford did to make the mody 88% stiffer. mazda released working prototypes of an mx-5 roadster and the roof alone make the body 3 times stiffer

[Falcon500]

Bleh just strengthens the fact i dont like convertables they just arnt very strong and are more opften then not hevier then cars with a roof.

[fpv_gtho]

what about the bmw z4, its body can withstand 14000nm or so

[Falcon500]

Yeah but look at its weight im under the impression itll be a fair weight even for such a small car. And i dont like BMWs at all bloody kraut burners same to mercades and just about the whole bloody lot of them.

[fpv_gtho]

what have u got against a fine piece of german engineering?

[crisis]

Originally posted by Falcon500
Yeah but look at its weight im under the impression itll be a fair weight even for such a small car. And i dont like BMWs at all bloody kraut burners same to mercades and just about the whole bloody lot of them.
Now thats what I call a fanatic. I may not worship the likes of BMW and Mercedes but I wouldnt deride them either.

[fpv_gtho]

just cause theyre not aussie doesnt mean u have to go off at them, imagine the shit us aussies get then the germans see the cars we turn out

[Falcon500]

Idont give a rats i dont like em when i dont like them i make it clear notice how i dont like jap cars either? most certainly dont like anything the italinas make and i dont care much for pommy shit eitther either american or austrlain and as i stated before a new car to me is after 1985 i prefer older cars.

[fpv_gtho]

ur neva gunna get anywhere if u dont have an open mind

[Falcon500]

Yeah that is true but i take a keen intres in newer cars just dont care to own one. And as for my taste in cars i try to give a fair rap if its a good carbut that astill wont mean i like it.

[fpv_gtho]

thats not the message im getting from ur posts

[Falcon500]

Oh well I dont like jap cars but a lot of the older ones have character and a lot of them buzz boxes are fast and quite easy to work on just a little small and in general heavy for their size. Most pommy cars are quite luxurious and sometimes can fair move but in gerneral are difficult to work on. Most european cars are very well enginerred built to maintain huge speeds on euopes faster roads eg italys and Autobarns but they are not exactly nice to work on and are very expensive in general. Most australian cars to me have soul which is very hard to achieve by me but yeah they have that they are quite easy to work on and to the fact that they support our local factory workers.And american cars the cars that our performance cars are based on some of them have soul they are easy to work on they inspite of ridicule from euro trash fans are very well enginerred and they just plain are cool. can you argue with most of that?

[crisis]

I really think Jap cars in the last 10 years or so have come into their own. Before that I think they were largely crap. Pommy cars are also crappy underpowered and unreliable. Aston Martins and other more prestigious makes are nice but at a price. Normal everyday pommy fair is ordinary. Euro cars fall into three categories. Exotic, BMW/Merc/Audi, which obviously have their merit, and then the Renault/Citroen/Fiat /Peugoet/Alfa category. No interest their. If you live in Oz its hard to make a case against the domestic product ,while not perfect, is good value.

[fpv_gtho]

either way ur always gunna like the locally made stuff rather than the imports

[crisis]

Not so. Id rather a M3, almost any Porsche, Ferrari, Aston Martin and many others than a Holden or Ford. I cant afford one of those though and dont see myself ever being in the position of outlaying the cash if I had it.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but ud still defend an australian cars merits if someone overseas was bagging the car

[Falcon500]

Well of course but im differnt from thins group as in if i come up with some money id go mustang,Cossie Focus,Falcon GT or new ford GT40 if i had some serious money. I wouldent mind a cehvrolet product like a camaro or a corvette but id rather spend my money on a ford!

[crisis]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
yeah but ud still defend an australian cars merits if someone overseas was bagging the car
Of course I will defend its merits. I will also criticise their faults. I wont mindlessly bag anything though. I have a preference for Holdens which I have for many years. I probably wouldnt but a Ford over a Holden unless Holden really put out a dog. Not likely these days. But I refrain from the "Fords sux" type of crap because it is not logical. I appreciate the current BAs and admit ,based on what Ive read and heard, that the have a handling advanteage over the current Commodore. They must be good because my commy is a great drive.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but then again ud probably defend a car of ur own more than a car on the showroom, plus, you might think ur commodore drives good cause u havent driven much better

[Falcon500]

Idont know i think my old mans datsun 1000 is a great driver power bloody nothing only just 600 kilos worth of car with around 85 odd hp (in somthing that light its great) and ive drivan little celicas (like one year old) and it was a fun little drive little things seemd off about the car. But all in all im not impressed by power stearing or electrics of any varityother then maybey a radio and a heater (only becuse i need the demisters) i prefer manuals and i like older cars with a much rougher ride so it feels like im driving not being drivan.

[fpv_gtho]

take a drive in a lotus elise, bmw m3 csl or 2001 mustang cobra r and u should enoy it then

[Falcon500]

I dont know about the BMW M3 CSL but i would love to drive a lotus elise and i would just about kill for a mustang cobra R.

[fpv_gtho]

the csl and cobra r share the same philosophy, stripped out racer type car, no stereo, no air-con, race spec suspension, tuned to the limit engine (i dunno about the csl though, bmw just keep findin power out of it)

[Falcon500]

Apparnetly not an easy motor to tune the ford 4.6 moduler. Easy to get hp but not easy to keep fuel ecconemy/reliability. thats just what i hear.

[fpv_gtho]

well the cobra r was the engine that inspired the boss 260 and 260 (probably more likely just the 290 and ford detuned it for the xr8). apparently, for the mg xpower sv theyre gunna use the MOD 4.6L and 5.0L, good for 241kw and 344kw. i wouldnt mind one of those, especially with the factoru nos kit, although id have to be very very careful using it, the nos that is

[Falcon500]

so the MG is going to use a ford donk? And even more suprising a factory NOS kit are you sure? Its just that worldwide its illegal in so many places i wouldent think that anyone would do that.

[fpv_gtho]

the engines theyre using sound like ford engines, like the 4.6 is 1kw more powerful than the 4,6 in oz spec cobras, and ford wanna put a 5.0L NA in the 2004/5 mustang. they might do a deal similar to what bmw's doing with takin the speed limiters off the csl's, by only offering the nos kits to people holding a motorsport license.

[Falcon500]

Dont like MG much make note i dont know much about them but also make another note im not too fussed. But yeah im shifting from foot too foot waiting for the new mustang can hardly wait untill it comes out :D

[fpv_gtho]

yeah its gunna be a ripper, the current ones gettin a bit agricultural if u know what i mean. id expect they wont go as far with the retro styling as what they did with the gt concept, but if thats the look theyre goin for, its either alot or not much in terms of retro styling, unless they wanna pull a nissan and combine features from past cars in a modern way like what they tryed to do with the z concept

[Falcon500]

I think its great they way it looks right now but they will change some of the styling and thats a garentee i read in an american mustang mag.I wonder what the Cobra R would be like......

[fpv_gtho]

the cobra r was just a special edition of the 2001 model, unless u mean the svt cobra, which will be something special. the styling will probably change as much as the rx-8 did from the rx evolv concept, but mazda had like 3 concepts actually badged rx-8 as well as the rx-evolv

[Falcon500]

Really? well anyways hopefully well see some more exports larger number = cheaper model (in theroy) hell i can see it now me racing around a GTP track in a 2005 SVT mustang :D Then i get slaped behind the ear hole and get told to keep washing :mad:

[fpv_gtho]

did u hear about the mustangs being let back into GT-P. i think the model hey allowed was the cobra RA, but the only RA that ive seen was a yellow one, a convertible at the 2001 sydney motor show i think. i would have thought it was the oz spec cobras, which are really the 99 model svt's

[Falcon500]

Its a cobra R according to the Spred sheet John bowe used to drive it though im not familar with its current driver ivve only seen it in for 1 race also it didnt do to well.

[fpv_gtho]

from what i gathered at the motor show, the RA was just a convertible cobra R, but with only 300 R's having been made, theyd have to be special builds from the factory which im surprised still makes them eligble for entry, unless they can enter as something like a kit car etc.

[Falcon500]

Ahh youll be suprised what you can get your mitts on when your in racing look at bob janes lt1 camero and allan moffats trans-am mustang in production cars we have had special cars come in all the time like look at stokels diablo apprently that was one of 39 or somthing dedicated to racing.

[fpv_gtho]

i guess the ferrari 360 gt that bowe races is the same story. without the limiter, the csl goes about 270km/h by the way, unless they increased it to that. wheels tested an m3 and m5 and they reckon the limiters cut in between 10-20km/h too late. ive got a pic of an m5 reading 260km/h on the speedo

[Falcon500]

hehe cool :)

[fpv_gtho]

goes to show none of these so called "gentlemans agreements" setup in japan and germany are working. german cars with limiters cutting in too late, r34 skylines with more rear wheel power than at the flywheel. they said they got the "normal" m3 going 270km/h goin down sturt highway in NT, so either the csl has a working limiter, or it can reach over 280km/h, based on the inaccuracy of the m5 and m3

[Falcon500]

Sounds like in the american muscle car days and the HO days they lied about the HP for one reason or another that little buisness migh of started up again.

[fpv_gtho]

we've got a car manufacturer rebellion agains the government on our hands. i just hope this doesnt mead we're gunna run out of oil in the next couple of years, just to find some more and in the meantime out cars have had their outputs halved, maybe even less to save fuel. im sure theres some people who wouldnt want to go through all that again

[Falcon500]

My old man has been trhough 2 he doesnt think well run out in my lifetime they keep finding more and well just hjave to tap some deeper regions and some snow fields if worsecomes to wrost

[fpv_gtho]

yeah well as long as no-one pulls a george bush to get more oil again

[Falcon500]

If peope get desperate enough theyll try again but anyways ill prefer to keep away from a political disscussion in here if you dont mind.

[crisis]

The oil crises are manufactured by oil producers for their own reasons. There are hundreds , probably thousands of tapped oil wells around the world. On top of this cars are becoming more econonomical. Europe seem to be into deisel powered cars and hybrids are popping up. The "greeny" thing about getting rid of plastic bags will have an effect as well. It would be interesting to see an independant report on oil usage vs known resources.

[fpv_gtho]

well when the pil runds out anyway, well have hyrdrogen. the japs are already producing hudrogen fuel cell cars, although only rentals. ford america apparently dont want to develop a fuel cell electic car, but a hydrogen IC engine

[Falcon500]

Well ill quote my old man "ive been through a few and ive noticed that fuel prices rise and they dont go down by much. But you boy should still have a lifetime of drving cars untill they seriously "Might" have problems. And im not bought by the whole hydrogen cars or nothing i think a car running off gas is as adveturous as id go.

[fpv_gtho]

a hydrogen IC engine would produce heaps of power though, far more than a petrol IC engine.

[danno]

wait till you see the new magna on the road b4 you judge it. i think they did an awesome job. it looks very good. just like the new evos they look crap in photos but then they look very nice on the road.

the new fords and holdens are better though. i think all aussie cars have made a big step forward in the last few years and with the all new commodore, magna and and camry coming out in a few years we will be spoilt for choice.

[fpv_gtho]

theres also a new falcon coming out 2006 as well u know. toyota only just came out with a new camry, so i wouldnt expect another one before 2008. mitsubishi's gunna be the first local with a whole new product though in 2005, when the VZ2 commo and probably ba3 falcon come out. ford have a habit of releasing a last effort on the falcon if someone else's already come out with something new, like when holden released the vr commo, ford were forced to release the ed falcon.

[danno]

Originally posted by fpv_gtho
theres also a new falcon coming out 2006 as well u know. toyota only just came out with a new camry, so i wouldnt expect another one before 2008. mitsubishi's gunna be the first local with a whole new product though in 2005, when the VZ2 commo and probably ba3 falcon come out. ford have a habit of releasing a last effort on the falcon if someone else's already come out with something new, like when holden released the vr commo, ford were forced to release the ed falcon.

not all new. im talking all new. like the BA falcon was. they are building an all new camry, but im not sure when its supposed to come out. ford will release an update on their BA models like holden did to the VY, but nothing very new.

[crisis]

The Magna can hardly be described as all new. Styling is up to personal choice and while I dont like it others may. The fact that its front wheel drive is a put off also, although there is the AWD at the expense of the extra weight.

[fpv_gtho]

Originally posted by danno
not all new. im talking all new. like the BA falcon was. they are building an all new camry, but im not sure when its supposed to come out. ford will release an update on their BA models like holden did to the VY, but nothing very new.

the BA falcon is still on the AU chassis, its just had the rear end changed in the sedan so it doesnt have to accomodate a live axle like the AU did. there will be an all new falcon in 2006 or 2007. u might think that the BA was all new cause of the completely different model name, but thats because the AU was such a flop, they wanted the BA to have as little as possible to do with it

[Falcon500]

Well i wash the bloody things to me their as ugly as sin though i think the VR-X model actually looks a little nicer with its chrome grills and what not the best vehical we have gotten in our non-rally-art dealer would of had to of been last years all wheels drive magna (if performance is your bag if not go lancer) very nice cars they were they even looked ok.

[fpv_gtho]

well i think we're gunna have to wait until 2005 before the magnas gunna start looking any better

[Falcon500]

Oh well good thing it looks like im defecting to tyota to become a sales man when i quit school wont have to look at another but ugly magna.

[fpv_gtho]

have u noticed though the new magna looks like the new camry. at least the camry looks different from the back compared to the old model

[Falcon500]

The new magna has a bloated arse end and itd front aint pretty.

[fpv_gtho]

the biggest thing theyve done to the back of the magna since it arrived in 96 was take the crease out of the boot

[Falcon500]

I work with the bloody things take my word for it when i say they have changed the back end to be excat the have raounded it a little more and changed the small recess the number plate sits in.

[fpv_gtho]

well those things are REALLY gunna make the car visually more attractive arent they

[Falcon500]

well no it doesnt it just makes it look bloated and those new low profile spoilers are impossible to clean it isnt even user friendly!

[fpv_gtho]

i guess then u reckon MMAL took a backwards step on the bodykit for the VR-X

[Falcon500]

They were always more difficult to clean then the grass roots varitiy but these new ones are just a pain. and the pictures ive seen of the new lancer look like a mini magna too which is really sad too.

[fpv_gtho]

well thats their corporate look for you, if it were up to me id stick with individuality in the models