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Karrmann
07-14-2004, 07:05 AM
Ever wondered how those popular Hybrid swork, heres a link full of info.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car.htm

just to tell you, The page where they compare the insight and the Prius is a bit out of date becasue they compare the 2001 models, not the fully up to date models.

Matra et Alpine
07-14-2004, 07:19 AM
Ever wondered how those popular Hybrid swork, heres a link full of info.
Better still go for a test drive in a Prius.
The screen will show you what it's doing all the time. If power from engine or battery, if it's re-gen braking all with graphics and movign arrows.

Pathetic and only guaranteed to cause accidents.
The salesman wasn't impressed when I pointed out that it was as dangerous as having a DVD playing and I reckoned the authorities should ban it. He was VERY produ of it . Sad :)

A pointless piece of techno only there to 'impress' those without a life !!
They coudl have saved a couple of pounds by getting rid of it :)

Seriously though, if you want to see it in action. Checj out http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/frame_start.jsp?id=homepage click on the Hyrbid Synergy Drive button and then click the start etc buttons :)

Karrmann
07-14-2004, 09:09 AM
maybe you should put a piece of paper over the screen or something to help you ignore it.

Matra et Alpine
07-14-2004, 09:47 AM
maybe you should put a piece of paper over the screen or something to help you ignore it.
Obviously it can be switched off.
But why put it in there ?
After the first 5 minutes of amusement for the kids, it's just a waste of space and WEIGHT and is an ugly carbuncle on a dash clearly built using branches of the ugly tree :)

Karrmann
07-14-2004, 09:48 AM
hmm never thought about that. :)

byronleehk
07-14-2004, 11:32 AM
Obviously it can be switched off.
But why put it in there ?
After the first 5 minutes of amusement for the kids, it's just a waste of space and WEIGHT and is an ugly carbuncle on a dash clearly built using branches of the ugly tree :)

I think the reason for it being there is to attrack those potential buyers who's into gizmos and new "toys".

The Japanese car makers generally go 2 directions, the high performance tribe and the gadget type which attracks two totally different market groups but made up almost the whole market share.

Just my 2 cents. :)

Karrmann
07-14-2004, 02:32 PM
I like the idea becasue of the way it saves fuel, and has lots of cool stuff on it.

Matra et Alpine
07-14-2004, 03:09 PM
I like the idea becasue of the way it saves fuel, and has lots of cool stuff on it.
seriously Karman, that interior ir AWFUL.
They've gone too far to save weight and ended up with the worst of plastics and flimsy everything !!!

Mind you it still beats a 1998 Ford Taurus :)

Karrmann
07-14-2004, 03:28 PM
well the interior is great in my openion :rolleyes:

Matra et Alpine
07-14-2004, 03:50 PM
well the interior is great in my openion :rolleyes:
seriously ????? :eek:
No storage - compare it with an Espace or Picasso or Scenic !!
Horrible, cheap plastic. THE worst. Nothing 'solid' abotu any of it.
Seats are stiff and give no support. Mo depth to the lumbar or back.
All of it to save weight without innovation.

I think it's focus is the US and the ordinary man-in-the-street in the US accepts an interior we wouldn't :) Different expectations.

I'm writing this from the perspective of someone who is seriously considering buying one in the next 6 months.
Local dealer is making an offer which is hard to resist :)
But, I'm always objective about cars and recognise their weaknesses as well as strengths.

Karrmann
07-14-2004, 03:54 PM
before I can really get in and test drive one my facts aren't straight. and i'm used to stiff seats, i own a 1993 Escort remember ;)

DodgeNitroBIRM
07-14-2004, 06:07 PM
While these hybrids are fine and dandy, there is a hidden danger to your local technicain that none of you have mentioned. When the first Hybrid Ford Escape rolls in, we get the "pole." It's a five foot (or so) pole made of fiberglass to allow someone to shove the electricuted (SP?) technican away from the car.

Matra et Alpine
07-14-2004, 06:14 PM
While these hybrids are fine and dandy, there is a hidden danger to your local technicain that none of you have mentioned. When the first Hybrid Ford Escape rolls in, we get the "pole." It's a five foot (or so) pole made of fiberglass to allow someone to shove the electricuted (SP?) technican away from the car.
IIRC it's a 42Volt battery.
That's too low a voltage to conduct through normal skin contact. So they'll be OK :)

DodgeNitroBIRM
07-14-2004, 09:24 PM
Maybe on something small like the Prius, but the Escape is a much larger vehicle. Plus, I know what I'm talking about due to the fact that I am a Ford Technican who is working with another Tech. that has taken the training on the Escape Hybrid. In that training, they are taught how to use the pole to get the tech off the car.

Matra et Alpine
07-15-2004, 02:10 AM
Maybe on something small like the Prius, but the Escape is a much larger vehicle. Plus, I know what I'm talking about due to the fact that I am a Ford Technican who is working with another Tech. that has taken the training on the Escape Hybrid. In that training, they are taught how to use the pole to get the tech off the car.
Yep - checked the ford web page - the Escape has a 330V battery. Youch. I tihnk that choice might prove to be up their with putting the fuel tank under the boot in the Pinto !!!!
That's enough to provide a path for current to flow across a human body. So holding power and touching the body would be 'bad' idea.
Qestion for you Dodge ... Does the battery run isolated from the car chassis ? If they had, it would mean tounching battery and body wouldn't be as severe a risk.It would make most sense to do that for saefty but at obvious cost. Just wondering.
Of course 330V will flow through you if you're standing in normal shoes :( So woldn't help if you were standing OUTSIDE of the car working on it - like most mechanics have to :)

Karrmann
07-15-2004, 05:22 AM
hope this won't be like the pinto, get in the slighetest rear end collision and the car will blow on ya.

Matra et Alpine
07-15-2004, 05:28 AM
Youch. I tihnk that choice might prove to be up their with putting the fuel tank under the boot in the Pinto !!!!
hope this won't be like the pinto, get in the slighetest rear end collision and the car will blow on ya.
Sometimes I wonder if folks read things or are just sooooo thick it needs to be explained.
Your post goes down on the records as dumbest of the day Karmann :)

byronleehk
07-15-2004, 09:59 AM
Maybe on something small like the Prius, but the Escape is a much larger vehicle. Plus, I know what I'm talking about due to the fact that I am a Ford Technican who is working with another Tech. that has taken the training on the Escape Hybrid. In that training, they are taught how to use the pole to get the tech off the car.

DodgeNitroBIRM, I'm in the market for a hybrid too (my POS is getting worst everyday, leaking oil and everything). Seriously how long do you think those batteries are going to last? Honda Hybrids said you don't need to change the batteries for years...thoughts?

Matra et Alpine
07-15-2004, 02:49 PM
DodgeNitroBIRM, I'm in the market for a hybrid too (my POS is getting worst everyday, leaking oil and everything). Seriously how long do you think those batteries are going to last? Honda Hybrids said you don't need to change the batteries for years...thoughts?
Ford warranty their battery for 8 years - it's in their info on the web page.
Toyota warranty the whole hybrid train, motors, controller AND batteries similarly for 8 years.
'safe' warranty rules suggest they expect them to be about 30% more so expect them to be in the 5% failure rate by about 10-11 year.

byronleehk
07-15-2004, 03:34 PM
Thanks Matra :)

DodgeNitroBIRM
07-15-2004, 04:48 PM
Yep - checked the ford web page - the Escape has a 330V battery. Youch. I tihnk that choice might prove to be up their with putting the fuel tank under the boot in the Pinto !!!!
That's enough to provide a path for current to flow across a human body. So holding power and touching the body would be 'bad' idea.
Qestion for you Dodge ... Does the battery run isolated from the car chassis ? If they had, it would mean tounching battery and body wouldn't be as severe a risk.It would make most sense to do that for saefty but at obvious cost. Just wondering.
Of course 330V will flow through you if you're standing in normal shoes :( So woldn't help if you were standing OUTSIDE of the car working on it - like most mechanics have to :)

Yes, it is isolated from the chassis, however, the working voltage range for the motor is 330-400+ volts and I'm not sure about the current (Amps). That's the part that has me worried about an Escape Hybrid. It's going to take quite a few amps to get it to move. The Hybrid will also have a VERY unconventional transmission, The eCVT. It will not have gears or clutches, but will work like a golf cart with a belt and a couple of cylinders that squeeze the belt in as engine speed increase. Those who have been trained on it, will have to wear two pairs of gloves, also. One will be a pair of rubber gloves, which have to be checked before every use for "leakage." If they leak, can't use them. Next is a pair of leather gloves for grip. If I can find out any more, I'll post it.

Matra et Alpine
07-15-2004, 05:43 PM
Yes, it is isolated from the chassis, however, the working voltage range for the motor is 330-400+ volts and I'm not sure about the current (Amps).
They quote it as a 70Kw engine, but not sure if that is input our output :(
If input then we're looking at about 200Amps.( hmm night be multi-phase motor which makes it a bit less ).
Anyway, 3 amps across the chest is enough to stop the heart :(
70Kw is enough to heat a LARGE house in the middle of a global ice age !!!
THAT's a lot of power :)

The Hybrid will also have a VERY unconventional transmission, The eCVT.
We've had quite a few CVT cars over here for a while.
The first one was 30 years ago :)

Coventrysucks
07-15-2004, 05:55 PM
Forget Hybrids - this is the way forward!

http://www.seeing-stars.com/Images/People/Flintstones.jpg

No emissions, excellent economy, comes with YDD engine technology (Yabber Dabber Doo)

:D

Personally I don't like the sound of CVT. Great though it may be, it sounds like the end result is a high performance milk float. With less milk carrying capacity.