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View Full Version : F1 Round 12 : Hockenheimring - Germany



Matra et Alpine
07-23-2004, 02:27 AM
First practise underway, live timing at http://www.formula1.com/race/livetiming/popup/725.html

motorsportnerd
07-23-2004, 06:52 AM
Interesting to see Davidson on top. When will someone sign him for next year?

Coventrysucks
07-23-2004, 08:08 AM
2nd practice:

1 M. Schumacher Ferrari 1:15.001 27
2 K. Räikkönen McLaren 1:15.045 18
3 JP. Montoya Williams 1:15.167 25
4 J. Button BAR 1:15.379 23
5 A. Pizzonia Williams 1:15.470 25
6 A. Davidson BAR 1:15.576 33
7 T. Sato BAR 1:15.657 21
8 F. Alonso Renault 1:15.677 30
9 R. Barrichello Ferrari 1:15.738 19
10 R. Zonta Toyota 1:16.200 38

Homem de Gelo
07-23-2004, 11:27 AM
Rb has been very slow.

Matra et Alpine
07-23-2004, 11:52 AM
Interesting to see Davidson on top. When will someone sign him for next year?
I think that is a very clever piece of marketing.
I suspect they're putting him out on VERY light fuel so that he tops the charts.
Gets good advertising and gives other teams a worry that the car MIGHT be that fast !!

Homem de Gelo
07-23-2004, 03:50 PM
I think that is a very clever piece of marketing.
I suspect they're putting him out on VERY light fuel so that he tops the charts.
Gets good advertising and gives other teams a worry that the car MIGHT be that fast !!


Davidson engine has 1000 more rpm.
They do that because he doesn't have to worry about losing grid position in the event of an engine failure. Actually, it's not that his engine has 1000 rpm, the other BAR dsrivers run all practice sessions with 1000 rpms less in an attempt to preserve the engine for the race.

I imagine other teams do the same.

scubasteve87
07-23-2004, 03:55 PM
You know what, I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict another Schumi win....... :rolleyes: But I'd be much happier if Montoya or Raikonnen could pull one off. :p

fpv_gtho
07-24-2004, 01:08 AM
quite unfortunate that Button is set to be placed 10 spots behind his qualifying position, could be a surprise weekend for someone else hoping to get onto the podium

SlickHolden
07-24-2004, 07:35 AM
Just hope webber can jump into the top 8 or 5 if some fail ahead, Show williams what he can do in a very disapointing car for a man with his talents

fpv_gtho
07-24-2004, 07:38 AM
well with button being moved back 10 places, that puts webber as starting 12th, so he's in for a rough start. i think though that the likes of frank williams and flavio briattore already have a fairly good idea of webber's talent, there wouldnt relly be too much more within his reach he could do before he announce who hes going to next year

SlickHolden
07-24-2004, 07:58 AM
We could hear the aussie anthem when he drives for williams its been a long long time AJ last, Think he has knocked back the drive with renault already

fpv_gtho
07-24-2004, 08:45 AM
anyone seen this?: http://www.formula1.com/race/news/1962/725.html

that first question really gave me a laugh, for the V8 Supercars, the press talk about people not taking pole position for years at times, and here theyre making a fuss about schumacher missing pole for the past couple of rounds :rolleyes:

Coventrysucks
07-24-2004, 12:49 PM
Interesting to see Davidson on top. When will someone sign him for next year?

The FIA found a "device" on the BAR third car that gave it better performance through the corners.
Unfortunately I can't find any links to the story.

Matra et Alpine
07-24-2004, 12:55 PM
The FIA found a "device" on the BAR third car that gave it better performance through the corners.
Unfortunately I can't find any links to the story.
The ITV coverage talked of 'numerous' parts on the car not meeting the FIA regs.
Sounded as if BAR may have done somethign innovative and they're not getting to play with it. Not one for stirring it, but would Ferrari get to race with it and then fight it later - conspiracy theories start now .........

r1ckst4
07-24-2004, 05:18 PM
it'd be nice to see Montoya or Kimi win the race this time... specialy Kimi for the good fight he gave, in the last GP with his MP14 9b...

fpv_gtho
07-24-2004, 08:06 PM
thats the MP4/19B

Matra et Alpine
07-25-2004, 05:53 AM
Kimi's event.

Taken from ITV coverage feed :)

Coventrysucks
07-25-2004, 06:55 AM
The FIA has announced an emergency meeting to discuss what can be done about today's disasterous race.

The move was announced after several cars were spotted overtaking on the race track!

"Obviously this kind of thing cannot be allowed to continue" said an insider, "excitement in F1 does no one any good"

The FIA was forced to take action early in the race after McLaren's Kimi Raikkonen looked as if he might have stood a chance of beating Michael Schumacher. After frantic discussions with the disgruntled Ferrari team, Bernie Ecclestone sanctioned using the "self destruct" button on the hapless Fin.

Then after Jenson Button's repeated attempts to overtake Alonso, the race directors released a bee into the BAR drivers helmet, forcing him to drive one handed.

Coventrysucks
07-25-2004, 07:03 AM
And don't forget, MotoGP British GP at Donington later.

Ciscoheat
07-25-2004, 11:10 AM
Ha ha ha ha!!!
Can imagine Bernie 'the pimp of F1' getting a bit worried that Kimmi might challenge Schumi.
Kimmi is inaudible at the best of time, but when they tried to interview him on ITV he made lesss sence than ever, he was vwry angry.

BTW has anyone seen the video of Montoya walking into a cameraman whilst gauping at Bernie going into the Ferrari trailer? Don't know which race it was, but it was hilarious.

Deckard
07-25-2004, 10:25 PM
Yes, I'm back!!!!

It was interesting to see that the German TV director hardly focused on MS during the whole race. He actually seemed to know what was going on and showed the overtaking manuovres. Bet he couldn't belive his luck that it was an interesting race.

Shame about Kimi, I'm not a fan of his or McLaren. Reckon I'd be well p@@@ed off as well, after nearly 12months of driving a granade with wheels, he finally is competative again and something else kills the car.

fpv_gtho
07-25-2004, 11:49 PM
yeah the coverage was probably the best its been all year, mean i comend schumacher for winning, but dont put all the attention on his race. im sure we'd rather see something like one of the Toyota's trying to pass a Sauber, then Schumacher out on the track all alon

henk4
07-26-2004, 01:41 AM
there was a story herre on TV that McLaren was experimenting with the way the rear wing parts are connected to the wing uprights. It was in the grey area of the reglementation. Obviously the connections were not very strong, and may be only Kimi's car had it fixed, otherwise DC would have been called in. If this crash had been fatal we might have seen another Senna/Williams legal procedure.

Matra et Alpine
07-26-2004, 04:22 AM
ITV coverage said it was a bonded part, that Coulthards was the same adn that the engineers had a close inspection when DC came in for a pit-stop.
( How you could adjust it becomes te question if that's the case :) )

Interestingly after the race when asked about it DC said the team had not told him anything about the wing !! Personally the sooner DC gets away from Ron Dennis the better - that is atrociaous treatment for a driver. They are the ones taking the risk and THEY should be the one to judge how to adjust their driving. It reeks of RD thinking his driver will go slower if he thinks it might fail. Well, Ron, that's for the driver to decide.

If it turns out that to be the case, I think the drivers association should make a stand and ensure that constructors in the future tell drivers of failures.

Coventrysucks
07-26-2004, 04:34 AM
McLaren said that it was a manufacturing defect, which is why they kept DC out.
If there was any chance of the same thing happening to him I'm sure they would have brought him in.

I was disgusted to see the Tifosi cheering as Raikkonen went into the wall at 190mph. If you ever wondered why I don't like Ferrari, that is part of the reason. I do not ever wish to be associated with that type of behavior.
Fine - if it is a spin, of fairly gentle impact, but not a bad high speed smash.

Matra et Alpine
07-26-2004, 05:02 AM
McLaren said that it was a manufacturing defect, which is why they kept DC out.
If there was any chance of the same thing happening to him I'm sure they would have brought him in.
I'm sure, how they could decide it was manufacturing defect and WASN'T the same on DCs is impossible !! Unlikely maybe :)
It's the fact they kept an important piece of information which MAY affect his car that was morally wrong. RD is a toe-rag !!

I was disgusted to see the Tifosi cheering as Raikkonen went into the wall at 190mph. If you ever wondered why I don't like Ferrari, that is part of the reason. I do not ever wish to be associated with that type of behavior.
Fine - if it is a spin, of fairly gentle impact, but not a bad high speed smash.
Well it's the way of the fans nowadays. Be honest, if Schumi started to lose it 90% of the audience would cheer before he even reached the gravel !!

Deckard
07-26-2004, 04:06 PM
I'm sure, how they could decide it was manufacturing defect and WASN'T the same on DCs is impossible !! Unlikely maybe :)
It's the fact they kept an important piece of information which MAY affect his car that was morally wrong. RD is a toe-rag !!

Well it's the way of the fans nowadays. Be honest, if Schumi started to lose it 90% of the audience would cheer before he even reached the gravel !!

What also baffles me is when RD says that they inspect it during the pit stop! How on earth do you check the integrety of a rear wing during the 8 sec of the pit stop and that's just by looking at it!!!!

I have to admit that I wasn't that impressed with the Ferrari fans either, but as you rightly say, if MS went out there would be a lot of people cheering.

Matra et Alpine
07-26-2004, 04:26 PM
What also baffles me is when RD says that they inspect it during the pit stop! How on earth do you check the integrety of a rear wing during the 8 sec of the pit stop and that's just by looking at it!!!!
Yep, Martin Brundle commented about how could they decide by visual inspection unless they had x-ray vision :)

henk4
07-26-2004, 11:36 PM
Yep, Martin Brundle commented about how could they decide by visual inspection unless they had x-ray vision :)

It could also be that only Kimi's car was fitted with this new type of wing, and that DC's inspection was only a formal one to keep up appearences. In this case I am pretty sure that DC was never told that new developments were given to his teammate(?).

Coventrysucks
07-27-2004, 03:32 AM
Maybe McLaren personnel do have X ray eyes?
;)

Matra et Alpine
07-27-2004, 07:00 AM
It could also be that only Kimi's car was fitted with this new type of wing, and that DC's inspection was only a formal one to keep up appearences. In this case I am pretty sure that DC was never told that new developments were given to his teammate(?).
Good point, knowing that DC is going they woulnd't tell him about new techniques and developments they may only put on Kimi's car. hand't thought of that !!!

Coventrysucks
07-27-2004, 01:04 PM
I suggest that the team has done 3800km(?) of testing after Silverstone with the new aero packages, also they may have used it in other races etc.
In conjunction with large ammounts of computer modelling and testing etc. they knew that the only thing that could have caused the failure was a manufacturing defect.

henk4
07-27-2004, 01:24 PM
I suggest that the team has done 3800km(?) of testing after Silverstone with the new aero packages, also they may have used it in other races etc.
In conjunction with large ammounts of computer modelling and testing etc. they knew that the only thing that could have caused the failure was a manufacturing defect.


I would accept that had not these rumours gone around about possible irregularities in the wing construction. But may be the thing was put together in a sloppy way

Matra et Alpine
07-27-2004, 01:36 PM
If it was a manufacturign defect there is NO WAY to know for sure DC's wasn't the same.

It may have been caused by too large an angle or too small a fillet or the autoclave not compressing the fibres enough. This would be almost impossible to tell once it sheared. Only ultrasonic or x-ray would tell on an intact section.

It is impossible for McLaren to KNOW that a defect wasn't repeated because of a process problem, error or oversight !!

At the least, DC should have been told and left to make his choice on how hard to push the ar.

UPDATE:
Just found a report with comments from the tream and DC....
http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=30781
... far too many assumptions and probablies.
Credit to DC for saying he woudl likely have continued racing.
AND STILL think RD's an a-hole for not giving the driver the responsibility.