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Homem de Gelo
07-28-2004, 01:44 PM
What do you think of them?
Which one do you prefer?

SIMPLETON
07-28-2004, 02:04 PM
Thats a tough choice. both have adequate straights and at least 1 hairpin. Could you tell us how long each is?

Matra et Alpine
07-28-2004, 02:33 PM
Like most modern tracks I think it lacks "sweeping" corners and corner changes ( both frowned on by the FIA :( )

The straights are too straight :) and the track looks too narrow.
Wide tracks and varying curves introduces the option of different routes through a corner which will lead to better 'racing' :)


Also what woukd the height variatinos be as that can introduce subtel differences to the cornering and overtaking opps.

Sweeney921
07-28-2004, 02:53 PM
if i had no choice in getting more sweeping corners, i would take the 2nd one.

Coventrysucks
07-28-2004, 02:56 PM
They look very geometric.
One feature people seem keen to eliminate these days is elevation.
All the great tracks have lots of up and down.
IIRC despite having over 100, none of the Nordschleife corners are flat.
Spa Francochamps, Bathurst etc.

Also length is important.
One has to wonder why all the good circuits are being cut down in length.
Le Mans, Hockenheim, Nurburgring.
There are hardly any circuits in the UK which haven't got "indy" varients, much shorter than the original length.

I prefer the longer circuits personally.
:)

AKlingel
07-28-2004, 03:00 PM
I would go with the 2nd one.. I like that layout just a lil bit better. Both are good ideas, but my only suggestion would be to lessen the number of 90 degree corners. I would also agree with everyone else about the sweeping curves ( those are fun). :cool:

Keep up the good work.. and post some more if and or when you get them

VtecMini
07-28-2004, 03:07 PM
Assuming they're not absurdly long, I'd go for the latter option, since it has a nice twisty section, whereas the the first one lacks such a stretch.

To me they both look designed for cars with scorching straight line performance and little else, but I could be wrong, since I know very little about track design.

Matra et Alpine
07-28-2004, 03:22 PM
They look very geometric.
as do all modern tracks :(

One has to wonder why all the good circuits are being cut down in length.
Le Mans, Hockenheim, Nurburgring.
Safety. Needing to guarantee to get fully trained medical staff to a car in minute and fire marshals to a car in sub 30 seconds means long tracks prove to be too expensive to operate.

There are hardly any circuits in the UK which haven't got "indy" varients, much shorter than the original length.
and neutered corners.
FIA had a "constant radius" directive on curves to prevent accidents caused by change of corners. The lunatics certainly took control of the madhouse when they decided that. It's tightening radius corneres that REALLY test a drivers skill. Shame

Homem de Gelo
07-29-2004, 09:12 AM
Regarding the circuit's length. The main straight on the first track is around 650m long (the length of the main straight at Silverstone). The main straight at the second track is about 850m long (the length of the backstraight that used to be at Adelaide).

From then on you can figure the proportions.



They look very geometric.
One feature people seem keen to eliminate these days is elevation.
All the great tracks have lots of up and down.
IIRC despite having over 100, none of the Nordschleife corners are flat.
Spa Francochamps, Bathurst etc.

Also length is important.
One has to wonder why all the good circuits are being cut down in length.
Le Mans, Hockenheim, Nurburgring.
There are hardly any circuits in the UK which haven't got "indy" varients, much shorter than the original length.

I prefer the longer circuits personally.
:)


I can't design elevation chages, they either exist on the terrain or not. It's just a matter of building it in the right place.

And circuits or getting shorter because of saftey and cost issues.

Matra et Alpine
07-29-2004, 09:39 AM
I can't design elevation chages, they either exist on the terrain or not. It's just a matter of building it in the right place..
You CAN design the elevation.

The "bomb hole" at Silverstone was filled in in the 40s. It was a perfectly level track until lots of complaints about it being boring and they CREATED the undulation.

Bahrain was excavated and built up to meet the design.

I've not checked China but I suspect it will be the same.

Most golf courses built in the last 10 years have 'built' the landscape.

It's now just a matter of cost. When first built tracks followed the terrain, no longer necessary. Moving rock doesn't cost much :)

You wouldn't be permitted to put a corner where the apex was on the crest as that would make the cars unstable during cornering. All in the name of safety ( and boredom ) which removes a lot of the skill and challenge of the driver. So it is important to 'design' the elevation of a circuit

Homem de Gelo
07-29-2004, 03:23 PM
I can't create them with 'only' a mechanic pencil and a ruler.

If I ever learn how to use autoCAD and other programs...

:P

Matra et Alpine
07-29-2004, 04:25 PM
I can't create them with 'only' a mechanic pencil and a ruler.

If I ever learn how to use autoCAD and other programs...

:P

Use the "traditional" methods before computers............

Draw contour lines :)

BTW, from the Shanghai web site - The axis of the race track is at its lowest point on + 4.50 m above sea level, the highest point in turn T 2 is on + 11.24 m above sea level. The maximum upward slope amounts to 3%, the maximum downward slope to 8%, the transverse downward slope of the roadway is 2,5%.

Matra et Alpine
07-29-2004, 05:22 PM
new thought :)

Do you have any racing sims for your PC ?

If you don't then get a life and get GPL :)

If you do, then look at the online support sites and see if you can create the track for the sim. Not only can you intriduce elevation but you can do flybys, and race on it for very little effort. One guy has recreated 30 of the 37 miles of the Isle of Man TT circuit for GPL. An excellent effort and VERY photoreaslitic, so it would be easy for an own-design track :)