Mk2 BA Falcon

[fpv_gtho]

"The BA Falcon represented a big step forward for Ford Australia when it was introduced in 2002. Now the new BA MkII Falcon is destined to build on the success of that model," said Ford Australia President Tom Gorman.

"With the launch of BA, the XR range of performance vehicles reignited the passion of driving enthusiasts around the country.

"The new cars combined an outstanding mix of superb driving dynamics with a range of powerplants including the exhilarating XR6 Turbo and the heady four-valve Boss 260 V8.

"XR led the showroom charge in the BA range, increasing sales mix from 6.8 per cent of total Falcon sales in 2002 to more than 27 per cent in 2004.

"Now our new Tremec T56 six-speed manual transmission, fine tuned by the FPV engineers to provide optimum performance, adds the final touch to the performance line-up, resulting in improved performance feel," Gorman said.

Performance Vehicle Planning Manager Gordon Barfield said the arrival of the new six-speed manual transmission heralded a new era for the high performance Ford models.

"The BA MkII XR6 Turbo and XR8 confirms Ford as the manufacturer providing enthusiast cars for enthusiast drivers.

"Drivers will appreciate the improved performance feel, while still having a gearbox that offers tractable performance through all the gears at typical driving speeds.

"Fifth gear is well suited to the 60 km/h speed limit and sixth gear pulls strongly below 100 km/h offering peace-of-mind motoring. The close ratios in the new gearbox make it easy to select the right gear for the right occasion."

Barfield confirmed the transmission would come with a unique gear set for both the XR6 Turbo and XR8, designed to match each engine's unique performance characteristics.

The final drive ratio in the XR8 has changed from 3.23 to 3.46, while the XR6 Turbo final drive ratio has shortened from 3.46 to 3.73.

Double synchros in all six forward gears will be a feature of the new six-speed transmission, along with a single synchro in reverse to ensure a sweet shifting movement.

"Ford and the Premier Automotive Group have a distinguished history employing the T56 six-speed transmission, which features on products such as the Mustang Cobra R and the Aston Martin V12 Vanquish.

"Drawing on that experience has helped in providing a transmission that further accentuates the sporting nature of the XR6 Turbo and XR8 while providing outstanding shift quality and performance feel."

Barfield said the MkII XR8 would also benefit from a suspension upgrade.

"Firmer spring rates have sharpened the steering response on the XR8 with a flatter ride and nimbler handling designed to further improve the athletic nature of the car," Barfield said.

Gorman said the MkII update would build on the inherent strengths of the BA program.

"The award-winning BA Falcon not only gained critical acclaim but won a host of important motoring, engineering and safety awards as well.

"More importantly it spearheaded a revival in the sales fortunes of Ford Australia built on providing product that inspires passion and confidence in the market.

"It also heralded a new era in motorsport with Marcos Ambrose reclaiming the V8 Supercar championship for the Blue Oval.

"MkII represents a further development of the BA Falcon with the changes driven by customer demand for extra features."

Creature comforts such as cruise control and automatic headlamps are now standard throughout the Falcon range and power adjustable pedals are standard on Futura.

Futura safety levels have also been boosted significantly with the MkII version now boasting side airbags as standard equipment.

The Falcon Ute range also features heavily in the MkII upgrade, with new creature comforts, alloy rims and exciting new paint colours.

"This update signals Ford Australia's intention to continue providing locally designed and engineered product that motivates people into Ford showrooms."

Gorman said the BA MkII Falcon would deliver a truly exhilarating driving experience with its comprehensive mix of locally engineered design excellence including:


Superb handling offered by the Control Blade IRS
Fully independent double wishbone front suspension
Five high-tech engines ranging through the economy offered by the E-Gas dedicated LPG, the technology of the DOHC Barra 182, the breathtaking performance of the turbocharged Barra 240T, the silky smooth performance of the Barra 220 SOHC V8 or the exhilarating four-valve DOHC range of Boss V8s
All new six-speed manual transmission on XR6 Turbo and XR8 Automatic transmission with Sequential Sports Shift (SSS) allowing complete manual control over gear selection.
Standard cruise and audio controls
60/40 split fold-down rear seat back
Best in class towing capacity.
"Of course, the MkII comes complete with the Intelligent Safety System that won the coveted Gold award at the Society of Australia Engineers Excellence Awards in 2003," Gorman said.

Employing a number of sensors, the system monitors information such as driver seating positioning and crash severity.

In an accident this information is fed to the Advanced Restraints Module (ARM), which instantly decides how best to deploy modern safety technologies such as dual stage inflation airbags, front seat pyrotechnic seat belt pretensioners and energy seat belt retractors.

Other safety features include; anti-intrusion (collapsible) brake pedal on automatic models, front and rear impact management body structure and ABS with electronic brakeforce distribution for improved stopping performance and steering control.

Falcon also remains a leader in the technology stakes with a number of Australian firsts:


First Australian-manufactured vehicle with Electronic Throttle Control (ETC)
First Australian-manufactured vehicle with anti-intrusion brake pedal
First Australian-manufactured vehicle with power adjustable pedals
First Australian-manufactured vehicle with dual-stage inflatable airbags
First Australian-manufactured vehicle with on-screen antenna
First Australian-manufactured vehicle with optional pollen filter
Model by model

[fpv_gtho]

BA MkII XT Sedan and Wagon


Cruise control
New wheel covers
Auto headlamps on/off
Traction Control available as an option on I6 manual sedan and V8 manual sedans
New paint colour: Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII Futura Sedan and Wagon


Side airbags
Power Adjustable Pedals
Auto headlamps on/off
New paint colour: Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII Fairmont


Power Adjustable Pedals
Reverse Sensing System
New paint colour: Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII Fairmont Ghia


New 17” alloy wheels
Leather and Woodgrain Sports Steering Wheel
Leather and Woodgrain Sequential Sports Shifter
New paint colour: Shockwave, Velocity and Blaze
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII XR6


New 17" alloy wheels
Alloy pedal covers
Second row centre armrest
Illuminated power window controls
Rear power windows
Traction Control on both manual and automatic transmission
Auto headlamps on/off
New paint colours: Blaze, Rapid, Velocity and Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII XR6 Turbo


New 17" alloy wheels
Alloy pedal covers
Second row centre armrest
Illuminated power window controls
Auto headlamps on/off
New six-speed manual transmission with short throw direct acting shift mechanism
Syncromesh on reverse gear
New gear shift knob with revised technical graphics
New paint colours: Blaze, Rapid, Velocity and Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII XR8


18" alloy wheels
Suspension upgrade
Alloy pedal covers
Second row centre armrest
Power window controls illumination
Prestige audio system
Auto headlamps on/off
New six-speed manual transmission with short throw direct acting shift mechanism
Syncromesh on reverse gear
New gear shift knob with revised technical graphics
New paint colours: Blaze, Rapid, Velocity and Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII XL Ute


Auto headlamps on/off
New paint colour: Shockwave
Second remote key fob
Variable dwell and speed sensitive windscreen wipers
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII RTV Ute


Auto headlamps on/off
New paint colour: Shockwave
Second remote key fob
Variable dwell and speed sensitive windscreen wipers
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII XLS Ute


Auto headlamps on/off
Second remote key fob
New side skirts
New body coloured side protection moulding
One tonne suspension on chassis cab
New paint colour: Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII XR6 Ute


New 17" alloy wheels
Alloy pedal covers
Auto headlamps on/off
New paint colours: Blaze, Rapid, Velocity and Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII XR6 Turbo Ute


New 17" alloy wheels
Alloy pedal covers
Auto headlamps on/off
New six-speed manual transmission with short throw direct acting shift mechanism
Syncromesh on reverse gear
New gear shift knob with revised technical graphics
New paint colours: Blaze, Rapid, Velocity and Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
BA MkII XR8 Ute


New 17" alloy wheels
Alloy pedal covers
Auto headlamps on/off
New six-speed manual transmission with short throw direct acting shift mechanism
Syncromesh on reverse gear
New gear shift knob with revised technical graphics
New paint colours: Blaze, Rapid, Velocity and Shockwave
Unique MkII badging
The new alloy rims on the XR6 and XR6 Turbo Falcon retain the classic five-spoke design while Fairmont Ghia boasts an elegant new diamond turned nine-spoke alloy.

The highly acclaimed Falcon palette is enhanced even further by the MkII update, with the addition of four exciting new colours.

Shockwave is inspired by the BA Falcon's successes on the track, adding a wave of uninhibited excitement to the athletic exterior of the Falcon, while Blaze is a rich metallic gold that is bold and daring.

Velocity is a youthful blue epitomising stand-out performance and enhances the sporting nature of the XR range while Rapid is a searing hot yellow not for the faint hearted.

MkII customers will also enjoy an expanded range of accessories, with the addition of several roof storage options originally designed for the Territory.

The MkII Falcon can be optioned with a bike carrier, canoe/kayak holder, 375 litre or 405 litre roof luggage box or ski/snowboard carrier.

Inside, a new 15-litre 'Day Tripper' car fridge is now available, while the addition of a games adaptor ensures the optional REX3 DVD system can play the latest Xbox, Playstation 2 or Game Cube video games.

"The MkII Falcon offers superior value that exceeds expectations and is both desirable and attainable, whether you yearn for the performance of the XR6 Turbo or the refined comfort of the Fairmont Ghia.

"With features such as IRS, cruise control and the award winning Intelligent Safety System, the MkII Falcon value proposition is unmatched," said Gorman

source: www.autoweb.com.au

[Spastik_Roach]

Compare the Falcon Classic with the Falcon XT, this new spec (limited edition?) has incredibly good bang for buck!! Its like a budget Fairmont Ghia!!

[Colty]

When is it been released?

[fpv_gtho]

Well i heard August not that long ago, but now im hearing October. Tom Gorman likes to keep the lid shut right until the last hour on details, unlike Geoph Polites with his dance of the 7 unveilings for the BS over 7 months and the year of propoganda for the Territory.

[Colty]

They didnt say anything about power gains or weight reductions :( :(

[fpv_gtho]

well its hard to say whether theres any more details to be released worth releasing. i didnt read anything on any new trims. its still early days and with the way Gorman runs the show, he'll announce the big things last

[SlickHolden]

Well it could go on a 4 month diet, Less weight might unstable the handling it has happend before my cousin had a drag car LJ torana, 14" rear rims wide tubed 4" front wheels had the full intiria full metal body, It would do mid 12's very fast he said it was a easy car to drive down the straight. 1 year later Removed the seats light weight driving seat changed the front smaller tank he got about 200kg out of it first run was all over the place he couldnt get it right the handling was shocking 13.1 was its best he sold it minus the engine and bought a VK Calais Its in this now he hasnt ran this car yet

[Colty]

haha i dont think taking out weight will hurt the BA :P

[fpv_gtho]

the best weight savng solution for the BA would be a switch to the alloy block and front sheetmetal changes, i.e, carbon fibre/alluminium/fibreglass bonnet and front guards. thankfully, the Mk2 has retuned springs over the BA XR8, and whilst the stock XR8 is said to have quite a bit of excessive understeer and is a bit doughy compared to the XR6T, the Mk2 should have them about lineball. even better still the XR8 is losing its ultra low 3.23 diff for the XR6T's 3.46, whilst the XR6T grabs the RWD territory's 3.73

[crisis]

"Now our new Tremec T56 six-speed manual transmission, fine tuned by the FPV engineers to provide optimum performance, adds the final touch to the performance line-up, resulting in improved performance feel," Gorman said.

Performance Vehicle Planning Manager Gordon Barfield said the arrival of the new six-speed manual transmission heralded a new era for the high performance Ford models.

"The BA MkII XR6 Turbo and XR8 confirms Ford as the manufacturer providing enthusiast cars for enthusiast drivers.

"Drivers will appreciate the improved performance feel, while still having a gearbox that offers tractable performance through all the gears at typical driving speeds.

"Fifth gear is well suited to the 60 km/h speed limit and sixth gear pulls strongly below 100 km/h offering peace-of-mind motoring. The close ratios in the new gearbox make it easy to select the right gear for the right occasion."

Barfield confirmed the transmission would come with a unique gear set for both the XR6 Turbo and XR8, designed to match each engine's unique performance characteristics.

The final drive ratio in the XR8 has changed from 3.23 to 3.46, while the XR6 Turbo final drive ratio has shortened from 3.46 to 3.73.

It will be interesting to see how this 6 speed manifests itself in the Falcon. "Pulls strongly below 100kmh in 6th"? Personally I find it a little tiresome to have to struggle with 6 gears all the time for normal driving. Unlike the masses I like 6th as an overdrive. I generall go from 1-2-5 or 1-2-4 in normal city driving.

[SlickHolden]

My Brother drive his $ speed very much like this, Uses 1-2-3 around driving and only goes to 4th on the freeway stops the slug feeling

[fpv_gtho]

ive got a feeling the T-56 ford put in the XR6T and XR8 could well end up being and feeling alot different to the one GM use. the twin synchros on the forward gears is a bit of an indication, but i dont know what to think of them saying 6th will pull strongly below 100km/h. before the VY, the commodore's 6th was widely described as a freeway gear, but some have said that ated to the Barra240T or BOSS260, it would have the low down torque to pull from much lower speeds

[Colty]

Ford are trialing aluminium diffs, for the next BA which seems to be BA MK2

[fpv_gtho]

where did you hear that? cast iron's been used for ages in diff's because of its strength (3x that of alluminium), so i suspect they'd need either a pretty good alloy or a strong casting method to make it withstand.

[Colty]

My dad was doing work on the diff and he told me :cool:

[fpv_gtho]

well its certainly something iv only just heard about. wheels did spread rumour though that Ford had been testing Jag's 6 speed ZF auto with a 2.7:1 rear diff though

[SlickHolden]

Anyone hear about the new 4lt ford donk with 220kw power that is way ahead of time they might get it in for the all new shape. Being build in the US with Aus help, they also said that the 4lt has showed up the V8 on many times, So the next V8 will be i forgot now i'll look it up

[fpv_gtho]

Power: 220kW @ 7200rpm
Torque: 460Nm @ 4600rpm (400Nm from 1200rpm)
Bore: 94mm
Stroke: 96mm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Configuration: Inline 6
Construction: Lightweight Alloy Block and Head, Iron Sleeved Bores, Forged Steel Crankshaft and Rods
Firing Order: 153624
Valve Actuation: 4 Valves per Cylinder, Infinitely Variable Solenoid Actuated Valves
Fuel: Sequential Petrol or LPG Injection
Ignition: Crank Angle Sensor, Coil on Plug, 6 Knock Sensors
Features: Piston Cooling Oil Jets, Electronic Water Pump, Continuously Variable Length Intake Runners, Ceramic Coated Tuned Length Exhaust Headers, Drive-By-Wire


As you said, should be out by about 2007 with the all new shape as well as the 6.2L MOD.

Its still going to be built here though, but to cover costs it will more than liely go into the new F series Mustang, Explorer and Crown Victoria

[SlickHolden]

Like holden and the alloytech engines still have some imput in the development of them.

[fpv_gtho]

well itson a much larger scale than that, as far as im concerned though Holden had very little input into the HFV6. its more in line with Zeta.....holden had the experience, GM had the money. same goes with this new 6, its been too long since ford america had a good straight six that they go all alone in the development of a new one, so who better than ford oz who turned a 40 year old pushrd 6 into a DOHC technical marvel

[Blue Supra]

way to come charging in with your head held high and your facts out your arse. You work in managment dont you. FPV and Slick are the two most knowledgable Aussie car members here. I woodnt question their opinion. You think that caused youve read wheels mag that you know the ins and outs and everything there is to know about these two cars? dream on mate your only kidding yourself. I suggest you learn some self control too. Brain explosions like your last post wont go a long way to keeping you here any length of time. :mad:

EDIT: this was not aimed at either Slick or FPV rather some newb who called you both idiots and worse so i reported bad post and has since been removed, just to clear up any confusion.

[Colty]

awww i wanted to see what he said :(

[fpv_gtho]

ditto that, there isnt even a quote :( :p

[SlickHolden]

Who said who what where when how do you do who ? :D

[Colty]

Blue Supra what did he say?

[SlickHolden]

Yeah who the hell what the hell going down ???:D

[Falcon500]

It was only really dribble getting at slick...because hes a holden fan more then anything else...it also contained a few obsecnitys...and he babbled on about this seemingly unfair comparison in wheels with the normal XR6 and SV6...which i read and it seemed quite line ball to me...it seemed fair and the BA still got a higher rateing through ride quality,value and safety where holden still got rightly due acclaims good value also,good handeling albiet stiff and "not as liniar as the falcons" being a notch faster and a notch more ecconmical and being a vast improvement over the previous model...also the japense made 5 speeder got rave reviews...

[charged]

It was only really dribble getting at slick...because hes a holden fan more then anything else...it also contained a few obsecnitys...and he babbled on about this seemingly unfair comparison in wheels with the normal XR6 and SV6...which i read and it seemed quite line ball to me...it seemed fair and the BA still got a higher rateing through ride quality,value and safety where holden still got rightly due acclaims good value also,good handeling albiet stiff and "not as liniar as the falcons" being a notch faster and a notch more ecconmical and being a vast improvement over the previous model...also the japense made 5 speeder got rave reviews...Really they are now both truley world class cars but when is ford going to get a 5 or 6 speed auto behind the XR6 Turbo that would make it a fantastic drive or are there concerns with the amount of torque it produces :)

[charged]

Power: 220kW @ 7200rpm
Torque: 460Nm @ 4600rpm (400Nm from 1200rpm)
Bore: 94mm
Stroke: 96mm
Compression Ratio: 10.0:1
Configuration: Inline 6
Construction: Lightweight Alloy Block and Head, Iron Sleeved Bores, Forged Steel Crankshaft and Rods
Firing Order: 153624
Valve Actuation: 4 Valves per Cylinder, Infinitely Variable Solenoid Actuated Valves
Fuel: Sequential Petrol or LPG Injection
Ignition: Crank Angle Sensor, Coil on Plug, 6 Knock Sensors
Features: Piston Cooling Oil Jets, Electronic Water Pump, Continuously Variable Length Intake Runners, Ceramic Coated Tuned Length Exhaust Headers, Drive-By-Wire


As you said, should be out by about 2007 with the all new shape as well as the 6.2L MOD.

Its still going to be built here though, but to cover costs it will more than liely go into the new F series Mustang, Explorer and Crown VictoriaForget the 6.2 what ford need to do is shorten the stroke and increase the bore of the 5.4 I cant see the point of quad cam 32 valves for better breathing at high rpms when in reality the 5.4L is a long stroke truck motor that will never rev hard as the piston speed will be to high its just physics all the really good v8 or any motor really are undersquare in relation to bore/stroke

[SlickHolden]

It was only really dribble getting at slick...because hes a holden fan more then anything else...it also contained a few obsecnitys...and he babbled on about this seemingly unfair comparison in wheels with the normal XR6 and SV6...which i read and it seemed quite line ball to me...it seemed fair and the BA still got a higher rateing through ride quality,value and safety where holden still got rightly due acclaims good value also,good handeling albiet stiff and "not as liniar as the falcons" being a notch faster and a notch more ecconmical and being a vast improvement over the previous model...also the japense made 5 speeder got rave reviews...
Hope he has a tissue to wipe that mess off his face :D
I really don't know why he would go off the rocker cause if he read the thread it was all good talk in here :D Did he get banned ?

And thanks for the deffence Blue:D

[Blue Supra]

Thats alright Slick, i look out for me mates;)

[fpv_gtho]

Really they are now both truley world class cars but when is ford going to get a 5 or 6 speed auto behind the XR6 Turbo that would make it a fantastic drive or are there concerns with the amount of torque it produces :)


Ford US are developing a 6 speed with ZF right now which should be production ready close to 2005 which would be around the BA's mid life update, but apparently BTR are considering a 6 speed version of their current unit.

[fpv_gtho]

Forget the 6.2 what ford need to do is shorten the stroke and increase the bore of the 5.4 I cant see the point of quad cam 32 valves for better breathing at high rpms when in reality the 5.4L is a long stroke truck motor that will never rev hard as the piston speed will be to high its just physics all the really good v8 or any motor really are undersquare in relation to bore/stroke

although that would be preferable, to achieve that it would be easier just to start from scratch. Ford US already rev theyre 5.4's in the Cobra R and GT to 6500rpm and manage to get away with it. The reality is though, that both the 5.4 and 6.2 were designed for the F-150 initially so they needed alot of torque. The 6.2 will have a squarer design than the 5.4 so it should easily rev harder, but not many people want to always rev their car over 6000rpm unlesss they need to. without the quad cams though, because of the long stroke, the engine wouldnt be getting enough airflow to fill the combustion chamber so the engine wouldnt be any good above the SOHC's 5250rpm limiter

[charged]

although that would be preferable, to achieve that it would be easier just to start from scratch. Ford US already rev theyre 5.4's in the Cobra R and GT to 6500rpm and manage to get away with it. The reality is though, that both the 5.4 and 6.2 were designed for the F-150 initially so they needed alot of torque. The 6.2 will have a squarer design than the 5.4 so it should easily rev harder, but not many people want to always rev their car over 6000rpm unlesss they need to. without the quad cams though, because of the long stroke, the engine wouldnt be getting enough airflow to fill the combustion chamber so the engine wouldnt be any good above the SOHC's 5250rpm limiterOnly if they shorten the stroke but I must admit the 6.2 will be a torqey bugger and it wont really need to rev to 6 grand, :) horrah about the auto that will be slotted int he falcon :)

[fpv_gtho]

the Ford engineers should be able to figure something out...the engine's being developed in response to the 6L LS2 and 6.2L Hemi and the US want 350hp stock, the current 3V 5.4 in the states gets 300hp. The 6.2 MOD wont be the only one packing alot of torque, the LS2 gets 295kw and 540nm and theres the LS7 version still to be released. 600nm shouldnt be too far out of reach you'd imagine

[SlickHolden]

I herd about a 340KW GTS, Will FPV go and match it up if that comes about, Or do you think it's just a rumour, And FPV will just keep building the cars to match the R8 $for$ KWforKW:)
See i personaly don't agree with hsv going to 340kw if ford hasnt got a 330-350kw engine in the works, Cause cars will sell better if they are more close to each other not far apart,
Like now both base models are close all the way to the peformence cars and that better to have them close gives them more competition they all work harder better for us in the long run:D And both have something the other doesn't so it's cool:) Ford-turbo Holden-Coupe

[fpv_gtho]

i think theyre more than rumors, the 6.2L LS7 might get 370kw. the 6.2L mod could reach those figures i suppose, Herrod with just cam and exhaust changes things the XR8's engine will hit 350kw. right now though, theres the 370kw supercharged 5.4

[SlickHolden]

It's been said this could be the next HSV, And there hasnt been anything from them in the public they are keeping the cards very close to there chest about this VZ. Not even a snap shot on a car yet wounder what they are playing at?
Could it be cause what i was saying about Ford said Boss engine not Boss260 they might be thinking we will wait and see whats going on at the oval office first, Could they make 270 XR and 300 GT's ?

[fpv_gtho]

im not really expecting power changes for the Mk2, with how long the BA's going to be around, Mk2 is probably more comparable with the VY2 than VZ. around 2005 with the rumoured 6 speed auto though, there might be power increases

[SlickHolden]

Yes hold back a little for when VE come around. Cause of the wait till the all new Ford.
Maybe a 370KW ford could take some of the hype away from VE.

[fpv_gtho]

370kw is probably getting a bit too much right now for Falcons and Commodores, the government would have a heart attack like they did for the Phase 4, XU2 and E50 i think it was

[charged]

370kw is probably getting a bit too much right now for Falcons and Commodores, the government would have a heart attack like they did for the Phase 4, XU2 and E50 i think it wasDo you mean the prototype Charger e55 4speed Charger Chrysler where developing before the goverment intervened.Sorry Im a bit anally retentive when it comes to chargers.(Dont hate me Pity me)

[fpv_gtho]

that couldve been it, ive never been good with chargers

[SlickHolden]

I know HSV might offer a supercharger on there cars but it could be to expensive, But the only good thing is it wont hurt the warranty from them.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah i heard something about HSV releasing a PWR developed supercharger kit, apparently its VERY similar to a kit available for the Pontiac GTO stateside, but from what ive heard its going to be first released on the Coupe4 (managed to see one today actually, looked a bit dirty :p )

[Colty]

In my opinion a supercharged GTS or GT just wouldnt be right, anyway, are superchargers worth it in this situation as they do tend to overheat and they whistle too much :O

[fpv_gtho]

some people like that whistle they give off though. i know its not for everyone though, thats why CAPA offer their 400kw quite trim superchager for the XR8

I think you right in that it wouldnt be right, at least for the GTS. that is realy HSV's road racer model, it would be fine if they had a supercharger option, but when it comes to engines and racing, it seems the most reliable is naturally aspirated, but in this case its only for visual purposes. either way though both the 5.7 and 5.4 will have its limits for natural aspiration, where supecharging or turbo charging are the only methods left

[SlickHolden]

Yeah capa have silent superchargers, But i wouldn't mind a nose from myn if i had one:D. I remeber in a book a guy had a twin turbo VT SS about 650hp at the wheels, Think he just had a standard auto for it and wheels wern't much enzo or something. Under the bonnet it was these 2 huge pipes for the turbos lookes mean and they ahd to do some engine bay mods to fit it all in there, I wounder would a V8 sound funny with a blow off valve ?. The rice cars get carried away with them now a days, this guy down the road has a old laser 2 door turbo, Intercooler at the front 15" wheels blow off valve 4.5" tip lol it's bluye and grey two tonne. I was out the front the other day when he gave it to it, If i said it was slow i would be full of it, And if i said it was fast i'm full of it, but it did move a lot faster then i expected it to, It wasn't slow:eek:

[fpv_gtho]

well i think alot of people have been shocked when they pull up alongside an XR6, just to hear the BOV and realise its the turbo :p they'd probably get an even better shock from a V8. I think for some of CAPA's better kits like the 560kw LS1 stroker and 525kw XR8 they engineer the kit to make some noise

[SlickHolden]

That supercharger isn't the one that sits in the centre of the donk is it like the old eaton on the V6?

[fpv_gtho]

theyre both vortec units hanging off the left hand side of the block

[SlickHolden]

I seen one on capa website maybe, And then i seen on ls1tech a guy came in with some pics of the one they had on a gto, I brought the capa pic in and ask them did they copy us :D no answer lol:D

[fpv_gtho]

well capa offer both eaton and vortec kits on the LS1, the ortec though easily out performs the eaton. have you seen the kits from starr performance? one of his kits hes got a autorotor supercarger ontop of the engine, with the intake at the front and a second shaft driving the pulley up the back from the front

[SlickHolden]

Yes the one in the middle i have seen that, The yanks have just made one like that. But there the only 2 i have seen.

[fpv_gtho]

now that im thinking of it, and after posting the pics from capa, im pretty sure STARR performance have the air going into the back of the supercharger rather than have it the wrong way round with a transfer shaft ala CAPA

i think the GTO's supercharger is called a magnacharger or something........i think thats what i heard after flicking through ls1.com.au

[Colty]

i think theyre more than rumors, the 6.2L LS7 might get 370kw. the 6.2L mod could reach those figures i suppose, Herrod with just cam and exhaust changes things the XR8's engine will hit 350kw. right now though, theres the 370kw supercharged 5.4


In my opinion i think that if petrol prices continue to rise that Holden/HSV wont even bring out the GEN4

[fpv_gtho]

I think HSV are pretty much set to put the LS2 in the VZ Clubsport with 290kw. The new wheels mag has alot about it apparently, but Denny Mooney has said that the LS2 is "at least" 1 year away from its Commodore debut. Basically VE then as its a little over a year away now isnt it? Early 2006 theyre predicting it to be released

[Falcon500]

The Gen IV is actually a lighter block then the Gen III it also has alot of neat tricks to help it savefuel...but that saidunlike theiroriongalplans it doesnt have the twin camshafts' in in the block like orgonally planeed it just the same thing refined once more.....it all smells faintly of ford hanging onto the flathead....I wonder if Chevrolet will siffer like ford did when theydidnt move on?

[Colty]

Surely it is thirstier than the LS1, its a bigger engine and makes more power.

VZ getting a GEN4 is news to me, i thought it was coming out in VE,

[Falcon500]

Surely it is thirstier than the LS1, its a bigger engine and makes more power.

VZ getting a GEN4 is news to me, i thought it was coming out in VE,
It all depends on the way its driven in theory it quite lineball but once that right foot slams down it all down the grugler.....

It may or may not come out....imstill doubting it but parts listings have recently come out for gen Iv on the holden part finder (as my italian mate from workshop parts found out) wether or not it will or nots another thing....holden usually talk about doing things and as of the last time i heard no comment was made....so either its a secret (and nearly all secrets are poorly kept in this industry) or they arnt planning anything as of yet.

[Spastik_Roach]

I would like to see someone Twin Turbo a FPV Typhoon when it comes out, if you got it right so it didn't lag to much, you could make some mean power!

[fpv_gtho]

a twn turbo setup could produce more problems than solutions though. the fastest GTR's in the world swap the twin turbos for a big single. the only acception to this seems to be the series 6 RX-7, which seems to always stick to the twins.

As for the LS2, my money would still be on VZ HSV then for VE across the range

[Falcon500]

a twn turbo setup could produce more problems than solutions though. the fastest GTR's in the world swap the twin turbos for a big single. the only acception to this seems to be the series 6 RX-7, which seems to always stick to the twins.

As for the LS2, my money would still be on VZ HSV then for VE across the range
Well HSV parts are usually found as an option in the normal parts section...these where found by accident in a stand alone look :rolleyes: so nothings dedicated yet...UNLESS they are getting ready to sell somefor imports (ie kit cars or prehaps vettes orsomething off chance) or they are just getting ready for the sake of saveing work....

[fpv_gtho]

well how would you really be able to know for sure.....we all know that the 2005 GTO will get the LS2 and its highly possible the Clubsport will get it, but the puzzle just isnt falling together

[SlickHolden]

I spoke to a guy at holden asked him will the LS2 come in VZ SS.
Answer NO It will come for VE in 15 Months. As for HSV i forgot to ask:(
I got a call from the same dude today about some VYII cars

[SlickHolden]

I spoke to a guy at holden asked him will the LS2 come in VZ SS.
Answer NO It will come for VE in 15 Months. As for HSV i forgot to ask:(
I got a call from the same dude today about some VYII cars

[anubis8221]

SlickHolden, the VZ SS is already out and we all know it doesn't have an LS2. The question is will the HSV VZ series come out with the LS2? My guess is that HSV will put the LS2 into HSV's, but not at the mentioned 298 Kw.

[fpv_gtho]

well to comply to the stricter emission rules, i think it would drop it down to the 290kw i mentioned before. i wouldnt be surprised though if he asked the dealer a couple of months ago

[Colty]

How long does it take for HSV to bring their cars out after Holden?

[fpv_gtho]

i think usually theyre just a month or so after, but for the VZ theyre using the australian international motorshow to release it

[Colty]

IM soooo going to the motorshow!

[SlickHolden]

If it does end up in VZ HSV it wont be 5kw above ls1.
What you might see is the clubsport maloo with ls1 still maybe all but one car. GTS ls2 310kw-320kw or so ? They can make the ls1 to 290kw Series 2 GTS 330kw.
But as base models of hsv they must keep them up 30-40kw more then holden.
VE will have ls2 @270kw-280kw so that meens hsv will need 305kw-320kw they dont won't holden pissing on there ground. Some on ls1.com think hsv people now a days get nervous when they pull up at the lights and a SS comes next to them. I find that hard to belive if both are standard factory:eek:

[fpv_gtho]

well the engine standard is around 295kw-298kw but thats with the less restrictive US exhaust, put a local exhaust on and it would only be on 290kw, which isnt killing the GTS yet, and still above the 250kw SS and 260kw CV8 by a healthy margin. With the GTS on the special build list, its not that big a problem how close in performance it is to the Clubby, the fact is with the adjustable Ohlins and AP racing brakes, it'll be seconds quicker around a race track

[Colty]

Why be scared of SS's

[fpv_gtho]

Well if you had a VT2 or VX Clubby with only 250/255kw and you came across a VY2/VZ SS with 245/250kw you might be..

[Blue Supra]

Out at the hill climb track last time i was there, a young bloke brought a VS V8 TURBO!!! Slick you wanted to know if it sounds cool having a BOV on a V8? HELL YES IT SOUNDS COOL! VROOOOOM! PCHSH! VROOOOOM PCHSH! he musta had a fat turbo under there too, it was LOUD! like the back of the tracks a good 300 metres away at least and you could here the BOV from there! Such a monster! it didnt do too well around the track though, thers no where for it to really open up id love to see it on a quarter strip but!:D:D

[fpv_gtho]

i actually saw some pics of an XD 351 turbo the other day...it looked alright with all the plumbing, although i didnt like the fact it was single turbo. costs savings for extra lag and dulled response :(

[Blue Supra]

Twin turbo is great but if youve already got a 5L+ donk in there then youre going to be hard pressed to fit anything else in there let alone two turbos, it really just depends on how far the owner wants to go and how big his bank balance/ loan is.

[fpv_gtho]

well most of the 5L v8's are still pretty small, its just got to all be packaged right, but cost can be a ral issue if your forking out for twice the money on turbo's and custom exhaust manifolds

[Blue Supra]

exactly, putting a single turbo on is expensive enough, double that and then some and youve got two...

[fpv_gtho]

you can get lucky sometimes if someones developed a kit, although TTV8 kits are pretty rare. kits really are only considerably better than doing it yourself on something like an XR6T where the major hardware's already there, like the ECU tuning, exhaust and turbo

[Colty]

Well if you had a VT2 or VX Clubby with only 250/255kw and you came across a VY2/VZ SS with 245/250kw you might be..


ahh yes that could be a problem for the HSV :D

[Blue Supra]

Id be so cut! but a HSV and in less then 5 years theyre releasing the SS with more grunt then youre clubsport!

[Colty]

Well the xr8 has more grunt than the T-Series of the AU like 1 year after, but yeah, it kinda shows that i think were soon due for another supercar scare, or we'll hit a wall and power will stop increasing, like if petrol prices keep rising.

[fpv_gtho]

the difference is with the Fords though, the XR8 had 100kg to go with the 10kw over the TE50, so the TE50's times are matched by the XR6T and only slightly beaten by the GT

[Colty]

I wouldve thought the xr8 would be as quick as the TE50, they feel about as quick as each other.

[fpv_gtho]

The difference is about 0.2 of a second if you believe Motor....but i think the 5.4 requires a bit more to loosen it up (perhaps because of the long stroke :confused:) than the windsor based 5.6...barely anything from judging how it feels, differences like that can ONLY be seen on paper, so perhaps thats one of the things keeping people buying XR8's in the wake of the XR6T.

[Colty]

People who I talk too that have an xr8 or GT say that their car seems to get pokier more and more as you do more miles, my car has done almost 11000 and i CAN notice quite a difference in grunt, but then theres the GT that was stock making 283kW at the rear wheels where the GTS was making 266kW(same dyno btw).

[SlickHolden]

I think if you had a Monaro Series1 and a VZ monaro came next to you you would shit:D.
But as for the shift in power holden has moved from 220kw in 99 to 260kw in 2004.
But from 2002 to 2004 it has jumped from 235kw to 260kw so the times they are a changing. So series 2 VZ should go up again 5-10kw. If FPV go up in power then HSV get LS2 and make 290kw and FPV makes 295-300 Just because GTS has got some great gear in it world class F1 brakes Adjustable suspension stuff on it i have never herd of on a aussie built car it's got the lot, But if i had the chance to but a VZ Clubsport with some extra options performence brakes-performence supension leather seats, And LS2 engine 290kw About $67,000. Go GTS 300kw all standard options only thing u might want extra is dvd player or sat nav ? Price $97,000 As much as i would love the GTS it's not worth it with only 300 puppys. Make it $105,000 with LS6 320kw :D then you talking:D
So what i am saying is and it's hard to say this really but with a base Club with LS2 @ 290-295kw and GTS 300kw it's not worth building a GTS anymore who would pay that money now for a GTS 300 when you can buy a base club for $37,000 less and only 10-5kw less. That's why it should have 320kw make it worth the money power wise also as i said it's got the gear just needs more power to survive or a price cut :D

[Colty]

I think if you had a Monaro Series1 and a VZ monaro came next to you you would shit

I havent experienced a VZ monaro yet but i can tell you if a series 1 monaro tried to blow off my car, theyd be in for a shock, regardless of what Motor say.


But as for the shift in power holden has moved from 220kw in 99 to 260kw in 2004.

In my opinion thats probably because Ford started to get a bit more serious with their v8s, correct me if im wrong but i beleive the AU1 XR8 had about 190kW? Holden didnt have to worry at all when it came to straight line, then i guess they got frightened when the BA came out as then the Clubsport went straight from 260 to 285 in the course of about one year or so.

[Falcon500]

Out at the hill climb track last time i was there, a young bloke brought a VS V8 TURBO!!! Slick you wanted to know if it sounds cool having a BOV on a V8? HELL YES IT SOUNDS COOL! VROOOOOM! PCHSH! VROOOOOM PCHSH! he musta had a fat turbo under there too, it was LOUD! like the back of the tracks a good 300 metres away at least and you could here the BOV from there! Such a monster! it didnt do too well around the track though, thers no where for it to really open up id love to see it on a quarter strip but!:D:D
Well if its a red one ive seen it around queanbeyan it doesnt have a turbo lol heput on a fake blow offvaluvefor the nats lmao.

[SlickHolden]

I havent experienced a VZ monaro yet but i can tell you if a series 1 monaro tried to blow off my car, theyd be in for a shock, regardless of what Motor say.



In my opinion thats probably because Ford started to get a bit more serious with their v8s, correct me if im wrong but i beleive the AU1 XR8 had about 190kW? Holden didnt have to worry at all when it came to straight line, then i guess they got frightened when the BA came out as then the Clubsport went straight from 260 to 285 in the course of about one year or so.
The only thing HSV got worried about with the boss was numbers, A VYI HSV Club 260 would still take a XR8260, But whos going to buy a car that has same power output to the opositions factory best, It's not even the high performence range it's just XR8. So they had to jump up and increase the KW's to justafy selling them as high performence high priced cars.
XR8 260 @ the time in 2002 was $55,000 ??? Correct me if i'm wrong i think i am:). Then you Got Clubsport260 $59,000 ??? Not that it couldn't match it with the 290GT but it made it look as if the Clubs rivial was the XR8 which is no offence a embarrasment to hsv when they build there cars to match and try and better the best from fords high performence partner FPV. So up the KW's and it runs where it should be againts FPV's.

[Colty]

Yeh and especially since the XR8 is a SS competitor, having 260kW vs 235kW would have definately taken away from Holden Sales, regardless of the weight disadvantage, as i doubt many of the people who buy them actually know the difference in the 2 cars weights.

[SlickHolden]

But i can't help but get the feeling that XR8 was made to give Base HSV's a foot in the rear :D

[Colty]

and to show Ford arent mucking around anymore :)

[fpv_gtho]

Holden and HSV for VY2 had their kneejerk reaction to the BA really. For VY Holden claimed the SS had moved too upmarket, so they deleted the Executive V8 and added the SV8. once the XR8 was released from a delayed start from the development of the BOSS (since it had only been approved late 2001/early 2002), Wheels tested it against both the SS and Clubby, and the result had the XR8 squarely between the two, infering the XR8 had possibly moved even more upmarket than the SS (despite the Berlina options in the SS compared to the Futura interior in the XR). Once the GT was compared to the Clubby (and GT-P vs R8) it was starting to look like Ford and Holden weren't exactly on competing terms...Thus the VY2 had the power to match the Falcons on paper, despite the fact they were already a match at the drag strip

[SlickHolden]

That's what i said lol:D

[fpv_gtho]

wel the way i put it you can see how everything evolved :p

[Falcon500]

wel the way i put it you can see how everything evolved :p
And will continue to evolve....Its all panning out great....give a few more facelifts and prehaps evena new model and well be on fairly level pegging with alot of euro trash and rising sun warriors.

[SlickHolden]

Are you trying to say i don't make sence :D :p

[fpv_gtho]

no slick, i was just saying that compared to the conversation between you and colty, the way i wrote it was more structured :p

[Colty]

If Ford decide to keep the power figures the same for MK2 then i guess that Holden will start to go up by 5kW each facelift again, which they have done for the SS. BTW how much power do u lose when u turn the air conditioner on?

[fpv_gtho]

Its fairly negligible, maybe not even 1kw.

Holden has a habit of increasing their power outputs incrementally and that 5kw is a given, but with the rumours of another Falcon facelift possibly in 2005 to go with a 6 speed auto and slightly lower weight would make anything serious a bit pointless.

[Colty]

My dad tells me that the Electic motors underneath the seats in the BA weigh 15kg! Thats alot of weight for something that makes your seat move for you, and theres probably other little things that weigh alot

[fpv_gtho]

Yeah, there'd be tonnes of little things that would all add up, so you can probably infer its not impossible for FPV to drop a GTHO down to, say 1700kg if they weren't going to make it a luxo barge. take off the air con, radio, electric seats, electric windows, sound deadening, leather seats, maybe even rear seats completely, floor carpet etc.

[Colty]

Plus they could use a lighter flywheel which i believe also increases power and aluminium diff etc

[fpv_gtho]

The lighter flywheel should give it slightly better acceleration, as would a carbon drive shaft, but they'd probably have to increase the idle a bit as the flywheel keeps the momentum on the crankshaft basically

[Colty]

Argh alot of power upgrades could be done if they increase the idle

[fpv_gtho]

well they could definately have alot more to play around with in the cams department, i know DJR and Herrod are trying to crack the codes on the ECU so that they can raise both the rev limit and idle. if they were cheeky they'd raise the speed limiter whilst they were at it:p

[Colty]

My dad wants to put Bigger Camshafts among other things in our car but its not worth it unless you can raise the idle. Someone will crack it eventually though.

[fpv_gtho]

Well theres still the grind that Herrod stuck on the DJR HP320 so thats a start, but even Herrods saying the big gains will come from an increased idle. that and an increased rev limit as the engines capable of more, but held back for safety and long term reliability

[Colty]

I heard the BOSS engine can rev to 6800rpm, if there was no limiter

[fpv_gtho]

That sounds about what the 4.6 revs to, and thats got a square bore/stroke. America revved the Cobra R to 6250 which was what the BOSS was designed from, but the all alloy Ford GT engine revs to 6500

[Colty]

It revs to 6800 with a rev limiter or without.

I know I heard it can rev as high a 6800, but i forget where i heard it from.

[fpv_gtho]

that'd be with the limiter for the 4.6....i dont know what you could do if you say went to someone like Sean Hyland Motorsport and got the 5.4 parts and just pieced it together through a Motec or something, i'd say youve found the limit either once it doesnt wanna go any further or you throw a rod :p

[Colty]

Perhaps Ford will increase Idle with mk2 ~=D?

[fpv_gtho]

Well i doubt they'd do it just for the hell of it, with no hp gains to the engines then they wouldnt see the reason unfortunately

[Colty]

LOL i say that because im still waiting to be surprised with a HP gain for the mk2 when i go to the Sydney Motor Show :D :p

[fpv_gtho]

well "maybe" we'll be lucky and get a 300kw GT, but i think with the planned life of the BA, any "major" upgrades like what Holden done for the VZ are about a year away

[SlickHolden]

no slick, i was just saying that compared to the conversation between you and colty, the way i wrote it was more structured :p
Are you trying to say i'm not Structured :p :D :D J/k :D

[fpv_gtho]

I wasnt trying to say anything, i went ahead and did it :p :D

[SlickHolden]

:D we need more funny faces...

MODS CAN WE HAVE MORE FUNNY FACES PLEASE, THESE ONES ARE BORING AS BAT SHIT NOW WE NEED MORE LIFE LIKE ONE'S

[Colty]

well "maybe" we'll be lucky and get a 300kw GT, but i think with the planned life of the BA, any "major" upgrades like what Holden done for the VZ are about a year away

I rkn they could stick a 300kW badge on the current ones and get away with it somehow, maybe even a 310! =O!!!

[fpv_gtho]

Yeah, with an appeal like that, your really gunna get your way :p :D

[fpv_gtho]

I rkn they could stick a 300kW badge on the current ones and get away with it somehow, maybe even a 310! =O!!!


I read somewhere that a glitch in the ECU for the first batch of Mk1's had them producing close to 300kw out of FPV's workshop, so they had to be brought back in for a retune

[Colty]

It seems like they make more though when they have loosened up :confused:

[fpv_gtho]

Well its likely that, say after $10K, the looser engine internals yeild an extra couple of kW, but the loosened driveline might give 10-20kw better

[Colty]

Well thats about 320kW then, which has shown on dynos as well.

[fpv_gtho]

not necessarily, standard GTs make about 220rwkw and the most common, big improvement, seems to be stock standard GT's reading 250rwkw

[Colty]

Ive heard of a GT making 283rwkw where a GTS was making 266rwkw. It would must have something to do with the k's on the clock,

[fpv_gtho]

Or perhaps the dyno setting, but thats by far the highest ive seen. Usually the GTS AND GT only get about 300hp at the treads, and thats from the showroom. those figures there would be about 370hp and 385hp

[Colty]

Well a chassis dyno's reading vary from chassis dyno to chassis dyno dont they? Thats why they should really only be used for a comparison. I think a GT straight from the showroom might make 300hp at rear wheels but give it 10k when it should be well and truly loosened up you might find they will make more

im off now, its been a post marathon today, i swear ive increased my post count by about 30 or so, cyas

[fpv_gtho]

Yeah, theyre truly either an on the day comparison tool, or a before and after comparison tool for like if you go to herrod for a full exhaust. stick it on before and after the installation and see the gains

[Colty]

mmmMMMMmmm Engine Dyno =D!

[fpv_gtho]

Not many people seem to use them all that much, they obviously would rather not pay the extra to get the engine removed, then installed again. Herrod claim that to fit their extractors for the BOSS, they have to remove the engine so maybe they use the engine dyno rather than the chassis dyno to tune the engines

[Colty]

Chassis dynos seem much more convienient, you can basically put the wheels on those roller thingys :P, tie the car up and way you go, which is pretty easy. Im taking a guess here but I think engine dynos are rarer and cost more, plus I think that rwkw is more important than what it makes at the flywheel wouldnt it?

[fpv_gtho]

Yeah they definately look more conveniant, you'd think that if yo were using the chassis dyno to compare what you're doing, yo could get more work done.

In the real world you could say that your rwkw and kw/kg are the 2 biggest things......you can have a 200kw engine, but if its in a 2tonne body and has only 150rwkw, its nothing all that special

[Colty]

Dont Automatics lose alot of power when transferring power along to the rear wheels, like when they use a torque converter

[fpv_gtho]

I wouldnt say they lose alot, they certainly lose more than a manual because of the torque converter. You'd probably find an AWD Auto would lose the most and a FWD Manual would lose the least