British Lelyand politics from The Worst Bestseller

[gtrjazz]

Im just going to shut up now before you offend me even more. I dunno what you have against my country but it offends me that you are pinpointing us making it seem that were a bunch of morons. You obviously havent heard of something called equality.

Steady on old chap BL failed because the upper class management felt the lower class workers would put up with inferior products like the all agro and Marina. The Japanese with their less divided class system knew better. Also the Germans would have found producing a bad car unacceptable

[Matra et Alpine]

Steady on old chap BL failed because the upper class management felt the lower class workers would put up with inferior products like the all agro and Marina. The Japanese with their less divided class system knew better. Also the Germans would have found producing a bad car unacceptable
It had absolutely b*gg*r all to do with "class system" !!!
I think you should win an award with coming up with the largest numer of purile comments in the least number of words :)

[gtrjazz]

Why do you think the British cars of the Eighties where so poor? British Engineers and designers were hired by Japanese firms and produced some very good cars here in the UK for Japanese firms at that time. Production here of cars is very successful under Nissan Honda after years of blaming the workforce?

[Matra et Alpine]

Why do you think the British cars of the Eighties where so poor?
Because British Leyland had lost vast parts of their markets and had not responded with suitable products and were in the spiral of high costs, reduced revenue and no money to invest. So tried to deisng new cars on a shoestring which could be built on the lines already in existence.
The unions were powerful and would NOT accept job losses, job reclassification or reduced hours ( overtime being the favourite )
So it took the company to the brink of bankruptycy before the changes could happen.
Smart new management saw the advantage of working with Honda ( as did Hoinda ) and the K-series engine was born. Sadly ti was too late to save the image of the BL brands and Rover would never again be a major manufacturer.
NONE of that has to do with "class" :)

British Engineers and designers were hired by Japanese firms and produced some very good cars here in the UK for Japanese firms at that time. Production here of cars is very successful under Nissan Honda after years of blaming the workforce?
Different workforce, different attitudes.

[gtrjazz]

Yes but why did they lose the market in the first place . If you look back at the products they where trying to sell. Poorly marketed unreliable old technology it was never going to happen. It does not matter how well or not the work force performed you cannot sell a Lemon .And yes I blame the University culture over experience in the work place attitudes of our country. And no doubt the back handers off old school chums with parts firm etc also helped bring the British Motor industry to its knees

[Matra et Alpine]

Yes but why did they lose the market in the first place . If you look back at the products they where trying to sell. Poorly marketed unreliable old technology it was never going to happen. It does not matter how well or not the work force performed you cannot sell a Lemon .And yes I blame the University culture over experience in the work place attitudes of our country. And no doubt the back handers off old school chums with parts firm etc also helped bring the British Motor industry to its knees
You don't understand employer/employee/union relationships in Britain in the 60s and 70s at all.

Why did it become unreliable ?
"University" culture in the workplace didn't take effect until the 80s !!
Perhaps if you gave some background to your opinion it might help elucidate the argument.
The one thing the British car industry DIDN'T have were back-handers :( It woudl probably have survived better if it had - eg Fiat, Renault etc etc

[gtrjazz]

When The Ryder report, became public on the 23rd April 1975, it had appeared in record time - almost rushed to the point of recklessness and it pulled no punches.
LACK OF INVESTMENT AND BAD DIRECTORS :(
In brief, the report made the following recommendations:
· Donald Stokes should resign as Company Chairman
· The “grotty” factory machinery should be replaced and as a matter of highest urgency.
· A cohesive model strategy needed to be devised, cutting out the immense overlap in the company’s range.
· The company build a new test and development centre in order to facilitate more efficient development of new cars.
· Industrial relation problems should be eradicated.
OLD PALS ACT WHEN FAILER MENT THE LOSS OF JOBS FOR THOUSANDS :mad:
Against Ryder’s recommendations that Donald Stokes should resign, Harold Wilson stated that he was his personal friend and that his sacking (for events that were not entirely of his own doing) would hurt the man terribly - it was highly unfair that he was being made the scapegoat for the sins of his predecessors. The Prime Minister thought that Stokes would be far better employed as some kind of travelling export promoter for the company - an acknowledgement of the fact that Donald Stokes was undoubtedly a super-salesman and an audacious negotiator. Because of the direct involvement of the Prime Minister, Donald Stokes was made the Non-Executive Chairman of the Company - effectively a figurehead, just as Wilson had envisaged.

BACK HANDERS AND CORUPTION :eek:
A new face at the head of Jaguar in 1973, he may have been, but when he suggested that his ambition for Jaguar was to massively expand production following the onset of the 1973 energy crisis, his judgment was soon called into question. Also, rumours of financial “irregularities” at Innocenti and Jaguar soon reached the ears of John Barber and an internal investigation was launched to delve into these allegations. To cut a long story short, there was enough doubt surrounding Robinson’s practices that he was asked by Barber to resign from his plum job, which he subsequently did, citing the appointment of Derek Whittaker as the Chief Executive of Leyland Cars in favour of himself.

[Matra et Alpine]

When The Ryder report
Thanks gtr, you confirmed what I said ....


· The “grotty” factory machinery should be replaced and as a matter of highest urgency.
· A cohesive model strategy needed to be devised, cutting out the immense overlap in the company’s range.

Because British Leyland had lost vast parts of their markets and had not responded with suitable products and were in the spiral of high costs, reduced revenue and no money to invest. So tried to deisng new cars on a shoestring which could be built on the lines already in existence.

Did you READ who was involved, come on :)


Harold Wilson stated that he was his personal friend and that his sacking (for events that were not entirely of his own doing) would hurt the man terribly - it was highly unfair that he was being made the scapegoat for the sins of his predecessors.
Well not strictly a back-handr. Just typical political pressure every PM and President has applied in every nation :)
and ...

Also, rumours of financial “irregularities” at Innocenti and Jaguar soon reached the ears of John Barber and an internal investigation was launched to delve into these allegations. To cut a long story short, there was enough doubt surrounding Robinson’s practices
2 things ... before we rewrite history, remember that nothing was PROVED at Jaguar. And it is common for public officials to fall on their swords for corpoerate failure - shame it isn't enforced on CEOs of private companies by shareholdres as often as it should :(
Anyway, COME ON, it was the 70s and an Italian firm was involved.
Of course their woudl be back-handers in that relationship.
It was the way of doing business then !!

Not quite the "class system" BS was it !!!

[gtrjazz]

I guess the point I was trying to make was traditionally the work force at BL are blamed for strikes making them fail 50% true but the upper Management got them the other Half way to oblivion.

[Matra et Alpine]

I guess the point I was trying to make was traditionally the work force at BL are blamed for strikes making them fail 50% true but the upper Management got them the other Half way to oblivion.
agreed - incompetent management ( the government !! )