holdens styling going down the drain

[hanz blix]

what is happening to holden. the vz practicly looks the same as the vy and it has that stupid chrome thing on the side like an aston martin. and now bonnet scoops on the new monaro. what is happening are they running out of ideas or some thing, and this is coming from a holden man.

p.s. can anyone tell me how to make a poll on a new thread

[Blue Supra]

k, to make a poll.
when you type in whatver when you make a new thread, scroll down and theres the "do you want to make a poll" option, tick and fill in the blanks.

as for holdens styling im up in the air.
Im sure Slick_Holden will have somthing to say though.

[GTR Dreamer]

yea, i havent seen any of those cars new styling, but i agree with blue supra, slick holden will have something to say

[fpv_gtho]

the chrome flutes on the SS and bonnet scoops on the Monaro are a coupe f attempts to muscle up the cars image, more than likely an American influence, especially since the 2005 Pontiac GTO will have the vents, they were the ones who wanted them originally. i havent really got any issues with the difference between VY and VZ styling wise, bodywise theres little differences here and there, but i prefer the VY as the little things like the wheels and bumpers look better. realistically its about the same as what was done to the VX styling wise...

[SlickHolden]

I would say it's heaps less of a change VY to VZ then VT to VX in looks.
It's more the V6 and 5 speed auto and 6M and some new saftey features that are the biggest changes.
But holden isn't going to put all there eggs in the VZ basket when the VE basket is only 16 months away.:)

[fpv_gtho]

it would be touch and go, VZ doesnt have new tailights like VX, but the SS and Monaro recieved a fair amount of visual upgrades. your right though on the VZ's lifespan, because of it being 1.5 years, theres unlikey to be a series 2 upgrade

[SlickHolden]

They might do a BA and just toss things in here and there without going into the next series just keep the sales ticking over:)

And i'm still wondering what hsv is up to they are taking there time, When BA and VY were in books they had new cars on there website, It's gets you thinking they have something up there sleves there :cool:

[fpv_gtho]

yeah, most people know that the Clubby will be 300kw, but its unknown if it'll share the LS2 with the corvette and GTO, or have an even further upgraded LS1.

i wouldnt be surprised though if in 10-12 months when a series 2 upgrade would normally come, they play the special edition card strongly

[holdens]

yeah hsv can be quite the sly fox's they dont muck around though (i dont think)
but im interested to see what the new holdens will look like in the v8 supercars?
speaking of v8 supercars GO BRIGHTY!!!

[Blue Supra]

Thats a good point, but there wasnt anything performance wise done to the GEN3 was there? why would the racing teams bother to upgrade and go through all that hassle just for an almost the same looking car after all the race gears in/on it?

[fpv_gtho]

the v8 supercar teams quite often start fresh with a new car, it was quite a surprise actually when this year SBR simply rebuilt #4 and #9 and put the fresh new liveries on.

[Blue Supra]

i still wanna see a magna V8 supercar:D

[fpv_gtho]

theyve had RWD V8 magna's racing in some categories before, ive seen one in drive.com.au livery

[holdens]

yeah i would like to see a magna v8 supercar but i dont think i want it to be in the category coz v8's are a typically australian category with the better part of autralian cars ( i say that coz neither of them are fully australian).
although mitsiubishi have a plant in adelaide.. so i guess that works in there favour a bit. either way i'd rather v8s to stay as they are

[fpv_gtho]

i tell you what, i'd rather mitsubishi get in before toyota. not only does it at least seem mitsubishi are more actively involved in the local industry, but it would hark back to the original days of ford vs holden vs chrysler

[Blue Supra]

Toyota would enter an Avalon wouldnt they. Both the avalon and Magna are front wheel drive, ive seen a magna with a custom made 6.2L V8 and rear wheel drive conversion. with suicide doors :D but would they need to change to the FR layout instead of FF to be allowed to compete?

[fpv_gtho]

yeah, for V8 Supercars, FR is a must with over 600hp. it'd probably be a nascar derived chrysler v8 hooked up to the holinger box and ford 9 inch CWP diff.

[Blue Supra]

its limited to 5L too isnt it? can they put ford parts into other makes?

[fpv_gtho]

yeah your right, 5L is the limit which is compared to like 5.9L in NASCAR, but that should be easily changed. They use the ford diff's though as theyre strong, reliable and not too expensive

[Blue Supra]

n00b question. you cant like unbore an enigne can you? like a 1.8L bored out to a 2.2L cant be returned to 1.8L can it? then how could they get a 5.9L back to 5L?

[fpv_gtho]

i think for the bore, what they can do is put a cast iron sleeve on the inside of the piston. many engines that are alluminium alloy already feature cast iron sleeves for strength. to get the engine down .9L though, they'd more than likely give it a shorter stroke to make the engine last longer with a 7500rpm rev limit

[Blue Supra]

Thats a damn high revving V8! conrod straight, 300 kph, roaring engine 6th gear OMIGAWSH id die a happy happy man if i could do that!

[fpv_gtho]

well the engines definately dont sound that healthy, but according to motorsportnerd i think it was, the old VN Group A's used to rev past 8000rpm before they installed the TEGA control ECU with the rev limiter

[Blue Supra]

Group A engine was supposed to be capable of nearly 400kph with the right gear ratios and settings i read somewhere. think it was street commodores when they did a review on group As.

[fpv_gtho]

i dont know if 400km/h would be capable, the EB V8 Supercar only had about 375kw/500hp and i wouldnt expect there to have been that much of a difference engine wise

[Blue Supra]

nearly... nearly 400kph.
I read it some time ago. it could have well said 300kph but im pretty sure it was 400...
oh well:rolleyes:

[fpv_gtho]

well either way, conrod's almost running out of room as it is for the car's to do 300km/h, but perhaps you read it before the chase was added?

[holdens]

yeah true i didnt no toyota was tryin to get in?
it will take a long time for mitsubishi to be competitive coz they need a good 5 years in the series to have good teams good drivers and all that stuff i recon so they would have to hang in there for a bit

[Blue Supra]

this was a theoretical thing, it was never actually tested.

[fpv_gtho]

well yeah, it'd have to be gearing or something to get it to 400km/h.....the downforce to keep it on the road at 400m/h would make it too slow under that, and without it, no one would take it to 400km/h

[SlickHolden]

well the engines definately dont sound that healthy, but according to motorsportnerd i think it was, the old VN Group A's used to rev past 8000rpm before they installed the TEGA control ECU with the rev limiter
Yep my brother told me storys about this how the engines would hit 8000rpm and above,

But talking about sounds my brother was saying the best sounding V8 supercars on the track were, Ambrose of cource he said, steven richards he said nothing sounded the same as larry perkins cars. The kiwi guys, 888, He said the FPR cars really sounded sick, This was at winton he showed me some of the fotage he took.

[Karrmann]

yes holden is kinda getting Mazda, even tough I like Mazda's styling. but yeah, Holden should start being themselves and stop trying to be someone else.

[SlickHolden]

I don't see a conection ??

[Karrmann]

accually, I meant that they were getting really Mazda, just look at your holden out of your house, doesn't it look like a mazda 6 or 3?

[SlickHolden]

But the same could be said the other way around ???:)

[Karrmann]

could be that too.

[SlickHolden]

Naah just playin with ya :D
yeah they are close but holden really was going down this way for some time, with the concept cross 8. And way back in 2000 they were starting up a new car i seen some pics it was to be the VY series. this is the cross 8 concept which is built now
http://www.holden.com.au//images/concept_cars/cross_x8/img_ModelHeroBottom.jpg

[Karrmann]

yeah, if that car in the pic didn't have a Holden badge, i would think it was a Mazda

[SlickHolden]

But look across GM cars they want this type of grill now, They want them to fit in more have some familiar look to them around the world grill lights bonnet lines things like that:)

[Karrmann]

oh can't wait to see that :rolleyes: cant they just leave Holden be and accually come up with their own designs? :mad:

[SlickHolden]

GM needs to have the finger in or they wont be happy:( As holden as got bigger in GM they have wanted to go deeper in holden, But holden have got this far by themselves just hope GM don't try to get to control freak like with holden :)

[Karrmann]

it is probily because now that people aren't buying their tons of SUVS they are really losing money so they are doing anything they can to get money, even it it means to copy holden :(

[SlickHolden]

Rumours are the holden crewman might make its way over and cross 8 if they can get the LHD problems fixed :D

[Karrmann]

cool :)

[SlickHolden]

But they might not be big enough they only take up 1 and a half parks almost lol:D

[Karrmann]

yeah, don't want it vandelised by angra GM employees :D :D :D

[Blue Supra]

pffft the crewman in the states would still look small next to a F250 or something similar...

[fpv_gtho]

the crewman would need bigger rear seats i think for the US market :p.

too many people would compare it to the chev, dodge and ford duallies..

[Blue Supra]

I dont fit in the rear seats thats for sure, but then again, i am abnormally tall.

[fpv_gtho]

my dad used to have a 1990 chev duallie and its only problem was the lack of rear kneeroom, mostly because my dad had the seat so far back. the crewman from reports has an awkward backrest and lack of kneeroom.

[Blue Supra]

i dont fit, plain and simple, even with the drivers seat all the way forward...

[fpv_gtho]

well i guess that shows their use as a trade vehicle. i fit fine in the middle of a 3 seater AU one tonner though

[Blue Supra]

heheh, youre not 6"6 are you?
i fitted in a XD bench seater...

[fpv_gtho]

nah im a piddly 5"9 :p

i think holden have something planned for the crewman though, i wulnt be surprised if rear seat comfort is losing them some sales

[Blue Supra]

prolly, ive seen a few around all with tradesman logos on the side, so i think theyre being used as actual trades vehicles...

[fpv_gtho]

yeah ive seen a couple as well, there was a member here who's dad must've had one as they ran a bob jane t marts or something

[Blue Supra]

I like the SS model, V8 manual, although the Auto box can handle twice as much weight if the car has to tow.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah i think its rated at like 2500kg, so with 5 people, the tub filled up and 2500kg being pulled out back, the car would be doing overtime

[SlickHolden]

I fit in the back of a crewman fine:D
My brother just got his ticket into big construction. All the boss cars are avalanches and they are crap, Not the car the whay they have been treated scratches dints a mess:(

[Blue Supra]

yeah i think its rated at like 2500kg, so with 5 people, the tub filled up and 2500kg being pulled out back, the car would be doing overtime

Thats why theyre V8s;)

[fpv_gtho]

I fit in the back of a crewman fine:D
My brother just got his ticket into big construction. All the boss cars are avalanches and they are crap, Not the car the whay they have been treated scratches dints a mess:(


thats too bad. even though i dont like the car, its a waste

[Blue Supra]

Its not high enough to be a real 4WD anyways..:(

[SlickHolden]

My brothers friend bought a crewman, And he drove my brother around when they went to do a cource to get there tickets, My brother said this bloke wasnt 100% happy with it.

[fpv_gtho]

i'd be interested to know if theres like a 7 day or maybe even 30 day period where you can return the car. or just offer more extensive test drives, i think for the Territory, Ford allow you to test drive it overnight

[SlickHolden]

Its not high enough to be a real 4WD anyways..:(
But there is a difference its AWD if it was 4WD then i would agree. But many crewman style utes arn't that big most are smaller, My auntie owns a nissan navara 4x2 it's hardly a big ute :confused:
To fit you in the back we would have to stick you long ways feet out the windows :D lol And me just stick me in the back i'll roll around there from side to side :D
I fine it to be off the ground a little :)

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but you know AWD and 4WD are the same, its the marketing thats different :p

[SlickHolden]

But a 4WD can go 2WD, Not many AWD look the same it's good to market them differnt cause they are used differnt:) to 4WD They also have differn't features :)

[fpv_gtho]

what your describing is a part time 4wd setup, theres full time 4wd setups on the market

[SlickHolden]

But they come setup differnt and they can do differnt jobs, I wouldnt take a AWD 4 Wheel Driving if i wanted to be the layland brothers lol:D

[fpv_gtho]

there ar different setups, but theyre not what seperates AWD to 4WD. a lancruiser is said to be 4WD and a WRX is said to be AWD, but they both drive all 4 wheels. the territory with it electronically controlled AWD system is described as a smart system, with only the dimensions of the body holding it back

[SlickHolden]

I read a story about territory and adventra, They didn't like that they were so electronically controlled in the AWD system.

[Blue Supra]

My dads old mitsu starwagon was a part time 4wd, he always had it in 2wd but it had the little stick to change 2WD HIGH 4WD LOW 4WD HIGH...

[fpv_gtho]

I read a story about territory and adventra, They didn't like that they were so electronically controlled in the AWD system.


theres some people that wont trust 3 open diff's with a stability control system over 3 LSD's, but i managed to catch part of the carshow review on the territory in the outback and they seemed to think as far as wheel/power control, the system was very smart

[Falcon500]

theres some people that wont trust 3 open diff's with a stability control system over 3 LSD's, but i managed to catch part of the carshow review on the territory in the outback and they seemed to think as far as wheel/power control, the system was very smart
They said it preformed flawlessly but its low fareing let it down....also they had a RTV ute as the support vehical and that preformed great too...

[fpv_gtho]

Due to the RTV's 215mm ride height compared to 178mm on the Territory, it outperformed it on many areas. The reckoned that maybe even only an inch extra ride height for the territory could do it wonders, possibly even beat the kluger offroad. the only area it seems to shine outright over the adventra and kluger is on sand driving, where the stability control is setup better to keep the car moving

[Falcon500]

Due to the RTV's 215mm ride height compared to 178mm on the Territory, it outperformed it on many areas. The reckoned that maybe even only an inch extra ride height for the territory could do it wonders, possibly even beat the kluger offroad. the only area it seems to shine outright over the adventra and kluger is on sand driving, where the stability control is setup better to keep the car moving
Well as it stands it goodfor flat sand driveing but you hit a dune or small sand hill and yourgoing to take hal fit with you in the territory...but that said for has filled the soft roader segemnt well offering a much cheaper and more practical (for something not likely to see off road) solution then toyotas prado...which is really a good off road vehical and as tests prove a cut above the other carsin the comaprison for off roading.....

I honestly cant wait to see a turbo versionof the Territory and a adventra dukeing it out with ross Dunkerton in the aussie car class of rally....itll be fun to see (also rember that the previous winner of the class was an EL xr8 so these awd vehicalsshould do well enough)

[fpv_gtho]

well it could be the Territory's mid life update tha we see the turbo motor get shoehorned in there from the reports coming out recently. what a hit to he guts thats turning out to be, 2 years of no V8 territory, but there'll be a turbo territory, just for these reports to come out suggesting theye only just started doing the development on it.

maybe with a few extra mm track and a few less in ride height the Territory could be an absolute weapon in the right class...

[Falcon500]

Well there has been a GT v8 powerd territory that pretty low to the ground doing its paces on the show scene....but its a show car....

So it can fit :rolleyes: wethers it works with the car is another thing....

And also i doubt for would make a territory that could potentally stick to the road better then a falcon....if that does happen or is quoted as an idea expect something radical to happen to the falcon platform imho.

[fpv_gtho]

i think thats the car CAPA organised your talking about: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6705

as i said in the thread, it feels like a longe chair and drives like an XR8, and thats only the RWD model so theyre dong pretty good as far as sticking to the road goes. A turbo AWD would definately do better, a RWD turbo might even. its shorter AND wider than a falcon remember...

last i heard though is the next all new falcon would still have the basic bits of the BA rear end, so they could do the opposite of what was done with the XD (take the XC floorplan and redo the front suspension) and give it a world class front suspension to go with the control blade IRS

[motorsportnerd]

Group A engine was supposed to be capable of nearly 400kph with the right gear ratios and settings i read somewhere. think it was street commodores when they did a review on group As.

A highly theoritical 400km/h. The road-going Commodore VN Group A (introduced in 1990) was the first Holden to have the 6-speed manual gearbox. This gearbox was put in the car purely to homologate a 6-speed transmission for racing under the older Group A rules. The road car's 6th gear was extremely tall - the gearing suggested a highly theoritical 400km/h. Of course you'd need a veeery long downhill stretch and several hours runup to ever reach that speed...
The top speed of the VN Group A road car was around 230km/h - achieved in 5th. The car actually achieved a lower top speed in 6th - around 200km/h.

The race car on the other hand was timed at 298km/h - on the high speed bowl at Holden's Lang Lang proving ground - not on Conrod Straight.
In 1991, Motor magazine joined the HRT at You Yang's where they tested the top speed of the VN racecar - hoping to prove it's greater aerodynamic efficiency over the older VL Walkinshaw racecar. With Bathurst gearing the car was geared for a theoritical 320km/h. With Win Percy (1990 Bathust winner) at the wheel, the VN Group A reached 298km/h - not quite breaking the 300km/h mark.
Later that year at Bathurst, the VNs were reaching just on 290km/h by the time they reached the breaking point for Caltex Chase. From memory, that was about 15km/h up on the VL Walkinshaw racecars in 1990, so I guess there was some aerodynimic improvements.
Just to give you an idea of what the VN racecar looked like, I was able to find one picture in a 2 minute search on google - but its of the Peter Brock Mobil VN Commodore, not the Win Percy HRT car.

[fpv_gtho]

I thought You Yangs was Ford's proving ground and Holdens was Lang Lang

[motorsportnerd]

I thought You Yangs was Ford's proving ground and Holdens was Lang Lang

Ok, fair cop. I always get those two mixed up. I'll be editing the post...

[fpv_gtho]

yeah your not the only one. if i cant get them the right way around, i usually forget the name of holdens

[SlickHolden]

Thats funny you yangs and lang lang :D
Any herd of the chang changs ??:D

[SlickHolden]

My dads old mitsu starwagon was a part time 4wd, he always had it in 2wd but it had the little stick to change 2WD HIGH 4WD LOW 4WD HIGH...
My brother got a brand new 97 VT commodore hired it, Name withheld:D you will see why.
He took it to motor bike track and took it over the jumps now think how big they are it was a 4WD that day, Lucky he is in fixing cars broke the rear bumper bar and replaced that, He said it did it fine over the jumps :eek:
Then later that week in the same car mark skaife passed him doing 130kp/h using the road like a race track, In some HSV Black, He said it was hotted up:)

[crisis]

yeah i would like to see a magna v8 supercar but i dont think i want it to be in the category coz v8's are a typically australian category with the better part of autralian cars ( i say that coz neither of them are fully australian).
although mitsiubishi have a plant in adelaide.. so i guess that works in there favour a bit. either way i'd rather v8s to stay as they are
I think MrBishi will be more worried about selling the poxy looking things. The Adelaide plant is shutting down for a week to try to clear excess stock . They are butt ugly and nobody wants them. Althought the Australian Federal govenrment also shuns buying them for their fleet which doesnt help. All the same the new one better be a vast improvement BA style or their will be some prime land for developement down off Main South Road.

[Blue Supra]

My brother got a brand new 97 VT commodore hired it, Name withheld:D you will see why.
He took it to motor bike track and took it over the jumps now think how big they are it was a 4WD that day, Lucky he is in fixing cars broke the rear bumper bar and replaced that, He said it did it fine over the jumps :eek:
Then later that week in the same car mark skaife passed him doing 130kp/h using the road like a race track, In some HSV Black, He said it was hotted up:)

ROFL, like jackass where he goes hire car destruction derby:D

[fpv_gtho]

that brother of his must get up to some crazy s*** :p

[SlickHolden]

That's not the only thing he has done ;)
We not to long ago were driving around the streets side ways, With a trailer on :eek: He does these things to show me they can be done :eek: i say ohhh do them wiht me on the side of the street Bro :D

[Blue Supra]

That's not the only thing he has done ;)
We not to long ago were driving around the streets side ways, With a trailer on :eek: He does these things to show me they can be done :eek: i say ohhh do them wiht me on the side of the street Bro :D

You're soft!;):D
more fun when your in the car, better view from out of it though:)

[SlickHolden]

You're soft!;):D
more fun when your in the car, better view from out of it though:)
I am a little lol :D
He is a very good driver i think he should have gone racing he controls are car very good:)

[fpv_gtho]

he must be one of those people they say have a natural ability then, or hes just had to get himself out of alot of shit before :p

[Blue Supra]

experience is the best way to learn, iv always said that. as soon as i can control my car a certain way i try and learn another way then another way so no matter what i can control it. siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiideways rules:) (strictly under controlled circumstances ie not busy roads)

[fpv_gtho]

thats the way to do it i suppose. the old dirt roads are some fun though to learn on, and you dont ruin your tyres trying anything :p

[Blue Supra]

i just go out when its been raining, my tyres are pretty slick and if i wanted i could kick it in the dry but thatd own my car, there no effort involved when the roads wet so its the best time to practice, pity it hardly rains anymore:( dirt roads are good too but my dirt road that i went to has just been sealed so thats no good nemore...:(

[fpv_gtho]

i havent really got many dirt roads left around where i live, ut about half an hour away all the secondary roads around this main road heading up to windsor has plenty of them and theres also this big dirt patch where people go dirt biking in as well

[Blue Supra]

lol, i just used the big expanse of dirt/grass in front of college:D to flick it around, everyone loved it and when you were watchin other people (even a old blue volvo:D) go nuts kickin it around on a patch of grass you just smile:) its great... i miss those days...

[charged]

yeah i would like to see a magna v8 supercar but i dont think i want it to be in the category coz v8's are a typically australian category with the better part of autralian cars ( i say that coz neither of them are fully australian).
although mitsiubishi have a plant in adelaide.. so i guess that works in there favour a bit. either way i'd rather v8s to stay as they areGet theToyo,Mitsi involved would open up a whole new demographic for V8 Supercars,the added bonus is it would increase the average IQ of the veiwing audience by 300% :D ;)

[Sharpie]

I'm with charged. At all V8 events there should be signs that say "Don't feed the monkeys" because they are all a bunch of knuckle draggers. :p

[crisis]

Get theToyo,Mitsi involved would open up a whole new demographic for V8 Supercars,the added bonus is it would increase the average IQ of the veiwing audience by 300% :D ;)
Yeh, what the series needs is a bunch of pre adolescent PS2 drivers wanking off over Evo (insert number) and 9000kw Supras with "stage III" kits who think that the cars they read about in tuning mags are the same as the ones you buy from the showroom.

[Blue Supra]

Youre a very bitter man crisis, you make me laugh:D
Thats not what hes talking about anyway, mitsubishi and toyota would have to enter a 5L FR car, probably the magna and avalon modified to FR would be their choice. Evos and supras obviously dont fit the schema of V8 supercars. but i know what you mean by


Yeh, what the series needs is a bunch of pre adolescent PS2 drivers wanking off over Evo (insert number) and 9000kw Supras with "stage III" kits who think that the cars they read about in tuning mags are the same as the ones you buy from the showroom.

LOL!:D

[crisis]

Youre a very bitter man crisis, you make me laugh:D
Thats not what hes talking about anyway, mitsubishi and toyota would have to enter a 5L FR car, probably the magna and avalon modified to FR would be their choice. Evos and supras obviously dont fit the schema of V8 supercars. but i know what you mean by



LOL!:D
I would live to see Toyota and Mitsubishi and anyone else enter the fray. Someone from Mitsubishi would have to steal the technology to build a rear wheel drive car of course. The Lexus V8 would be a sweet motor but the formular is so contrived that I doubt any other manufacturer would have the neccessary body, engine etc that would fit. Theonly reason Ford and Holden shape up so well is because they are essentially identical designs. Japs dont make big sedans, many V8s or much rwd. Beside Jim Richards doesnt want to have to call everyone an arsehole again.

[fpv_gtho]

i think if they entered cars needing a conversion from front wheel drive to rear wheel drive, they may as well take the next step and allow EVERYONE to have a completely unique chassis, built to certain restrictions of course, that let them sit around a tonne weight, something it seems the car based chassis's cant match. although it would go against all of AVESCO's cost cutting measures planned and sent the cost of a single car from $300K-$400k up closer to the million mark

[Colty]

Yeh, what the series needs is a bunch of pre adolescent PS2 drivers wanking off over Evo (insert number) and 9000kw Supras with "stage III" kits who think that the cars they read about in tuning mags are the same as the ones you buy from the showroom.

ROFL GO the sarcasm, but its pretty true though. ;)

[Blue Supra]

a million bucks a car!!! are you serious! how do the smaller teams manage to stay in it then? i know theres better things to spend a million dollars on.

[Colty]

The cost of the category is way too expensive, infact, motoracing in a whole is way too expensive for what it is.

[fpv_gtho]

Well thats why theres such a vast array of categories....if you cant afford much, theres things like the many PROCAR events as well as the Aussie Racing Cars and the Historic Touring Cars...move up and youve got Formula Ford, Formula Holden and Carrera Cup and ARC, then the top of the list here is the V8 Supercars of course, but youve got to realise that at least 30 of the V8 Supercar's belong to teams who dont have too many problems paying the bills.

[Colty]

yeh sure but the classes in my opinion are overpriced, like years ago prices for everything were decent but now ull find most of these classes have many people with lots and lots of money yet they cant drive.

[fpv_gtho]

Thats the unfortunate thing, someone'll invest in a driving franchise before they invest in their ability....just a couple of months ago, Larry Perkins sent Paul Dumbrell over to the UK for a driving course after the embarrasment of such things as the carnage caused at Adelaide...

[Colty]

there you go =D~

[SlickHolden]

he must be one of those people they say have a natural ability then, or hes just had to get himself out of alot of shit before :p
No comment :p But that was in the early young dumb days more with motorbikes :eek: they scare me bikes:D

[SlickHolden]

Get theToyo,Mitsi involved would open up a whole new demographic for V8 Supercars,the added bonus is it would increase the average IQ of the veiwing audience by 300% :D ;)
Anyone for some FRIED RICE :p

[Colty]

Id like to see a 620HP Naturally Aspirated Toyota or Mitsubishi, would be weird consdering they all seem to all have turbochargers.

[fpv_gtho]

it would be different :p but not impossible of course. i dont know if mitsubish could rely on Chryslers NASCAR program anymore after DC pulled their shares. toyota of course have their F1 engine development, but that has little revelance for 7500rpm V8's now doesnt it

[Falcon500]

it would be different :p but not impossible of course. i dont know if mitsubish could rely on Chryslers NASCAR program anymore after DC pulled their shares. toyota of course have their F1 engine development, but that has little revelance for 7500rpm V8's now doesnt it
Yes but what about their v8s constructors truckseries of nascar(whatever its called) with a bit of reacerch and development (and of course DE-strokeing) itll be a vaery avid wepon for a v8 super....all they need then wouldbe a decent rwd car that qualifies....But mitsu on theother hand would have to develop a whole new engine...unless they borrow the hemi....and then coupled with makeing a rwd car....

[fpv_gtho]

The engine would be more of a problem than RWD for both Toyota and Mitsubishi, if you take Toyota's involvement in the ARC for example and how they changed a Corolla to AWD.

[Falcon500]

The engine would be more of a problem than RWD for both Toyota and Mitsubishi, if you take Toyota's involvement in the ARC for example and how they changed a Corolla to AWD.
Oh no thats a prtotype racer....they have rules that allow them to do things like that...but avesco says the car must be rwd and have 4 doors and of course a v8....theyd need a road going car like that then :p i whish chrysler would hurry up and read our thread about a new valient :rolleyes:

[fpv_gtho]

I think AVESCO were willing to provide "unique" rules for Mitsubishi when they wanted (or could afford) to enter so that they could get in whilst still selling V6 FWD Magna's, but still have a competitive field

[Colty]

Is it true that the V8's are like losing crowds, as in they dont have as much people coming to watch as they used too.

[fpv_gtho]

i think towards the end of 2002 they were losing the crowds, mainly ford fans getting sick of Skaifes domination, but after the first couple of rounds in 2003 they all came back in the masses

[Colty]

But say 5-10 years ago?

[fpv_gtho]

well at the end of 1992 for Group A, people were going away from the dominance of the Skylines (and previously Sierra's) but the V8 formula brought back alot of the crowds, although alot of people were unhappy of the relevance of the new formula

[Colty]

Is there any place to find figures?

[fpv_gtho]

Im not sure, maybe there'd be somewhere to find attendance figures for Bathurst

[SlickHolden]

Wounder how the V8's would go now againts Godzilla and Sierra's. :)

[fpv_gtho]

Well the GTR still holds the overall finish record at about 6hrs 15 minutes, it'd be getting touch and go, but i think the Sierra's wouldnt stand much of a chance anymore

[Colty]

The Sierra wouldve been a much quicker car if it was allowed to have bigger wheels, my dad was telling me that some of those Sierras made up to 750hp and they only weighed like a tonne too!, now thats a power to weight ratio. My dad says the sierra is the quickest and best car his ever driven + they used to wheelspin everywhere

[fpv_gtho]

that sounds not far off the truth...i think in 750hp spec though, they had no chance of surviving 1000km around bathurst. you've probably heard the story about how the Texaco Sierra's were disqualified in 1987 i think it was, when Bathurst was on the International Group A calender

[Colty]

that sounds not far off the truth...

LOL it is the truth


i think in 750hp spec though, they had no chance of surviving 1000km around bathurst
Yeh i fink so but i think the ones that raced the Bathurst 1000 had about 650hp, ill check!

[fpv_gtho]

Its amazing though to think that back in the late 80's, VL commodores were still keeping up with the Sierra's, perhaps they had reliability issues

[Colty]

Sierras had really small wheels, like I think it was 15inch wheels or less

[fpv_gtho]

Yeah, they were only 15x7's, the same size that they wanted to put on the Phase 4

[Colty]

Yeh the old GT's had very small wheels also too.

[fpv_gtho]

they had piddly 14x6's i think, but that was pretty normal, any cars that had discs only had rotors about 260mm

[Colty]

Can you imagine a VZ commodore or BA Falcon with 14x6's :eek:

[fpv_gtho]

Well VZ's still only come with 15x7's standard.....I think since AU2, Fords had 16x7's...but the biggest disadvantage woud easily be in the brakes...Ford claims that the smallest wheel they can put on their standard brakes is a 16" rim and likewise with the XR/17" and GT-P/18" packages

[Colty]

Well VZ's still only come with 15x7's standard

AHHH i thought they were bigger then that :o

And I heard on I think it was xr6turbforums that the GT and GT-P are getting 19inch wheels for Mk2

[fpv_gtho]

Yeah thats one of the big rumours, the GT-P should at least come with them standard. Theres a rumoured change from the brembo's as well to something like the AP Racing calipers on the GTS, the brembo's are $1000 for a pad change.

[Colty]

Are the GTS brakes bigger, because I read somewhere the GT-P went from 100-0 in like 32m where the GTS went from 100-0 in like 35. It was ages ago when I read it tho

[fpv_gtho]

Its got brakes the size of V8 Supercars.....362mm front rotors, 343mm rear rotors (cross drilled and ventilated), 6 piston AP Racing front calipers, 4 piston AP Racing rear calipers.

Thats compared to the GT-P's 355mm front rotors, 330mm rear rotors (cross drilled and ventilated), 4 piston Brembo front calipers, 4 piston Brembo rear calipers.

Then of course you could put the DJR HP320 into the fray, with 365mm front rotors and 343mm rear rotors (grooved and ventilated) with 6 piston Alcon calipers at the front and 4 piston Alcon calipers at the back

[Colty]

What size does the Clubsport have?

[SlickHolden]

Clubsport - Anti Lock Braking System (ABS)
- Performance Braking System: 330 x 32mm ventilated and grooved front discs,
- HSV embossed front callipers in HRT red,
315 x 18mm ventilated and grooved rear discs

Clubsport R8 - 343 x 32 mm ventilated and cross drilled front discs
- 315 x 18mm ventilated and cross drilled rear discs
- Four piston HSV embossed front and rear callipers in HRT red

[fpv_gtho]

There doesnt look to be much difference there...What calipers does the Clubby have?

[Blue Supra]

those are some hardcore brakes... my datto has like drum brakes on the back:D

[fpv_gtho]

Some people are just never satisfied with the brakes they can get....apparently you can get 400mm/6 piston kits for skylines...

[Colty]

Isnt 400mm going a bit overboard, theyd have to stick out like a sore thumb on the road?

[fpv_gtho]

Have you heard what some people do to skylines in Japan? You see 900kw Godzillas just going around on the street! Peter Holinger specially makes 6 speed transmissions for Skylines to handle that much power and torque (as well as being a JGTC supplier)....With that much power, you need all the stopping power you can get. Plus, alot of people arent afraid to stick 19-20" rims on a Skyline, so why not have brakes to fill the gap?

[Colty]

how do they get insurrance or even road register them :eek:

[fpv_gtho]

Who's saying they do?? Im not trying to be cynical or anything, but all the illegal street racing, all the "ricing" of cars, and now all the drifting events, it all comes out of Japan. Considering how much the costs to run a car balloon once its 3 years old, i wouldnt be surprised if these 900kw Godzilla's with 400mm monster brakes are all just locked up in peoples garage's...

[Colty]

whoa then imagine if one of these cars got stolen or destroyed in an EARTHQUAKE! lol ;)

[fpv_gtho]

I wouldnt be surprised if theres something similar going on regarding the earthquakes and cars getting destroyed like what happened at 9/11.....X amount of cars were reported damaged etc, then a couple of months later, the VIN for those cars were showing up around the world s stolen cars....

[Colty]

oo a connection :o

[iservegemballa]

Holden never had any styling to begin with. Their designs are pretty random and they have no brand style.

[fpv_gtho]

thats a bit of a lame statement.......so what, theyre not like the big german 3 (BMW, MB and Audi) and keep going on and on and on and on with the same styling themes....well im glad, otherwise i'd have gotten bored with the FJ

[danno]

Holden never had any styling to begin with. Their designs are pretty random and they have no brand style.

you never had any style to begin with, you are pretty random, you have no style, and quite frankly, your opinion doesnt count. this is what i think of you.

holden dont design a whole pile of cars, the commodore series is about the only design they do (apart from show cars) and you cant say the commodore doesnt have brand identity through the range.

[SlickHolden]

Here Here !!

[Blue Supra]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

PWNED!
seriously though Holden gets the astra and the vectra from europe im pretty sure the barinas from there as well, whats left for them to design? get your facts straight.

[fpv_gtho]

yep Barina, Astra, Zafira and Vectra are all Opel's. The Rodeo's an Isuzu so yeah, nothin really left is there

[SlickHolden]

Ford And Holden have there own market here, And it's large RWD Cars they have the $$$ to do them, They don't sell cars around the world like Toyota, And have the $$$$ to do what they want when they want, They have limits, And yet still build the best RWD cars in thw world.

Hey i can bring all models in from VS-VZ if you want :D:D

[Colty]

Mr Iservegemballa, YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND! :p

I wouldnt say the designs are random as commodores have looked fairly similiar since VT

[fpv_gtho]

thats a given though, since the VT theyve been built from the basic same design though

[Blue Supra]

Well theyre all based on the same chassis, like VN-VP look same VR - VS look same etc

[fpv_gtho]

well VN-VS is all the same, VB-VL is all the same, HJ-HZ is all the same.....cant remember the exact models before then :p

[Blue Supra]

i thought VN - VS was same but wasnt sure... thanks mate:)

[fpv_gtho]

yeah they had a pretty big update for the VR.....people will probably look back and think theres no way the BA was built off the AU, but they shair the same doors..

[Blue Supra]

serious??? i didnt know that... which reminds me i did look at an XR6T more closely recently and there is a black intercooler hidden in there, im wondering whether it would look better silver??

[iservegemballa]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

PWNED!
seriously though Holden gets the astra and the vectra from europe im pretty sure the barinas from there as well, whats left for them to design? get your facts straight.
1. Shutup
2. Holden design all the commodore variants.
3. Apart from the AU even Ford have a specific style and the XRs have the quad headlights.

[fpv_gtho]

1. Shutup
2. Holden design all the commodore variants.
3. Apart from the AU even Ford have a specific style and the XRs have the quad headlights.

umm....

1. I dont care
2. Blue Supra doesnt care
3. SlickHolden doesnt care
4. NOBODY CARES

did you really expect a warm reception to our comments?

[Blue Supra]

i actually LOLd when i read this...
Holden continually update theyre style to keep it modern and appealing, if they didnt their cars would still look like the VB or VK commies...

think about it...

[fpv_gtho]

yeeess.....thats certainly stating the obvious

[iservegemballa]

i actually LOLd when i read this...
Holden continually update theyre style to keep it modern and appealing, if they didnt their cars would still look like the VB or VK commies...

think about it...
Plenty of other brands are able to keep their cars looking new while keeping their brand identity.

[Blue Supra]

i dont know about you but iv always been able to tell a holden when i see regardless of its age... similar lines and styles are always present from as far back as the VB even now in the VZ

look harder >.<

[fpv_gtho]

Plenty of other brands are able to keep their cars looking new while keeping their brand identity.


so now Holden, a rather small and insignificant manufacturer on the big global scale of things, with only 1 platform in which theyve made their local range on, should have a brand image?

[fpv_gtho]

i dont know about you but iv always been able to tell a holden when i see regardless of its age... similar lines and styles are always present from as far back as the VB even now in the VZ

look harder >.<


exactly right...aussie car brands dont need an image, aussie cars by themself have an image that is simply recognisable.

[danno]

Plenty of other brands are able to keep their cars looking new while keeping their brand identity.

i dont see gemballa designing a lot of cars. they certainly dont have a brand image, cause its all bodykits slapped on porsches.

i have always been able to tell a commodore from anything else. they do have their own brand identity. you dont need something to stay the same on all the cars to have that, like BMW with the kidney grille.

[Blue Supra]

^^^ thanks guys, thats what im tryin to say:)

[anubis8221]

2. Holden design all the commodore variants.


What variants. The Ute, the Adventura, the Crewman and Cross 8, Monaro. They all have the same theme.

[Blue Supra]

all based on the commodore chassis cept the crewman coz of its longer wheelbase i think is more similar to the statesman. i think:confused:

[fpv_gtho]

yeah the crewmans a mix of statesman and one tonner

[SlickHolden]

umm....

1. I dont care
2. Blue Supra doesnt care
3. SlickHolden doesnt care
4. NOBODY CARES

did you really expect a warm reception to our comments?
http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/html/emoticons/beerchug.gif http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/html/emoticons/nutkick.gif
That hit the spot lol:D

[SlickHolden]

Something to wet your wissle.

[fpv_gtho]

nothing like a good ol collage :p

[Esperante]

I guess I'm the only one who likes the old styling less than the new styling. Heh....

[SlickHolden]

I couldn't find older caprice models and couldn't be botherd looking had a head ache:D
But them caprice still have a similar theme about them, The Commodore has gone away from it's W grill but that's what GM want's from it's family now:(

[crisis]

Holden never had any styling to begin with. Their designs are pretty random and they have no brand style.
I presume your statment is supposed to mean Holden doesnt have a style you like. They cleary have a style. Their designs are anyhting but random. No manufacturer does that, not even Koreans. Holden may not have a brand styel but that is no different form any mass market car. Marque definition is largely based in the prestige area.

[Colty]

hes a stooge nvm him :)