Are classic car people nuts ?

[charged]

Have been wondering why people build up classic,vintage cars as per spec they came out the factory,eg drum brakes ,carbies,leaf springs etc,I pose a question for debate .My wife and I like the look of old houses eg Californian Bungalow etc circa 1910-1940 but if we were going to build the house would we have gas lighting,no climate control,ducted vaccum,microwave,dishwasher I think you understand the concept,but for some reason when they(the nuts) build up classic cars they build them with old school technology,I cant figure those crazies out :confused:

[drakkie]

Well, my uncle restores cars for a living...I can fully understand why he does that, simply because is a great thing to do

[charged]

Well, my uncle restores cars for a living...I can fully understand why he does that, simply because is a great thing to do
he may love it but your signature virtually sums up what Im saying about creating yesteryear and losing tommorrow

[Matra et Alpine]

Where to start :)

If you think it is a test of a drivers skill to have ABS, TC, Auto-box et al then fine. Some of us LIKE the more enjoyable experience of controlling the MACHINE not controlling the computers controlling the machine :)

When something breaks do you liek repairing it yourself ? Do you liek improving performance through your OWN skills in engineering and building ? Canot do ANY of that with a car less than 10 years old. We're not talkign buying expensive bits off of a shelf from some guy in Japan !!!

Now is where I do agree.... If your idea of a car is for it to look original and look as it came off the factory and keep it polished and cosseted in an air-con building then THAT is "classic stupidity" AFAIC

I've been at shows where I drove the car and was parked beside a Lotus Cortina which had NO OIL in the engine in case it dripped or leaked. I've heard of guys aith rallied A110s being told their car wasn't good enough for a show because the TOOLS HAD BEEN USED !!

So just to check, what kind of classic car owner do you mean ??

CD playesr in ALL my cars :)

Also, own a 100+ year old stone built property. Do *I* want a wooden-framed, modern 'box' to live in - hell no !!!! Stone - gods air-conditioning

[McReis]

I like classic enjoyable cars. If the damned old brakes don't give me the confidence to exploite the cars potential and there's a most safe an recent alternative, I go for it!

I guess the looks in the car are the only ones to always leave untouched. But if safety and power can add fun, then we should do it. To hell with "councours condition".

I have a friend of mine who made an Escort RS MKI virtually from scrap.
He made it with high performance material for racing Escort, like suspension, brakes, etc.. And when it came to the engine, he thought that original engine wasn't good enough and a BDA engine would be too expensive and unreliable. So here's what he has done: he took an Escort Cosworth block, fitted some high performance pistons and cilinders and other moving pieces, and now owns this beautiful 210 bhp semi-classic Escort that gives loads of fun to him and to whoever has seen it since.

Would you classic freaks, mind having this classic? Or is it just to impure?

http://onfinite.com/libraries/64902/139.jpg
http://onfinite.com/libraries/64903/b01.jpg

[Matra et Alpine]

NICE pics :)


To hell with "councours condition".
for sure !!
let the manufacturer keep ONE example off the production line for everyoen to come look at and leave it at that :)

Would you classic freaks, mind having this classic? Or is it just to impure?
Watch out Mustang will be round to nick it :)
Hmmm, R5 T2 sitting next to it ???? :)
Does your freind compete with the Escort ?
Is classic/historic racing and rallying big in Portugal ??
--- and any action pics ????? :)

On performance, as we compete in classic rallying the only rules you have to adhere to when 'upgrading' is you can only use items available in the period.
But as racing had already experimented with most of the technologies around today then it's possible to do LOTS, jsut as your friend has with the Mexico.

[byronleehk]

Crazy car lovers come in all shapes and forms.

There are people crazy about classic cars, hand cleans each and every part of the vehicle and leaving nothing untouched...even parts under the chassis with a tooth pick and cotton balls (I saw it myself) where nobody's going to see:confused:

Then there are people who's crazy about modern technologies in cars. Had to have the latest gismo in their cars the first day they become available. Have a friend who drives a van so that he can install (and upgrade...whatever you want to call it) the latest sound system in it. He's got a good job with good pay but owns nothing, because aside from the daily necessities of life, all his money goes into this moving "sound theatre" :rolleyes:

I think as long as they enjoy what they do, it's cool! :)

[Matra et Alpine]

Crazy car lovers come in all shapes and forms.
....
I think as long as they enjoy what they do, it's cool! :)
It's the pretentiousness of some of the 'concourse' guys nad the judges.

Like the original cars NEVER were anywhere near as good as a concourse-restored-to-factory-condition. So what IS being compared ??

The "tool used = bad" nonsense :)

Seen guys PAINTING SOOT in the inside of the exhaust pipe to make it "look real" - woudlnt' reunning the engien be even MORE real :)

But MOST OF ALL, it's that there are SUPERB cars NOT being used as they were intended. It's like going to watch a bear or tiger in a 6x6 cage. Just sitting there or slowly pacing up and down instead of out hunting prey. Just like a car !! Let Escort Mexicos loose on the loose stuff, let Ferrari 250GTOs dice on the race track :)

Nothing I enjoy better than 'baiting' the concourse guys at the classic shows. The Scottish one starts this weekend. We'll have the rally MGB on a stand AND about 6 kit cars ALL DRIVEN to the event. If I get punched I'll let you know :)

[McReis]

Hmmm, R5 T2 sitting next to it ????
Does your freind compete with the Escort ?
Is classic/historic racing and rallying big in Portugal ??
--- and any action pics ?????

That's a T2 with maxi bodykit and an engine factory kit upgrading it up to 250 bhp. It's for sale, by the way...

The Escort is road legal and only competed once at an hillclimb as "0" car. He was invited by the race director, and finished 8 overall!!!

Classic racing is still growing here, but has some excellent cars running, from Porsches RSR, Lola T70's, Chevron's B21, Lotus 26R, 300 bhp MKI BDA's, and a Daytona.

Classic rallying is a bit poor. Escort rules, a few Opel 1904SR's, lots of Minis, Dolomites and so on...

I´ll bring to you some action pics stored somewhere...! :)

[McReis]

That's a T2 with Maxi bodykit and factory engine kit upgrading it to 250bhp. It's for sale actually.

The escort doesn´t race. It was built for pure fun!

This thread reminds me of that real episode of the Japanese magnat that bought a 250 GTO and fitted it into his living room and rebuilt the wall after it. The car never went out until it was sold again. What's the point of it? Denying the use to someone else?

[Mustang]

http://onfinite.com/libraries/64902/139.jpg
http://onfinite.com/libraries/64903/b01.jpg

ARRRRR the mk1

http://www.bankersonline.com/postcard/pictures/wow.jpg

classics car great cars and no i dont think that people who like classics are nuts

[taz_rocks_miami]

The name says it all "classic" cars, if you install say 4 wheel disk breaks on a 1970 Chevelle SS 454, you'll have much better breaking power yes, but you've altered the original design so the classic is gone and modernized it a bit.

Besides, some classic car owners buy them as investments, not cars, so they keep them 100% original to boost it's resale value. I hate to see that myself, a car is not a car unless you drive it!! Sad maybe, but financially, not crazy.

[Matra et Alpine]

Besides, some classic car owners buy them as investments, not cars, so they keep them 100% original to boost it's resale value. I hate to see that myself, a car is not a car unless you drive it!! Sad maybe, but financially, not crazy.
Very few cars actually achieve this.
The days in the 90s when the "classic car investment" was thought to be a cert are long gonw. I know someone who paid 30K for an E-type and nother 40K on restoration in the hope of having a 120K car. Sadly they bubble burts and last I heard he still had it and couldnt' face the fact his best offer was for 35k !!!
Interestingly though, competition cars with competition history and RAC license are commanding HUGE prices in the UK as rich-folks (!) go classic rallying with them :)

[angusxplus]

What I don't get is why people like to take an old mustang or somthing and shove in a huge chevy engine or somthing like that.

[taz_rocks_miami]

What I don't get is why people like to take an old mustang or somthing and shove in a huge chevy engine or somthing like that.

To increase performance and to personalize it a little more. That's the whole idea behind "hot rods". Hot rodders are different from clasic car owner who buy them as investments, hot rodders build their cars to drive and enjoy them, not to store them as museum peices.

Welcome to UCP BTW!!

[charged]

Where to start :)

If you think it is a test of a drivers skill to have ABS, TC, Auto-box et al then fine. Some of us LIKE the more enjoyable experience of controlling the MACHINE not controlling the computers controlling the machine :)

When something breaks do you liek repairing it yourself ? Do you liek improving performance through your OWN skills in engineering and building ? Canot do ANY of that with a car less than 10 years old. We're not talkign buying expensive bits off of a shelf from some guy in Japan !!!

Now is where I do agree.... If your idea of a car is for it to look original and look as it came off the factory and keep it polished and cosseted in an air-con building then THAT is "classic stupidity" AFAIC

I've been at shows where I drove the car and was parked beside a Lotus Cortina which had NO OIL in the engine in case it dripped or leaked. I've heard of guys aith rallied A110s being told their car wasn't good enough for a show because the TOOLS HAD BEEN USED !!

So just to check, what kind of classic car owner do you mean ??

CD playesr in ALL my cars :)

Also, own a 100+ year old stone built property. Do *I* want a wooden-framed, modern 'box' to live in - hell no !!!! Stone - gods air-conditioningMatey I was a diesel mechanic for 5 years ,rebuilt countless petrol engines,car bike you name it,now I tool round with club cars actually just got back from the dyno,we dont buy bits from Japan all though they make the toughest bits in the world,dont be scared of technology embrace it and learn,also about the stone house no aircond come over to Australia plonk yourself in a house in the middle of Australia in summer you would last about 3 days.Diffrent courses (climates)for different horses :D Nephew car has made extra 30 kw @ back wheels tonight mabybe more clutch was slipping
6 finger style 1 ton cp maybe fluid on clutch ,RMS or input shaft seal pulling the box out tomorrow Matey Im not a person who reads about cars in magazines and think I know it all I actually play around with them,got the extra 30 kw from careful,spark,fuel tuning not expensive bits from Japan

[Matra et Alpine]

Matey I was a diesel mechanic for 5 years ,rebuilt countless petrol engines,car bike you name it,now I tool round with club cars actually just got back from the dyno,we dont buy bits from Japan all though they make the toughest bits in the world,dont be scared of technology embrace it and learn,
Don't know that my post deserved the attitude response as I was just asking your background and trying to pass on ( thourgh the air con analogy ) that sometimes in some situations older is still fine :)

also about the stone house no aircond come over to Australia plonk yourself in a house in the middle of Australia in summer you would last about 3 days.Diffrent courses (climates)for different horses :D
Well to be pedantic abotu it, go to Singapore or Indai and go in an old colonial STONE property and see how it CAN work out fine. Remember I said stone, not a corrugated iron dunny :)
But as I was trying to sugest, it's horses for courses and we agree.
Just not sure we've agreement over the classic car differences :)

Nephew car has made extra 30 kw @ back wheels tonight mabybe more clutch was slipping
6 finger style 1 ton cp maybe fluid on clutch ,RMS or input shaft seal pulling the box out tomorrow Matey Im not a person who reads about cars in magazines and think I know it all I actually play around with them,got the extra 30 kw from careful,spark,fuel tuning not expensive bits from Japan
I never said you were, I described to alternatives and did ask where you were coming from.
For some reason the point of the comment on the Japanes off the shelf parts was lost. So how many alternative ECUs can you get ? Spend thousadns and you can get a full computerised but then you need sophistciated modelling to create maps etc. It's much easier to alter needsles in twin webers and cam lobe shapes. Any corner engineering firm can do it and do it cheap. That was the poitn I tried to make about the off the shelf. If you can create your own computersed ECU for any engine, I retract the premise that it's difficult and expensive.
Some of the most competitive and enjoyable AND GROWING competition in Eureop just now is classic racing and rallying BECUASE the drivers prefer it. That was all I was trying to poitn out.

[NAZCA C2]

Classic cars are great. Sure their performance by todays standards is not very good but a lot of old cars have character which is lacking in todays cars.

[charged]

Don't know that my post deserved the attitude response as I was just asking your background and trying to pass on ( thourgh the air con analogy ) that sometimes in some situations older is still fine :)

Well to be pedantic abotu it, go to Singapore or Indai and go in an old colonial STONE property and see how it CAN work out fine. Remember I said stone, not a corrugated iron dunny :)
But as I was trying to sugest, it's horses for courses and we agree.
Just not sure we've agreement over the classic car differences :)

I never said you were, I described to alternatives and did ask where you were coming from.
For some reason the point of the comment on the Japanes off the shelf parts was lost. So how many alternative ECUs can you get ? Spend thousadns and you can get a full computerised but then you need sophistciated modelling to create maps etc. It's much easier to alter needsles in twin webers and cam lobe shapes. Any corner engineering firm can do it and do it cheap. That was the poitn I tried to make about the off the shelf. If you can create your own computersed ECU for any engine, I retract the premise that it's difficult and expensive.
Some of the most competitive and enjoyable AND GROWING competition in Eureop just now is classic racing and rallying BECUASE the drivers prefer it. That was all I was trying to poitn out.The ecu we use are made in australia(Autronic),when I was in late teens,early twenties I has a Charger with a 4.3L inline 6 with big carbs,cam,head and other go-fast bits. Ran the 1/4 @high14s-low15s had great fun now were just doing it with a laptop,Nephew going out tommorrow to test,then race debut a week later to say he is nervous would be an understatement. :D
Cheers Matra

[Matra et Alpine]

The ecu we use are made in australia(Autronic),
ah, right the 'Japan' comment wasn't meant to mean ONLY Japanese components :)

On crazy classics though I have to draw the line at the guys setting up for tomorrows show. A Sierra Cosworth and they had the wheels off. One guy was polising the INSIDE of the alloys and worse the other guy was polishing the DISC !!! THAT needs some serious counselling help :)

[henk4]

There are people crazy about classic cars, hand cleans each and every part of the vehicle and leaving nothing untouched...even parts under the chassis with a tooth pick and cotton balls (I saw it myself) where nobody's going to see:confused:


The real "concours-state" diehearts will bring a mirror to put under the car and show the jury what goes on there. These cars come on trailers.

[jcp123]

I don't think so at all. "Who commands the past, conquers the future. Who conquers the future, controls the past"

I personally think it's important to keep us aware of where the cars yall have today came from. I personally don't like new cars, just because i'm old-school like that. So maybe I'm crazy.

I do believe in perhaps modernizing a car enough to make it "competitive" on today's roads as a daily driver, but I prefer cars to stay as they came from the factory because after all, that's how they were meant to be. Even a car that's bone stock would get driven by me. Cars were meant to be driven.

That said, the modifieds are fun to drive. My DD is a "Resto-Mod" '68 Mustang - front power disc brakes, 17" wheels, new suspension, etc. Someday it'll sport a ~430hp 351W, a 5-speed, bench seat, a/c and cruise.

The Cad I'm lusting after will have a bone stock appearance, the original 365ci block with the 390 crank and some other MINOR performance mods aimed at towing (I want to restore a vintage Airstrteam, too), 4-wheel discs, maybe a TH-400 tranny, a CB radio and a tuck + roll interior.

As you can see, none of this is "irreversible", which makes them the most sensible mods of all.

[RS6]

I much prefer classic cars to new cars. New cars are getting uglier and uglier. The modern car era has brought along too many nasty things like Bangle designs and crappy paddle shifts. Why should performance matter in a road car anyway? Soon we will be so limited on how fast we can drive, that performance cars will become pointless.

[Rockefella]

I don't really like classics all that much, never liked the style..... but, no, i don't think classic car people are nuts. (There are some exceptions :o )

[gtrjazz]

A bit I own a 1967 Mk 2 Jaguar which has sat in my garage for over 8 years I like just to sit in it and start the engine play with the lights etc then I shut the garage door and walk away.May finish it one day ? :rolleyes:

[jcp123]

I pretty much won't drive anything else...just as Rockefella doesnt dig the classic styles, I don't dig the new ones. To each their own.

[TIM]

Classic car people are not nuts, they just don't suppress their love. Old cars are about AMORE! You can always tell when you look into the face of a classic car person. (That's what makes them appear different from common people.) I just say AMORE! Live your love, don' suppress it!!!! That's what it's all about and the Italians feel like that with any beautiful car, especially their Bertone or Giugiaro prototypes. They honour cars just the way they honour beautiful girls. But girls are No. 1, of course.

Without love, no car design, no cars, no classic cars.

[henk4]

Classic car people are not nuts, they just don't suppress their love. Old cars are about AMORE! You can always tell when you look into the face of a classic car person. (That's what makes them appear different from common people.) I just say AMORE! Live your love, don' suppress it!!!! That's what it's all about and the Italians feel like that with any beautiful car, especially their Bertone or Giugiaro prototypes. They honour cars just the way they honour beautiful girls. But girls are No. 1, of course.

Without love, no car design, no cars, no classic cars.

That's fine, you may love your car, but the point is what are you going to do with it? Drive it or polish it. IMHO nuts are those who only polish it, and take it to events on a trailer in stead of its own wheels.

[PerfAdv]

That's fine, you may love your car, but the point is what are you going to do with it? Drive it or polish it. IMHO nuts are those who only polish it, and take it to events on a trailer in stead of its own wheels.
Competition of most any kind can get out of hand. The concours type judging where blades of grass and pebbles are removed from tire treads is ridiculous. Also remember reading in a thread, that smoke is painted into the exhaust pipe as the engine has never run. Engines don't even have oil. To me this is a traveling museum, if not a traveling circus!!

This type of competitive extreme is also seen in cooking contests and Olympic gymnastics' (judging). It blinds the competitors, making extremism and fanaticism the rule.

[RS6]

I don't think classic car people are nuts but I shall tell you a group of people I think are nuts (and in most cases, stupid) : RICERS! :mad:

[islero]

How can you hate classics? They offer a thrill different from other cars. Its not driving fast or enjoying gadjets that matter, but the simple thrill of driving an old car with a history. It sounds stupid, but there you go.

[TIM]

That's fine, you may love your car, but the point is what are you going to do with it? Drive it or polish it. IMHO nuts are those who only polish it, and take it to events on a trailer in stead of its own wheels.

I used to have a classic car. I drove it. My car used to have a certain patina although I cleaned everything up as well as possible. - But you are probably referring to the Pebble Beach type of people. Could you please tell me what IMHO means (I mean what the letters stand for?) English is just my second language. Oh, I found something in the net:

Acronym Definition @Amazon.com
IMHO In My Humble Opinion
IMHO In My Hesitating Opinion
IMHO In My Highest Opinion
IMHO In My Holy Opinion
IMHO In My Honest Opinion

So that's your holy opinion?

Well, I really don't mind when some cars are in a factory-built state. It's nice for picture taking or getting an idea of how they looked like when they were new.
But I do have a problem with restaurations where cars turn out to be better than they were when they left the factory say in the thirties.

Do you actually know what happens with those cars shown at Pebble Beach when they are, say, 5 or 10 years old?
Is there a chance that they will be used for some driving then? Do you have any idea?

[henk4]

I used to have a classic car. I drove it. My car used to have a certain patina although I cleaned everything up as well as possible. - But you are probably referring to the Pebble Beach type of people. Could you please tell me what IMHO means (I mean what the letters stand for?) English is just my second language.
Well, I really don't mind when some cars are in a factory-built state. It's nice for picture taking or getting an idea of how they looked like when they were new.
But I do have a problem with restaurations where cars turn out to be better than they were when they left the factory say in the thirties.

Do you actually know what happens with those cars shown at Pebble Beach when they are, say, 5 or 10 years old?
Is there a chance that they will be used for some driving then? Do you have any idea?

IMHO: In my humble opinion
IIRC: If I remember correctly.
The Pebble Beach cars do have on outing, UCP (Rob) was there along the road when passed and took several pictures. I think they also have to drive under their own power to the rostrum to be shown. May be after that they are due for major overhaul ( :) ). These cars are really not driven much, and I think one of most interesting developments of recent years has been the introducting of a non-restored class.

[TIM]

IMHO: In my humble opinion
IIRC: If I remember correctly.
The Pebble Beach cars do have on outing, UCP (Rob) was there along the road when passed and took several pictures. I think they also have to drive under their own power to the rostrum to be shown. May be after that they are due for major overhaul ( :) ). These cars are really not driven much, and I think one of most interesting developments of recent years has been the introducting of a non-restored class.

OK, the IMHO-"in my holy opinion" was just a joke I played on you. :D

That's really interesting what you are saying about unrestored cars. I have seen that being done at the Landesmuseum für Techik at Mannheim. If the body is still intact that's quite fine. I like this certain smell of gazoline leftovers, old leather, old oil, etc. all mixed together. They are doing the same thing with locomotives at the Technikmuseum in Berlin. I guess that's the latest trend.
You are right about Pebble Beach, I forgot. I read about somebody saying that the Coupé Napoléon drove by him and he couldn' hear the engine. It's that quiet! I've never been there myself (yet!!-my girlfriend has a press ID card - I'll just pretend to be the photographer and try to talk her into going there with me) .

[henk4]

I've never been there myself (yet!!-my girlfriend has a press ID card - I'll just pretend to be the photographer and try to talk her into going there with me) .

Did you go to Schwetzingen last year (or Dusseldorf recently)? My son has a press card and he is taking me along as a photohrapher, but he keeps on using his own pictures ony :D

[TIM]

Did you go to Schwetzingen last year (or Dusseldorf recently)? My son has a press card and he is taking me along as a photohrapher, but he keeps on using his own pictures ony :D

No, to be honest, I had a very long break now because of my thesis and after I finish it within the next couple of weeks I'll have more time.
I made a big mistake to bring Beatrice to the Mannheim Veterama. She just didn't like the improvised atmosphere there (she thought the people there were all nuts, I liked it though). I needed some parts for my car then. I couldn't even mention car shows for awhile! :(
She actually likes cars, loves some of them even, so I am lucky! :)
I have a great chance talking her into Concorso d'Eleganza since she is Italian. It's also more realistic than Pebble Beach, for financial reasons. So that will probably be the beginning of a lot of travelling, I hope!

[henk4]

No, to be honest, I had a very long break now because of my thesis and after I finish it within the next couple of weeks I'll have more time.
I made a big mistake to bring Beatrice to the Mannheim Veterama. She just didn't like the improvised atmosphere there (she thought the people there were all nuts, I liked it though). I needed some parts for my car then. I couldn't even mention car shows for awhile! :(
She actually likes cars, loves some of them even, so I am lucky! :)
I have a great chance talking her into Concorso d'Eleganza since she is Italian. It's also more realistic than Pebble Beach, for financial reasons. So that will probably be the beginning of a lot of travelling, I hope!

by the way (BTW) what car do you have? Will you go to Villa d'Este?

[TIM]

by the way (BTW) what car do you have? Will you go to Villa d'Este?
Emm, no I didn't mean I will show my car there (I didn't mean to show off, believe me!). At the moment I have a very functional Volvo station wagon because I sometimes restore old furniture and use it for transporting chairs, little tables, cupboards, etc.
In fact I have already spoken with Beatrice and we'll try our best to go there next may, I think it's in may, isn't it? We managed to go to the Biennale di Venezia to write a little article on modern Art, so we'll probably manage to get there as press people somehow.

[henk4]

Emm, no I didn't mean I will show my car there (I didn't mean to show off, believe me!). At the moment I have a very functional Volvo station wagon because I sometimes restore old furniture and use it for transporting chairs, little tables, cupboards, etc.
In fact I have already spoken with Beatrice and we'll try our best to go there next may, I think it's in may, isn't it? We managed to go to the Biennale di Venezia to write a little article on modern Art, so we'll probably manage to get there as press people somehow.


Sorry I did not in any way want to imply thst you would show your car there at Villa d'Este, I was just interested in the car you have :) Is it a 244?

[TIM]

Sorry I did not in any way want to imply thst you would show your car there at Villa d'Este, I was just interested in the car you have :) Is it a 244?

Again, that was more of a joke! I didn't expect you to believe a student owns a hispano-suiza or maybe a Rolls-Royce. I wouldn't mind having one of the two, though.

My (our) car is a 1996 V40, one of the first models. I (we) bought it used for a very nice price. The colour is this dark red metallic they had on the sales brochure. It matches the dark grey plastic parts on bumpers and the sides very well I think. I especially like the orange sidelamps :) . So, you see, it's not really only functional to me. But if I could buy that car today I would buy a 2.0 instead a 1.8 Liter engine. The car is heavier and bigger than it looks! But well, at least it's no 1.6 engine, that would really make me unhappy.

The classic car I used to have was a dark blue 1971 Mercedes 280 S/8 my granddad owned in the representative function of a mayor in a small town. I liked the chromium in contrast to the dark blue lacquer. But I didn't like the fuel consuption and the maintenance costs that would have ruined me after a few more years. My father has it now and wants to get rid of it after 5 years. I wonder why?

[henk4]

The classic car I used to have was a dark blue 1971 Mercedes 280 S/8 my granddad owned in the representative function of a mayor in a small town. I liked the chromium in contrast to the dark blue lacquer. But I didn't like the fuel consuption and the maintenance costs that would have ruined me after a few more years. My father has it now and wants to get rid of it after 5 years. I wonder why?

Keep the Strich 8 in the family, seems to be popular in Germany.

[TIM]

Keep the Strich 8 in the family, seems to be popular in Germany.

No, I actually prefer smaller cars. I had a Mini right after the /8 and I LOVED it because it goes around the corners like...you can't describe it and it takes 6 or less ltres per 100 km. When I was in the mountains near Nice I had a race with a Frenchman on those narrow mountain roads and he didn't have a single chance. He couldn' use his horse power (I think it was a Citroen) because there were no straight roads. He got pretty angry - and lost :rolleyes:
My other granddad in the US used to have a white MGB. I worked on that car with him a little. That might be my next classic. The engine is so simple - and makes such a good noise.
So you have a Citroen Xantia Break 2.0HDi/110 (I looked it up).
The Volvo V40 runs on a P.S.A. engine and I used to have a Peugeot 204 in the early 90s. These Peugeot people make pretty nice engines, I think. Everybody driving with me asks me why this Volvo engine is so quiet, and I tell them: it's from Peugeot!

[henk4]

No, I actually prefer smaller cars. I had a Mini right after the /8 and I LOVED it because it goes around the corners like...you can't describe it and it takes 6 or less ltres per 100 km. When I was in the mountains near Nice I had a race with a Frenchman on those narrow mountain roads and he didn't have a single chance. He couldn' use his horse power (I think it was a Citroen) because there were no straight roads. He got pretty angry - and lost :rolleyes:
My other granddad in the US used to have a white MGB. I worked on that car with him a little. That might be my next classic. The engine is so simple - and makes such a good noise.

you may have noted that I have first hand experience with a Mini. (It is a car that was originally sold in Germany :D )

[TIM]

you may have noted that I have first hand experience with a Mini. (It is a car that was originally sold in Germany :D )

No, I just saw your Mini picture below your user name but I didn't know you had experience with it. Is there a thread I didn't see. Well, I am new here. What do you mean (it was originally sold in Germany?) I had a 1988 (not 1986 I said in another thread) model RED HOT. Huh, you should have seen that old Italian guy in Verona. We just got (more: climed) out of the car and all of a sudden this old Italian came walking towards the car like a young man, saying Eeh, rredde hotte, e rassa calda ehh? And Beatrice sid, Si, rosso caldo (I hope it's Right) and he smiled, said, bene, bene! and walked off. It seems the Italians love that car. It's just their size. They can race along their narrow town roads so well.

Do you still have one of those fabulous ORIGINAL Minis, not the supersized one? I myself had it only one year, but it was the most fun year in my life :) .

[LFLWS6]

classic car people aren't nuts, but we may be obsolete.

[Cedric]

OK, classic car people are not nuts, they have certain reasons for driving classics. I am a classic car guy myself and after some introspection I can tell you what the motivation to drive them is: Design: classic cars possess a certain character not to be found in contemporary cars, since old cars were designed more freely, i.e. not constrained by regulations (safety, interior/exterior/engine/...) Most classics have features which unmistakingly belong to this or that car. You drive a car which stands out in the grey mass of traffic.
Classic cars have better looking engines (yes, the looks of an engine is also important). Nowadays engines abound with electronics and are ensconced underneath plastic covers.
Classic cars are often straightforward to maintain (I am not talking about Ferrari V12's or Pegaso!). You can do a lot of maintenance yourself. Parts of an old Ford say, are cheaper than their modern day counterparts.
Driving a classic without ABS, traction control etc. is more challenging, and a lot more fun too (how I love performing a humble powerslide with my old banger once in a while).
Old sports cars in particular are most rewarding to drive, they wonderfully convey the thrill of driving (a quality I often miss in modern cars). They require some physical strength from the driver, they get hot, they are loud and there is no power steering. The aircraft feeling cannot be denied.
Many old sports cars are revolutionary when it comes to design, they therefore belong to automotive history and can still thrash modern cars. E.g. 1954 Elva 1100cc 0-60mph in 9.5sec. An excellent performance for rudimentary engines, which in saloon cars would need five years to achieve that speed. So far for an Elva, and I haven't started to mention the Lotus and Coopers yet!
It is a shame though -and this is my personal opinion- that old racing cars have benefitted from tuning that wasn't available yet back in the old days. Now, they can squeeze even more power out of those engines, in that they are verging on modern car figures. Old cars should keep the modifications from before. if those cars hadn't received modern treatment, one would be even more impressed with old school tuning. Engineers were also capable of wizardry back then. But, as is always the case in racing: he who has most bobs wins. I have heard engine prices which are truly astronomical, whereas in the 50s or 60s they would have cost a fraction of their current value. If old cars keep coming closer to modern ones, what is the point in having a classic?
In addition, sports car driving (and racing in general) was a true feast for the car enthusiast. It's a pity I wans't born yet to experience it. I know older people who say classic cars are totally outdated and retarded; some of those people despise old cars, others race them. The latter are hypocrits who modify their vehicles to modern standards. What a way to share what once was the height of car design with young people. Car should be driven like they used to: period mods and original livery, and most desirable genuine drivers at heart.
Classic car people are not nuts, some are just not righteous.

[shaggy1812]

(Most) Classic car enthusiasts are not nuts. A number of you seem to be wondering why the owners of classic cars don't put some of the contemporary electronics in their cars eg. air conditioning, cd player. The reason they do this is because once one of these things are fitted, it loses some of the cars nostalgia. By modifying these parts you are straying too far into the realms of car modification, not car restoration. Note that word: Restoration. A guy that lives near me owns a classic Iso Rivolta. It is a gorgeous car and he has restored it from a complete wreck to what is now almost perfect original condintion. To add a bunch of modern computerised items would ruin the effect of the car and would probably also decrease the value cos if he tried to sell it, who would buy it? Another classic car enthusiast, most likely, and it is unlikely that he would want to own a modernised older car. If you want modifications you are better off looking at a crappy little Jap buzz box. I rest my case. Long live the classic!!!

[charged]

So the Japanese havent made aclassic car? Thats a whole new thread :)

[Matra et Alpine]

...In addition, sports car driving (and racing in general) was a true feast for the car enthusiast. It's a pity I wans't born yet to experience it.
Good post.

Dont' despair on the missing experience of classic sports car racing and rallying. If you check your local tracks I'm sure you'll find historic classes and hsitoric rallies are regular on their own and as classes in larger events.

you can't beat the mixed sounds of 60s and 70s French, Italian, British and American engines still pushing hard :)

You shoudl track soem events down and get to them before the bureaucrats decide it's anti-social !! ( There are now a few tracks in the UK have noise limits which means the A110 GrpIVs can't compete in 'standard' form :( )

[Cedric]

Classic racing events are becoming scarce. Even more, one would need a serious amount of cash to compete. As far as I know starting off on a cicruit with a standard car with no more than a helmet (like in the 50s and 60s) is not being done anymore on the continent. Even modest club races require a seriously modified car (fuel, rollcage, cut-off switches, ...). I think the days of cheap racing are over (maybe not in Britain...yet). I also pity the banning of old-style road racing, like the Mille Miglia and Targa Florio (these events have been revived, but they are nothing like the real thing, not by a long shot).

[taz_rocks_miami]

So the Japanese havent made aclassic car? Thats a whole new thread :)

I consider the Datsun 240Z and 260Z classic cars.

[Matra et Alpine]

I consider the Datsun 240Z and 260Z classic cars.
not sure of the 260, but also the Toyota 2000GT.

[jcp123]

I consider the Datsun 240Z and 260Z classic cars.

I agree with that.

About electronics and stuff, I am okay with it in moderation. Putting fuel injection on to me is revolting, but I can see maybe a cd player, cruise control, or A/C. My car, for instance, came pretty far from stock, I am putting a CD player in, and in the future there will be cruise control as well. I also plan on a/c, but since that's something that was originally offered on Mustangs anyway, that's not really a massive modernization. I'm also putting in a 5-speed stick in the future, but that's a practical consideration; I'm not quite sure why cars didn't have overdrive sooner.

What you won't find on my car is a massive sound system, fuel injection, car computers, navigation, or any other electronics. It's a mid-way course that makes a classic car a very good daily driver, even though I am also perfectly happy without air, cd, or cruise right now.

Of course, that's only something you'd want to do on a car that already came modified in many ways such as mine did.

[henk4]

not sure of the 260, but also the Toyota 2000GT.

I think the original Fairlady can also be considered as a classic, probably slightly better than the MGB. Of course the Honda S800 was one of the first marvels available in Europe.

[Lemon]

i think ne1 who doesnt apreciate a classic car is insane think of it this wayn without the old cars u wuldnt have the new!! its also somthing that will never be made again its like an endangered species so it makes it even more special!

[McReis]

I think the original Fairlady can also be considered as a classic, probably slightly better than the MGB. Of course the Honda S800 was one of the first marvels available in Europe.

There is a 260Z whithout the plexiglass over the headlamps, just like the 240. They are real classics, no doubt about it. Great sound, hard to drive. A friend of mine had two 240z. Had a great time ridding in them.

Also the first generation Celica's can be taken in account.

The S800 is a dream "bike-car" as it's powered by the CB750 engine.

I think this days the Corolla Twin Cam (AE86) can start to be seen as a classic, although a recent one.

[Falcon500]

Whats awrong with adding fuel injection? its called Retrotech and if you want a dayly driver and good fuel ecconmy it can be a good idea....ive seen a XY (like mine)falcon like mine with a late model 302 from a 94 falcon xr8 in it....good ecconmy and with minor mods it went like stink!

But still there is nothing wrong at all with old cars...my father owns three cars that are pre 1970 (a Genuine XW GT and 2 65 studebaker cruisers) and they are all great cars....i have driven both the studebakers and i loved driveing the bothof them (of course the red one had a 304 studebaker engine in it with 8 motorbike carbies on a home built manifold,avanti cam,mildhead work and a home made exaust system....its loud to say the least ;) ) the red one doesnt even have a radio...and when it has a nice sound who really cares? he also owned a datsun 1000 with a 1200cc engine with dual webbers,bit of a cam,homade exaust again (why buy one when you can make them....look at diagrams offerd by some aftermakrket mobs and model the exaust off that :) )head work and its a top little car....its gos like stink and gets 42mpg can you ague with that? also so much fortechnology in a previous form this tiny 1.2 technology maybe nice but its not the end all and be all...its nice to be able to turn a few screws or rejet the carbies to make more hp rather then spending countless hours on a laptop to makemore hp....

Not everything new is great "sometimes the old methods work just as well"....look at the showdown they had at Willowbank earlyier this year....all these blokes in their hotted up jap cars makeing huge amounts of hp and a veriable shopping catalouge used all over the car got beaten by back yard mechanics who used their seasoned appendix J race cars.....and the unltimate winner of the day a ultima kit car running no less then a (DUN DUN DUNN) chev v8....and the drift catigory was funny...they got their asses whooped by a country lad in a mostly stock VN SS lol

While it wasnt a white wash it was more then enough to prove a point....they where sitting there all high and mighty thinking their cars had it all and when more victroys that day went to guys in muscle cars (as well as other hitorics...as well as the porsche club that showed up who didnt like the high tech boys attitudes) and the ultimate victorywent to thelad in the ultimakit car (who associted with the historics because "apprently" his car was "low tech") i think this just proves the point nicely...also notice imnot being nasty about :)

[escort mexico]

of course classic car enthusiasts arent nuts. you could have this debate about any area of cars, be it classic, modern or anything. everyone has an area of motoring history that they can appreciate. i sure as hell wish i had been around in the days of works escorts and group b.... motorsport is far to controlled for me nowdays. i prefer to go to a local historic race meeting than to go to the formula one. for sure i would go to the F1, but it wouldn't have the same effect on me watching a race where the pole sitter leads for the whole race. I am all for the modern variety of cars (within reason) but i have decided after getting my new motor in my escort that it is better to listen to the motor, than my stereo, which sounds good as well.

i think that the thing that does it for me with classic cars is the unrefinedness of them. looking at all the different years that ford produced the escort, no two parts are the same, just about every production run varied in some way, so just about every part varies slightly. this could be considered annoying, (especially when looking for parts) but it it interesting as well.

[jcp123]

About the injection - i dont wanna have to maintain it. it's a huge complication to a car that really does just fine with a carb.

[McReis]

Whats awrong with adding fuel injection?

I have a friend who has a first generation 323i and turned it into a 323. What does it mean? It means that he took of the injection and bolted three double carbs.

Performance went up, and the noise....ooooh the noise is beautiful!!!
MPG were down the sink of course. But it is now a proper classic! :)

[henk4]

I have a friend who has a first generation 323i and turned it into a 323. What does it mean? It means that he took of the injection and bolted three double carbs.

Performance went up, and the noise....ooooh the noise is beautiful!!!
MPG were down the sink of course. But it is now a proper classic! :)

Waaw, that's amazing, where did he find the cylinders to put the third carb on? :)

On second thoughts: I was thinking Mazda, but you were thinking BMW?

[jcp123]

I find the response is better than with injection too, at least stock injection. I've spent more time driving carb'd cars than injected ones though, so for all I know the newer ones are getting better.

Wish I could afford the Weber carb setup for the 351W I wanna build. That would be sweetness having quad Webers sittin up there like a sno-cone.

[McReis]

Waaw, that's amazing, where did he find the cylinders to put the third carb on? :)


Sorry to be bad on you HEnk, but now it's your mistake!!! :D:D:D

First generation 323i had already 6 cylinders! Go check it out or just ask Matt. He's someone who knows BMW's very well.

[henk4]

Sorry to be bad on you HEnk, but now it's your mistake!!! :D:D:D

First generation 323i had already 6 cylinders! Go check it out or just ask Matt. He's someone who knows BMW's very well.

you quoted my unedited post :)

[McReis]

you quoted my unedited post :)

That's it! :D Sorry for being too fast. You see, I'm still 26 so I'm a bit on the fast type....:D

Yes, I meant BMW. Why would I bother talking of Mazdas 323 in a forum of a page called UltimateCarPage, anyway? :D

Tha only Mazda I care about is the MX-5 and I'm about to own one. :cool:

[henk4]

Yes, I meant BMW. Why would I bother talking of Mazdas 323 in a forum of a page called UltimateCarPage, anyway? :D


You will be surprised about the popularity of the 323F in Holland with the ricer community. It seems to be one of the coolest cars around.

[McReis]

You will be surprised about the popularity of the 323F in Holland with the ricer community. It seems to be one of the coolest cars around.


But I don't relate with ricers! You should feel that! :D

[henk4]

But I don't relate with ricers! You should feel that! :D

Yeah I know, just having to get into gear again after return from the dark central region of Kazakhstan. :D

[Wouter Melissen]

Performance went up, and the noise....ooooh the noise is beautiful!!!

Yeah from 4000 rpm on the Mini sounds like magic, good thing I went for one of the very last carb engined Minis built.

[henk4]

Yeah 4000 rpm on the Mini sounds like magic, good thing I went for one of the very last carb engined Minis built.

it is even more magical that it can reach 4000 in the first place :D

[McReis]

Yeah 4000 rpm on the Mini sounds like magic, good thing I went for one of the very last carb engined Minis built.


I recall loving a ride in an awful AX Sport, just because of the sounds those carbs made. GTI was far better, but the Sport was more on the wild side! :cool:

[McReis]

it is even more magical that it can reach 4000 in the first place :D


As long as it doesn't desintegrate, it's fine! :)

I need to make a file with the sound of my Fiat revving. :D:D:D
Ah, the old school... I was I was born those days. :)

[henk4]

I need to make a file with the sound of my Fiat revving. :D:D:D
I was I was born those days. :)

That would take me back :D , I am from those days.

[Falcon500]

I have a friend who has a first generation 323i and turned it into a 323. What does it mean? It means that he took of the injection and bolted three double carbs.

Performance went up, and the noise....ooooh the noise is beautiful!!!
MPG were down the sink of course. But it is now a proper classic! :)
I never said there wernt advantages either way :) if you read further on in my posts....I was just curious why JCP didnt want to add injection and he gave a very good reason.

I used to have a mate at school who owned a mini and he litrally handedits ass too it.....it was really luckytomake it past4000 rpm.....i rember a fullyloaded car me the driver and 3 other guys in the back (im shure they where all breating in and out at the same time lol) and with the severly/poorly maintian engine it was struggling to make it upsome of the most minor inclines :rolleyes: eventully he blew a hole in the engine (seperating the fuel pump from the block) and manged to get withing a block from his house....by that time the engine truly expired and is unlikly to ever turn again :( (poor little mini) and suprisingly he wants to get another one....i fear for my life (he was mad as a cut snake in case you havent figured it out already)

[HoldenHQ]

Well mate, you see if a car is still running after 40 years with the "Original" Parts why change them? do u believe ur brand new commodores will be still running in 40 years letalone keeping up and beating brand new sports cars like my "Original" HQ Does?