Top Aussie Muscle

[ELGT]

Just a poll to find out what you guys think is australia's top performance vehicle of 2003-2004. and why if possible. cheers!!

sorry if i forgot a car. tried to keep it simple

[fpv_gtho]

My vote went to the XR6T......sporty handling, yet soft enough to deal with day to day, cheap for the power, massive tuning ability, said to have the most technically advanced locally made and developed engine....second might go to the clubsport as it too is cheap, but probably a better track car with its harsher suspension

[danno]

i didnt read your post. i just read the title of the post, so i thought i was voting for a muscle car.

seeing as i dont think of a 6 as a muscle car, i voted for the GT :)

[shepp0]

bah calling a turbo car a muscle car is sacrilige

GTS has my vote, pricey, but its the king (well before ls2)

[SlickHolden]

That's how i voted, The GTS over the years has always been the yard stick it sets the bar and others come after it, I would have to say since VT there hasn't been a Australian built high performence car to match it. If FPV had a $95000 car to match it then it would be more then a if you want it wi e will make it car :) And also right now there are cars that are not even trying to match it, Example Clubsport - GT, Clubsport R8 - GT-P.
Nothing to go head to head with it.
Down the track we all would love to see GTHO VS GTS 320KW + head to head like the old days :D

[fpv_gtho]

Thats whats wrong with this country...people are too ignorant to recognise a car for what its worth. If its not a V8, its not a car. Thats how half the friggin population thinks.

As for the GTS. It may well be the quickest and fastest locally made sedan or sedan based coupe (i cant say car anymore otherwise Matthew Thomas will try and kill me), but HSV themselves have made it a ripoff. Who would buy a GTS anymore when they can get a Clubby which will match it 9/10 times in a straight line, unless they were part of the NSW HSV/HDT club or something that was at Eastern Creek or Oran Park every 2nd weekend. Slick, you said that since the VT, nothing has touched the GTS. Well before the VT, nothing touched the HO :p

[SlickHolden]

But you could also say the VP GTS was a very fast car straight line, And also VR with the 5.0lt-5.7lt.
Not to long ago a guy was selling his FPV GT-P He payed $89,000 for it, Selling it for $68,000 That price put's it in GTS territory almost

[fpv_gtho]

The HO was only knocked off the top spot by the 1999 GTS...a couple of cars came close, the XU1 and E49 back in the day, and a couple of Brock Commodores and the odd GTS, but it took 300kw to finally do it for sure. Now every 2nd car released by either Ford or Holden can match or bettr the HO's times.

That GT-P mustve been optioned up pretty bad or something, Mk1's standard were %69K and thats already lavished the same as a Fairmont and the only big option i can still think of would be the sunroof :confused:

[ELGT]

Sorry i should have just said performance car... man you guys are easy to stir up... ;)

I would also class a 6 that has the same power as most V8s muscle...

[fpv_gtho]

Or one that smashes a V8's torque figure

[ELGT]

damn right!!!

[fpv_gtho]

The funny thing is though, most of the powerand torque improvements between the F6 and XR6T are from the different hardware and software.....like the new intercooler, dual ram intake and independantly variable cams

[SlickHolden]

We are only talking mate no fights in here :D

Yeah the GT-P had sat nav maybe 19" rims Optioned brakes also think that's it:) ? DVD also:)

[fpv_gtho]

optioned brakes, it comes standard with brembo's.....

but HAD it got the dvd, sat nav, sunroof etc. that couldve accounted for most of it i suppose.

[Blue Supra]

i voted GTS, sorry FPV but this car has just got my dreams on it!, theres a yellow one about 5 houses down from me! always parks it out front too the bastard!

[fpv_gtho]

The question is though, would you buy one over an XR6T? its already established which one you'd take as a gift

[Blue Supra]

Id buy an XR6T simply because you're right, theyre better value and easy to mod...

[fpv_gtho]

and thats why theyre such a cult car. also why it won Motor's Muscle car contest

[Blue Supra]

how much was that stage 3 kit you love? if its under 15k itd be worth buyin a XR6T and getting that done, youd have a GTS killer then!:D

[SlickHolden]

Is it the GTS-R ?

[fpv_gtho]

definately under $15K, i think its only $8-9......alternatively you could get a 450kw kit from Nizpro for around $15 that features stronger internals

[SlickHolden]

But today i seen a 600kw Monaro SII, 10.44sec it does, Here at calder the guy is selling it for $79,000, I have seen the video and it's a bounce down the quater mile it's a 6speed it's like jumping jack flash :D but was very straight down looked easy to handle smooth even with the front wheels up 5" lol:D

[danno]

definately under $15K, i think its only $8-9......alternatively you could get a 450kw kit from Nizpro for around $15 that features stronger internals


wow! how have they managed to get 450 out of it, and strengthen everything, for 15 grand! thats very nice work i must say.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah but you get about 1/4 what you spend on mods when you spend it, so i wouldnt be surprised if all up it cost him over $100K

[ELGT]

i think the basic NIZPRO kit is like 350KW or there abouts correct me if im wrong somebody please, nice looking too cures the very crappy looking engine bay up...

[SlickHolden]

$110,000 i think all up with the car, But he also had slicks

[fpv_gtho]

i think the basic NIZPRO kit is like 350KW or there abouts correct me if im wrong somebody please, nice looking too cures the very crappy looking engine bay up...

Both APS's and Nizpro's basic kits are basically the same: piggy back chip and new injectors so i think theyre around the 300kw mark....i think the Stage 2 is around 390kw and stage 3 is 450kw....APS have a 300, 330 and 390 kit

[ELGT]

Does the APS kits get any engine bay work (covers etc)

[shepp0]

if i was going for tuneability id go for an LS1 anyway, even the boss as i hear rumours that Bossedit is coming soon.

[fpv_gtho]

The Phase3 kit has new intake plumbing whilst the Phase4 kit has a new upper intake, but nothing really like Nizpro's cam cover

[fpv_gtho]

if i was going for tuneability id go for an LS1 anyway, even the boss as i hear rumours that Bossedit is coming soon.


BOSSedit is out now...

The LS1 has capacity on its side and produces good numbers from fairly simple upgrades, but even it hasnt touched the top times coming from VL Turbo's yet, and everythings pointing towards the XR6T easily cracking it

[fpv_gtho]

wow! how have they managed to get 450 out of it, and strengthen everything, for 15 grand! thats very nice work i must say.


It sounds like a bit of hard work, but i suppose its fairly easy. Since the turbo's good for 600hp, Ford had to do heaps to ensure people hooking their laptop into the ECU couldnt wring 350kw out of it and blow part of the driveline. Most of the stuff involved in the APS and Nizpro kits arent so much dialing in more boost, but making the engine breathe better by fitting free-er intakes and exhausts

[SlickHolden]

My brother went to calder and he said the VL's are still clocking times faster then XR6T.
There are more options comming for XR6T and you would have to say VL's are on the way out but they are still fast and a wild ride :)

[FastFalcon]

XR6T is best sports car by far and the GT is the most hignly rated, it has been called the only real grand turer in aus to it gets my vote for its pure class and buity.

[fpv_gtho]

Suppose it all depends on your definition of acronyms like Super Sport and Grand Touring....the GT is a tourer no doubt about it, they were never meant to be a handful to drive in the suburbs at the expense of a pleasure at speed..

[SlickHolden]

XR6T is best sports car by far and the GT is the most hignly rated, it has been called the only real grand turer in aus to it gets my vote for its pure class and buity.
What does GT stand for ???

[fpv_gtho]

Grand Touring in English, Gran Turismo in Italian

[SlickHolden]

so being called grand turer is just the name and there for it really is the only grand turer in Australia :)

[fpv_gtho]

You wouldnt specifically say the GT is the only local Grand Tourer....the same can be said for he XR8 as its a better car to cruise around in than the XR6T, despite the turbo being faster....something like the Coupe4 could be described as a Grand Tourer as well i suppose

[SlickHolden]

I'm gunna be a pain in the pooper:eek: but What does gran tourer mean ???

[fpv_gtho]

Alright out comes the motoring dictionary:

"Grand Tourer: high performance closed car designed primarily for long distance driving. the designation was once reserved for expensive thoroughbred cars but later adopted by mass producers for sporty vesions of family sedans and coupes. correctly the name is Gran Turismo and was originally applied to sports coupes with two seats or occasionally two plus two seating. abbreviated to GT. a GTO or Gran Turismo Omologato is a GT that has been Homologated."

[Luciferous]

Hey, maybe you guys could clear up some confusion for me... am I wrong or didnt the E49 bathurst Charger hold the title of fastest Australian car until the GTS-R broke the record? You guys seem to be missing that Chrysler/Valiant were as big a force as the Holdens and Fords back in the 'day. Anyway I pick the Clubbie (preferrably R8) easily over the other ones simply cos its damn fast over the other ones and at a competitive price compared to the other (upper) rungs of Aussie performance. And they do look mean...

[SlickHolden]

AhHa Thank you:D

[fpv_gtho]

the HO's were always just that little bit faste than any Torana or Charger 30 years ago, but they woulve been a good 200kg heavier as well so in the twistier tracks, wouldnt have been able to exploit all their power like the aforementioned 2....it was the fastest 6 until the XR6T though

[SlickHolden]

With the XR6T the fast 6 might make a comeback big time it could be the sleeping giant,
Now all we need is holden to go turbo6 and both have them and ford and holden guys buy them up big and we could have a big rivalry like the V8's:D
We got the ute series we could have a turbo series :D

[Luciferous]

no i mean straight line acceleraction, thats what Wheels or Motor said, fastest aussie car for 25 years. Oh well I guess I'm just a bit smitten by the ol' Chargers. Fair enough the e49's were damn ugly, but the VG's looked awesome, and were as aussie (probably more so) than the other muscle cars doin the rounds

[fpv_gtho]

that'd be nice actually...BRutes is shaping up to be a bit of a support category to the V8 Supercars which is a good thing, now theyve just got to get GTP there as well i reckon

[fpv_gtho]

no i mean straight line acceleraction, thats what Wheels or Motor said, fastest aussie car for 25 years. Oh well I guess I'm just a bit smitten by the ol' Chargers. Fair enough the e49's were damn ugly, but the VG's looked awesome, and were as aussie (probably more so) than the other muscle cars doin the rounds


Well there was a bit of a problem with the HO's, they came with 6 different driveline combo's, the slowest but fastest of which might give 250km/h but a 0-100 time of 6.8 where the E49's done abot 6.2. Then you can get the good accelerating combo in the HO and it'll run 5.8. most HO's will do about 6.4 though i think

[Luciferous]

Gotcha...then how come the HO's never scored the official title?

[fpv_gtho]

Well i dunno really.....theyve long been thought of as the ultimate aussie muscle car, but i suppose no one really got their hands on one with the 3.7 diff and close ratio box to do the official test in. maybe it was like the Enzo where ford never let the Journo's test them

[Luciferous]

Yeah true....I dont mind the HO's (how could you not like em?) but I'm gettin annoyed with everyone talkin bout the muscle car era and leavin out poor old Valiant. I guess it shows the importance of winning a Bathurst...

[fpv_gtho]

its ironic though that out of the XU1, E49 and Phase 3, only 1 was a V8.....we all idolise V8's now or something, and its the V8 chargers, the A9X's and XB GT's that kinda get remembered more. a bit sad really that out finest hour isnt considered first

[Luciferous]

Its just clinging to the idea of a golden age that never happened. We all know that it took 30 years for the rest of the cars to catch up to the engines but noone will admit it. Besides, V8's just have a deep psychological effect on people thats hard to explain

[SlickHolden]

Could also be if they were still building cars here you just wouldn't forget them :)

[Luciferous]

Well Holden and Ford have come damn close to closing their gates at certain stages...it doesnt take a genious to work out that maybe the western car companies arent the best managed...

[fpv_gtho]

your right on that one....i think just before the VN came out, Holden were ready to close doors, and during the 90's, Detroit was just looking for an excuse to close down Broadmeadow's...shit first they gave us the Taurus, then signed off on the AU....almost succeeded

[Luciferous]

Urgh, bailed out by Toyota, that was an embarrassing moment in Holden history... and the AU.....
God I hated that thing (dont worry I hate VN/VP as well so I'm not all that biased)
I think Ford Australia must go down in history as trying to sell one of the ugliest cars ever to a mass market (proportionally) That takes a special type of determination... And Ive said it before and I'll say it again, Ford's own worst enemy always seems to be Ford itself

[fpv_gtho]

imagine all the hate mail they get for always failing to make a showstopper...last one they made was R7, how many have holden made since then? geez, theres the MS8 clubmans, SSX, the SST, 427C, Cross8, Torana

[Luciferous]

Oh yeah, the BA is a good looker, but I reckon thats all it is..good. Sure the GT's look aright, and the XR sedans are OK but the rest is determinedly safe. As Chris Bangle says, to move into a golden age, you must move outta your comfort zone. And cos' Ford got stung so bad last time it did it its not in a hurry to do it again, and thats why they cant produce a show stopper, because they dont wanna risk it

[PerfAdv]

Voted for the Monaro, only one I'm familiar with. Seems to be doing pretty well in the poll. Checked out the GTO at a local Pontiac dealer. First car from OZ I've been in, very nice. Very different in character from other makes~ maybe best described as American proportions meet German function.

[fpv_gtho]

i dont think many german manufacturers would likeyou putting it that way :p

you guys i reckon would go wild in an XR6T

[Luciferous]

I guess when you look at it, Australias got a pretty unique situation car wise. The flood of Japanese cars comin' in, the Europeans battling it out in the upper class and the home made (in spirit) heroes fighting each other.... I think its enough to keep everyone competitive. Its pretty much just a mentality thing with the big aussie sedans, noone really wanted to ditch them (or RWD THANK GOD) in favour of the smaller cheaper alternatives when the emission laws where taking their biggest toll on the market

[fpv_gtho]

well Holden almost ditched the large car format, then ended up rebuilding the commodore to the falcons size....but i suppose we never truly dropped the idea since we've all got families and we're pretty large :p

[Luciferous]

Damn straight, 6'3" and counting... But fuel's pretty expensive over here compared to like America

[fpv_gtho]

oh shit yeah, theyve got it on easy street alright

[Luciferous]

Oh well as long as they dont learn the highly advanced things we know like "putting your seatbelt on" and "body rigidity" and "build quality" and "making good cars"

[fpv_gtho]

that surprised me when i heard how many people didnt wear their seatbelts...i dont know how long it'll take for the others to take affect, american cars are fairly cheap for what they are, but theyve got fairly bad resale, like te new impala's are like only 35% after 3 years

[SlickHolden]

Yes the yanks have got buckets or barrels of it :D

[Luciferous]

Yeah they could fix their road death toll just by making seatbelts mandatory... but oz could take some pointers from the US, like the lemon law

[fpv_gtho]

yeah theres been a bit of talk bout the lemon laws lately....i guess you can never have everything good though...they got the good exhaust, speed and lemon laws. what have we got, mandatory seat belts

[Luciferous]

yeah but they have a whole lot of shit cars gettin about....and 330Ci's for about the same cost as a GTO.... America, eh.....

[fpv_gtho]

yeah i suppose thats partly cause for their market, they slash about $10K off the monaro, yet we got the high import tariff's so i'd say its all about equal...here cars like the Liberty GT are competitors to the 330i, i dont know what you'd consider for the Ci

[SlickHolden]

The monaro has things they dont, Nice intira comfy seats, Strong body, seatbelts hahahahahaha:D

[Luciferous]

room for people in the back...
hey how come Holden and Ford dont play around with the idea of using kangaroo leather in cars?

[fpv_gtho]

i think normal leather's better for some reason :p

hey slick, not to mention we're with the current trends in interior design :p

[Luciferous]

Hey the Aussie army use kangaroo leather for the boots cos it breathes better...and cmon it would be so wickedly corny....Australian cars now with Kangaroo Leather! Boomerang gearstick!

[fpv_gtho]

its probably one of the last thing we need to get patronized on though :p

[Luciferous]

Where's your Paul Hogan attitude towards things? Every Aussie knows whenever you go overseas you lie your ass off and make sure all the Aussie stereotypes stay in place

[fpv_gtho]

man i think i'd be the one trying to get rid of them all

[Luciferous]

No way theres nothin more funny then telling everyone that you have a pet kangaroo that you also ride to school and that the Sydney Harbour Bridge is infested with koalas

[fpv_gtho]

man theres a couple there ive never heard before...other than the usual "we have kangaroos jumpin down the street"

[Luciferous]

you pretty much make up stuff on the spot
example: someone i know went over to the US and got asked by someone if she had a pet kangaroo. She replied yes i do, it just had joeys
the response: What's a Joey?

[Colty]

I vote the GT because in MY opinion, its the best looking, best sounding and most fun car of all them, oh and because i have one :p

haha i remember in the US every person who knew we were australian was like "Do u know Steve Irwin?" "Where does he live?" "I Steve Irwin your neighbour" or "Do you catch crocodiles?"

[Luciferous]

I hope you said yes to all the questions

[fpv_gtho]

NO!! please say you said no :p

[SlickHolden]

My mate at the video shop has a uncle that is canadian, He has never been here before, So 2 years ago he landed here my mate picked him up at the airport and eerywhere they went his mouth was open, Till my mate ask him whats wrong, He explained you have no kangaroo's and you have building and there big, where is the outback don't you live in it ???
That shits me when they come here like that :(

[fpv_gtho]

I think Matra has the same problem with peoples perceptions of Scotland

[IWantAnAudiRS6]

Yea, everyone looks for the rolling hills, and whisky distillers, and they get some buildings and rain. The best bit of Scotland is Arran... lovley place! GO HSV GTS! That car owns...

[SlickHolden]

^^^^^^
Great avatar there :D:D

[fpv_gtho]

i cant really think of any stereotypical things for the US though..

[Luciferous]

If i ever went to the US the first stop would definately be boston. man the accent there cracks me up

[fpv_gtho]

i cant really think of a boston accent....theyve got like one for each state

[Luciferous]

The boston accent is the funiiest one ive heard, but back to the original question, i reckon theres too many american stereotypes to go into... all i can think of is that the biggest american stereotypical character at the moment is george W bush

[SlickHolden]

yeah he can't even spell his second name lol :D:D :eek:

[SlickHolden]

did anyone see the skaife driven VY supercar, VS Brocky in the A9X torana, And cameron in the VZ Commdore SS it was great to watch the old and the new,
But i was impressed with the way Mconville drove the VZ SS so i taped it and did a very ruff time, From a Standing start he did a time 02.44 - 02.45 that's fast and brocky did a 02.37 - 02.40 Skaife did a 02.15.
Are ford going to do the same i wounder cause it would be great,
What they should do is race the BA XR8 and VZ SS. :D

[fpv_gtho]

What have ford got to use? DJ's old XD Tru Blu against his sons car and a Mk2 XR8?

[SlickHolden]

That would be a start and the crowd would love it:D

[fpv_gtho]

the problem is though it would be a bit corny after Holden have already done it.....i rather what they do at the AGP anyway

[SlickHolden]

I'm still shocked at how fast the VZ SS was, Brocky couldn't catch it and skaife just got it, And the ruff lasp time for it was standing 2.44-2.46 that's good for a road car:)
Couldn't belive the speed of the VY down conrod when it past pete's A9X it blew the doors off, :D

[Blue Supra]

A9X? thats the last torana to come out wasnt it? the 5L model? im not suprised it got its doors blown off:D Good for Holden! i just looked up the specs on the new Torana... I have a new dream car!!!:D

[fpv_gtho]

Well it wasnt really surprising, but it couldve won. consider those oldies wouldve needed alot more warming up than any VZ SS or VY Supercar and being an original-never restored car, Brock would be stupid to give it 100% IMO

[SlickHolden]

You could see the arse wiggle around all over the place. But if i owned it i would have said give it to it baby just becasue it's brocky :D
And skaife on a ruff standing lap did a 2.15 - 2.16. I got the feeling they had there tyres warmed just a little casue skaife was giveing that car heaps:)

And one more thing i can't belive pete's old A9X started it's very old :D :)J/K:)

[fpv_gtho]

haha well its only a late 70's model so its not all THAT old really....but if thats the time skaife really got, i wonder if he was using thursday's practise tyres or something, cause even with a full tank they'll do a 2:11

[SlickHolden]

I can't belive that A9X is the same age as my mums VB :eek:

[Blue Supra]

well thats a quick lap for a standing start with an unknown amount of fuel and tyres... wonder what we was running with?

Old school toranas are awesome! my mates older bro when we were back in year 8 or something had a INSANE orange torana coupe, full roll cage, racing seats and harnesses, stroked/bored 5L block, it was just insane! Iv had a fondness for them ever since:)

[SlickHolden]

It was bound to come back since the Monaro did, Torana owners had a love for the cars as much as the old monaro owners did, It's to much of a popular car to forget about forever :D

[Colty]

Well there was a bit of a problem with the HO's, they came with 6 different driveline combo's, the slowest but fastest of which might give 250km/h but a 0-100 time of 6.8 where the E49's done abot 6.2. Then you can get the good accelerating combo in the HO and it'll run 5.8. most HO's will do about 6.4 though i think

There was also some HO's that come with a 2.75 diff ratio i think it is, anyway given a long enough straight, they could get up to 180mph, arguably still the worlds fastest PRODUCTION 4 door

[Colty]

did anyone see the skaife driven VY supercar, VS Brocky in the A9X torana, And cameron in the VZ Commdore SS it was great to watch the old and the new,
But i was impressed with the way Mconville drove the VZ SS so i taped it and did a very ruff time, From a Standing start he did a time 02.44 - 02.45 that's fast and brocky did a 02.37 - 02.40 Skaife did a 02.15.
Are ford going to do the same i wounder cause it would be great,
What they should do is race the BA XR8 and VZ SS. :D

a 2.45 sounds slow to me :S

[fpv_gtho]

There was also some HO's that come with a 2.75 diff ratio i think it is, anyway given a long enough straight, they could get up to 180mph, arguably still the worlds fastest PRODUCTION 4 door

The Phase4 was only planned to do 170mph and that was considered mind boggling at the time, but no way is the Phase 3 still the quickest.....the GTS gets 271 in auto and 260 in manual, but thats still nothing..Brabus have i think a twin turbo E class model that'll top out near 330km/h

[SlickHolden]

You lost me with MPH:D

[fpv_gtho]

basically 120mph=200km/h, 155mph=250km/h, 180mph=300km/h,

The formula if you want it is 1mile=1609m or 1.61km

[SlickHolden]

:o ahhh :confused:

you have a MPH car ?? :D

[fpv_gtho]

used to, my mums old XA wound out to 120mph on the speedo

[Colty]

The Phase4 was only planned to do 170mph and that was considered mind boggling at the time, but no way is the Phase 3 still the quickest.....the GTS gets 271 in auto and 260 in manual, but thats still nothing..Brabus have i think a twin turbo E class model that'll top out near 330km/h

Well i just saw on a show that said that when the GT-HO was released it was the worlds fastest production 4 door and still is 30yrs on, then i questioned it and found out that some HO's fitted with a 2.75 diff ratio had the potential to reach 180mph, but they wouldnt reach that on conrod as its not long enough

[SlickHolden]

Is this bathurst cars ? or Everyday road cars ?

[fpv_gtho]

i think anyone would be crazy to choose the wide ratio box and tall diff for a road car

[Blue Supra]

i think anyone would be crazy to choose the wide ratio box and tall diff for a road car

although im not 100% doesnt that mean long gears and fast spinning diff?

[Colty]

yeh but more work is required so u lose acceleration

[Blue Supra]

yeh iv noticed my gear ratios are odd, theyre really close through 1st and 2nd and then when you hit 3rd it revs for soooo long and 4th too, its a good thing coz my cars gutless so it at least snaps off the line ok but its just annoying having to shift so quick after the start it goes like this...

1st - 0 -40kph
2nd - 20 - 60 kph
3rd - 50 - 110kph:eek:
4th - 60 -maxed out (so far 160kph, scary shit!)

[Colty]

lol wouldnt it fall apart at 160 :p jk

[SlickHolden]

NasCars have shit gearing to make them run at high top speeds, It kills there accelaration. But they do hit high speeds :D

[fpv_gtho]

yeah the NASCAR's top 200mph, V8 Supercars only do 180mph with the 3.2 diff....i think they do that with a 4 speed manual, compared to our 6 speeds

And Bluey, the way i mean it was so it was geared for high speed, but i think with the lower 3.2 diff, it'd be spinning slower than a 3.7