Ford Or Holden???

[Matt Doe]

so wat do u guys like... VOTE...

[danno]

im not a fan of any particular company, i just like the good cars.

ATM ford has more good cars IMO.

edit: do you know how many times this has been done??

[fpv_gtho]

there was a thread made a couple of months ago with the EXACT SAME title...

[McLareN]

I dont know, but i think that Ford has more sucess and has better cars.
My vote goes to Ford, but Holden is nice none-the-less.

[Matt Doe]

i like um......... dunno

[Colty]

This thread has been made like a dozen times before, you should read back in the history to see every1's opinions, these threads can sumtimes get pretty heated><

[fpv_gtho]

its pretty biased considering all the international members seeing both brands and only recognising Ford

[carl0.LS1]

tell them its GM then? pontiac GTO perhaps?

being that i only joined and havn't seen the earlier threads i'll go with the topic.... the XY/XW GT's, and BA XR Falcons are the most visually perfect Fords in Australian motoring history. the rest of the falcons are decent, excluding the AU which i believe to be a huge mistake (excluding ofcoarse the Fairlane). then you get to holden, and cars like the H series monaro come to mind, and the F series utes... the VT/X commo. all great cars. until the release of the VY, holden held my preference. but the VY/Z is ugly, and the BA is just so beautiful.

interms of after factory releases, at the moment the FPV's light my fire more then the VY HSV's, which i think are hideous. VXII HSV's however i think are better then FPV GT's.the VXII SV300 is an absoultly amazing car.

so its a tie for me. but if i had to own a car from either manufacturor, it would most obviously be the GTHO PhaseIII. a very close second being the HK GTS.

[Sweeney921]

I'm not voting, never seen a holden in my life

[Blitz_]

ill vote ford, i absaloutely love them, anyone know how much it would cost to restore a xw/xy falcon to a reasonable state and get it looking like a gt wif all the goodies like twin exhaust pipes, shaker :confused: :o

[SlickHolden]

tell them its GM then? pontiac GTO perhaps?

being that i only joined and havn't seen the earlier threads i'll go with the topic.... the XY/XW GT's, and BA XR Falcons are the most visually perfect Fords in Australian motoring history. the rest of the falcons are decent, excluding the AU which i believe to be a huge mistake (excluding ofcoarse the Fairlane). then you get to holden, and cars like the H series monaro come to mind, and the F series utes... the VT/X commo. all great cars. until the release of the VY, holden held my preference. but the VY/Z is ugly, and the BA is just so beautiful.

interms of after factory releases, at the moment the FPV's light my fire more then the VY HSV's, which i think are hideous. VXII HSV's however i think are better then FPV GT's.the VXII SV300 is an absoultly amazing car.

so its a tie for me. but if i had to own a car from either manufacturor, it would most obviously be the GTHO PhaseIII. a very close second being the HK GTS.
NO NO NO don't go there mate, Holden has worked hard for it's own ID And should be respected for it:D

[SlickHolden]

I'm not voting, never seen a holden in my life
Have you seen a pontiac GTO 2004..... A Chev Lumina SS ???

[SlickHolden]

its pretty biased considering all the international members seeing both brands and only recognising Ford
Yes you hit the nail right on the head with that mate, Ford is a big name and holden is only a Aussie Name and NZ know them also:D

[fpv_gtho]

more people are recognising the name "holden", but its only those that actually get out to look at international cars, or take an interest in what the GTO donor car is would have a clue about what Holdens about. then as you said, only an Aussie or NZ would have a clear understanding how they line up against Ford

[Colty]

NZ should make their own cars :p

[fpv_gtho]

i think they used to....

[Colty]

Well it would be leet, lets picture it, Ford and Holden vs "New Zealand brands here"
Just like the Wallabies vs The All Blacks

[fpv_gtho]

what i meant was there used to be like Ford, Holden, Toyota and Mitsubishi plants in NZ

[Colty]

What i meant was brands, designed and made in NZ

[dovoxr8]

NO NO NO don't go there mate, Holden has worked hard for it's own ID And should be respected for it:D


Well i think many people get the wrog impresion on this.
Yes i think Holden should always remember that they ARE apart of GM.
Also Holden Shuv it in our face about how aussie they are.
When Holden (Chevrolet) first came here there car parts would fit on almost any chev car at the time!
And now they STILL do not make there own engines here.
Ford are the only car maker that have a v8 production line in Aus.
I think if you asked around many people would say Ford is more Aussie than Holden.
The trouble is if all the normal Fans found out just how yank they are they would think twice about how aussie Holden realy are.
(I think if you look in the records Ford Australia has been here longer)

[danno]

Well i think many people get the wrog impresion on this.
Yes i think Holden should always remember that they ARE apart of GM.
Also Holden Shuv it in our face about how aussie they are.
When Holden (Chevrolet) first came here there car parts would fit on almost any chev car at the time!
And now they STILL do not make there own engines here.
Ford are the only car maker that have a v8 production line in Aus.
I think if you asked around many people would say Ford is more Aussie than Holden.
The trouble is if all the normal Fans found out just how yank they are they would think twice about how aussie Holden realy are.
(I think if you look in the records Ford Australia has been here longer)

so how many parts (apart from the V8) are actually from the US?

[Falcon500]

depends on the model the driveline other then the diff is american(well gearbox is mexican)....all pannel stampings are australian as well as most structural parts and fascias where such basic things as oil filters are made in the uk....and most of the belts are spanish and the head lights are korean and alot of wireing is chinese and the paint is supplyed by PPG and the breaks are made by PBR did i miss anything?

As for ford im not totally shure (i dont work with them) but the headlights are German pannels are australian engine blocks are canadian and assembled here after a chemical bath here....but the reast are a mystery im shure the rest of its out sourced although it does have a higer australian content ive read.

[2ndclasscitizen]

um, the alloytec is built here and holden started out as Holden Body Builders, they would make Chev bodies for the drivetrains that were shipped out here

[Falcon500]

And holden didnt start building only chev they built them for ford and up to 8 other manufactuors probly some wich you have never heard of. and they pressed the steel bodys they usually built them onto the chassis...this was so the imported cars met a minimum local content!

[fpv_gtho]

The local content in a Falcon is about 80% according to Ford. That V8 production line of theirs is only an assembly line

[Falcon500]

I cant see why we dont get a plant they pull the all down and then build the to specifaction. this would put an end to that and also might make them cheaper (especially if we export them)

[fpv_gtho]

Well apparently theyve now cancelled the Hurricane 6.2L V8 project cause Ford Detroit thought a return to the big V8's was just a "fad". Personally i think theyve missed a big opportunity, whether its just a fad or not, theres a 6.1 Hemi out, a 6L LS2 and 7L LS7 out and a DOHC 6.2 would be able to match, if not better their power figures if tuned right. Apparently theres a fair amount of race spec parts in the LS7 for it to get that 500hp

[Falcon500]

An intresting aspect but there is no doubt the engine will still be produced in crate form....so thers no need for us to fret....also ford may save a packet through emissions....like them reuseing paint fumes as a grey energy source the epas happy because thier produceing the same waste but not adding to the strain on power plats...mazdas doing something similar with the friction welding on the rx8....so there may be more then meets the eye to that.....its funny people knocking decisions by companys when 9 times out of 10 there more then well ever know behind the decision....of course maybey im thinking outside the square too much....

but anyways if they misread this as a fad then thats a whole other bag but we can at least be rest assured their new engine will be built with this in mind.

[fpv_gtho]

Well the 5.4 was never the most popular for crate engines, their latest one was the 5L cammer and that only came about cause they could take the 2mm cast iron cylinder sleeves out of the 4.6 alloy block to give it the 94mm bore. The Hurricane was actually going to be a stretched block based on the 5.4, so you have to wonder if it wouldve truly remained a modular family of engines if the 5.4's getting stretched and the 4.6 isnt. If so, i guess the BOSS wouldve had to be killed off anyway cause frankly, the actual 4V heads designed for the 5.4 are pretty shit, apparently worse than the 3V heads available in a standard Falcon and the F-150's

[charged]

Well the 5.4 was never the most popular for crate engines, their latest one was the 5L cammer and that only came about cause they could take the 2mm cast iron cylinder sleeves out of the 4.6 alloy block to give it the 94mm bore. The Hurricane was actually going to be a stretched block based on the 5.4, so you have to wonder if it wouldve truly remained a modular family of engines if the 5.4's getting stretched and the 4.6 isnt. If so, i guess the BOSS wouldve had to be killed off anyway cause frankly, the actual 4V heads designed for the 5.4 are pretty shit, apparently worse than the 3V heads available in a standard Falcon and the F-150's
Whats this 5L cammer engine,is it dohc,sohc or ohv :confused:

[fpv_gtho]

Its DOHC like the 4.6 and 5.4 are, as i said before it gets its extra capacity from a 4mm bigger bore than the 4.6. Basically Ford doesnt sell it in any current vehicles, you order the engine through the Ford Racing Performance Parts Catalogue, which is a bit like a do it yourself SVT or FPV type setup

[Falcon500]

If your looking at it from a tech point of view yes....but it makes more power effectly and useing the older idea of doing it simply....but it was you who told me the new ones going to use the same tech (and hopfully more) on the new design....dont get too antsy now :)

And if you really want to know have a squiz at the ford motorsport page i had a look and i enjoyed it you reach it through www.ford.com they have news articles an a full catalouge and it was intresting to find out alot of these crates are avalible from the factory :cool:

[fpv_gtho]

Well what i had heard was the 4V heads going onto the 6.2L engine were going to be designed to be VCT capable, afterall the 3V heads in the XT are yet the XR8 and GT are still working on a fixed cam profile. That would explain why many people will tell you the 3V Barra220 feels stronger down low than the BOSS290, despite having 400nm at 1000rpm. Thats more of a result though of the U231 Cobra heads on the XR8 and GT were about a year or 2 behind in development compared to the 3V heads that debuted with the latest F150. Regardless of whether the 6.2 is on or not, you'd think that the next generatioin of MOD 4V heads WILL be VCT capable.

[Falcon500]

Well id expect it too....i wouldent mind seeing twin spark and sever over haul on the valve sizes too :)

[charged]

VCT wont have a dramatic effect on the 5.4 because of the long stroke,might make it snappier down low,but it will still run out of puff up high due to piston speed,I think fords best option to combat hsv would be a supercharged version,so it will produce mountains of punch down low and increase the kilowatts by 40 or so,dont know if they have a trans that would handle that sort of torque though

[Falcon500]

go the mustang box....it should bolt right up.....

[fpv_gtho]

Theyve got the T-56 manual now which is basically what theyve stuck on the supercharged 4.6 Mustanges stateside, but later in the year they'll also be getting the 6 speed auto that should be strong enough to hook up to the Typhoon by all rights.

The VCT whether it gives small or big gains, will still allow valve overlap up high and give respectable low end performance at least. There is no doubt though that the easiest way to fill a long stroke is forced induction though :p

[Falcon500]

And lest not forget it would be a tad easier on the hip pocket when it comes time to visit the bowser (even if again even slightly every little bit helps) and think how the brochures will look NOW WITH VCT! offering XX amont more kw and nm and saves X ammount per 100 km and it leaves the thing whats holden got 2 valves per cylender and a sigle cam (nothing wrong with it but you got to admit it doesnt sound as flash)

[charged]

Where has Blue Supra gone havent seen him much on the forums lately

[charged]

And lest not forget it would be a tad easier on the hip pocket when it comes time to visit the bowser (even if again even slightly every little bit helps) and think how the brochures will look NOW WITH VCT! offering XX amont more kw and nm and saves X ammount per 100 km and it leaves the thing whats holden got 2 valves per cylender and a sigle cam (nothing wrong with it but you got to admit it doesnt sound as flash)The performance gains will only be modest though,maybe 5%,it all comes down to outright hp or put the falcon on a major diet

[fpv_gtho]

Well in the case of the Barra182, thats using its VCT for fuel economy rather than power, the XR6T has a different program to use with the 6psi boost as does the F6 which has each cam working independantly with the 9psi. So if Ford were to factory supercharge the engine further down the track, the VCT would further help them with that as well. Its alot of small gains found all over the place that adds up in the end

[fpv_gtho]

Where has Blue Supra gone havent seen him much on the forums lately

The new school year's been keeping him busy at work and i guess his girlfriend's been keeping him busy at home

[SlickHolden]

Well i think many people get the wrog impresion on this.
Yes i think Holden should always remember that they ARE apart of GM.
Also Holden Shuv it in our face about how aussie they are.
When Holden (Chevrolet) first came here there car parts would fit on almost any chev car at the time!
And now they STILL do not make there own engines here.
Ford are the only car maker that have a v8 production line in Aus.
I think if you asked around many people would say Ford is more Aussie than Holden.
The trouble is if all the normal Fans found out just how yank they are they would think twice about how aussie Holden realy are.
(I think if you look in the records Ford Australia has been here longer)
I just love people that come on sign up to only flame, I could argue all day with you on this subject and get you on a TKO but guess what i can't be ****ed learn a bit more first:D

[Blue Supra]

The new school year's been keeping him busy at work and i guess his girlfriend's been keeping him busy at home

work is alright now, its slowed down heaps so i might be able to make more then 5 posts pd.:) feels good someone noticed me dropping off:) I think Karrmans shot past me on post count and slicks chasing me pretty quickly.

yeh at home i dont have much spare PC time anymore:( a 6.2L Falcon would be awesome, are the guys stateside insane or something? :eek:

[fpv_gtho]

:(

Im sure its not all moans, grumbles and complaining though :p

As for the yanks and the 6.2.......is that a serious question :p Either way theres a mob called Sean Hyland Motorsport that make a 6L version of the engine with the 94mm bore thats about 70kg lighter than the cast iron block and alot stronger apparently, so Ford should just use that. People have been getting them to rev to 8000rpm in the states

[Falcon500]

I only jus noticed that blueyes out done me lol more posts then me jesus wasnt that long ago and i was the 2nd biggest poster.....

They could but could these guys keep up with the manufacturing? but anyways maybey they could buy the design and intergrate them into ford motorsport and or make them a crate option?

[fpv_gtho]

its an interesting question about demand, but when you think about it FPV sell about 1500 V8's a year and Ford sell about 5-10K XR8's so there could be some delay's.

[Falcon500]

Well being in america they no doubt can pump out a good ammount biut expanding in such a way to make exports viable may be the killer here.....ford funding anyone?

[fpv_gtho]

Well FPV might be able to secure some funding their way, maybe even Prodrive if it means lighter, stronger (although probably more expensive) engine blocks

The guys that make the engines though get about 600hp out of their DOHC supercharged 4.6's anyway so they know how to make a good engine

[Manik]

FORD all the way i love the new mustang and the for GT! :)

[luvTHEspeed]

Ford all the way baby! i like how they have a selection, there mustang is amazing and they don't do a bad job with their trucks

[Sapphire]

depends on the year. i was all holden till they dumped the kingswood.
now its ford all the way.

[SlickHolden]

depends on the year. i was all holden till they dumped the kingswood.
now its ford all the way.
They found a much better replacement that is now legendary in Holden History.

In the end it's only a name that they could have used today.

[Sapphire]

Commodore body shape never inspired me, HQ was the best!

[SlickHolden]

My grandfather and father had them, I seen my fathers from pics, I was told he loved it.
But for me i like the more modern shapes as years went on.
Even though one of my all time fav cars is the VH SL/E Blue/Silver two tone cars:).

[charged]

HQ was the best!

Until you had to go round a corner:p

[SlickHolden]

Until you had to go round a corner:p
Come-on this isn't the U.S:D

[BarneyBoy]

Both are glorified cabs... :D

[Sapphire]

You just gotta know how to drive them!

[RARASV8]

i'd rather push my Commodore than drive a Falcoon:D

[Falcon500]

i'd rather push my Commodore than drive a Falcoon:D

How clever of you and jibe are welcome but racist ones arent.

[RARASV8]

How clever of you and jibe are welcome but racist ones arent.

got many more, but i wouldn't say it was racist!
true on my part but not racist:D
well what was the question?
Fraud or Holden, i like holdens and have never owned a fraud, so i answered the question truefully;)
Garry

[clutch-monkey]

they're both boats. i don't need a boat as yet.
i want a new torano though damnit :mad:

[Falcon500]

got many more, but i wouldn't say it was racist!
true on my part but not racist:D
well what was the question?
Fraud or Holden, i like holdens and have never owned a fraud, so i answered the question truefully;)
Garry

likening a car to a racist slur to a black person is.

so clutch by your reckoning you want a boat:confused: tonados just a falcon with a hi po version of the turbo lump :p

[clutch-monkey]

i meant torana :p
with fuel prices i think a smaller rwd platform could bolster sales considerably (be the 3 series to the commodore's 5 series)

[fpv_gtho]

Small RWD makes no sense unless you build your whole company around it like BMW have. 3 series size is about as small as you'd want to go but even then AWD makes alot more sense if you plan on pumping alot of power through it.

[Falcon500]

Small RWD makes no sense unless you build your whole company around it like BMW have. 3 series size is about as small as you'd want to go but even then AWD makes alot more sense if you plan on pumping alot of power through it.

Well the concept was no slouch making 280kw (claimed) but still if holden was to make it the base model will more then likly be a dull object available only iin fwd. And then theres the matter of footing the bill of making it.

In my opion its would make more sense to be investing in a model like that given the way the market is turning BUT holden seem content on putting all its eggs in one commadore (and commadore based) shaped basket and then giveing us rebadged dawoos and Opels (fine car the astra but not as good as its competators) instead.

Also another idea would be to bring in the more potent wepons they released onto europes roads mostly more powerful and awd versions of the astras we already get. Adding somthing of intrest to that range and providing a product that definly has a market (both mitsu and subaru base a majority of their market ont his) I doubt would be a bad thing. Not doing this to cars that had it available killed off both the calibra and the piazza, while the astra is an affordable small car and the only thing those 2 had in common was the latter I still think an image boost and a model with a very clear and devoted market can only net them alot of sales.

Now this idea I not only like but I think its very viable what do you guys think?

[Ferrer]

Small RWD makes no sense unless you build your whole company around it like BMW have. 3 series size is about as small as you'd want to go but even then AWD makes alot more sense if you plan on pumping alot of power through it.
Cadillac is GM's BMW (Or so they pretend). Then a small(ish) rear drive car becomes an option for other GM brands.

[SlickHolden]

I'm thinking the Torana is the perfect car for today's motorist, Even if it's only designed here and built over seas to cut cost in the whole project.
I'm have one tomorrow even if it only starred base with 3.2lt V6.
Thing is if thy had one they got to at least knock 22% off the Omega price to make the right price.

[clutch-monkey]

^ do they even need a V6? i was thinking using something along the lines of the astra enngines, presuming it will wiegh less than 1500kg and not compromise safety/space too much. maybe top engine will be the VXR engine or the DI V6

[Falcon500]

Your both assuming they have the money to do this rember they posted losses in the high millions the past couple of years.

But slicks right if the car is smaller and lighter the 3.2 ould be a better base model engine but p[ersonally I think the range topper would be the turbo 6 lump their usining in the AWD Saabs. Hell if the saab versions werent so expensive then mayby they could badge engieer them and make a torana (but that would defeat the purpose of a torana the car is neither cheap nor light) I personally think given holden fiances the torana would be the wrong car at this point in time.

[clutch-monkey]

true, but i think it's something they definately need for the future

[Sapphire]

All these motors will be pretty well useless unless we can find something else to run them on. Thats where ford and holden should be focused or else we'll all be driving toyotas in the future.

[SlickHolden]

^ do they even need a V6? i was thinking using something along the lines of the astra enngines, presuming it will wiegh less than 1500kg and not compromise safety/space too much. maybe top engine will be the VXR engine or the DI V6


Your both assuming they have the money to do this rember they posted losses in the high millions the past couple of years.

But slicks right if the car is smaller and lighter the 3.2 ould be a better base model engine but p[ersonally I think the range topper would be the turbo 6 lump their usining in the AWD Saabs. Hell if the saab versions werent so expensive then mayby they could badge engieer them and make a torana (but that would defeat the purpose of a torana the car is neither cheap nor light) I personally think given holden fiances the torana would be the wrong car at this point in time.

He might be half right about the smaller motor as base model? Leave the good engines as options or for higher spec models?.
Isn't there also a 2.8lt V6?. SRI 2.2lt 4cyl.
But i must say if they did build it i wouldn't wont anything smaller then the V6 3.2lt:D.. Got to have some grunt:).

I'd love the 3.2:D Lighter faster better fuel economy then the bigger 6's there must be something in that:)

[fpv_gtho]

Cadillac is GM's BMW (Or so they pretend). Then a small(ish) rear drive car becomes an option for other GM brands.

Its not a given though that what GM uses for Cadillac, they'll be able to use for Pontiac and Holden. Otherwise Commodore wouldve been shifted onto the Sigma platform used by the CTS instead of a new platform being developed.

Theres alot of rumours suggesting Holden will begin developing a new medium sized RWD platform in the near future, but it wont be for Torana. They'll shift Commodore onto it as Zeta is too big for them.

[Ferrer]

Its not a given though that what GM uses for Cadillac, they'll be able to use for Pontiac and Holden. Otherwise Commodore wouldve been shifted onto the Alpha platform used by the CTS instead of a new platform being developed.

Theres alot of rumours suggesting Holden will begin developing a new medium sized RWD platform in the near future, but it wont be for Torana. They'll shift Commodore onto it as Zeta is too big for them.
That is true. I guess that it also depends if the Opel/Vauxhall Vectra will eventually switch to rear drive. If they do, maybe then a Toarana would be possible. I doubt this will happen, though. Another option would be a new Opel Omega to go together with a downsized Commodore, altough that's unlikely too.

[fpv_gtho]

I cant see Vectra moving to RWD. Trying to shift existing FWD cars back to RWD like Impala has been hurting GM to the point that in the face of the CAFE regulations theyre freezing all future Zeta spin-offs. It would probably be alot easier keeping Vectra FWD with AWD capability.

[clutch-monkey]

i guess the issue is most people don't even know what layout their drivetrain is, let alone have a preference for RWD.
that said it's sort of holden's 'thing' to have RWD cars, but the RWD econoboxes of yesteryear are all FWD now

[fpv_gtho]

that said it's sort of holden's 'thing' to have RWD cars

Holden as an engineering centre are RWD, but only on account of thats all theyve ever done for themselves. As a brand and a showroom theyre far from it. Commodore could be FWD and conservatively styled and wouldnt stand out from the rest of their range. They probably stand out more right now being a RWD sports biased sedan.

[Ferrer]

I cant see Vectra moving to RWD. Trying to shift existing FWD cars back to RWD like Impala has been hurting GM to the point that in the face of the CAFE regulations theyre freezing all future Zeta spin-offs. It would probably be alot easier keeping Vectra FWD with AWD capability.
But that's not a problem of the layout. If GM fitted good economical engines to its Zeta offerings they could turn up good fuel economy. Downsizing could also help.

But mostly I agree woth you, front drive family car aren't going to return to rear drive any time soon. :(

[SlickHolden]

JD
where did you here about the downsizing is it for real??.. Moving back to the old days when the VB-VH were mid size but offered as family large cars.
I still say the VB was a good size of a car to have, I was always pretty comfy in it, And 2 big lumps in the back seat fit just ok, 3 was pushing it.

[fpv_gtho]

But that's not a problem of the layout. If GM fitted good economical engines to its Zeta offerings they could turn up good fuel economy. Downsizing could also help.

But mostly I agree woth you, front drive family car aren't going to return to rear drive any time soon. :(

RWD can definately be done economically, especially with alternative fuels like diesel or even going hybrid. I dont think GM have the provisions in place to tackle the economy targets bit by bit, perhaps as Ford plan on doing with their Ecoboost engines.


JD
where did you here about the downsizing is it for real??.. Moving back to the old days when the VB-VH were mid size but offered as family large cars.
I still say the VB was a good size of a car to have, I was always pretty comfy in it, And 2 big lumps in the back seat fit just ok, 3 was pushing it.

Well its just rumours coming from FAF.com, so take of that what you will. The consensus seems to be Zeta cant be narrowed for what Holden REALLY need, the platform was what GM needed for cars like GTO, Impala and Camaro. I dont think they'd go back to VB-VL size. Probably something like VZ wheelbase with smaller overhangs. It remains to be seen what happens, but most talk is it'll be done for the 2012 reskin.

[2ndclasscitizen]

I think Holden could be on to a definite winner if they shrank the Commodore to the dimensions of the TTV6 concept. They could keep RWD but use smaller 4 bangers and a low-3 litre V6.

[SlickHolden]

Well its just rumours coming from FAF.com, so take of that what you will. The consensus seems to be Zeta cant be narrowed for what Holden REALLY need, the platform was what GM needed for cars like GTO, Impala and Camaro. I dont think they'd go back to VB-VL size. Probably something like VZ wheelbase with smaller overhangs. It remains to be seen what happens, but most talk is it'll be done for the 2012 reskin.
Sounds weird, VE and VZ almost share same size interiia now.
And just when they got the perfect set-up track road they go and change it?.

Holden should have been well into the platform for the VE back in 1997, Then GM comes along as they always do to fluff up the situation with arciticture that is very flexible already, If holden go to FWD Commodores and drop V8's, My word vocabulary will scrap Holden And GM for ever.

They need to be careful with what they build next, I don't mind a downsize but thinking Torana size might be just to little as a family car..

4700mm Long 1800mm wide 470 litre boot and work from there. Just don't go to far back with the wheelbase.. 2800mm min..

[SlickHolden]

I think Holden could be on to a definite winner if they shrank the Commodore to the dimensions of the TTV6 concept. They could keep RWD but use smaller 4 bangers and a low-3 litre V6.
Go the Coupe-60:D

[2ndclasscitizen]

Which is built off Zeta, and not that small?

[creature01]

I'm not voting, never seen a holden in my life

you most likely would have seen a holden, you just don't know it cos it's been rebadged as a pontiac, vauxhall or opel. the latest gto is a holden monaro and the g8 is a commodore.

[clutch-monkey]

the G8 didn't exist when he made that post.

[SlickHolden]

He might have been run over by one:D.

[Falcon500]

you most likely would have seen a holden, you just don't know it cos it's been rebadged as a pontiac, vauxhall or opel. the latest gto is a holden monaro and the g8 is a commodore.

....you revived a dead thread to respond to somthing someone said in 04 with inaccurate info.

Please have somthing a little more important to say when reviving a threat please.

[SlickHolden]

What has happen to old threads being deleted?.

[Falcon500]

What has happen to old threads being deleted?.

Your thinking of locked? alot of threads are intresting and it would be a shame to loose some of them.

[SlickHolden]

I never go back i might crash looking backwards... Good quote from Barry Sheen, Stop looking where you been, And look where your going:).