Please Explain

[Luciferous]

As the Pauline Hanson quote suggest, I'm in need of someone explaining a bit of a saga to me.
As a lot of you know (and loathe) the 427 Monaros won 1st and 2nd place in Bathurst a bit back, but I was thinking about it and I was wondering about something, and hoped you guys can clear some issues up for me.

For a car to enter Bathurst it must have a roadgoing equivalent, as is my understanding, and the 427 Monaros obviously did not, which was not helped by the fact most of the stats about it were classed under 'unknown'. But (correct me if I'm wrong with my timeline) if I'm right, this'd be near the time the 427C was in homogulation for the market.
So assuming I'm right so far, could the 427 Monaro's win be a publicity stunt for the 427C road cars? It works if you think about it (and once again assume my timeline is right), if the 427C actually ran to schedule (which it didn't) and it ran thinly disguised Monaros in Bathurst on to win, it would be the perfect publicity for when the car came out for the road. This also shows where the 427 Monaro's had a lot of 'unknown' stats and stuff, as did the 427C.
Also, when you take into account how the 427C program ran over schedule (and eventually died) because of rich bastard customers who always wanted things their way, the timeline is stretched near the point of fitting (in my vague recollections). Now, you can say that 'Well the 437C was a HSV product and so why wasn't it put under a HSV flag?' Wrong, the 427C was developed in conjunction with HRT and so Holden had a lot more to do with the bodyshell after it left the Elizabeth plant.

So in my conspiracy theory for the week, could Holden have convinced the race officials to let the 427 Munro's race because they were garunteed a road version in a very short time after? It makes sense to me, so maybe the benefit of the doubt could be granted in this instance?

Also why the hell would you stick '427' so flamboyantly on the front of both cars when you were so obviously breaking the rules? Think about it and lemme know any points I didn't take into consideration making me wrong.

If any of these points are along the lines of "Because Holdens suck", you're a goddamn idiot, get off my thread.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah i think youve hit the nail on the head right there. as far as i know, the 427's (which were only prototype racers) were allowed under the pretense there was a road car being developed, and Holden i believe shelled out a fair sum of money to PROCAR to allow it. PROCAR's now dead and the 24hr race was called off this year from a lack of sponsorship i think it was, and i think GRM gave up on the Monaro's so i suppose its not such an issue anymore. Now HSV has their attention payed to the GTS-R which they outwright said, "NO ROAD GOING VERSION IS GOING TO BE MADE"

[Blue Supra]

which honestly sucks cause it looks like such a nice car:p

[fpv_gtho]

yeah its not bad to say the least, it'd be interesting to see what happens to the final product, whether such things as carbon fibre lips are put around the bumpers or anything, the concept looked fairly sedate for a race car

[Luciferous]

Well thats handy to know, because when I think about it further, its not as if HSV could come out and say "Look it was the stupid customers' fault that the 427C didn't make it into production, because I'm willing to bet that blaming the customers is a Golden No-No in the car industry. Which would also explain why the death of the supercar led to HSV taking all the blame lightly and covering its ass with blanket statements like "We did our numbers and our numbers were wrong". Like hell they were, the numbers were drawn out to be wrong because HSV gave into customer pressure and the project blew out of budget.

[Blue Supra]

yeh it was pretty much a stripped out GTS with a cage in it wasnt it? with 335kw under the bonnet:D ooo yeh!

[Luciferous]

yeh it was pretty much a stripped out GTS with a cage in it wasnt it? with 335kw under the bonnet:D ooo yeh!

You're talking about the GTS-R, it is a cert for production, but if you remember back I told you the GTS-R isn't road legal, its a proper race car. So no road going car will be produced, if you get it. HSV would be determined not to have a repeat of the 427C fiasco.

I liked the 427C better myself, looked like a bit of a sleeper, and 420kw speaks for itself.

[fpv_gtho]

420kw was still just a figure tossed around, any road going one wouldve been lucky to crack 400kw and a race one couldve had up to 480kw

[Blue Supra]

soooo much power, thats completely useless in real road conditions anyways 400kw+ just cant be used to its full potential on the road.

[fpv_gtho]

yeah, and it'd probably on the race version go without traction control and ABS, so you gotta wonder would they put them on the road car? with so much power, its kinda a death trap NOT doing it.......

then of course theres the gearing, they'd be made to top out around 300

[Luciferous]

Yes sirry, its all so politically incorrect and thats why I loved her....

[fpv_gtho]

uhh.....what?

[Luciferous]

I was referring to the 427C being a supercar but still having a whole lot of muscle car characteristics

[Blue Supra]

how so? it was a prototype...

[Luciferous]

A prototype that was a dead cert for production. It was supercar performance in a muscle car body, uniquely Australian

[SlickHolden]

They say in the U.S that no car can be faster then the Vette it's a GM law thats not on paper. What's to say the death of the 427 didnt come from high above???

[fpv_gtho]

well the new C6 Z06 is going to be like 500hp/370kw, and like a week before they cancelled the 427C they were saying the production version was going to be about 350kw......

but then again slick, HSV were responsible for it 427C and they dont have the relationship with Holden/GM like Ford and FPV do. HSV used to be completely owned by TWR

[Blue Supra]

They say in the U.S that no car can be faster then the Vette it's a GM law thats not on paper. What's to say the death of the 427 didnt come from high above???

Good conspiracy theory but i dont think its accurate... i think they just stuffed it up.., plain and simple:p

[fpv_gtho]

they wanted about 40 track cars to 10 road cars, they got it the wrong way around which blew out the development budget, that was basically it

[charged]

I think hsv want the gts-r to be a one make series for people who by the car,and theres also talk about a one make series in Malaysia

[fpv_gtho]

yeah that seems to be the deal, although what media coverage it'll get i dont know. i wouldnt see the point in racing a $150-$200K HSV with no media coverage when a $60K BRute will get more

[charged]

Probably as asuppourt race for the v8 supercars like the elise series,but instead of leasing it you buy it first

[Blue Supra]

sounds sweet to me... we could enter a UCP car... Wouter got any spare change???:D

[fpv_gtho]

yeah what would the livery be, the colours of the forum pages? :p

[Blue Supra]

yeh with a big pic of a mini on the bonnet:D

[fpv_gtho]

i tink i'd rather this other pic that i saw on a new mini once :p

but yeah you know how the car in the UCP banner is usually different, i think ive even seen it as a Mini a fair few times :p

[Luciferous]

they wanted about 40 track cars to 10 road cars, they got it the wrong way around which blew out the development budget, that was basically it

The word about the 427C was that the people who put down deposits demanded track time with the car, and as I would naturally imagine these people would have some sway on HSV, the company bowed to pressure and costs blew out because of it, HSV got cold feet and killed the project before it became a $300,000 car that didn't have the credentials of a $300,000 car. If you remember around 200k was the target price bracket and for that performance, it would look like a very tasty proposition indeed, which would make customers less inclined to badge-snobbery. However, if HSV had gone and made it $300,000 like they said they should have, then the car would be up against some very stiff competition with no real sort of credentials (as in a Holden up against a Porsche?). So that left HSV with the option of killing the project or making a 'loss leader', if you will. We all know the choice HSV made.

[SlickHolden]

well the new C6 Z06 is going to be like 500hp/370kw, and like a week before they cancelled the 427C they were saying the production version was going to be about 350kw......

but then again slick, HSV were responsible for it 427C and they dont have the relationship with Holden/GM like Ford and FPV do. HSV used to be completely owned by TWR
Does Skaife own HSV now?

[Luciferous]

No he owns HRT I think. I have no idea who owns HSV...

[SlickHolden]

Same with me HSV is a msytery, But i only know one thing, They didnt want Holden to own it cause they new GM would take it, Rumour was Holden did something that almost got GM to take ownership of it, But Holden and HSV havent said a word?
I sound like a tosser cause i cant think or remember what it was just little parts.

[Blue Supra]

nah you dont, it happens to me all the time...:rolleyes:
as far as i can find out... TVR own HSV:eek:
http://www.fordforums.com/t-7010.html

[2ndclasscitizen]

its a pity about the 427C A lot of the people who put down depsoits have said since that they wouldnt have minded paying more. Plus HSV didnt want to make more than 50 when there was 86 deposits. If they made 100 it woulda cost $200000. A carpoint news article Holden has said if HSV comes on the market, they'll buy it, but it didnt say who the current owner is since TWR went under

[Blue Supra]

screw $200000 on a holden...
you could buy a pretty nice supercar with 200k:)
OR A HOUSE!!!

[2ndclasscitizen]

the sort of person who spends $200000 on a holden probably has several $200000 houses and a $2million house

[Blue Supra]

the person who spends 200k on a holden is an idiot:p regardless of how much money they have:p

[SlickHolden]

I rekon anyone that spends 200k on a car is a idiot:p No offence to the ones that have but:p

[Blue Supra]

i dont think anyone on UCP has spent 200k on a car slick so i think youre pretty safe...:D

[SlickHolden]

<----- He breaths easy:D
I would spend $120,000 but most on upgrades:D

[Luciferous]

screw $200000 on a holden...
you could buy a pretty nice supercar with 200k:)
OR A HOUSE!!!

This may sound sad, but you can't. You can get a RS6 for 220k, a new M5 for around abouts 220k (Thats what they reckon anyway), a 6 series coupe will set you back 203k, an XKR costs 209k, a Maser GT kicks in at 209k, a 911 Carrera (not the turbo) gets in at 195k.
The closest competitor for the 427C would probably be the Noble GTO-3R at 195k

[Blue Supra]

well you could get an apartment at least:p

[Luciferous]

Yeah you could, but I'd get the 427C. A lot of people don't realise how much some cars cost, like a 911 Turbo is 300+k

[SlickHolden]

NSX is $280,000 ???

[Luciferous]

245k, with an extra 10g's if you want a targa top

[SlickHolden]

Seen on 5th gear a chic host had a Golf 99 model maybe, They fitted a NOS bottle to it and it almost beat the NSX :p 70% almost got it

[Luciferous]

The NSX only puts out 206kw, it may have been classed as a supercar, but it still had to pay attention to Japan's power restriction laws...

[SlickHolden]

I think as they got above 120kph the NSX had the legs on the golf.

[fpv_gtho]

No he owns HRT I think. I have no idea who owns HSV...


i wouldnt be surprised if its simply his name on the contract but Holdens money.....


As for HSV, in 1988 it was 75/25 between TWR and Holden, then tom walkinshaw increased his sharehold to the full 100% i guess somewhere through the 90's, but none of that contributed to the companies failure......damned arrows F1 team

[Luciferous]

Yeah Skaife's just a figurehead basically

Yeah damn that team, TWR were cool they built the XJ220, I give them heaps of respect for that...

[fpv_gtho]

yeah i guess it woulda been through them Ian Callum found his way from HSV to Jag....

but even still, just being a figurehead he must have a lot more pressure put on him as it certainly made him suffer mid-last year

[Luciferous]

Was Ian Callum the one who designed the new generation of Aston Martins?

Well it certainly showed, I think the pressures of trying to run the team is the last thing he needs right now. It would be extremely frustrating to be in Skaifey's shoes right now...

[fpv_gtho]

well ive been told he employed a couple of others to do some of the more business associated jobs and such so that all he had to worry about was the lap times, but hes getting past his prime, hes gotta take everything he can get now otherwise he'll die back and be a B class driver with the occasional high point. i hate to say it, but i guess Brad Jones and Seton arent too far away from that either

[fpv_gtho]

i think he couldve been involved with Aston Martin, i get them and Jag mixed up a fair bit now.....either way, both part of PAG so the management would have its fair share of shifts

[Blue Supra]

i mustve mistyped...:o sorry guys...

[fpv_gtho]

where?????

[Luciferous]

By saying that TVR own HSV, instead of TWR...

Bit of a TVR fanboy are we Bluey? Or should I call you matek?

[fpv_gtho]

well its a simple mistake really

[Luciferous]

I was just referring to the dumbass comments made by matek on the Best Cars thread...

[fpv_gtho]

yeah well i highly doubt he'll be back to make a comeback

[Luciferous]

Yeah he last posted on the 'drawing cars' thread, once again ranting on about TVR.....

[fpv_gtho]

well someones being a bit of a fanboy, arent we :p

he'll be bak eventually, they always are :p gotta see the aftermath

[Luciferous]

Well I can say I'm looking forward to it.

PS Noice avatar there Bluey

[fpv_gtho]

well it could be fun, he could say something even worse :p

i reckon i woulda had fun this time had you guys not jumped at him first :p

[Blue Supra]

PS Noice avatar there Bluey

Cheers man, you should put one up;)

[Luciferous]

Yeah I should put one up I dunno what of, if I was gonna make a proper one, then I'd have to scan shit in, make it a GIF, it's all so complicated...

[Blue Supra]

go to
www.avatarity.com
thats where i got this little chap:D

[fpv_gtho]

do it the lazy way like i did......post any pics you want in it and ask if anyone can wack 'em together....

unless you want an animation like Bluey's, which yeah will be on his link :p

[Blue Supra]

i got someone to make my old supra one... maybe i should try using that PS thingy to make one myself...:rolleyes:

[fpv_gtho]

whats the PS thing?

[Blue Supra]

Photo Shop...;)

[fpv_gtho]

shoulda thought.....i was initially thinking of publisher for some reason :p

[Blue Supra]

Publisher Suite maybe?

[fpv_gtho]

nah....just the only thing i could think of with a P and S was publisher...but photoshop is the obvious one :p

[Blue Supra]

well it does have a P and an S in it:D

[fpv_gtho]

yeh that it does.....i suppose i'll know for next time :p

[Luciferous]

My problem is I know Photoshop like the back of my hand, but my computer is slow its way too frustrating to do anything with it. That and PS can't make animations...

[fpv_gtho]

the closest program i got to Photoshop is MS Paint, so i guess thats why i havent tried any yet, although my brothers done heaps of 2 door BA GT's

[SlickHolden]

I would love to make cars and color them but i'll be honest, I'm shit drawing and painting:p
But i got like 10 ideas in my head for every car to change to the way i like it:(

[fpv_gtho]

well i think with the right programming, you dont need a skilled hand, just gotta click in the right places and know the right functions

[Luciferous]

The thing about PS is that its so in depth, theres like 20 ways of doing one thing, so its all down to your style. I like to do everything manually and not rely on effects to do all hard work.

[SlickHolden]

Cause i can't draw, When i'm bored i get my book out and make cars,
Or sometimes i make a car company, I got like 10 books filled with cars:p

Got a name for it and all DMC :D

[Blue Supra]

yeh i used to draw a fair bit, i have a mate who back in the day would just draw... he could draw the most lifelike VR - VS Clubsports SS's modified or stock, id just sit there and watch him do it. it was amazing:)

[SlickHolden]

I must have been in the dunny when god gave skills like that out, Well i might have been having a number 2 when he was giving most things out :p

[Blue Supra]

LMAO,
*bluey opens slicks head, finds letter from God... IOU one Brain..."
:p

[SlickHolden]

And to working arm's :p

[Blue Supra]

whats wrong with your arms?

[SlickHolden]

They bent in the middle to much so straight out it's short which isnt good for a straight punch:(
But out to the side they are huge like 190cm left to right and i'm only about 179-181cm tall.

[Blue Supra]

yeh my arm span is pretty similar to my height... and thats sayin something.:D

[fpv_gtho]

They bent in the middle to much so straight out it's short which isnt good for a straight punch:(
But out to the side they are huge like 190cm left to right and i'm only about 179-181cm tall.

that sounds like my elbows, the almost bend backwards

[Luciferous]

Well luckily I must have been first in line when God gave out fine motor skills. Problem is that now I got a dodgy back (no I'm not Italian) from always hunching over a desk as a kid.

[fpv_gtho]

i think everyone falls victim to a bad back eventually...just a read pity i guess when you get guys in their mid 20's who are like that, one of my brothers friends is like that and its almost turned his life upside down

[Luciferous]

The problem is that your spine stops growing when your 15 I think, so if you don't pay attention and straighten your back while you can you're screwed.

[fpv_gtho]

Well im continually told by my mum to keep straightening my back, apparently its some gene i got off my dad that i hunch my shoulders forward

[Luciferous]

Well it can't be too bad. I did it too much, and now my chest is slighty convex rather than being concave. Now you know why they say to straighten your shoulders.

[fpv_gtho]

i can see why she's telling me to do it, i look a good 2 inches taller when i do it, its just not comfortable and i hardly ever do it......so its a bit annoying unless i EVERYDAY make a point of doing it and crap like that

[Luciferous]

I used to make myself try and seem smaller because I was usually a bit taller than everyone else, so it was easier to bring myself 'back down' to eye level than stand up straight.

[fpv_gtho]

i think ive had that problem before, i was always taller than everyone so rather than feel uncomfortable by looking down on them, i'd crouch down abit and hunch a bit, but now everyones growing up to my level so im staring at the ground alot for no good reason

[Luciferous]

Yeah you get that. In my case, everyone got taller but I kept going as well...

[fpv_gtho]

I dont think i have that much growing left anyway, i know my twin brothers over 6 foot already, but im still about 5'9

[Luciferous]

You will most probably get to over 6'. I kept growing all the way till I was about 18.

[fpv_gtho]

Well im kinda happy with how tall i am now, but at the same time i think being a bit taller would be nice as well..

[Luciferous]

6' is pretty much the best height. I'm 6'3" and sometimes I get a bit weird because I feel like I'm 'too tall' when with a girl, but it's not like I seek out short women anyway.

[charged]

Lucky barstard 6,3 im only 5,7 Im not even 6 foot in my wifes highest stelletos :(

[fpv_gtho]

well i think i'd rather be too tall than too short, i'd hate to be that Anthony Callea, shit hes shorter than Rove :p

[Luciferous]

Yeah you know your short when you seem tiny next to Andrew G. Look at it this way charged, TV Hosts are always short for some reason, so theres a possible career path...

[fpv_gtho]

Lucky barstard 6,3 im only 5,7 Im not even 6 foot in my wifes highest stelletos :(


my dad's 5"10 and he "looks" short, although hes still got a bit on me. kinda ironic that my dads uncle towers at around 6 and a half foot and his son, my dads cousin, is even taller..

[charged]

Yeah I hate it my 9 yr old daughter is up to my shoulder already,she will be patting me on the head as I walk her down the aisle on her wedding day,how so very,very sad :(

[Luciferous]

Oh well I guess its a self image thing. I don't think being short is necessarily bad or embarrassing, I just occasionally make it that way when someone gets a 'small man' mentality. I used to know some guy who was pretty short for his age, so when he got to the end of high school he got into bodybuilding. It was like he was compensationg for his height rather than accepting it, which only drew more attention to it.

[SlickHolden]

that sounds like my elbows, the almost bend backwards
:p sorry i ment not enough :o They are bent when straight :o

[fpv_gtho]

ahh well that makes a huge difference :p

[SlickHolden]

If i was a sri lankan bowler they be saying baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall:p

[fpv_gtho]

uhh.....so what has that got to do with it? :p

im not the biggest cricket fan BTW :p

[Luciferous]

Taking the piss outta Murali, the Sri Lankan bowler who "cannot bowl properly due to the natural curvature of his arm". I don't see why he's still playing if he can't bowl properly but hey, the ICC are a strange bunch.

[fpv_gtho]

ohhh....i think i saw something bout him a year or so ago.....was continually accused of "throwing" the ball

[Luciferous]

He was throwing it. But that's a bit of a big issue in the cricket world. One side says he's a class bowler and should be left alone. The other side says he chucks he ball and shouldn't be allowed to play no matter who he is.

[fpv_gtho]

i guess its tough considering its all based around a physical attribute that cant really be helped

[Luciferous]

The way I see it if his arm has always been like that then why is he playing cricket if he can't stick to the rules?

[fpv_gtho]

thats true, surely he wouldnt have gotten into anything professional with such a thing. do you think such a thing couldve changed over a course of time?

[Luciferous]

I don't know. He's a fast bowler so he bowls like 5x more than most other bowlers so it might have. But like I said its a really dividing topic in the cricket world and some people get pretty heated about it...

[fpv_gtho]

i knew there was a reason i never got into cricket :p

[SlickHolden]

Murali from what i herd had a accident when young and injured his arm, So that really isn't something he was born with, If your born with 4 fingers you wouldn't play AFL or NRL.
But i can't give Murali crap to much, Cause he is a Western Bulldogs Member so i like him:p He comes to games he has become a big fan of AFL.

[Luciferous]

That's a bit biased ain't it Slick? Besides, maybe he could do something to straighten out his arm, Daniel Chick had a section of his finger surgically removed so he could play footy better....

[fpv_gtho]

thats just like saying thought that if Mark Skaife done something stupid he should be exempt from it since HRT bring in more crowds, than say DJR

[Blue Supra]

6' is pretty much the best height. I'm 6'3" and sometimes I get a bit weird because I feel like I'm 'too tall' when with a girl, but it's not like I seek out short women anyway.

try being 6"6 with a girlfriend who's 5"4:p

[fpv_gtho]

shit 1"2 difference :p

[SlickHolden]

try being 6"6 with a girlfriend who's 5"4:p
You know thats not that bad at all:p

[SlickHolden]

That's a bit biased ain't it Slick? Besides, maybe he could do something to straighten out his arm, Daniel Chick had a section of his finger surgically removed so he could play footy better....
No body ever talked about scott wynds missing fingers. And he was a ruckman, And he won the Brownlow in 92 wiht missing fingers,
But i diont say he dont chuck i said i dont wanna give him to much shit cause he is a bulldog member, And i dont see why rules should be changed for one that's not fair:)

[Blue Supra]

You know thats not that bad at all:p

its funny, i get her to stand on things so i can kiss her without hurting my neck:D

[SlickHolden]

Bad things come into my mind when i think short girl tall guy:p

My mum makes me bend to give me a kiss but it's not that bad she's about 5.1.
But my auntie is like 4.2 she is bloody small my uncle is 5.7 they look funny :p

[Blue Supra]

1"5 in diff... :eek: ive seen a 6"9 guy with a 5"0 girl, that looked hella funny:D

[fpv_gtho]

i think with that much difference i'd be like slick, thinkin bout the wrong thing

[SlickHolden]

The cartoon pic's i have seen lol:p i might get a ban if i say them here:D

[Blue Supra]

LOL, yeh you mightnt want to mention that here slick...;)

[crisis]

HSV got cold feet and killed the project before it became a $300,000 car that didn't have the credentials of a $300,000 car.
Performance wise it "owned" all the other $300,000 cars performance wise. Not bad credentials.

[SlickHolden]

The HRT 427 would have been V8 supercar street legal:D

[Blue Supra]

Performance wise it "owned" all the other $300,000 cars performance wise. Not bad credentials.

can you see it fitting into the category though? Porsche.... Ferrari.... Lamboghini.... Holden....

it doesnt take a genius to figure out which one doesnt fit in.

[crisis]

can you see it fitting into the category though? Porsche.... Ferrari.... Lamboghini.... Holden....

it doesnt take a genius to figure out which one doesnt fit in.
Even better that it can compare with cars built by companies who spend millions on developement to produce ultimate sports cars (in larger more economical production runs) where Holden is a backwater subsidiary of an American multinational commodity provider.

[Blue Supra]

yeh, it really makes you think hey:rolleys::p

[fpv_gtho]

if the project successfully got off the ground, it couldve done a world of good for Holden fans, but as Bluey was saying before, theres massive snob appeal for trying to get someone to choose a Monaro over a 911 Turbo

[Luciferous]

The way to look at it is if its a $300,000 dollar car thats in 911 Turbo country. There are some reputations on the line. I suppose the word I was looking for was more 'cache' than 'credentials'. It sounds a bit dumb, but $200,000 is still relatively accessible for the public (I see enough 7 series around to prove it). $300,000 is a lot more removed, and so thats where the badge snobbery comes in big time.

[SlickHolden]

In straight line speed it owned it and many cars, They predictied sub 5 easy 0-100 and max speed well above 300Kph, It's going to stop fine with APRacing brakes, And it's tuned V8 style suspension was the only thing that not many knew about, they knew the speed was there but it's handling was it up to match the GT3 ??? Guess we will never know now.

[fpv_gtho]

its on road behaviour couldve suffered as well, whilst a 911 turbo is still very much hardedged, the 427 wouldve been more ofa match to the GT3 in the fact its a road-race car

[Blue Supra]

The 427 wouldnt/couldnt have beaten a 911T round a track, sure itd be faster in a straight line but its handling wouldnt have been up to the same level as a Porsche...

[fpv_gtho]

maybe, maybe not. it had the double wishbone front/5 link rear end straight out of a V8 Supercar, but its 1500kg weight wouldve gone against it for sure.

[Luciferous]

But it had around 420kw to solve the weight problem, plus the sheer amount of torque the engine would produce. The GT3 only pumps out 280kw, but has a 200 odd kg weight advantage. Add to this the GT3's engine isn't particular tourquey with only 385nm, it'd be an interesting comparison, but my money would be on the Holden. The chassis would have pretty good balance, but it wouldn't have anything on the Porsche, so I guess it would come down to the track. Holden should have sent a prototype to the Nubruring, dammit....

[fpv_gtho]

both the GT3 and turbo would have their powe band matched to their ratio's so the torque wouldnt be an issue. it seems even on the race track the holdens cant seem to hold as much corner speed as others so that'd be their big downpoint

[Matra et Alpine]

But it had around 420kw to solve the weight problem, .
Power only beats weight on the straight lines under acceleration.
Under braking and cornering weight is the BIGGEST disadvantage.

[charged]

Power only beats weight on the straight lines under acceleration.
Under braking and cornering weight is the BIGGEST disadvantage.Depend what track sometimes too much power is a disadvantage,they tend too flair up out of corners,big straights help equal the equation,but that depends on the track

[fpv_gtho]

I think more power's becoming the enemy of Eastern Creek lately, all the V8 Supercar guys were complaining about a lack of grip to no end and having to "ease" the cars through all the corners. most people said it was like driving in the rain

[SlickHolden]

Maybe they need to resurface it.

[Blue Supra]

or broom it before they run, we have guys that run out with brooms and sweep dirt off the track if anyone slides on and gets it on the track. holds us up a bit but makes it safer/easier.

[SlickHolden]

You got to think that the drags hurts the straight a little, And when they drive around it's like they are on ice skates somethimes.
When the rain come down it looked shinny slippy bad:)

[Blue Supra]

yeh thats true, when it started raining the people with slicks on their cars didnt run...

[SlickHolden]

I'll have to say i don't think it's a Holden track:p I don't think it has ever been good for a holden.

[Blue Supra]

i dont know:confused: i havent seen it and i honestly follow cricket more closely then the V8s:p

[SlickHolden]

Lets not talk about cricket mate:p
Bloody went to sleep we did felt sorry for the kiwis i think let them have a win:p

[Blue Supra]

yeh i was sooooo unbeleivably cut when i saw that! 2 bloody balls and we wouldve had em!:mad: lift your games Aussies!

[SlickHolden]

I think they only played on 2 cyl :(

[Blue Supra]

lol, you could put it that way:D 2 out of 12 maybe:(

[fpv_gtho]

Well i think resurfacing is definately on the cards for Eastern Creek, i think it was Barbagallo that for years has suffered the same problems, so when they resurfaced it this year the lap times tumbled about 2-3 seconds, people were overtaking left right and centre it was so good.....

believe it or not, Eastern Creek used to be one of the ones HRT claimed as their "own", before 2003 there was like a whole string of wins to Lowndes, Skaife, Bright and Todd Kelly all in the HRT cars.

[SlickHolden]

HRT is still strong there i think, But the rest need to catch up.

Maybe they should resurface every 5 years ? all of them:D

[fpv_gtho]

real strength on that first corner, thats for sure :p

i dont know what sort of a figure each 5 years would be, its been 5 years since they raced at symmons plains and theyve resurfaced about 75% of that...

[SlickHolden]

I like symonds plains, Before the straight thats a great turn there, The straight is good also big turn at full power:D

[charged]

Fair bit of passing takes place also

[fpv_gtho]

well the big straight a Symmons plains is like the big straight on my track from a low speed corner, i got 2 chicanes leading into hairpins so it should be good

i'll have to post it, i think i gotta change the format from bitmap to JPEG

[Blue Supra]

open paint and save as jpeg:) (if you didnt know already;))

i like to have straights but i love technical footwork parts as well, good to drift through and stuff:)

[SlickHolden]

I like straight with turn but if you got the balls hold it flat and hang on:D that kind of straight, Like the chase at bathurst that's the best turn in the world:D

[fpv_gtho]

usually i just open up this program i use for the scanner to switch file types, i didnt know Paint could do it :p

the chase though theyre going in there with the brakes hard on, trying not to lock them up. cameron mclean for the past 2 years has come through there and locked them up and spun

[SlickHolden]

I remember one year back years ago when brocky drove the mobil VP, He was chating on camera and went flat throught it and you could see his face change, He told them he did it but you could see it, He just had a face lift going throught there:p

[fpv_gtho]

back then i suppose the braking zones and everything wouldve been different, even between now and last year they can afford to brake later as theyre going a good 10km/h slower

[SlickHolden]

They said it was more bumpy there this year, Maybe it's time to resurface that part for 2005, Before someone gets hurt on the bumps.

[Blue Supra]

crashes are always exciting but it never pretty:( hopefully they do resurface it, our track gets resurfaced every 2 years.

[fpv_gtho]

the chase isnt somewhere you want to be spinning out, theyre hitting the brakes now at 290km/h afterall and i think Cameron McLeans crash this year was cause of the bumps, he managed to hit the brakes sorta mid air so when the car rested back on all 4, it just locked up

[Blue Supra]

thats not cool, scary enough spinning out at 80kph:eek: 290kph would be change of pants for sure:D

[fpv_gtho]

imagine how he felt having done it 2 years in a row now, first with Andy Priaulx in the #15 Kmart car and now in the #9 SBR car. this year i think he actually crashed into one of the team dynamik cars doing so

[Blue Supra]

team dynamik never have a chance anyways so he might as well hit them and do everyone else a favor:D

[fpv_gtho]

yeah maybe he had his own way of punishing them for that illegal woomera test :p

[Blue Supra]

what illegal woomera test?

[fpv_gtho]

did you hear they got caught with the transporter and cars all taped up and stuff on this abandoned airstrip near woomera?

[Blue Supra]

taped up? i dont understand :confused:

[fpv_gtho]

they put vinal all over any sponsorships and anything showing that it was the team dynamik cars. so it was basically just a pair of white VY commodore supercars and a big B double transporter, out in the middle of nowhere

[Blue Supra]

so why is that bad?

[fpv_gtho]

Illegal testing, AVESCO only allows 6 days of official testing for the V8's and it has to be at a nominated track. So what went wrong there was Team Dynamik didnt tell Avesco they were testing, and they were testing somewher they werent allowed.

they had the most BS excuse for it allthough

[Blue Supra]

private loan of the cars?:D

how the hell did they get caught all the way out there? did a refugee escape and dob on them?:p

[fpv_gtho]

maybe :p

wouldnt be surprised if one of the AVESCO guys saw them leaving their place in SA and followed them out there. theyve got video's of it and everything.

they were claiming "they were doing scientific tests for NASA to evaluate a new windscreen design that had serious environmental benefits"

ROFL!

[Blue Supra]

new windscreen design? and did NASA confirm this?

[crisis]

they were claiming "they were doing scientific tests for NASA to evaluate a new windscreen design that had serious environmental benefits"

ROFL!
I suppose it doesnt damage the air.

[Blue Supra]

how do you have an environmentally (such a hard word to type) winscreen? does it break down easily or somethign on impact:D

[fpv_gtho]

i dont think NASA's said anything about it, it was funny though cause there was this big press release about the appeal for it, and one journo stood up to ask Kees Weel a couple of questions, and of course hes asking him shit like "well if you werent there doing illegal testing, than what were you doing?" and Kees just sat there stuttering before he spat out that excuse

[charged]

private loan of the cars?:D

how the hell did they get caught all the way out there? did a refugee escape and dob on them?:pI think a ex employee was whistle blower

[fpv_gtho]

now Team Dynamik have taken it right up to the FIA in France to get their punishment overthrown, kinda pointless you would think

[charged]

Yeah they should just cop it sweet,they were well and truly caught with their hand in the lollie jar :D

[fpv_gtho]

i'd really laugh if the FIA just gives them a worse penalty, but i think since its only TD doing the appeal, not TEGA as well like last time which lead from the increase in $104K fine, to them supposedly starting in pitlane, 1 lap down at Adelaide and eastern Creek for the last round this year

[Blue Supra]

thatd be hilarious, whingin often just makes it worse:D

can they afford a 104k fine, theyre not the most "glamorous" team.

[fpv_gtho]

i dont know if it'd be coming out of Kees Weel's pocket or out of the team budget, but if i was one of the sponsors, i'd be against it coming from my sponsorship money for instance

[Blue Supra]

id be pulling my damn sponsorship!

give it to team Kiwi:D

[fpv_gtho]

i have to wonder if that happened as theyr naming rights have changed from team dynamik to dodo racing