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[quote=john14]Matra, I must agree, Honda are a great car manufacturer but... Overall, Honda cars are a bit boring. However, Honda has manufactured many interesting and beautiful cars, such as the Honda NSX and the Honda S2000. Also, some Honda's have great character and charm.[/quote]
Grab a Typre-R variant :)
We had a Civic Type-R on track last year.
He embarrassed SPORTS CARS costing 5 times more than him :D
THe suspension is well sorted out and the engine could really pull.
Yes, teh driver was good and the track's a twisty -- but the hairpin is one that often FWD's lose out on but it was so well blanced he could go into the apex on 3 wheels braking VERY late anda scrubbing speed.
The MAINSTREAM Honda is aimed at a person who WANTS reliability and sadly that generally means a person NOT Lookign for excitement and so the match of "borign" I'd asgree with.
Seen the new Civic in real life ? Saw my first today adn it IS a stunner adn looks just right !!! If they had the Typre-R now instead of the "sport" [EMAIL="I@d"]I'd[/EMAIL] likely go one as we're needing new "family car" :D
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[quote=henk4]of course but one of the charming aspects of a sportscar is that it has a very nice gearbox, which can turn the "just rolling along" into something more exciting.
(NB: I hardly rev over 2000 when accelarating, with max torque setting in at 1700 there is no need to.:) and 3000 rpm corresponds to 145 kph in top gear:) )[/quote]
:) Yeah when I drive diesels I am teh opposite of Slicks.
I always find I'm tryign to get it to rev and end up SLOWER.
It takes me a bit of self-dscispline for the first few miles to swithc modes and then get their quicker :D
Nobody going to comment on the Honda diesel ---- "hate something, love something" ?
Seeing the new Civic specs it only gets 5mpg better than the VTEC .... is it worth it ?
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Are you talking about the new shape Camaro Z28?
I, unfortunately, have had the dubious pleasure of driving one of those things around Donington. I had a rather frightening moment in the braking/turn in area for Coppice - for those who don't know Donington Coppice Corner has a steep up hill braking area and the turn in is more or less on the brow of the slope. As I turned in, nothing happened but as as the end of the slope kicked the rear suspension the front tyres gripped, the rear end tried to overtake me and nearly plowed into the outside barrier. Scary stuff. I took that corner in a Westfield XTR4 in the wet on semis and came in with cleaner underwear.
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I havent driven a Honda diesel yet - are they any good?
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]Nobody going to comment on the Honda diesel ---- "hate something, love something" ?
Seeing the new Civic specs it only gets 5mpg better than the VTEC .... is it worth it ?[/QUOTE]
I mentioned it in post 59:D .
Never driven one, good reputation though...
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]We've been around it 10 times ONLY because this is the first time you've actually described what you think it is.
PEAKY is NOT power until [B]high revs[/B].
WRONG.
Peaky is exactly what it describes where the power curve a very strong peak ( or even more peaks in a VERY highly tuned engine )
It all comes back from OLD DAYS when fueling , valve lift valve bounce and manifold pressures were not as well understood and the engines didnt' have ECUs. So you would find points when the engine was "off cam" ( ie the low end timing was off - the most usual ) or the fuel/air mixture was not right, or flow had a stall point.
So I could have a "peaky" engine that only revved to 5000 or an engine that had good power until harmonic on valve springing caused bounce, but get past it and you had another 1000 revs. These are all things we've dialled out in the main through better component materials, multi-valve, fuel injection and engine management units.
The main one was always being "off cam" when the timing meant it didn't sing until higher revs - a very common problem when tuning pushrods. So natural you'd ONLY see that, but that's not all that "peaky" means.
[/quote]
By "high revs" Im talking about [I]higher[/I] revs, like closer to redline opposed to closer to idle.
[quote]
Well it actually sounded like an underpowered engine frankly.
A common problem with cars designed for elsewhere and then made "emission friendly" for the US. Shame you use that problem as a reason for bad engine :([/quote]
Doesnt seem like a problem for most other manufacturers.
[quote]
That's exoected :(
It was nothing special.
IT didn't thave the pull of a Jaguar straight six and the handling was frightening.
Once it was up to 60mph it started to go light and the steering wander was terrifiying by the time it got out to 80. So much so you HAD to back off.
Looked good ( for it's day :) )[/QUOTE]
What year was this thing? What kind of condition was it in? Sounds like you were driving a 70s or a dud...
Even the 94 LT1 Z28 I drove felt planted to the ground at 80. At 120 my WS6 still feels glued to the road. No steering wander in either car. Sounds like yours needed an alignment fix bigtime.
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[quote=Slicks]Doesnt seem like a problem for most other manufacturers.[/quote]
But it was :D
See everybody else go to expericen the real capability of the car.
Driving the equivalent model in the us were aenemic - personally driven Japanese and European equivalents that were terrible in the US but good elsewhere !!!
British sports cars were destroyed by the required additions of poinltess bumpers and emissions restrictions :(
[quote]What year was this thing? What kind of condition was it in? Sounds like you were driving a 70s or a dud...[/quote]
Early 80s, can't remember the precise model :( Senility settign in :D
It was a rental. We took it back and the guy said that's the way they are and he didnt' see anything wrong adn pointed out we are nto supposed to break the speed limits :D Guys at the office "in the know" said that it was fine.
We clocked up about 6000 miles on it while we were there.
Thankfully I did less than 1000 of that !!
[quote]Even the 94 LT1 Z28 I drove felt planted to the ground at 80. At 120 my WS6 still feels glued to the road. No steering wander in either car. Sounds like yours needed an alignment fix bigtime.[/quote]
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
It's what you're used to, American cars ALL used to wander badly compared to the inputs we required for day to day driving. It's all the compliant suspension and the inevitable steering input that the suspension movement induces.
BUT I only introduced it to show the pointlessness of picking ONE EXAMPLE adn makgin inferences abotu the average :D
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In this respect the differences I found between the two Mercedes diesel engines for the European and the US market show that these practices are still ongoing....
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]
Early 80s, can't remember the precise model :( Senility settign in :D
It was a rental. We took it back and the guy said that's the way they are and he didnt' see anything wrong adn pointed out we are nto supposed to break the speed limits :D Guys at the office "in the know" said that it was fine.
We clocked up about 6000 miles on it while we were there.
Thankfully I did less than 1000 of that !!
[/quote]
Ahhh I see, thats the problem, an 80s rental Camaro, makes sense now. I drove an IROC Camaro once, that thing is pretty crappy, nothing like the 4th gen F-bodies.
Was it even a 305?
[quote]
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
It's what you're used to, American cars ALL used to wander badly compared to the inputs we required for day to day driving. It's all the compliant suspension and the inevitable steering input that the suspension movement induces.
BUT I only introduced it to show the pointlessness of picking ONE EXAMPLE adn makgin inferences abotu the average :D[/QUOTE]
Your too predictable :p
Did you forget, Ive driven more than just American cars.
BMWs, VW, and atleast one car from every Japanese company.
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[quote=Slicks]Did you forget, Ive driven more than just American cars.
BMWs, VW, and atleast one car from every Japanese company.[/quote]
ah but did you READ what I pointed out ( and henk reminded too ) ???
You are comparing damaged-goods :D
OLD OLD line on UCP where we've seen time and again that the product YOU GUYS GET is worse suspension settings, worse gearing and worse performance because it's modified to meet the US "market needs"
THAT is why what I wrote was predictable !!!!!!
But you still seem to insist on decrying others who have experienced the REAL cars using your (bad) experience as the benchmark :(
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[QUOTE=Matra et Alpine]ah but did you READ what I pointed out ( and henk reminded too ) ???
You are comparing damaged-goods :D
OLD OLD line on UCP where we've seen time and again that the product YOU GUYS GET is worse suspension settings, worse gearing and worse performance because it's modified to meet the US "market needs"
THAT is why what I wrote was predictable !!!!!!
But you still seem to insist on decrying others who have experienced the REAL cars using your (bad) experience as the benchmark :([/QUOTE]
Also waiting for you to bring that up. So all the cars we get have "American" steering and performance, even the performance versions right?
Its like talking to a brick wall that thinks its a comedian. :mad:
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[quote=Slicks]Also waiting for you to bring that up. So all the cars we get have "American" steering and performance, even the performance versions right?
Its like talking to a brick wall that thinks its a comedian. :mad:[/quote]
GO AND CHECK YOUR FACTS :D
Yes, "most" of the cars you get have setups different for yoru market :)
Of course real "performance" cars come adjsutable anyway, but I wasnt' includign those.
So you REALLY think that the Merc you get is exactly the same as ours ? or the Beemer ? or Jag ? Go read the manufacturers own press releases and you will READ them talking about "optimising" the car for the US market :D
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[QUOTE=sunk]Look, most of us are going to drive at 3000rpm-4000rpm on public roads. Whats the point of having a sports car that behaves like a normal econobox at that limit?
Woudn't you like to have some more 'juice' at that range?[/QUOTE]
at the expense of top end power ??
what u want sir is a truck, not a sports car
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[QUOTE=KnifeEdge_2K1]at the expense of top end power ??
what u want sir is a truck, not a sports car[/QUOTE]
tell that to the Audi people, who are now racing the R10:D
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slicks, just for the record, from the press release on the new E-Class
"
In the USA the E-Class in the guise of the E 320 CDI since 2004 is the first diesel model in the premium-class segment in the USA. From model year 2007 Mercedes-Benz intends to launch the first diesel production vehicle in the USA with the trailblazing BLUETEC technology, which will provide further remarkable reductions in nitrogen oxide emissions. The future E 320 BLUETEC will be the world’s cleanest diesel, using 20 to 40 percent less fuel than comparable petrol-engined vehicles. In Europe Mercedes-Benz plans to launch BLUETEC in a passenger car model by 2008."