Well the Mini is a good example of that and it seems to sell well in the US.
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Well the Mini is a good example of that and it seems to sell well in the US.
i suppose the golf does well too, and is not merely a fashion statement like the mini seems to become in certain places haha.
[quote=IBrake4Rainbows;885450]Why does it need to be a hatch.
The US market have voted, time & time again, against small hatchbacks (the Prius being a pious exception).
Given the opportunity, they will buy the sedan verson.
Different market conditions etc.[/quote]
Because Roentgen asked about hatches.
[quote=clutch-monkey;885451]I'm not arguing for or the 1 series, i'm asking if it's on sale as a hatch/how popular it is as a hatch as an indication of how well a premium hatchback will sell in America.[/quote]
Oh, my bad dawg. It's available as a coupé and as a cabriolet here.
We've had a lot of hatches over the years...until SUV's came along then the product mix began to change.
Currently we have the Mini, Saturn Astra and Golf....and probably a few meaningless cheapo hatches.
'From' is a difficult word as many bands are owned by multinational corporations that officially may base one place but are partially owned by all sorts of companies all over, not to mention the actual cars and even parts of often manufactured locally. Where cars are sold is probably a better descriptor.
Now, I won't go off on how the U.S. currently doesn't get the normal FORD focus version [IMG]http://www.allakhazam.com/shared/smilies/motz.gif[/IMG], but we do get some hot hatches. Honda Civic RS, Mazdaspeed 3 for instance.
[QUOTE=fisetdavid26;885462]Because Roentgen asked about hatches..[/QUOTE]
Because I am the law.
lol, I was just reading some of the arguments and I see Ferrer mentioned some hot hatches from Europe, and that got me thinking, "what hot hatches are made in NA?"
Anyway, my argument for this topic is that the NA car market is good for making classic/iconic cars, eg. Mustangs, Corvettes, etc. but they're no longer practical in today's world, especially with fuel crisis/economy. The iconic cars of Europe are much more realistic for today, eg. Mini, Fiat 500, etc.
Also hot hatches are more fun to drive, cheaper to buy, and cheaper to run than huge oversized SUVs.
And with that, I win. KTHXBAI.
[QUOTE=cmcpokey;885414]i think clutch has it right. Oz gets the good bits of everything, although with the steering wheel on the wrong side.[/QUOTE]
It could be a nice compromise. And they have some nice local cars.
[QUOTE=fisetdavid26;885447]Slo SS and SRT-4 aren't hatches, and your argument about the 1-series is wrong.
Keyword.[/QUOTE]
The SRT-4 is a hatchback, altough not exactly one you'd want. Not when you could choose the Megane RS, Leon Cupra, Focus RS...
You could also argue that the Caliber is a CIA experiment that went wrong...
Alright, I think I've worked this out.
The data is from 2004, but we'll use that for a rough estimate. GDP PPP per capita is measured in international $. To convert other currencies to intl. $ you must use the PPP. For 2004 we have this figures for the US, Canada and Spain.
US: 36.098,15 intl. $ (1,00)
Canada: 28.397,69 intl. $ (1,26)
Spain: 20.976,63 intl. $ (0,84)
A Mustang GT costs 27.995 US $ (the same in intl. $), 37.000 Canadian $ (46.620 intl $). An Abarth 500 costs 18.500€ in Spain (15.540 intl $).
On that basis, it takes 0,78 years for an American to buy a Mustang GT, 1,64 years for a Canadian to buy a Mustang GT and 0,74 years for a Spaniard to buy an Abarth 500 on average.
So in fact it's you who are getting ripped off. And you've got worse roads.
Roentgen is right. Europe has been relying on a small shit market to inch their way through since time memorial.
[quote=Kitdy;885405]At 18/hr, the average Canadian would make $2880 a month, for 4 weeks, 40 hours a week, which is 1830 Euros. Then again, that's blue collar versus average, we need both to be average. Minimum wage in Ontario is $8.75, so that'd work out to $1400 or 891 Euros a month.
What's minimum wage in Italy say?[/quote]
I think it's something like 6 or 7 € per hour.
[quote=Ferrer;885525]Alright, I think I've worked this out.
The data is from 2004, but we'll use that for a rough estimate. GDP PPP per capita is measured in international $. To convert other currencies to intl. $ you must use the PPP. For 2004 we have this figures for the US, Canada and Spain.
US: 36.098,15 intl. $ (1,00)
Canada: 28.397,69 intl. $ (1,26)
Spain: 20.976,63 intl. $ (0,84)
A Mustang GT costs 27.995 US $ (the same in intl. $), 37.000 Canadian $ (46.620 intl $). An Abarth 500 costs 18.500€ in Spain (15.540 intl $).
On that basis, it takes 0,78 years for an American to buy a Mustang GT, 1,64 years for a Canadian to buy a Mustang GT and 0,74 years for a Spaniard to buy an Abarth 500 on average.
So in fact it's you who are getting ripped off. And you've got worse roads.[/quote]
Sounds good...what's GDP PPP?!
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;885537]Sounds good...what's GDP PPP?![/quote]
Gross domestic product taking into account purchase power parity. Maybe this will help you:
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDP]Gross domestic product[/ame]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity]Purchasing power parity[/ame]
[quote=Ferrer;885542]Gross domestic product taking into account purchase power parity. Maybe this will help you:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GDP]Gross domestic product[/url]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity]Purchasing power parity[/url][/quote]
thanks, now it makes sense.
I would still go for the 500 SS, thanks.
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;885543]thanks, now it makes sense.
I would still go for the 500 SS, thanks.[/quote]
And it costs you less than an American or a Canadian a Mustang GT.
Well actually I'd have to do the numbers for Italy.
[quote=Ferrer;885544]And it costs you less than an American or a Canadian a Mustang GT.
Well actually I'd have to do the numbers for Italy.[/quote]
afaik life costs more in Italy than in Spain, but salaries are higher.
if that's correct, I would assume the situation is pretty similar.
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;885547]afaik life costs more in Italy than in Spain, but salaries are higher.
if that's correct, I would assume the situation is pretty similar.[/quote]
I thought I might as well do it. Same numbers as the other post (2004).
Italy: 23.175,02 intl $ (0,91)
The Abarth 500 in Italy also costs 18.500€. That's 16.835 intl $. And that means that an Italian should wait 0,73 years on average to buy it. So it's even better.
[quote=Ferrer;885525]So in fact it's you who are getting ripped off. And you've got worse roads.[/quote]
so its good to be in europe, good to be in the US. but we can all agree that canada sucks.
[quote=cmcpokey;885565]so its good to be in europe, good to be in the US. but we can all agree that canada sucks.[/quote]
Indeed. :)
Yep .
[quote=Ferrer;885567]Indeed. :)[/quote]
[quote=Rasmus;885568]Yep .[/quote]
sorry cameron, looks like you lose.
So can someone do the calculations for Australia? my mind hurts when I try to do them.
<pushes brain back in head from leaking ear>
[quote=IBrake4Rainbows;885576]So can someone do the calculations for Australia? my mind hurts when I try to do them.
<pushes brain back in head from leaking ear>[/quote]
What car do you want as a fun drive?
Lets go a Traditional Australian Car....Ford Focus XR5 Turbo.
Total Cost Au: $37,000
[quote=IBrake4Rainbows;885586]Lets go a Traditional Australian Car....Ford Focus XR5 Turbo.
Total Cost Au: $37,000[/quote]
Alright. Figures for Australia: 27.993,56 (1,39).
The Focus costs 37 grand, which is 51.430 intl $. So it takes an average Australian 1,84 years to be able to afford a go fast Ford.
I'm afraid it's not looking good... :(
I think the calculation should be done this way:
state an international amount of money, and see what you can buy in each area.
Then compare the car.
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;885594]I think the calculation should be done this way:
state an international amount of money, and see what you can buy in each area.
Then compare the car.[/quote]
That would be another way of doing it. Either that or compare cars that you could buy in all countries.
To be fair though, thats about an average price for a decent performance car in Australia, so we'll be happy to pay for it.
If only for our beautiful weather!
[quote=Ferrer;885595]That would be another way of doing it. Either that or compare cars that you could buy in all countries.[/quote]
Our Focus ST mk1 should do the job.
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;885597]Our Focus ST mk1 should do the job.[/quote]
It would be easier to choose a car that's currently on sale, if not finding the prices might be tricky. The BMW 335i for instance.
[quote=Ferrer;885601]Would be easier to choose a car that's currently, if not finding the prices might be tricky. The BMW 335i for instance.[/quote]
The "premium" factor could affect the actual price in different ways in each country though. Agree that older cars could be tricky to track.
Opel Astra? is it sold in Oz?
Also the Opel GT or Saturn SKy/Pontiac Solstice, whatever has the same motor.
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;885602]The "premium" factor could affect the actual price in different ways in each country though. Agree that older cars could be tricky to track.
Opel Astra? is it sold in Oz?
Also the Opel GT or Saturn SKy/Pontiac Solstice, whatever has the same motor.[/quote]
No Solstice/Sky/GT for RHD countries so that's Ozland out. The Astra might just do the trick though. I'm going to try and make the numbers.
I've picked the base trim level 5 door Astra with the 1.8 litre engine. The prices are as follows:
Spain: 18.510,00€
Italy: 19.650,00€
Australia: $22.290,00
US: $16.495,00
Canada: $18.390,00
Let's remind the macroeconomic figures for each country:
Spain: 20.976,63 intl. $ (0,84)
Italy: 23.175,02 intl $ (0,91)
Australia: 27.993,56 intl $ (1,39)
US: 36.098,15 intl. $ (1,00)
Canada: 28.397,69 intl. $ (1,26)
Now the price in intl. $ for each country (Tha'ts multiplying the price by the PPP).
Spain: 15.548,40 intl. $
Italy: 17.881,50 intl $
Australia: 30.983,10 intl $
US: 16.495,00 intl $
Canada: 23.171,40 intl $
And now the time it would take to buy the Astra, on average, in each country given the GDP per capita.
Spain: 0,74 years
Italy: 0,77 years
Australia: 1,11 years
US: 0,46 years
Canada: 0,82 years
As you can see thing have changed a bit, but not that much. The US gets the best deal by far, and Australia is last. Then Spain and Italy are very close together, but quite far from the US. And Canada is still fourth. With the worse driving roads ever. And bad weather. :)
Excellent job Albert.
Now we could even take into count other factors, such as, how much money Joe Average spends every moths to pay bills, health care, taxes, and other things which are "mandatory" but very different in each country.
At the end of such a calculation, it should came out who can spend more on his car and who has the larger part of his check gone into other costs.
Like saying, I could even get 3.000 € a month as a blue collar, but if then I have to pay more for water, electricity, food and other necessary goods, perhaps at the end of the day a blue collar living on Pluto and receiving 1.000 € a month has more money to spend the way he prefers every month after he payed all the bills&co.
[quote=Ferrer;885605]And Canada is still fourth. With the worse driving roads ever. And bad weather. :)[/quote]
I despise you.
I'd thought that GDP per capita is not as accurate as average wage so I think these calculations are off potentially. If we had the average wage of each country then did something with PPP we'd get much better results no?
And yes, our roads are pretty shitty but not as bad as Michigan's.
i like what Ferrer said. BUT, im mixed when it comes to cars. tuners, excotics and muscles. i like 'em. Ferrer has a point though. he wants Mustangs, i want Alfa's, SEAT's, Renualt's and so on and so forth.
those lucky Europeans...
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;885614]Excellent job Albert.
Now we could even take into count other factors, such as, how much money Joe Average spends every moths to pay bills, health care, taxes, and other things which are "mandatory" but very different in each country.
At the end of such a calculation, it should came out who can spend more on his car and who has the larger part of his check gone into other costs.
Like saying, I could even get 3.000 € a month as a blue collar, but if then I have to pay more for water, electricity, food and other necessary goods, perhaps at the end of the day a blue collar living on Pluto and receiving 1.000 € a month has more money to spend the way he prefers every month after he payed all the bills&co.[/quote]
This would make greater difference I think than comparing what has already been done with average wage. I'd love to see Denmark vs. the US in that aspect. Epic taxes
[quote=LeonOfTheDead;885614]Excellent job Albert.
Now we could even take into count other factors, such as, how much money Joe Average spends every moths to pay bills, health care, taxes, and other things which are "mandatory" but very different in each country.
At the end of such a calculation, it should came out who can spend more on his car and who has the larger part of his check gone into other costs.
Like saying, I could even get 3.000 € a month as a blue collar, but if then I have to pay more for water, electricity, food and other necessary goods, perhaps at the end of the day a blue collar living on Pluto and receiving 1.000 € a month has more money to spend the way he prefers every month after he payed all the bills&co.[/quote]
A quick whip-out of the ol' Human Geography texbook shows that (in 2005):
Americans spent more than 10% of their GDP on healthcare.
Canadians spent 8-10%
Italians spent 8-10%
Spaniards spent 6-8%
Aussies spent 8-10%
Most of the first world is in the 8-10% bracket.
As you can see, this means Americans have recognized universal healthcare as the evil communist-stalinist-leninist etc... conspiracy that it is, but it does take a good chunk of car money out of out pockets.
If you want any more countries just ask.
[quote=f6fhellcat13;885676]A quick whip-out of the ol' Human Geography texbook shows that (in 2005):
Americans spent more than 10% of their GDP on healthcare.
Canadians spent 8-10%
Italians spent 8-10%
Spaniards spent 6-8%
Aussies spent 8-10%
Most of the first world is in the 8-10% bracket.
As you can see, this means Americans have recognized universal healthcare as the evil communist-stalinist-leninist etc... conspiracy that it is, but it does take a good chunk of car money out of out pockets.
If you want any more countries just ask.[/quote]
Is that balanced out by higher tax percentiles in 'socialist countries' or is that already factored in according to gross income?
[quote=Rockefella;885677]Is that balanced out by higher tax percentiles in 'socialist countries' or is that already factored in according to gross income?[/quote]
I don't know, tbh. I don't think so though, because of the "gross" part. I think it is an unadjusted number, so giving it too much credence might not get you an accurate picture, but I think it is a good representation.
I know we have a good number of financial people on here, so they can tell you much more than I.
[quote=f6fhellcat13;885676]A quick whip-out of the ol' Human Geography texbook shows that (in 2005):
Americans spent more than 10% of their GDP on healthcare.
Canadians spent 8-10%
Italians spent 8-10%
Spaniards spent 6-8%
Aussies spent 8-10%
Most of the first world is in the 8-10% bracket.
As you can see, this means Americans have recognized universal healthcare as the evil communist-stalinist-leninist etc... conspiracy that it is, but it does take a good chunk of car money out of out pockets.
If you want any more countries just ask.[/quote]
Even so I'd say the difference is so big, that even with those factored in Americans would still probably have cheaper cars, or at least in line with Italy and Spain.
If you're from Canada or Australia, well bad luck then I guess.
[quote=Ferrer;885590]Alright. Figures for Australia: 27.993,56 (1,39).
The Focus costs 37 grand, which is 51.430 intl $. So it takes an average Australian 1,84 years to be able to afford a go fast Ford.
I'm afraid it's not looking good... :([/quote]
ouch. i guess that's the cost of buying cars from countries with a stronger currency
no wonder the local products give such relative bang for buck haha.